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Going from 6600GT to X850XT?

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March 9, 2006 1:47:41 PM

Hey guys,

I'm really starting to get interested in a new Video Card with these awesome price drops and increasing pressue on my 6600GT to keep pace.

I was searching Newegg and found the SAPPHIRE Radeon X850XT with 256MB of Memory for $154.00 after rebate 8O

This looks like an awesome deal, but just want to clear it with you guys :p 

- Is the X850XT better then the X1600XT (I believe it is).
- Is it considerably better then the 6600GT? (Mine only has 128MB of Memory)

Thanks.

More about : 6600gt x850xt

March 9, 2006 2:09:10 PM

The X850 is a shder model 2 part. You cannot have any of the eyecandy that the 6600 or the X1600 can produce. If you are purely looking at frame rates with low or nonexistant image quality for a twitch multiplayer game, by all means get one if you like. But let me point out that there is a REAL possibility of another AGP launch. If you are on PCI Express, you should upgrade to a better card as there are so many choices avaialble.
March 9, 2006 2:38:22 PM

Quote:
A) Is the X850XT better then the X1600XT (I believe it is).
B) Is it considerably better then the 6600GT? (Mine only has 128MB of Memory)
A) Yes it is, but not much. It still beats it in pretty much every game and resolution: Benchmarks

B) Depends on what you mean by "considerably". I think there no essential difference between the 6600GT and those three relatively equivalent cards: X1600XT, X850XT and 6800GS. Yes, of course, they will allow for better handling of AA, AF and HDR for 2006-2007 than the 6600GT. However, if all this eyecandy is not really your concern, it is safe to assume that the 6600GT with still do a good job with most games at plain 1024x768 for the year to come.

Realize that you are considering an upgrade from a 6xxx card to the equivalent of a better 6xxx, in geForce terms. If I were you and in the price range you seem to be looking at, I would wait until prices go down a bit (maybe 8 months) and buy something equivalent to the 7800GT, maybe the X1800XT, which are really next-generation GPUs that can make a big difference, a difference worth your money at least :wink:
Related resources
March 9, 2006 2:47:39 PM

low and non-existing image quality.....?!!?? man you`re really of the case.....you and video shiet do not mate.......x850xt has shader 2.0b ..shader 3.0 is very close to that..
by the way x1600 is too weak to hande shader 3.0 it cannot even handle shader 2.0.......properly
6600gt is ok but a toy comparing to x850xt
...conclusion
x850xt is the most powerfull shader 2.0b video cpu ever build...
if you don`t know the case stop giving wrong advices

here is the test:
x850xt against 7800GS
both performed almost the same fps (i`m talking about f.e.a.r same settings) i could even say that same scenes prefer x850xt......when sm3 enabled...7800 dropped like hell in performance .. and there were minimum differences in image quality, except in SS and same water reflections ..but it`s hard to notice expecialy when you don`t know where to look

DPolkowski...if you want to know what shader model means...bip me
March 9, 2006 2:58:22 PM

hold on .... i`m a little confused...where did you find x850xt for 154 bucks...tell me cause i`ll buy 10 of them and resell them for double ... there could be a little mistake in there......
March 9, 2006 3:16:46 PM

It's right here.

I would wait and see where prices go now that the new 7900 series is out. Your 6600GT will hold out a little longer. If you look at Cleeve's Short List, you'll notice he advises the same.

However, for a $155.00, the X850XT is the best card out of the three. The 256 bit memory interface alone should make it quite clear.
March 9, 2006 11:29:39 PM

It's just so confusing with all of the card prices falling so fast, but great for us :) 

I've been VERY Happy with the performance of my 6600GT in almost EVERY area. However I've noticed some performance issues in AA and I figure with all the new cards launching this month, may as well pick up a new one soon :) 

With all the great price drops, I'm sure I can pickup a solid card for $150 to $200.
March 10, 2006 12:01:32 AM

What Fanis said, ditto. The x850xt rocks, and is at a great price. Has been around $160.00 usd, stateside for past coup weeks, alot of times is oem/refurb, though. Was gonna get one 2 days ago, but got that x1800xt for 299.00, who could pass that up? tried to get another that evening and the buggers want 399 now :twisted:
a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2006 1:46:39 AM

Quote:
The X850 is a shder model 2 part. You cannot have any of the eyecandy that the 6600 or the X1600 can produce. If you are purely looking at frame rates with low or nonexistant image quality for a twitch multiplayer game, by all means get one if you like. But let me point out that there is a REAL possibility of another AGP launch. If you are on PCI Express, you should upgrade to a better card as there are so many choices avaialble.

You have got to be kidding?!?! "low or nonexistant image quality"? That's about the dumbest thing I have read this year. These kind of crappy noob replies tick me off. There is no better PCI-e card for under $200 than the one he linked to. Your first sentence is the only true part. Besides that, it was an absolute horrible bit of advice to give. The X850XT will provide for a better gaming experience by far over any 6600. The 6600GT is far to weak to give any sm3 eye candy benefit you speak of. Even if we are talking a 6800U (like I have) vs X850XT, the useable SM3 eye candy is not worth much in all but a couple games tops. So you'd rather he play with HDR and softshadows at 800x600 or lower with no FSAA on a 6600GT vs 1280x1024 4Xaa/16Xaf on the X850XT??? Get real.
March 10, 2006 2:11:49 AM

Darkfire, if u have an extra 150-160 to upgrade a card, that x850xt is what u should get, is really a nice step up from ur current card. It along with the pe verson, has a bigger hs and double bladed, not single, fan. It overclocks quite nice also. I dont think that the price on that is gonna drop much more, its the best bang for buck at moment. If u plannin on spendin a lil more like 200-300 range, i would suggest waitin a lil while to see what nvida/ati gonna do with some prices on mid-range cards.
March 10, 2006 8:17:14 PM

Well I won't ever spend more then $180 or $200 on a video card so I figure that the X850XT is the best deal right now in that arena at around $160.

OEM isn't a problem at all, and plus I've got a person interested in my 6600GT at about $50, so may bring my upgrade cost down to a minimal of $100 :) 
March 10, 2006 9:01:51 PM

Quote:
The X850 is a shder model 2 part. You cannot have any of the eyecandy that the 6600 or the X1600 can produce.


"You cannot have any of the eyecandy"?

Good lord, an X850 XT will handle TWICE the eyecandy when it comes to AA & AF.

Sure it has SM 2.0b, but the only place I've EVER seen a difference is when OpenEXR HDR is used... and even then, the X850 XT can do AA when the 6600 GT can't!

For $150, that's a HUGE IQ LEAP.
March 10, 2006 9:02:09 PM

The 7600GT is a better card and it is under $200 right now on newegg.

What's not to like?

The new X1800 is good too but it's not going to be out until the end of the month and is expected to sell for $249.


Here is a better newegg link:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=0&Submi...

5 different 7600GT cards are all under $200 and I would argue the 7600GT is a much better card than the 6600GT or X850


And here are some benchmarks to go with it:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/09/ati_and_nvidias_...

:-D
a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2006 10:16:18 PM

Quote:
5 different 7600GT cards are all under $200 and I would argue the 7600GT is a much better card than the 6600GT or X850

Seeing how the 7800GT often demolishes the 7600GT, I'd suspect in raw performance the X850XT would still beat out a 7600GT, at least in more games then it loses. I'm trying to base this on where the 7600GT falls compared to the 7800GT and 6800GS, which isn't an easy comparison.

In some(not many) games the X850XTpe can match the 7800GT, and the non-platinum isn't that far behind. Then factor in $40 saving for the X850XT, to me it's stilll a far better buy than a 7600GT. (for us Win XP folk anyway). Direct comparisons would be nice to see though. I'd like to see how the 7600GT compares to a 6800U and also the AGP 7800GS.

Edit: I still haven't seen a direct comparison. The 7600GT is a very nice edition to the under $200 club. This is the review I was thinking about. Seems the 7600GT is far closer to the 6800GS than to a 7800GT; so me thinks X850XT > 7600GT performance-wise.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2717&p=11
March 11, 2006 6:04:05 AM

yes is true my friends x850xt can crush even a 7800gt......that 7600gt is made for x1600xt and other midrange cards ...remember the pixel pipes and memory bandwidth...many people are tempted to compare cards after names, date of marketing or who knows what but is the wrong way....compare the cards after pixel pipes, memory bandwidth, memory address width, type of memory etc...........

so x850xt has 16pipes, 34.5Gbps, 256 wide address, DDR3 and so on
7600gt has 12 pixel pipes, 22,4Gbps, 128 wide address and DDR3

so my friends you can cleary see the differences x850xt is a high end card
7600gt is indeed intended to be a mid range card
7600gt is here for x1800gto


the only good thing for us ..the users ..is that the card, x850xt has been around for almost one year and the price is dropping rapidly......imagine what price would have 7600Gt or whatever in one year....remember what happened to x800gto whitch came.. what...3 months ago....x800gto disappeared my friends...only the top of the end remained x850xt or x850xtpe which is pretty much the same only a higher frequency and memory bandwidth

the conclusion my friends...you can buy a top of the end card for a mid range card price ...good luck
March 11, 2006 11:22:37 AM

but in this case people are comparing benchmarks, and since the 7600gt easily beats the 6800gs and has newer technology than the x850xt, that is why it is being sudgested, not because of a name or an assumption. you might want to do more research fainis, comparing cards just on specifications is the wrong way to discover performance
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2006 11:27:08 AM

Quote:
yes is true my friends x850xt can crush even a 7800gt
Not from what I have seen. The 7800GT easily wins most games. But for the price the X850XT is still quite a good buy.
a b U Graphics card
March 11, 2006 11:32:59 AM

Yeah true, there is no comparison. But to make me feel better, I'll point out that my 7800GT was only $255. :roll: The 7900GT and X1800XT 256MB rock for the price, but we are talking almost double the price of the card he is looking at buying. Maybe used 7800GT's will be plentiful and cheap in the weeks to come.

One things for sure. What little appeal a high end AGP like the 7800GS or X850XT had, was greatly diminished once again. Now the 7800GS is priced equal to a 7900GT and gets spanked even harder this round.
March 11, 2006 9:35:56 PM

Quote:
Hey guys,

I'm really starting to get interested in a new Video Card with these awesome price drops and increasing pressue on my 6600GT to keep pace.

I was searching Newegg and found the SAPPHIRE Radeon X850XT with 256MB of Memory for $154.00 after rebate

This looks like an awesome deal, but just want to clear it with you guys


Bottom line - it's a great deal.
March 12, 2006 1:21:27 AM

Quote:
lol, yea. But X850XT for like $160 is the best you can get for that price.


I have to agree with you guys, the X850XT seems to be a great deal.

I wonder how well the 7600GT performs against it however -- haven't seen any direct comparisons. It appears that the 7600GT is equal to or better than the X1800 -- dunno.

The recent benchmarks on THG were quite impressive and the card is quite reasonably priced at $189 so I would like to see some real world benchmarks to make a better assessment.

When I made my statement above I mentioned the 6600GT and X850 not the X850XT - methinks I got the X850XT confused with the X800 series.

If anyone has real world benchmarks I would love to see them.

Thanks!

Semper Fi Carry^H^H^H^H^H Linux on :D 
March 12, 2006 1:40:26 AM

Oh please; the 6600GT and X1600 won't run any games with Shader Model 3.0, and with Shader Model 2.0 the X850 XT will destroy them both.
March 12, 2006 1:43:36 AM

the 7600 GT kills the x1600xt or for that matter the x850xt with all the bells and whistles.

March 12, 2006 2:24:20 AM

Thanks very much :-D

After snooping around I found out the X850XT (8320) and X850XTPE (8640) have a theoretical pixel fill rate that is greater than the 7600GT (6720) and even the 7800GT (8000) however I haven't been able to find any game benches and the X850XT and X850XT PE takes up 2 slots, reportedly gets quite hot and consumes a lot of power.

X850XT 3DMark05 = 6068

I found these on newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

The SAPPHIRE makes me VERY nervous because they do not even list the core clock or the memory clock. The HiS seems a LOT nicer but is also more expensive.

The 7600GT ($189) and 7800GT ($249) are still competitive with lower temps and lower power consumption and only take 1 slot - although the ATI card seems to have more raw power.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...


I'll try to find some game benches to try to settle this.

Based on what I have seen so far I would not recommend the X850XT unless you have a GREAT PSU (ANTEC TPII 550 and up) and lots of air flow.
March 12, 2006 2:31:46 AM

the x850xt makes alot of heat as well, and doesn't support sm 3.0. Oblivion will come out soon and will use sm 3.0. i wouldn't recommend the x850xt as its slower than even the 7600 gt in 3dmark05.

the 7600 gt beats the x850xt even with only 12 pixel processor pipelines and 5 vertex engines.


http://www.vr-zone.com/index.php?i=3335&s=1
a c 105 U Graphics card
a b } Memory
March 12, 2006 2:43:50 AM

If all you have to spend is 150 bucks, save your money

If you have plans on playing games like cod2 and fear, and any of the newer games coming out this, and next year, save your money and by one of the newer top end cards.

The 850, will not play any of the games I listed, well, especially fear, and you won't be able to SEE all of what the games have to offer. Get something that supports shader model 3.0, and if you can wait til the end of the year, get one that will support directx 10.......... November and December these new cards will be cheaper.
March 12, 2006 2:46:00 AM

Quote:
the x850xt makes alot of heat as well, and doesn't support sm 3.0. Oblivion will come out soon and will use sm 3.0. i wouldn't recommend the x850xt as its slower than even the 7600 gt in 3dmark05.

the 7600 gt beats the x850xt even with only 12 pixel processor pipelines and 5 vertex engines.


http://www.vr-zone.com/index.php?i=3335&s=1



The is NO doubt in my mind the 7600GT, 7800GT and 7900GT are a MUCH better architecture.

The 7600GT does a lot more math per clock cycle with fewer pipelines and vertex engines.

So I would have to say the 7600GT is very attractive.
March 12, 2006 3:00:37 AM

Quote:
If all you have to spend is 150 bucks, save your money

If you have plans on playing games like cod2 and fear, and any of the newer games coming out this, and next year, save your money and by one of the newer top end cards.

The 850, will not play any of the games I listed, well, especially fear, and you won't be able to SEE all of what the games have to offer. Get something that supports shader model 3.0, and if you can wait til the end of the year, get one that will support directx 10.......... November and December these new cards will be cheaper.



If you need something RIGHT now the 7600GT is a decent card @ only $189.

In the next few months I would expect the 7800GT and 7900GT to drop in price quite a bit so if you can wait - by all means wait.

The 7800GT is a great card @ $280ish right now but you can get a nice 7900GT for about $299.

I'm sure the 7800GT and 7900GT will drop to $249 in the next few months maybe even down to $199.

X1900 is also a good card but the 7900 is on top most of the time.
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2006 3:18:00 AM

Quote:
the x850xt makes alot of heat as well, and doesn't support sm 3.0. Oblivion will come out soon and will use sm 3.0. i wouldn't recommend the x850xt as its slower than even the 7600 gt in 3dmark05.

the 7600 gt beats the x850xt even with only 12 pixel processor pipelines and 5 vertex engines.


http://www.vr-zone.com/index.php?i=3335&s=1


The X850XT isn't in your link. Got a link to back up the 3dmark05 victory? And what exactly does 3dmark05 have to do with actual gaming performance?
March 12, 2006 3:36:40 AM

Quote:
the x850xt makes alot of heat as well, and doesn't support sm 3.0. Oblivion will come out soon and will use sm 3.0. i wouldn't recommend the x850xt as its slower than even the 7600 gt in 3dmark05.

the 7600 gt beats the x850xt even with only 12 pixel processor pipelines and 5 vertex engines.


http://www.vr-zone.com/index.php?i=3335&s=1


The X850XT isn't in your link. Got a link to back up the 3dmark05 victory? And what exactly does 3dmark05 have to do with actual gaming performance?


I got my theoretical numbers here:

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2006q1/geforce-7600-7...

And got X850XT 3DMark05 = 6068 from a user on newegg with an HiS X850XT

Assuming that is correct and the reported 3DMark05 is @1024x768

Then:

the 7600GT gets 6215

the 7800GT gets 7209

the 7900GT gets 8184

Granted 3DMark05 != REAL WORLD PERFORMANCE

On PAPER:

X850XT = 8320 Mpixels/s / Mtexels/s

X850XTPE = 8640 Mpixels/s Mtexels/s

X1800XL = 8000 Mpixels/s Mtexels/s

7600GT = 4480 Mpixels/s 6720 Mtexels/s

7800GT = 6400 Mpixels/s 8000 Mtexels/s

7900 GT = 7200 Mpixels/s 10800 Mtexels/s

This is entirely theoretical however!

Notice how similar the X1800XL and X850XT are on Paper but observe:

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2006q1/geforce-7600-7...

And how the 7600GT MATCHES or BEATS the X1800XL in a few gaming benchmarks and loses by 0-10FPS on a few others on MAXIMUM SETTINGS!!!

Which is why I am still looking for a gaming benchmark.

However I have to reiterate the X850XT and X850XT PE has a few strikes against it:

2 Slot design

runs hot

consumes a lot of power

older design / architecture
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2006 4:31:07 AM

LOL, You surely can't compare 3dmark scores from a newegg review with ones from some newegg user. Some folks on there would claim their 6600GT plays every game at 12x10 max smooth as silk. :roll:

You can't even compare them between reviews as test systems, driver versions, settings, etc. can be different. You could easily have a 400-500 point difference as Digit-life got about 400 points less with a 7800GT and 6600GT compared to that link of his. And vr zone got 1200 more points with the X1800XT. The 512MB 7800GTX had a 800 point difference. So clearly the 6100 that the X850XT got at digitlife can't be directly compared to VR's charts. If VR zone had tested the X850XT, it may have scored 6900, or even 5900. Point is they didn't test it, so it is an extremely weak comparison and to me a reckless comment he made to claim the 7600GT is better and wins 3dmark05 and link to a chart without a X850XT in it. I have absolutely no problem if the 7600GT is better, but fact is we just don't know. My gut feeling is they will trade blows but the X850XT will edge it out in performance.

I am not arguing the 7600GT isn't any good. All I am saying is it's quite possible the X850XT is faster in most games for less money. Maybe not, but I'd like to see a review or 2 minimum before jumping to that conclusion. SM3 to me means little in cards of this caliber. I have a 6800U and a X800XTpe and the ATI is faster in more of the games I play, and the 6800U is too weak to actually game with HDr and softshadows on anyway. I'll take 1280x1024 4Xaa/16XAF anyday over 10x7 HDR no FSAA or 800x600 HDR & Softshadows and no FSAA. It's(SM3) a tie breaker feature in this caliber card for sure, but I wouldn't spend more money to get less everyday performance just to have an SM3 card. Does that make sense? Of course, with no direct comparisons, we don't know just how well the two compete anyway. You run Linux, so all this is moot for you as the 7600GT should be better.
March 12, 2006 4:58:32 AM

Quote:
LOL, You surely can't compare 3dmark scores from a newegg review with ones from some newegg user. Some folks on there would claim their 6600GT plays every game at 12x10 max smooth as silk. :roll:



:D  :D 

I am not arguing either - just trying to establish what's going on.

I KNOW that is why I divulged where I got that number so that people know it is not necessarily real!!!

3DMark is more like a synthetic CPU benchmark for GPUs so basically we should just IGNORE IT.

Besides BOTH ATI and nVidia were caught CHEATING -- we all know they optimize their drivers, etc for those benchmarks so they LOOK good.

I give a LOT more weight to the ACTUAL gaming benchmarks I cited and linked to above.

Those tests show the 7600GT is better in some games ( mostly OpenGL games where nVidia excels ).

The 7600GT is about equal in some games.

The X1800XL which is similar to the X850XT beats the 7600GT by 0-10FPS in some games ( mostly D3D games where ATI is equal or better )




Quote:

You can't even compare them between reviews as test systems, driver versions, settings, etc. can be different. You could easily have a 400-500 point difference as Digit-life got about 400 points less with a 7800GT and 6600GT compared to that link of his. And vr zone got 1200 more points with the X1800XT. The 512MB 7800GTX had a 800 point difference. So clearly the 6100 that the X850XT got at digitlife can't be directly compared to VR's charts. If VR zone had tested the X850XT, it may have scored 6900, or even 5900. Point is they didn't test it, so it is an extremely weak comparison and to me a reckless comment he made to claim the 7600GT is better and wins 3dmark05 and link to a chart without a X850XT in it. I have absolutely no problem if the 7600GT is better, but fact is we just don't know. My gut feeling is they will trade blows but the X850XT will edge it out in performance.

I am not arguing the 7600GT isn't any good. All I am saying is it's quite possible the X850XT is faster in most games for less money. Maybe not, but I'd like to see a review or 2 minimum before jumping to that conclusion. SM3 to me means little in cards of this caliber. I have a 6800U and a X800XTpe and the ATI is faster in more of the games I play, and the 6800U is too weak to actually game with HDr and softshadows on anyway. I'll take 1280x1024 4Xaa/16XAF anyday over 10x7 HDR no FSAA or 800x600 HDR & Softshadows and no FSAA. It's(SM3) a tie breaker feature in this caliber card for sure, but I wouldn't spend more money to get less everyday performance just to have an SM3 card. Does that make sense? Of course, with no direct comparisons, we don't know just how well the two compete anyway. You run Linux, so all this is moot for you as the 7600GT should be better.


You're right - we're both right :D  :D 

Yes you are absolutely correct, on Linux there is no comparison the nVidia cards and drivers simply work better.

The OP did not mention Linux tho.

Architecturally the nVidia is better since the 7600GT beats the X1800XL with fewer pipelines, with less heat, lower power consumption, a 128bit memory bus vs. a 256bit memory bus in the ATI and shader 3.0 vs shader 2.0??????? in the ATI ( ATI does not disclose whether or not they support shader 3.0 in the tech specs -- WTH is their problem ?????????????????? )


To be honest I'm quite upset @ both nVidia and ATI for not having better tech specs on their web pages - they should be disclosing everything including numbers etc.

ATI doesn't mention shader versions or anything and nVidia doesn't disclose everything but they do have SOME info.

I think they BOTH need to improve on that -- at the very least they should have at least 3 links on each product page:

0. MARKETING FUD - don't bother reading this ;-)

1. Tech specs for Jane/Joe Doe

2. REAL TECH SPECs for g33ks :D  :D 

PLEASE FORGIVE MY RANT

I mean c'mon g33ks need facts and figures and I don't want to have to go dig up what kind of shaders they use because I'm LAZY sometimes - OK??????

PLEASE FORGIVE MY RANT

:lol:  :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2006 1:05:28 PM

Yeah it was more the other guy claiming 3dmark and therefore card supremecy that got me annoyed enough to put a stop to it. I agree, games is what it's about. But even looking at the games, we still don't have enough to go by without a direct comparison. The fact that the 7600GT surpasses the X1800xl in Quake 4 means little comapared to Fear, COD2, BF2, Farcry, NFSMW, etc. Your same link shows the X1800XL beating the 7800GTX in Fear, but even so that doesn't mean the X850XT will beat the 7600GT in Fear, never mind other titles. The 7600GT in itself looks to be a very good performer and a welcome to the sub $200 arena. I don't like the 128-bit memory interface; but what can you do if they make up for it elsewhere and offer it at a good price. I think the X1800GTO will be able to outperform it but pricing may stay in the 7600GT's favor. But as far as this thread, I just want to see direct comparisons and not just your spec comparisons, or far worse his bogus 3dmark claims, before claiming which performs better, the X850XT or 7600GT. Spec wise, I agree the 7600GT is performing very well for a 12-pipe 128-bit card. But the aritechture doesn't impress me enough to buy it over a older 16-pipe 256 bit card if that same old card manages to outperform it for less money. Note, I say "IF".

Hey, just to make it clear. I'll be happy if the 7600GT comes out on top, and even happier if the X1800GTO prices drop forcing the 7600GT prices to drop. Most bang for my buck reguardless of brand. I'm not brand loyal, and have a 6800U, X800XTpe, AIW X800XT, and a 7800GT running on my home LAN. All were deals and the best I could do for the money at the time I purchased them. If I could have any card, it would be a X1900XT now, but I don't usually spend that kind of money on a single card. Surely there could be a 7600GT on there someday; but I need to part with some ageing AGP systems first, and it would have to offer the most for my budget at the time I'm buying.
March 12, 2006 1:25:01 PM

Quote:
the x850xt makes alot of heat as well, and doesn't support sm 3.0. Oblivion will come out soon and will use sm 3.0. i wouldn't recommend the x850xt as its slower than even the 7600 gt in 3dmark05.

the 7600 gt beats the x850xt even with only 12 pixel processor pipelines and 5 vertex engines.


http://www.vr-zone.com/index.php?i=3335&s=1


The X850XT isn't in your link. Got a link to back up the 3dmark05 victory? And what exactly does 3dmark05 have to do with actual gaming performance?
for all the nay sayers!! lol



even the old 7800 gt walks the dog.
March 12, 2006 1:32:59 PM

Quote:
Yeah it was more the other guy claiming 3dmark and therefore card supremecy that got me annoyed enough to put a stop to it. I agree, games is what it's about. But even looking at the games, we still don't have enough to go by without a direct comparison. The fact that the 7600GT surpasses the X1800xl in Quake 4 means little comapared to Fear, COD2, BF2, Farcry, NFSMW, etc. Your same link shows the X1800XL beating the 7800GTX in Fear, but even so that doesn't mean the X850XT will beat the 7600GT in Fear, never mind other titles. The 7600GT in itself looks to be a very good performer and a welcome to the sub $200 arena. I don't like the 128-bit memory interface; but what can you do if they make up for it elsewhere and offer it at a good price. I think the X1800GTO will be able to outperform it but pricing may stay in the 7600GT's favor. But as far as this thread, I just want to see direct comparisons and not just your spec comparisons, or far worse his bogus 3dmark claims, before claiming which performs better, the X850XT or 7600GT. Spec wise, I agree the 7600GT is performing very well for a 12-pipe 128-bit card. But the aritechture doesn't impress me enough to buy it over a older 16-pipe 256 bit card if that same old card manages to outperform it for less money. Note, I say "IF".

Hey, just to make it clear. I'll be happy if the 7600GT comes out on top, and even happier if the X1800GTO prices drop forcing the 7600GT prices to drop. Most bang for my buck reguardless of brand. I'm not brand loyal, and have a 6800U, X800XTpe, AIW X800XT, and a 7800GT running on my home LAN. All were deals and the best I could do for the money at the time I purchased them. If I could have any card, it would be a X1900XT now, but I don't usually spend that kind of money on a single card. Surely there could be a 7600GT on there someday; but I need to part with some ageing AGP systems first, and it would have to offer the most for my budget at the time I'm buying.



Indeed :-D

I agree!!!

I was speculating and guessing in the absence of solid game benchmarks.

I'll see if I can find a direct comparison -- the X1800XL was the closest to the X850XT I could get... so that's why I compared those two.

In theory the X850XT should perform marginally better than the X1800XL.

I have to say I was quite impressed by the 7600GT though.

A decent performer for it's price range.

The Shader 3.0 vs Shader 2.0b argument may in fact settle it, according to another thread I was reading here the X850XT does not support Shader 3.0 in fact it appears it is a Shader 2.0B part.

The 7600GT is as I pointed out earlier a Shader 3.0 card.

What are your thoughts on that?

I personally prefer nVidia because I use Linux and nVidia has better OpenGL support most of the time but I have nothing against ATI.

I agree the X1900XT is a great card and I also believe ATI cards look slightly better although that is subjective but I too would not normally spend that much on a card.
March 12, 2006 3:31:15 PM

With all the fuss about 7xxx cards for what i do a X1800XL is better than the 7800GT(don't even compare it to a 7600GT). There was a benchmark made on X3:The Reunion. Heck,the X1800XL beat the crap out of the 7800GT(not to mention that visually it looks better). And X3 is one game that came before of its time so we can expect future games to be the same(shader intensive).
I'm not saying X1800XL> 7800GT cause that's not the case in most games but comparing it to 7600GT is non sense.
X850XT acts about the same as a X1800XL if not better BUT it doesn't support newer technology. Still,it's the best bang for buck you'll ever find for that price.
a b U Graphics card
March 12, 2006 5:49:37 PM

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I was speculating and guessing in the absence of solid game benchmarks.
I've done the exact same thing. Wanting real benchies but trying to figure it out in the absense.

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I'll see if I can find a direct comparison -- the X1800XL was the closest to the X850XT I could get... so that's why I compared those two

In theory the X850XT should perform marginally better than the X1800XL..

No actually, the X1800XL is superior to the X850XT in stock performance, OC potential, and features.

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I have to say I was quite impressed by the 7600GT though.
A decent performer for it's price range.

For it's specs and suggested price, I am also very impressed. Street pricing will determine whether or not it would be a card I use/recommend. If 7800GT's drop to a close price, the 7600GT is a waste. If 7800GT's supply dry up and X1800GTO prices stay high, the 7600GT will be a valuable card.

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The Shader 3.0 vs Shader 2.0b argument may in fact settle it, according to another thread I was reading here the X850XT does not support Shader 3.0 in fact it appears it is a Shader 2.0B part.

The 7600GT is as I pointed out earlier a Shader 3.0 card.

What are your thoughts on that?

Indeed the X850XT is shader model 2.0b not SM3.0. My thoughts are the SM3.0 support is better of course, but how valuable it is depends on the power of the card. I see little to no value in SM3 for a GF6600. Honeslty, same with any GF6 series including my 6800U OC. Almost all the effects that can be rendered with SM3.0 can be done in SM2.0b. It depends on the game and codepath support of course. SM3.0 is the safer choice for sure. But, in the games that SM3 is needed, what cards have the power to render the effects without making too huge a sacrifice eleswhere. I mean obviously knowbody would want to disable FSAA and run 640x480 just to use HDR and softshadows. My 6800U gets hammered trying to run HDR and soft shadows to a point where I would never actually game using either. So what does SM3.0 really offer mewith that card? CHoice seeing a pretty slideshow, or disabling it. People make a big deal about SM3.0 support, but it's a check box feature with little real value for many cards in all but a couple games. What's better for Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, an SM3 6800U or a SM2.0b X850XT? The X850XT destroys it in playable settings and fps, so it would be better. But when the cards become powerful enough, say X7800GT and above. Then more and more Sm3.0 is the way to go. I'd never buy a $500 Sm2.0 card now if one existed. In this case, I think while NV wants people to belive Sm3.0 was a huge GF6 advantage, to me I more agree with ATI in that the game support wasn't there and the cards didn't have the power for it at that time. For GF7 and X1x00, Sm3.0 makes sense for sure.

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I personally prefer nVidia because I use Linux and nVidia has better OpenGL support most of the time but I have nothing against ATI.

And I would go with ATI if all things were equal, which is about impossible though. I use both equally as much in my own systems and builds, just depending on the budget and best card to fit it.

I am unfortunately not running a single Linux rig right now; hopefully this will change if I find the time/energy.

And it depends on your game choices. I own Doom 3 for benchmarking, but don't care to play ita t all. The demo was more than enough for me. I have Riddick but haven't taken the time to get into it yet. I have no desire to play Quake 4. So honestly, personally I don't put much value in OGL supremecy when buying for myself. It's up to the individual gamer what games/benchmarks hold the most weight for their buying decision. I like HL2, Farcry, NFSMW, NFSU2, COD2, & Fear, so personally those benchies hold alot of value for me. Plus trying to see what games are on the horizon.

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I agree the X1900XT is a great card and I also believe ATI cards look slightly better although that is subjective but I too would not normally spend that much on a card.

I want one, just don't need it and with a wife, kids, bills to pay and less & less gaming time, no way should I buy one. I spend most of my gaming time now playing small LAN games with my kids, their frineds, other family and a few of my friends (hense the desire for a few decent machines rahter than one killer machine). I also have my eye on the X1800XT and 7900GT; both more in my price range. If I had only one or two computers I would definately buy a X1900XT now. But i have many machines and can't afford nor want to spend that kind of money on a card. I've always liked to buy a card for my gamer and cycle the other cards down, getting rid of the slowest ones. But this PCI-e changeover and AGP roadblock hurt that upgrade route for me. I like to find $400-500 cards on sale for $300 and then jump on one before they are out of stock. I had no intention of buying a 6800U, but the X800XT was expensive, the platinun even more so, and I happened upon a BFG 6800U for $350 after $50 rebate, which was $40 cheaper than neweggs cheapest 6800GT at the time. For me it was a no brainer buy at the time. IQ, I give the nod to ATI also, but honesltly have nothing against either company. Neither is perfect, both are good, both have their issues and weakness, both want to make money and both don't care about me, so why should I sell out to either. ;) 

Man, there goes all my personal free time today. :tongue: :cry:  Have a good one.
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