Heating: CPU STILL won't cool down.....

[Sockman]

Yeah, total newbie question, but I have just upgraded to a new system after a few years of being with an ancient 1.33 Thunderbird.

Anywho, my Athlon 64 3400+ (Socket 754) 2.4 Ghz. shows up in BIOS as running at anywhere between 46-49 (118+/- *F)degrees celcius. This is immediately after boot-up.

My question: Would this be considered the 'idle' temperature or 'under load'?

I want to play the next-gen games like BF2 and CS: Source, but I am concerned for the stability of my CPU.
Am I just worrying over nothing or is this temperature reading just too high?
Or is it the HS/fan's fault? It's a Thermaltake 'Silent 939' which is also 754 compatible, BTW.

 

[psyno]

That would be considered an idle temperature.

It's a little high... ideally the idle temperature should be within a few degrees of ambient case temperature, which in turn should be within a few degrees of room temperature, which on average is about 21 C, give or take.

It's not too hot to be stable, but the temperature under load may still be. You'll probably want to evaluate how the HSF has been applied. It sounds like there may be poor contact.

 

[Sockman]

It's a brand new fan, but it runs around 2,100+ RPMs, which seems a little low to me.

I opened the cae and it went down to 44 degrees C, but it's still annoying.

 

[Grimmy]

What kind of case you using? Perhaps the airflow is being cut off, all the heat is being trapped.

 

[psyno]

That's still at least 10 C higher than you'd expect for an idle temperature. Describe how you applied the HFS to the CPU. It may need to be redone.

 

[Sockman]

Not sure on what case it is, but I will check. It does have a side fan in the thing that I turned around to blow onto the HS fan. I figured that it wouldn't do any harm, since the fan sucks cool air into the CPU, right?

Before I installed the HS, I put a tube of paste on the CPU, then my friend who was helping me assemble it decided to apply another small tube's worth on it, hinting that it might be safer than sorry.
Being rusty on building computers, I said Okay, what the hey, right? So I spread it over the CPU as evenly as I could and applied the HS like the instructions described.

Could it be that too much thermal paste can cause a contact issue between the HS and the CPU?


Here is the link for the HS that I had purchased: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835106068

 

[Grimmy]

Oh gawd... adding too much will insulate heat.

Should be a nice even thin layer.. perhaps the size of a piece of paper on the top of the core.

If you do a glob job, the compound will get on the sides of the core, when you put the HS on, which doesn't help.

If your using AS5 (Artic Silver 5), it shouldn't be no more then a BB.

 

[Sockman]

Gotcha.


Gosh durn it.

Actually, the paste is no-named from CompUSA.

Okay, so can it be cleaned off easily without damaging anything?

Also, while I see the eyes rolling from the type of paste, would anyone recommend spending the 10+ bucks for the Artic Silver?

 

[psyno]

Might as well since it sounds like you need to buy more anyway.

The idea is to use as little as you possibly can while still covering the surface enough to elimante gaps. The conductivity of thermal grease is a couple orders of magnitude worse than the heatsink. It's only there to incrase the effective surface area of contact between the chip and the heatsink, mostly by taking the place of air pockets, which of course have even worse conductivity than the grease.

The parts can be cleaned pretty easily with a soft cloth and isopropyl alcohol, which is dirt cheap at your local drugstore.

Anyway, good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Sockman]

K, going to go get the supplies now.


WHile I'm out, maybe one of you guys could help me out with my graphics card.....


http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Driver-Issues-6800-GS-ftopict178072.html


lol.

 

[Sockman]

Well, I just cleaned up the CPU & HS and replaced the grease with silver compound(much less, this time), but the CPU is STILL running at 44-48* C idle.
Now, when the stuff is coated onto the core, is the core supposed to show through the compound or should the layer be so that it just covers the silver on the core plating?

This is frustrating me beyond belief. I'm about to just take it Geek Squad or something.

 

[Grimmy]

It does take 200 hours for it to totally cure.

Insturctions - Just incase you didn't know

 

[charlieyv]

my fan runs at 3300 rpm wheter when idle or load...cpu temp when idle is 30C ... I had the same problem with another rig, the problem was the fan wasnt working properly and the thermal paste was like "old"? I solved the temp issue with a new fan and some paste

 

[shamoo]

First idle load should be consedered leaveing it on for 10 minutes in bios
next
take some pictures of the inside of your computer post them at a place like photobucket so we can see what you see its a lot better then describing it.
next when applying thermal compound the less you use the better.

 

[psyno]

Could you also describe the other relevant temperatures:

The temperature of the room.
The temperature inside the case.
The temperature your motherboard reports.

44 C should feel hot to the touch. If your CPU really is at 44 C and you can touch your heatsink and it doesn't feel hot, and worse if it doesn't even feel warm, that means the heat is not being conducted away from the die. So, can you also provide us with this qualitative measure? If it's cold, it means either that you still have poor thermal contact, or that your thermometer is lying to you.

 

[Sockman]

BTW, I didn't get the Arctic Silver; I went with Dynamax---or something---in my haste to gather cleaning supplies.

Once I spread it on, it still kind of went over the lip of the core, so maybe I did put too much on again.

I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[pat]

Yeah, total newbie question, but I have just upgraded to a new system after a few years of being with an ancient 1.33 Thunderbird.

Anywho, my Athlon 64 3400+ (Socket 754) 2.4 Ghz. shows up in BIOS as running at anywhere between 46-49 (118+/- *F)degrees celcius. This is immediately after boot-up.

My question: Would this be considered the 'idle' temperature or 'under load'?

I want to play the next-gen games like BF2 and CS: Source, but I am concerned for the stability of my CPU.
Am I just worrying over nothing or is this temperature reading just too high?
Or is it the HS/fan's fault? It's a Thermaltake 'Silent 939' which is also 754 compatible, BTW.

This is a socket 754 2.4 GHz CPU damn everybody...

Don't expect it to run at those newer core temperature. Your temp is perfectly normal, and no, BIOS is not IDLE. BIOS simply has no CPU management like the OS meaning that every part of the CPU are running full powered and heating it up more than idling in the OS.

These cpu were the older core(newcastle, IIRC.. anyway) on a 130 nm process that was getting hotter at this time, than current modern core, like venice or san diago. There is nothing you can do, because it is quite normal.

if you want to see higher temp, just let the computer running at the temprature screen in BIOS, and watch it raise.. You'll want to start to worry at temp over 65 because it "may" start to cause instability. Damages may occur at higher that 70, or more likely 80.

 

[Sockman]

Alright, so now that's out of the way....


before I reclean the CPU again, I just want to reiterate my question :

How much silver compound do I want to apply to the core itself?

BB sized?


By the way, is there any way other than the BIOS to correctly gauge the core temperature? If BIOS is putting the CPU in underload speeds, will another program view it at idle?

 

[Cochise]

This is a socket 754 2.4 GHz CPU damn everybody...

Don't expect it to run at those newer core temperature. Your temp is perfectly normal, and no, BIOS is not IDLE. BIOS simply has no CPU management like the OS meaning that every part of the CPU are running full powered and heating it up more than idling in the OS.

These cpu were the older core(newcastle, IIRC.. anyway) on a 130 nm process that was getting hotter at this time, than current modern core, like venice or san diago. There is nothing you can do, because it is quite normal.

Wait a second...those temps are "normal" for an AMD chip?? I thought all " AMD chips ran cool . You'd think were were talking about a Prescott here.

j/k

 

[MU_Engineer]

Well, it is considered a "BIOS pause" temperature. If you look at any system benchmarks, you'll see three sets of power consumption and temperatures: 100%, BIOS pause, and idle. They decrease in that order too. Those temps are a little high, but you have a 130nm chip. Does it have Cool & Quiet, and if it does, do you have it enabled? If you do and it is, then your BIOS temperatures are higher than your idle temps as C&Q isn't activated until your OS starts and the ACPI modules are loaded. My chip shows up as about 34 C in BIOS but idles at about 27-30 C once the OS is up.

 

[pat]

Alright, so now that's out of the way....


before I reclean the CPU again, I just want to reiterate my question :

How much silver compound do I want to apply to the core itself?

BB sized?


By the way, is there any way other than the BIOS to correctly gauge the core temperature? If BIOS is putting the CPU in underload speeds, will another program view it at idle?

Yep, thermal paste is for filling the minuscule gap between cpu and hsf.. don't need a truck load for sure.

Well, your finger is the best monitoring. Let it idle at OS and touch the cooler. should be warm. There is no way to actually accuratly monitor the temperature, IMHO.. I always use my finger for a better accuray. If my skin don't burn, I'm ok.

But what I do, is I leave the computer in BIOS temp mode for a while and check the temp. if it is still lower that 60, then I don't care anymore. if it show higher, I use my finger to confirm the high temp. I just carefully touch it at first thou..

 

[ivoryjohn]

Gotcha.


Gosh durn it.

Actually, the paste is no-named from CompUSA.

Okay, so can it be cleaned off easily without damaging anything?

Also, while I see the eyes rolling from the type of paste, would anyone recommend spending the 10+ bucks for the Artic Silver?

How you apply it is more critical than the brand of paste. I am using the noname 3$ paste on my opty 165 with stock cooler and idle around 30-34C.

Too much past can insulate, or worse, create air pockets that super insulate.

Also, another thing to check is that the cpu fan is not reversed. You said something about blowing cool air on the cpu, but I think the cpu fan is supposed to blow hot air off the sink fins.

 

[pat]

This is a socket 754 2.4 GHz CPU damn everybody...

Don't expect it to run at those newer core temperature. Your temp is perfectly normal, and no, BIOS is not IDLE. BIOS simply has no CPU management like the OS meaning that every part of the CPU are running full powered and heating it up more than idling in the OS.

These cpu were the older core(newcastle, IIRC.. anyway) on a 130 nm process that was getting hotter at this time, than current modern core, like venice or san diago. There is nothing you can do, because it is quite normal.

Wait a second...those temps are "normal" for an AMD chip?? I thought all " AMD chips ran cool . You'd think were were talking about a Prescott here.

j/kThey are normal for that core. It's the first core that was labelled AMD64, and my 3000+ socket 754 was running at about 42-44C. It was running at 2.0 GHz, so I fully expect the 2.4 Ghz to run at 46-49 in BIOS. Idling at the OS will be lower than that. Or rather near 45-46. And this is quite ACCEPTABLE. You may not remember, but those CPU were running before Prescott, in Northwood time.

So, yes, this temp is higher than the low 30 some achieve by newer A64 core, those that most of the poster here seem to have experience with. And yes, it is still cool, compared to the high 50C Prescott get.

Advising this guy he has a problem with temp with that core is a proof about how clueless most poster are here. Yes, there was a life before socket 939.. So, if peoples don't know what they speak about, they should shut up instead of telling wrong advice.

 

[Cochise]

This is a socket 754 2.4 GHz CPU damn everybody...

Don't expect it to run at those newer core temperature. Your temp is perfectly normal, and no, BIOS is not IDLE. BIOS simply has no CPU management like the OS meaning that every part of the CPU are running full powered and heating it up more than idling in the OS.

These cpu were the older core(newcastle, IIRC.. anyway) on a 130 nm process that was getting hotter at this time, than current modern core, like venice or san diago. There is nothing you can do, because it is quite normal.

Wait a second...those temps are "normal" for an AMD chip?? I thought all " AMD chips ran cool . You'd think were were talking about a Prescott here.

j/kThey are normal for that core. It's the first core that was labelled AMD64, and my 3000+ socket 754 was running at about 42-44C. It was running at 2.0 GHz, so I fully expect the 2.4 Ghz to run at 46-49 in BIOS. Idling at the OS will be lower than that. Or rather near 45-46. And this is quite ACCEPTABLE. You may not remember, but those CPU were running before Prescott, in Northwood time.

So, yes, this temp is higher than the low 30 some achieve by newer A64 core, those that most of the poster here seem to have experience with. And yes, it is still cool, compared to the high 50C Prescott get.

Advising this guy he has a problem with temp with that core is a proof about how clueless most poster are here. Yes, there was a life before socket 939.. So, if peoples don't know what they speak about, they should shut up instead of telling wrong advice.

I totally agree!!!

My response was more of a tongue and cheek statement (joke) in light of all the constant discussion/bashing in the past/present (although not entirely w/o merit) regarding the heat issues of the Preshott.

In fact, I actually have a few older AMD cpu rigs still running here in my office that do run quite warm.

It's all good IMO....

 

[BaronMatrix]

Well, I am using the Stock HSF for my 4400+ and I have no problem with heat. No extra paste. Right now AMD has about the best HSF with their retail box - if you're moderately overclocking or not overclocking.