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Zealots threaten to ruin tomshardware.

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  • Intel
  • AMD
Last response: in CPUs
March 8, 2006 11:28:38 PM

The Conroe benchmarks have been released, and true it is from Intel herself so it is not an impartial test, still, this should be a great day for the geek world. Instead we are seeing a series of flame wars and childish bickering rise up. From 9-inch accusing Toms to being biased and mad mod weakly calling every enthusiast excited about the Conroe an Intel troll, to fanis making a lame comment about this being the funeral of AMD further escalating this flame fest. Honestly seeing this makes me sad. Intel is finally putting up a processor that can put up a fight with AMD. The majority of us are excited and discussing what ramifications the Conroe has for the computing world. Yet there are those who, acting likes the partisans that made the 2004 presidential election amongst the most dirty and pathetic in the history of the US, are ruining it for everyone else. So please fan boys, please do not ruin this for every one else, I am not an Intelliot or AMDriod. I went from wanting a Pentium D to an Athlon X2, to now waiting to see how AM2 will stack up against the Conroe. Yet, I will probably by call an Intel troll by the AMD fan boys; if I decide against the Conroe then the reverse will apply. Though I will say this; at this point in time the trash talking is mainly being done by AMD fans. I will say this. The Conroe is a good thing, whether or not it kills AMD, or merely competes, does not matter. The fact is that AMD and Intel will be able to battle it out. This could trigger a price war. Everyone, AMD fans, Intel fans, normal computer users will benefit from this. I close in saying, these are only computer chips, it is not like AMD and Intel are competing religions.

Dont let Toms be overrun by the zealots.

More about : zealots threaten ruin tomshardware

March 8, 2006 11:49:20 PM

Quote:
The Conroe benchmarks have been released, and true it is from Intel herself so it is not an impartial test, still, this should be a great day for the geek world. Instead we are seeing a series of flame wars and childish bickering rise up. From 9-inch accusing Toms to being biased and mad mod weakly calling every enthusiast excited about the Conroe an Intel troll, to fanis making a lame comment about this being the funeral of AMD further escalating this flame fest. Honestly seeing this makes me sad. Intel is finally putting up a processor that can put up a fight with AMD. The majority of us are excited and discussing what ramifications the Conroe has for the computing world. Yet there are those who, acting likes the partisans that made the 2004 presidential election amongst the most dirty and pathetic in the history of the US, are ruining it for everyone else. So please fan boys, please do not ruin this for every one else, I am not an Intelliot or AMDriod. I went from wanting a Pentium D to an Athlon X2, to now waiting to see how AM2 will stack up against the Conroe. Yet, I will probably by call an Intel troll by the AMD fan boys; if I decide against the Conroe then the reverse will apply. Though I will say this; at this point in time the trash talking is mainly being done by AMD fans. I will say this. The Conroe is a good thing, whether or not it kills AMD, or merely competes, does not matter. The fact is that AMD and Intel will be able to battle it out. This could trigger a price war. Everyone, AMD fans, Intel fans, normal computer users will benefit from this. I close in saying, these are only computer chips, it is not like AMD and Intel are competing religions.

Dont let Toms be overrun by the zealots.


And what would you call yourself for starting YET ANOTHER pointless flame thread?

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 8, 2006 11:54:00 PM

I drink to that
Related resources
March 8, 2006 11:56:30 PM

Quote:
The Conroe benchmarks have been released, and true it is from Intel herself so it is not an impartial test, still, this should be a great day for the geek world. Instead we are seeing a series of flame wars and childish bickering rise up. From 9-inch accusing Toms to being biased and mad mod weakly calling every enthusiast excited about the Conroe an Intel troll, to fanis making a lame comment about this being the funeral of AMD further escalating this flame fest. Honestly seeing this makes me sad. Intel is finally putting up a processor that can put up a fight with AMD. The majority of us are excited and discussing what ramifications the Conroe has for the computing world. Yet there are those who, acting likes the partisans that made the 2004 presidential election amongst the most dirty and pathetic in the history of the US, are ruining it for everyone else. So please fan boys, please do not ruin this for every one else, I am not an Intelliot or AMDriod. I went from wanting a Pentium D to an Athlon X2, to now waiting to see how AM2 will stack up against the Conroe. Yet, I will probably by call an Intel troll by the AMD fan boys; if I decide against the Conroe then the reverse will apply. Though I will say this; at this point in time the trash talking is mainly being done by AMD fans. I will say this. The Conroe is a good thing, whether or not it kills AMD, or merely competes, does not matter. The fact is that AMD and Intel will be able to battle it out. This could trigger a price war. Everyone, AMD fans, Intel fans, normal computer users will benefit from this. I close in saying, these are only computer chips, it is not like AMD and Intel are competing religions.

Dont let Toms be overrun by the zealots.


Further proof Conroe is a fake: http://voodoopc.blogspot.com/2006/03/if-only-they-had-t...

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 9, 2006 12:40:26 AM

Mad Mod, I am not attempting to start a flame thread. I just am sick of seeing every other post on this forum being a flame post. You yourself are very guilty of that from the moment you entered these forums. Let me tell you something. Right now I own a crappy 2400 dimension, I bought it before I was ever interested in computers, when I found out how it had no room for future improvements, and seeing all my friends with their cool computers I decided to learn about computer building. I have been on this forum for less than a year. I entered well after the dual core compitition, and I was getting excited to see this new one between AMD and Intel because I have never built a computer before, and I just want to ge the best chips for my dollar. Believe it or not, I went in wanting a Pentium, then seeing the benchmarks, I went to AMD, look up some of my old posts, and you will see me asking "How does the x2 3800 work with Epox boards?" For example. Now that the conroe is out, 9-inch has been convulsing spewing forth threads that are designed to start flame wars, yet you do not tell him to stop, you engage in the flames. Look at my posts, I have never tried to start a flame war, intentionally, once I did on the Nec posts, that was my bad. All I am asking is that people stop acting like this is life or death. It is a stupid computer chip. I singled you out because your behavior towards others has been callous and disappointing from someone who says that they build systems for other people and have worked for business.

"And what would you call yourself for starting YET ANOTHER pointless flame thread?"

If this is to be a pointless flame thread started by me, this is my first. You know better than to throw unwarranted crap around.
March 9, 2006 12:41:43 AM

Quote:
Mad Mod, I am not attempting to start a flame thread. I just am sick of seeing every other post on this forum being a flame post. You yourself are very guilty of that from the moment you entered these forums. Let me tell you something. Right now I own a crappy 2400 dimension, I bought it before I was ever interested in computers, when I found out how it had no room for future improvements, and seeing all my friends with their cool computers I decided to learn about computer building. I have been on this forum for less than a year. I entered well after the dual core compitition, and I was getting excited to see this new one between AMD and Intel because I have never built a computer before, and I just want to ge the best chips for my dollar. Believe it or not, I went in wanting a Pentium, then seeing the benchmarks, I went to AMD, look up some of my old posts, and you will see me asking "How does the x2 3800 work with Epox boards?" For example. Now that the conroe is out, 9-inch has been convulsing spewing forth threads that are designed to start flame wars, yet you do not tell him to stop, you engage in the flames. Look at my posts, I have never tried to start a flame war, intentionally, once I did on the Nec posts, that was my bad. All I am asking is that people stop acting like this is life or death. It is a stupid computer chip. I singled you out because your behavior towards others has been callous and disappointing from someone who says that they build systems for other people and have worked for business.

"And what would you call yourself for starting YET ANOTHER pointless flame thread?"

If this is to be a pointless flame thread started by me, this is my first. You know better than to throw unwarranted crap around.


I had no intention of flaming anybody, and especially not somebody innocent, but I have just proven that those were not faithful Benchmarks and I still get flamed, that is just BS. yea, I've being a troll now, because I'm getting even with the Intel Trolls who insulted me for over 6 hours and now they just got proved wrong.

http://voodoopc.blogspot.com/2006/03/if-only-they-had-t...

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 9, 2006 1:06:18 AM

Please Mike for the love of God stop posting that link. :D  Serisouly, I think we have all seen it like 50 times in the past two hours. :D 

Sorry, somebody had to say it.
March 9, 2006 2:43:34 AM

Look man, I been 'round here for a long, long time. This flame war will not ruin tomshardware and it certainly won't be the end of these forums. This is yet another chapter in the long, long battle of Intel/AMD fanboys. Complaining about it isn't going to do anything. Tis the nature of the beast... ever couple years AMD & Intel flip flop on performance. And when it happens all the fanboys from both sides come out from under their rocks and lose their minds.

So enough with the doomsayer comments and predictions. Just let these flame wars play out. If you don't like it then don't post and don't read the CPU forums for a couple weeks. Trust me, it'll all be over soon.

Notice I haven't been posting in CPU forum lately? Why do you think that is? ;-)

-mpjesse
March 9, 2006 3:10:26 AM

Quote:
Look man, I been 'round here for a long, long time. This flame war will not ruin tomshardware and it certainly won't be the end of these forums. This is yet another chapter in the long, long battle of Intel/AMD fanboys. Complaining about it isn't going to do anything. Tis the nature of the beast... ever couple years AMD & Intel flip flop on performance. And when it happens all the fanboys from both sides come out from under their rocks and lose their minds.

So enough with the doomsayer comments and predictions. Just let these flame wars play out. If you don't like it then don't post and don't read the CPU forums for a couple weeks. Trust me, it'll all be over soon.

Notice I haven't been posting in CPU forum lately? Why do you think that is? ;-)

-mpjesse





YES!

another intelligent post by the cyberhero.

yeah. it will die soon.

almost not worth reading for. :) 
March 9, 2006 4:29:05 AM

I don't see MadModMike as a fan boy, I do however see MadModMike as a seeker of the truth.

If Intel set up this test and purposely crippled the Amd processor then it's bad for Intel.

Can you imagine a company such as Intel with all the resources they have compared to Amd be beaten still after all this work they've done and who know's how many countless billions of $$ they spent on R&D, new fabs etc.

If they set the Amd up wrong because they didn't know any better, well that doesn't make them look a whole heck of alot better either.

I really don't know why Intel would come out with such a display anyway, why would they want to tell their competition what they have? It really makes no logical sense other than to get the forum boards come to life.

I like Amd and use Amd. But I went with Amd because cost wise I couldn't do any better. Intel would have cost me a couple $100 more for less performance.

If Intel wins fairly without cheating then I would certainly pronounce them the champ, but from what were seeing now... I think Intel may be in big trouble.

All us Amd Geeks want are fair tests. If you can beat us fairly then we grant you the crown, but if you cheat and we catch you.... MadModMike will make you pay dearly.... Rock on Mike. :twisted:
March 9, 2006 6:06:39 AM

Thank You, and well said!

Though I dont agree that the flame wars will kill THG. It been going on for years, and is why I stopped posting in the original THG forums years ago.

No one has any facts, positive or negative, until the retail product is on the shelves, and speculation (especially that which is personally hostile) is totaly pointless
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
March 9, 2006 6:31:05 AM

Yet another thread like this. It's just sad.
March 9, 2006 12:47:24 PM

Quote:
The Conroe benchmarks have been released, and true it is from Intel herself so it is not an impartial test, still, this should be a great day for the geek world. Instead we are seeing a series of flame wars and childish bickering rise up. From 9-inch accusing Toms to being biased and mad mod weakly calling every enthusiast excited about the Conroe an Intel troll, to fanis making a lame comment about this being the funeral of AMD further escalating this flame fest. Honestly seeing this makes me sad. Intel is finally putting up a processor that can put up a fight with AMD. The majority of us are excited and discussing what ramifications the Conroe has for the computing world. Yet there are those who, acting likes the partisans that made the 2004 presidential election amongst the most dirty and pathetic in the history of the US, are ruining it for everyone else. So please fan boys, please do not ruin this for every one else, I am not an Intelliot or AMDriod. I went from wanting a Pentium D to an Athlon X2, to now waiting to see how AM2 will stack up against the Conroe. Yet, I will probably by call an Intel troll by the AMD fan boys; if I decide against the Conroe then the reverse will apply. Though I will say this; at this point in time the trash talking is mainly being done by AMD fans. I will say this. The Conroe is a good thing, whether or not it kills AMD, or merely competes, does not matter. The fact is that AMD and Intel will be able to battle it out. This could trigger a price war. Everyone, AMD fans, Intel fans, normal computer users will benefit from this. I close in saying, these are only computer chips, it is not like AMD and Intel are competing religions.

Dont let Toms be overrun by the zealots.
*bringing out the big guns*
March 9, 2006 12:58:47 PM

Mike, from your dearest truest blogsite link... since you want us all to read it...

The Athlon64 is far from a bandwidth starved processor as it is. There are plenty of single-channel vs. dual-channel memory benchmarks out there. The only ones that show over a 10% performance increase are synthetics (worthless) and very memory intensive computational benchmarks. Most (real) benchmarks show less than 5%increase. Even DDR-333 vs. DDR-400 in single-channel mode shows only marginal gains (tested on my own single-channel S754 Athlon64) for 'real' programs (performance testing on my work).

So, we have a processor that isn't bandwidth limited on current memory technology (DDR) going to DDR2. The DDR2-800 memory has more bandwidth and probably equal or worse latency. After all, the entire AMD fanboi community laughed at Intel for going to DDR2 because of the increased latency. I predict at most a 10% increase in performance in general usage (not synthetics or linpack types) given by DDR2-800.

Other than that, the only technologies that AMD has announced have been F, G, H, and L revisions due out spread out over the next year. We know that DDR2 support is in those, and virtualization (no effect unless you are running virtual machines) and an increased HT speed. That increased HT speed is probably a part of the DDR2 support so is inclusive to those gains. The only other real information that we have is that the L stepping will have 2x the number of FPUs for an expected 50% increase in performance in FPU heavy code. This will help games but not nearly by 50% and these cores will probably be Opteron only anyway.

The fact is that AMD hasn't announced anything, even in combinations, that will add up to 30%+ performance increases for the desktop. I think we'll see 10%. I'll even give an outside 15% for the desktop parts.

Now, Conroe was tested using DDR2-667 and at 2.67GHz. All Conroe parts have a faster FSB than that so expect production systems to have faster memory (although I doubt this will give a big performance increase). The other thing to remember is that Conroe will release at 3GHz top speeds and there are strong rumors of a 3.33GHz part but not officially announced. Speculation that if things are as they seem, AMD had better be ready to release 3.6+GHz parts in July (when Conroe will be out) to stay ahead. But, the only official AMD announcement of speed bumps are to 2.8GHz.

Given that by the time AMD is releasing 65nm parts (and probably not many), Intel will be releasing 45nm parts which will give another speed bump.

I buy what makes sense. I have seven AMD machines right now (three Athlon64, one Athlon64x2, the rest Athlon XPs - and only two Intel machines and they are both Dell laptops) but I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade to Intel if they were better at the time I plan to buy. AMD had better have a rabbit in the hat that would have to be a very well kept secret (with all the leaks we have these days) and have a plan to compete or they will be a year behind very quickly.
March 9, 2006 2:11:56 PM

I am working on a plugin for Firefox that autoclicks Ignore on all his posts ;) 
Peace will be soon.
March 9, 2006 2:51:50 PM

Quote:
The Conroe benchmarks have been released, and true it is from Intel herself so it is not an impartial test, still, this should be a great day for the geek world. Instead we are seeing a series of flame wars and childish bickering rise up. From 9-inch accusing Toms to being biased and mad mod weakly calling every enthusiast excited about the Conroe an Intel troll, to fanis making a lame comment about this being the funeral of AMD further escalating this flame fest. Honestly seeing this makes me sad. Intel is finally putting up a processor that can put up a fight with AMD. The majority of us are excited and discussing what ramifications the Conroe has for the computing world. Yet there are those who, acting likes the partisans that made the 2004 presidential election amongst the most dirty and pathetic in the history of the US, are ruining it for everyone else. So please fan boys, please do not ruin this for every one else, I am not an Intelliot or AMDriod. I went from wanting a Pentium D to an Athlon X2, to now waiting to see how AM2 will stack up against the Conroe. Yet, I will probably by call an Intel troll by the AMD fan boys; if I decide against the Conroe then the reverse will apply. Though I will say this; at this point in time the trash talking is mainly being done by AMD fans. I will say this. The Conroe is a good thing, whether or not it kills AMD, or merely competes, does not matter. The fact is that AMD and Intel will be able to battle it out. This could trigger a price war. Everyone, AMD fans, Intel fans, normal computer users will benefit from this. I close in saying, these are only computer chips, it is not like AMD and Intel are competing religions.

Dont let Toms be overrun by the zealots.


I think it's more like a Ford/Chevy debate but that's just my view. I agree that a fast Conroe is best for the consumer. It will force AMD to squeeze every drop of performance out of the new AM2 to compete. Then Intel makes something faster, AMD makes something faster, etc.

It looks like this will be the cycle for the foreseeable future. Intel doesn't want AMD to have another 2-year dominance over them. They will fight back. The fact that both camps have fanboys indicates to me that both companies are making quality products worthy of a following. So fanboyism is not a bad thing in and of itself. Suppose everyone dropped Intel like a bad disease as soon as AMD started killing them. Then Intel would have died and the Conroe would never happen.

So fanboys are a good thing in that they keep the company alive long enough to mount a counter-attack. This keeps the battle going and I wind up with a powerful computer. Yay fanboys!

It's still way too early to tell, but it seems to me at this time that the Conroe and AM2 chips will be very close to each other. Great! Now it will be a bloody slugfest between the two companies to become the winner. The customer always wins these fights. So I'm pretty excited about the Conroe/AM2 battle that is gearing up.

TomsHardware will certainly keep us up to date with the latest stats. Who has the fastest computer this week? It all depends who wants it more.

It's also refreshing to hear that Intel was able to squeeze some extra juice out of its FSB architecture. Efficiency gains are great too. Can you imagine how much better it would be once they start using their own version of hypertransport, or whatever comes after that? So then AMD would be on the ropes and it will be up to them to develop some killer out-of-this-world new computer to compete with Intel.

If I'm a fanboy of anything, it's competition. Once AMD and Intel decide to form a partnership, the joy ride is over.
March 9, 2006 3:10:29 PM

Quote:
The Conroe is a good thing, whether or not it kills AMD, or merely competes, does not matter. The fact is that AMD and Intel will be able to battle it out. This could trigger a price war. Everyone, AMD fans, Intel fans, normal computer users will benefit from this. I close in saying, these are only computer chips, it is not like AMD and Intel are competing religions.

Dont let Toms be overrun by the zealots.


i totally agree, we should look at the positive component of this development, and stop being religiously fanatical.
MadModMike...yes that means you :!: :!:
and all your fellow Intel or AMD degenerates that kill yourselves over an industrial war that doesnt add a single nickel to your personal pocket. if you crash and burn today neither AMD nor INTEL give two F**ks.

i have just bought an AMD 4400x2 (coz ifelt it would offer some advantages over my current system) even though i havnt yet built the rig, if the conroe proves better as they say it is i can imagine that this is the one i will get next and sell my current rigs. For me there is no such thing as 100% loyalty to these processor producing pimps whether it be INTEL or AMD.

Chill out son.
March 9, 2006 3:17:29 PM

Quote:
Quote:


If I'm a fanboy of anything, it's competition. Once AMD and Intel decide to form a partnership, the joy ride is over.


Actually that's how this all got started, Intel licensed their tech to Amd many, many moons ago.

Then Intel decided they didn't like the idea no more so they changed sockets. Amd spun off copies of Intel chips and sold them dirt cheap and ended up losing money for countless years, spending much of their time as a laughing stock for intel because their cpu's at the time were very inferior to intel.

I'd have to dig out some history books to be sure, but I believe this was around the first pentium era or a little before that. Intel tried to sue Amd many times over them copying their chips and Intel went on to continually change sockets to throw Amd of the trail.

Amd is a very tough company to beat they know how to fight and have been able to stick around even though most of their company history they've lost money.

So Intel brought all this on themselves. :p 
March 9, 2006 4:10:33 PM

I'd say one thing...the Intel vs Amd war is good for technology, good for competition, but certainly bad for our wallets :) )))

I'll wait with my upgrade to see real life Conroe benchmarks. I'm sorry I don't trust tests of Intel done by Intel.. Same way I'd not trust AMD cpu results done by AMD.
And believing benchmarks done on a computer forum, on first presentation of product is like believing Gates that Vista will never freeze :D 

What I really want to see is true performance, done by some independent site, but that will prolly have to wait.

But coming to zealotry. The best way to deal with it is to ignore it :) . Most of the fanboys just make the fools of themselves. So let them I say :)