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IBM and Hipro power supply - Is it a standard ATX?

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March 11, 2006 6:25:57 PM

IBM and Hipro power supply - Is it a standard ATX

I am working on an IBM workstation. The power suppply is a 185W Hipro. I am trying to figure out if it is a standard PSU. I would like to replace it with somthing larger as I think I am running the computer pretty close on available power. Looked at the calculators on the PSU FAQ post and it estimated me over my current PSU's rating .
http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

My first question:
Does IBM use proprietary connectors?

I hope to put a standard ATX PSU in this machine.


Further questions (assuming it is a standard ATX connector):

What are some good PSU options for this machine?

The computer is a IBM Netvista M42 8305
Specs:
2.53 GHZ P4 (Northwood)
768 DDR (PC2100)
Radeon 9550 (I added this)
then the usual HD, CD etc

It is running stable but I would like to add another HD, DVD burner (I have these available in another machine), possibly upgrade the video card in the future. I also have a PCI video card (Radeon 9250) that I may add to allow 2nd monitor to be used.


I was looking at NewEgg and saw a few that i thought may work well.
Does anyone have any comments on any of these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

One last question:
This computer is running a weather station and will be running 24/7 do larger power supplies draw more power when the system is running at idle?

Sorry for the lengthy post, i just realized that I know less about this subject than i thought i did.

Thanks for the help
March 11, 2006 8:06:17 PM

The IBM Netvista M42 8305 has a Micro ATX motherboard - so yes, it is an ATX and an ATX power supply will work fine with it.

BUT...

since that is a Micro ATX, you need to determine if that is a fully compliant Micro ATX case, or if that case just supports Micro ATX motherboards. The determining factor is the dimensions of the power supply mounting point in the case. Is that standard size?

According to IBM Netvista M42 8305 specs I have found, it supports 2 X 5.25inch and 2 X 3.5inch drive bays - that suggests to me a mid size case and I would guess a full ATX power supply.

At any rate, the connectors "should" be the same.

Quote:
My first question:
Does IBM use proprietary connectors?

I hope to put a standard ATX PSU in this machine.
Absolutely! As do all name brand makers. So make sure you can return the PS if it does not physically fit.
Quote:
do larger power supplies draw more power when the system is running at idle?
A little more at idle but not much compared to the CPU and video card.

The supplies you mention are not top performers but are worthy models from reputable makers.

BTW, when looking for new video card, you may want to look at a card that supports two monitors - I have a NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT with 256MB DDR and 2 DVI ports running two 17" LCDs monitors. Works great.
March 11, 2006 8:52:59 PM

Hey thanks lot.

I just checked, it is a micro ATX.
It looks very similar to this:
http://www.hipro.com.tw/product/matx.htm

From all appearances everything else is standard (20 pin connector) screw holes and size for a micro ATX power supply. With a drill :wink: (add some screw holes) i could easily fit a full sized ATX PSU . I would rather not do that though.

Any suggestions on a good micro-ATX PSU that gives me some breathing room on power?

According to power requirements estimates from http://www.extreme.outervision.com/url" target="_blank"> I am at 183W when running at 100%. I dont think I cant even get away with putting my sound card into this system.

BTW, you need script enabled for that calculator to work.
Related resources
March 12, 2006 2:12:47 AM

That link seems to be broken.
March 13, 2006 11:40:37 PM

Any thoughts on the quality of some of these Micro-ATX power supplies from newegg.com?

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FSP300-60GLS 300Watts:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

FSP Group (Fortron Source) FSP270-50SNV-R:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

COOLMAX CM-300 300W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

or this one at pricegrabber
Enermax EG285-SX-VB(G) 270W
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid...

Anybody have any reccomendations on micro-ATX PSU?

Really for what I am doing I dont need a huge PSU, though I need to make sure it is quality. BTW, I am a grad student so need to keep my costs down and dont have much time for games so I dont need 800W to power the latest nVIDIA card.

Thanks.
a c 158 ) Power supply
March 14, 2006 1:31:00 PM

That FSP 300W should be sufficient for your rig.
March 16, 2006 2:07:35 AM

The power supply you linked is a standard SFX unit. ATX is a power standard, not a form factor for power supplies, anyone saying otherwise is stupid or ignorant, it's OK to be ignorant but stupid irritates me. Not refering to you BTW.

Micro ATX isn't a power supply form factor either, Micro ATX cases use full-sized power supplies sometimes (the PS/2 form factor, the same size used back in the AT days), but more often uses SFX such as the one you showed. There are other small sizes besides SFX, so just take a good look at what you're buying to decide if it's what you need.
March 16, 2006 3:05:33 AM

Quote:
ATX is a power standard, not a form factor for power supplies, anyone saying otherwise is stupid or ignorant, it's OK to be ignorant but stupid irritates me.
Gee Crashman - then this statement sure must make you irritated at yourself because it was a stupid statement and ignorant. And for a staff member on this site supposedly here to help people, such statements are just not cool and uncalled for.

ATX is hardly JUST a power standard - it defines not only electrical standards but physical layout and dimensions for all ATX Form Factor motherboards, cases, I/O shields, risers, AND power supplies - including PS voltages, connector specs, screw placement, and even where to plug in the mouse - it certainly defines the "form factor" for ATX power supplies.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5Cspecs%5Catx2_2.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX
March 16, 2006 3:42:24 AM

I never said ATX wasn't a motherboard form factor, I said it's not a power supply form factor. It's not.

I didn't bother checking wikipedia as I've grown tired of correcting their information.

As for ATX case design guidelines, they often refer to the PS/2 form factor as the reference point, but PS/2 preceeds ATX.

The common form factors for power supplies are PS/2, PS/3, SFX, and TFX. There are a few others less common, plus proprietary form factors.

PS/2 and PS/3 in particular were available in both ATX and AT power standards, therefore it should be easy enough to say that the power supply form factor everyone refers to as "ATX"...isn't ATX if it doesn't have ATX power! Lest you stick an old AT form factor PS/2 power supply in your ATX system and find out that it simply can't be connected to the motherboard!

Ignorance is industry wide, mostly caused by a grassroots effort of buyers. That is to say, if you look at a site like Newegg who lists "Micro ATX form factor" power supplies, the reason they do so is because that's what buyers call it, not because it's correct terminology.

There has to be a way to classify power supply sizes so that people actually know what they're buying. And there is! PS/2 is the form factor people think of when they refer to full-sized power supplies. PS/3 is the form factor people refer to when they look at reduced-depth power supplies such as used in the Aspire X-Qpack. And SFX is the form factor people often refer to as "Micro ATX", even though others use the same slang when refering to PS/3 or TFX!

It's like ordering a soda in Georgia. You say "I'll have a Coke" and they ask "Orange, Root Beer, or Cola?"

Now that you're educated nobody can say you're ignorant on the subject. If you ignore the facts, well, then you can become stupid :) 
March 16, 2006 4:43:52 AM

Actually I come here to think lightly and give my brain a rest from the abuse of heavier details.
March 16, 2006 2:36:26 PM

Quote:
I never said ATX wasn't a motherboard form factor, I said it's not a power supply form factor. It's not.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this, but if you look up the standards for ATX, it certainly does specify the form factors for power supplies. PS/2 came out of the IBM camp nearly 20 years ago when they tried to crush the clones with their MCA (micro-channel architecture) - of course they could not, and IBM then started to make IBM clones. You are right that PS/2 is a term to describe power supplies - but for all types of applications - not just PCs. ATX is for PCs, developed, in part, to thwart IBM types, and allow the use of "off the shelf" standard (as opposed to proprietary) power supplies.

Go out to any of the major PC power supply maker's sites (Antec, PC Power and Cooling, FSP, Enermax, OCZ) - you will be hard pressed to find the term PS/2 to describe their ATX power supplies - you have to go out to electronics parts suppliers to find that. You will find, however, that Antec calls their "Baby-AT" power supplies PS/2. I think you will find in the IT industry, ATX is the common term used, and not PS/2. Although both may be correct, that does not mean the use of one over the other is a sign of stupidity.

Quote:
It's like ordering a soda in Georgia. You say "I'll have a Coke" and they ask "Orange, Root Beer, or Cola?"
That's true! But just because someone asks for a "pop", or "cola" instead of a "soda" does not make them ignorant or stupid! To call them so is just condescending arrogance. If someone is uninformed, use your expertise to educate. But calling folks names or using derogatory terms to describe them, that's just unprofessional, and certainly does nothing to encourage discussions, which is the point of forums, right?

@bb1 - first - sorry for the distractions.

That seems to be a fine PS - and I note that Toms PS Stress Test rates a silent ATX version of that supply very highly. Of course, that does not automatically mean every model is of the same quality - but it is reassuring the company makes good products. I would just caution that you may have to re-evaluate your power requirements in the future should you decide to add more RAM, a more powerful video card, or more drives, or other upgrades. This would be especially important should you decide to upgrade your motherboard/CPU.
March 16, 2006 8:56:24 PM

Woah, d00d, you're lost! Really off track. I never said anyone was stupid for orderin a "pop" or a "cola". I said "You say "I'll have a Coke" and they ask "Orange, Root Beer, or Cola?"" The lesson here is, just because they call Orange Crush and Root Beer "Coke" in Georgia doesn't mean that Orange Crush or Root Beer really are Coke. Coke is a brand name for Coca Cola and refers to a specific drink.

Similarly, power supplies also have size standards. You can buy your ATX sized ATX power supply, and while you're at it get your Coke flavored Coke and your Chicked Fried Chicken. As for the rest of us...

When it comes to power supplies, there is the power standard, then there's the size standard. ATX is a power standard for power supplies, as well as a layout standard for motherboards.

Everyone calls an ATX power supply on the PS/2 size standard simply ATX. And nearly everyone in Georgia calls Orange Crush...Coke. You ride that bandwagon well!

And I'm not even going to complain about people calling the big power supply "ATX". I've even done it myself most of the time. The point here is that it gets overbearing when people use the same concept to refer to smaller power supplies as "Micro ATX".

Here's an example: I have an Inwin Micro ATX mini-tower. It's deep enough to accept full-sized power supplies, but has occasionally come with PS/3 as well. Either PS/2 or PS/3 fit because it's deep enough to provide drive clearence with either. So if I came in here and said "I need a power supply for my Inwin model xxx", someone would say "That's a Micro ATX case and needs a Micro ATX power supply...buy this..." and refer me to SFX, which won't mount!

Another example: HP has used both SFX and PS/3 in their mini-towers. Everyone assuming "Micro ATX" is a form factor for power supplies would have me getting bad suggestions if I asked for either.

Or take the Aspire X-Qpack. It uses a PS/3 power supply. A PS/2 will "usually" fit, depending on what else is in there. If I came in here and said "Micro ATX", everyone would refer me to SFX power supplies. If I came in here and said "Cube", people might start refering me to TFX power supplies. Both are incompatible.

Hence the need to be specific in certain situations...specifically, when anything smaller than the PS/2 size is being considered.
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