New PC Questions

[metalgearjsn]

I'm looking at getting a new PC - my budget is about AUD$2500-3000 (USD $1500?) including a monitor. However, I have a few questions:

As the PC will be used largely for gaming with some web browsing on the side I'll get an AMD. However, should I go for a single or dual core CPU? I want the PC to be fairly future proof so dual core seems a good option, but someone told me AMD dual cores crash/reset your PC in many games which aren't optimised for dual core (ie most). Is this true? If I was going for dual core, as far as prices go, I'd probably go as high as the AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+, Dual-Core 2.2Ghz 1MB Cache S939. Single core, willing to get the AMD Athlon64 4000+, E4 San Diego Core, 1MB, Socket939 which is a similar price.

Should I go for an SLi or non SLi mobo? Personally I'd prefer to go non SLi and just concentrate on one good video card rather than buy two lesser cards, even if I was to get the second down the track, but would I be left in the dark in the future if I was to go without it?

Based on what I have in mind - one of the above CPU's, 2GB RAM, good Nvidia video card (7800GT?), ASUS Nforce4 mobo, what kind of PSU should I be looking at in terms of wattage and brand? I won't be using a huge amount of drives and such, just the basics, for now anyway - 200GB HDD and DVD ROM drive, maybe a fan or two as well and of course a sound card.

Is their a particular brand and type of RAM that is recommended?

Will a 17" monitor be sufficient or should I be going for 19"+? Any other details to take into consideration, eg. response time? I could look into a 19" monitor or larger, but it's extra cash that I think would be better off going into the hardware - I can easily upgrade the monitor later on. I will be getting an LCD monitor due to the saved space, and I also find them easier on the eyes after using them for long periods which is a plus.

Any help and setup suggestions are appreciated!

 

[shadowduck]

I'm looking at getting a new PC - my budget is about AUD$2500-3000 (USD $1500?) including a monitor. However, I have a few questions:

As the PC will be used largely for gaming with some web browsing on the side I'll get an AMD. However, should I go for a single or dual core CPU? I want the PC to be fairly future proof so dual core seems a good option, but someone told me AMD dual cores crash/reset your PC in many games which aren't optimised for dual core (ie most). Is this true? If I was going for dual core, as far as prices go, I'd probably go as high as the AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+, Dual-Core 2.2Ghz 1MB Cache S939. Single core, willing to get the AMD Athlon64 4000+, E4 San Diego Core, 1MB, Socket939 which is a similar price.

Should I go for an SLi or non SLi mobo? Personally I'd prefer to go non SLi and just concentrate on one good video card rather than buy two lesser cards, even if I was to get the second down the track, but would I be left in the dark in the future if I was to go without it?

Based on what I have in mind - one of the above CPU's, 2GB RAM, good Nvidia video card (7800GT?), ASUS Nforce4 mobo, what kind of PSU should I be looking at in terms of wattage and brand? I won't be using a huge amount of drives and such, just the basics, for now anyway - 200GB HDD and DVD ROM drive, maybe a fan or two as well and of course a sound card.

Is their a particular brand and type of RAM that is recommended?

Will a 17" monitor be sufficient or should I be going for 19"+? Any other details to take into consideration, eg. response time? I could look into a 19" monitor or larger, but it's extra cash that I think would be better off going into the hardware - I can easily upgrade the monitor later on. I will be getting an LCD monitor due to the saved space, and I also find them easier on the eyes after using them for long periods which is a plus.

Any help and setup suggestions are appreciated!

3000 AUD = $2200 USD roughly..

As for the single-core vs dual-core debate, if you want the system to last you beyond a year, dual core is the way to go. I have not heard of problems with gaming crashing out using AMD dual core CPUs. (I am not a gamer, but if it were a widespread problem, it would be well known.)

Non-SLI for sure. SLI is not worth it in the majority of cases unless you want to run FEAR or FarCry on max settings. Get a 7900 series nVidia card and you will be just fine.

2GB of RAM is good for the system I personally use Corsair and OCZ and recommend them both. OCZ overclocks better if you intend to OC the system. Asus A8N-E motherboard, 550W PSU like an Antec Truepower II 550.

As for monitors, if you are talking LCDs most 17" and 19" LCDs have the exact same max res (1280x1024) so it is really just a perference of what size you wish to look at. Personally I would stick with a 17", or jump to a 20/21 at 1600x1200 if you want larger.

--duck

 

[hashv2f16]

I'm looking at getting a new PC - my budget is about AUD$2500-3000 (USD $1500?) including a monitor. However, I have a few questions:

As the PC will be used largely for gaming with some web browsing on the side I'll get an AMD. However, should I go for a single or dual core CPU? I want the PC to be fairly future proof so dual core seems a good option, but someone told me AMD dual cores crash/reset your PC in many games which aren't optimised for dual core (ie most). Is this true? If I was going for dual core, as far as prices go, I'd probably go as high as the AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+, Dual-Core 2.2Ghz 1MB Cache S939. Single core, willing to get the AMD Athlon64 4000+, E4 San Diego Core, 1MB, Socket939 which is a similar price.

Should I go for an SLi or non SLi mobo? Personally I'd prefer to go non SLi and just concentrate on one good video card rather than buy two lesser cards, even if I was to get the second down the track, but would I be left in the dark in the future if I was to go without it?

Based on what I have in mind - one of the above CPU's, 2GB RAM, good Nvidia video card (7800GT?), ASUS Nforce4 mobo, what kind of PSU should I be looking at in terms of wattage and brand? I won't be using a huge amount of drives and such, just the basics, for now anyway - 200GB HDD and DVD ROM drive, maybe a fan or two as well and of course a sound card.

Is their a particular brand and type of RAM that is recommended?

Will a 17" monitor be sufficient or should I be going for 19"+? Any other details to take into consideration, eg. response time? I could look into a 19" monitor or larger, but it's extra cash that I think would be better off going into the hardware - I can easily upgrade the monitor later on. I will be getting an LCD monitor due to the saved space, and I also find them easier on the eyes after using them for long periods which is a plus.

Any help and setup suggestions are appreciated!

I would recommend this type of thing:

Athlon64 X2 4400+
2GB corsair value RAM /or/ 1GB (2x512) XMS twinX DDR400, {depending on your budget/personal preferences}
X1900XT (better value/$ than XTX)
non-SLI motherboard. (as SLI is really a waste of money -UNLESS you've got a 24"-30" monitor or something that requires really high resolutions)
I'm sure some nice person can share their opinion on a good AMD X2 motherboard.
250GB Seagate drives are probably among the best you can get for the money, i would get two of these if money left in the budget.
Enermax NoiseTaker series /or/ Enermax Liberty 500W, Antec is good too.

 

[metalgearjsn]

Thanks guys, I built one system earlier and then another one later based on your suggestions. I used the builder at www.eyo.com.au where we have bought a custom PC before. Here are the two setups, keep in mind its AUD and remember these are just mock ups, I haven't bought anything:

First:

System assembled by EYO $55
AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+, Dual-Core 2.2Ghz 1MB Cache S939 $588.5
Geil Dual Channel PC3200 400MHz DDR, 2.0GB (2x1.0GB) $297
Remove PSU which comes with the Case, w/other PSU order $-22
Windows XP Professional Edition, OEM w/hardware, SP2 $203.5
Asus S939, A8N5X, nForce4, PCI-e/DDR/SATA/Glan/8S/USB2 $143
XFX GeForce 7800GT, T70G-UDF7, 256MB DDR3, SLI/450MHz@1.05GHz $495
HDD SATA, Seagate Barracuda, 200GB, 3G/S NCQ, 8MB ST3200827AS $148.5
CoolerMaster Alum front ATX, Centurion CAC-T05UW S/B, 380w $121
535 watt ATX power supply Enermax EG565P-VE-FMA $143
DVD-ROM drive Aopen DVD-1648 16x/48, Beige/Black/white panel $41.8
LCD 17", Acer AL1716A, 12ms 500:1, Silver/Black $330

Subtotal: $2,544.30


Revised:

System assembled by EYO $55
AMD Athlon64 X2 4400+, Dual-Core 2.2Ghz 2MB Cache S939 $726
B-A8N5X Asus S939, A8N5X, nForce4, PCI-e/DDR/SATA/Glan/8S/USB2 $143
C-TWINX2G-32C2 Corsair TWINX2048-3200C2, 2GB (2x XMS1GB) PC-3200 Dual Channel DDR400, 2x64Mx64non-ECC $357.5
XFX GeForce 7800GT, T70G-UDF7, 256MB DDR3, SLI/450MHz@1.05GHz $495
CoolerMaster Alum front ATX, Centurion CAC-T05UW S/B, 380w $121
Remove PSU which comes with the Case, w/other PSU order $-22
500 watt ATX power supply Enermax ELT500AWT Liberty $174.9
LCD 17", Acer AL1716A, 12ms 500:1, Silver/Black $330
Windows XP Professional Edition, OEM w/hardware, SP2 $203.5
HDD SATA, Seagate Barracuda, 200GB, 3G/S NCQ, 8MB ST3200827AS $148.5
DVD-ROM drive Aopen DVD-1648 16x/48, Beige/Black/white panel $41.8

Subtotal: $2,774.20


I did have a look at the Asus A8N-E mobo duck, and it seems better than what I have chosen above, but EYO doesn't have it. I have asked them if they are able to order it in - if they can't, is the one I have chosen alright? I might not order from them at all but I trust them so they are my first choice at the moment.

I've added the suggested TwinX Corsair RAM in the revised system - what's the difference between that and the Geil RAM that puts it $50 more expensive?

I've gone for a 7800GT there as the GTX is $300 more. The 7900's aren't out yet here either but depending on price and performance I may consider waiting.

My first mock up above had a standard Enermax, what advantage does the Liberty have over it? Would it be worth paying $50 more for a 620W Enermax Liberty to futureproof the PC a little further?

I've thrown a 200GB HDD in at the moment as I don't really need too much space but want a bit extra just in case. I'm not the type to store huge files - I've only used 25GB on my current PC out of 80GB.

The Acer LCD there is just temporary - it's their cheapest one which I put in at the moment until I research them further and see what might be the best. I had a look at the 19"+ but the prices jump up $100-150 and more so it would be stretching it a little as I still need a sound card on top of this which I haven't really decided on - maybe some sort of Audigy.

 

[hashv2f16]

Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic may be the card you are looking for in the sound department.

Sorry I'm not of much use with s939 motherboards model specifics and that.

Well the Liberty seems to be more of a specialty line of PSUs rather than the company's bog standard line of power supplies if you know what I mean.. The liberty 500W got a good rating on THGs latest article for PSU stress tests. I know I would get the Liberty over the standard.

With regards to the 620W, most of us will have thrown out our s939 boards by the end of the year and gotten AM2s which shouldn't consume much more power anyway.

At the end of the day the 500W should suffice for all your current desktop needs and a bit of upgrading. But if you plan on using the PSU through next year's upgrade to sAM2 and maybe after that then you should probably get the 620. To power your new Radeon XI2400XZ 512MB card ya know..

BTW, are you using PriceSpy to find yer parts prices?

cheers

 

[metalgearjsn]

These prices are just from the EYO store site, they have it all there and build the PC for you. I've installed graphics and sound cards, memory and a DVD ROM drive before but I'm not sure I'm too confident building a whole PC from scratch. I haven't looked at PriceSpy but I assume its a US site, a good alternative for myself is staticice.com.au but we'll see whether or not I decide to build it myself.

I also forgot to ask earlier, do I need a certain mobo for dual core CPUs or do they all support it? And will I be able to upgrade to the AM2s later on?

 

[hashv2f16]

Nah it's actually a New Zealand site but they've made a version for Aussies too:

http://au.pricespy.biz/

Are ya in a hurry to order? I'll do sum research on that and get back to yer 2morra m8

 

[metalgearjsn]

Sorry hash, didn't see you live 'down under'

After suggestions at another forum, I'm considering going up to a 19" monitor, can anyone suggest a good one that won't break the bank? I was suggested a Samsung one but its $550 (pretty much $200 extra, for two extra inches ) and pushed the total over $3000. I'm currently building onto my 'revised' system above as it's seeming fairly solid. I have also decided to go up to the 620W Enermax Liberty as it's only a little more and will save me the hassle of upgrading it later.

I'm also tossing up between the 7800GT and 7900GT. The inconvenience here is that if I was to get the 7900GT I'd need to wait until it's released. I'll see how I go on that one but need to look into monitors for the moment.

 

[abeck_23]

I'm considering going up to a 19" monitor, can anyone suggest a good one that won't break the bank? I was suggested a Samsung one but its $550 (pretty much $200 extra, for two extra inches

Hyundai ImageQuest L90D+ is a fine monitor and cheapest for what you get.
If your gaming you'll want a low response time (lower than 16ms) and for contrast ratio you'll want anything above 600:1

Definately wait it out and get the 7900GT, IMO

 

[Maxiius]

I want the PC to be fairly future proof so dual core seems a good option, but someone told me AMD dual cores crash/reset your PC in many games which aren't optimised for dual core (ie most). Is this true?

I have a dual core AMD processor and I have not had 1 game crash/reset on me.

 

[hashv2f16]

This monitor is a bit on the expensive side but check out this review anyway
http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/samsung_930bf-lcd/

Samsung 940B is a good monitor. EYO has it $550. From past experience I don't trust ViewSonic's cheaper monitors. The cheapest I would get is the Samsung 940N, if you don't mind using analogue RGB that is.

 

[hashv2f16]

Asus A8N5X.
I've got a system on what looks to be the LGA775 Intel equivalent of that motherboard and its a good board. I wouldn't depend on it for overclocking though. Get the A8N-E if possible - that is a good board.

 

[FreshMeat]

Excuse my ignorance, but can you order from Dell? They are selling their 20.1" wide screen LCD's for $396 (USD). It's a very nice monitor that will run at 1680x1050 - much better than the 1280x1024 that you will get at 19".

Hmm.. just checked the Australian Dell site and the same moniter would cost you $878 (AUS) - quite the markup.

Any ways, if you can afford it - go for a 20" moniter - it will be money well spent.

 

[hashv2f16]

Do you know what Dell PCs are like? Well their monitors are no different..

 

[FreshMeat]

I do know what Dell pc's are like (and I am no fan of them) - but their LCD monitor's (at least their bigger ones) are quite nice. I have personally used their 20.1" (both wide and normal aspect) as well as their 24" (wide screen) and they have all been great monitors for the money. Do you have anything to back up your claim of crappy Dell LCD's?

 

[hashv2f16]

:lol: No I don't. I'm just saying I would rather buy a decent Viewsonic, Samsung, or 30" Apple Cinema Display.
I just have a stereotype in my head of what Dell monitors are like - cheap and plasticy looking, just like their computer cases.
Its to do with their product reputation. The monitors themselves may be perfectly fine, but if you're buying a kick-ass gaming system, why would you buy a monitor with a large Dell logo on the front and back? People may assume you rig is crap before they even notice its in a Lian-Li case.

 

[FreshMeat]

Here is a comparison between the Dell 2005FPS (20.1 WS) and an Apple Cinema Display (20" WS).

http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2400&p=1

The Dell wins (except for looks and cable mgmnt) - and is way cheaper. If you want to spend the extra money for looks - it is your money. I would rather put the money I saved towards something else.

 

[hashv2f16]

I agree. But that all aluminium Apple Cinema beauty is just too sexy for me not to buy.

 

[metalgearjsn]

I have a Dell PC and monitor now and the monitor is fine IMO but the price of their 20 incher is a bit more than I can pay. I am considering switching the CPU to an AMD Athlon 64 4000+ E4 San Diego Core after reading about the problems dual cores have with quite a number of games, and I don't want to put up with the hassle. The good thing about this is that I save $200 off the CPU, and can back down to XP Home and save another $100, which allows me to easily get the 19" Samsung 940B or another nice 19" monitor. Would this be a good move?

 

[hashv2f16]

not bad idea Have you thought about getting more of a mid-range A64 (e.g. 3700+ San Diego) and installing an X2 later when there are more dual core games out?
Means you can spend out more on something else now and still have the dual core later on when there's more practical use for it. I don't know.

 

[FreshMeat]

Where have you read/heard about people having problems with games when they are using a dual-core proc? I have not heard anything like this, unless you are referring to games not taking advantage of the second processor.

 

[metalgearjsn]

http://forums.amd.com/lofiversion/index.php/t65506.html

http://www.planetamd64.com/lofiversion/index.php/t16992.html

A couple of situations, I will post more later. Sure there are fixes such as setting the CPU affinity, but some of the fixes are quite complicated and anyway, I don't want to be having to fiddle with everything everytime I want to play a game.

 

[FreshMeat]

Thanks for the links.

 

[hashv2f16]

The guy who had the problem playing BF2, at the end of the thread it shows that the affinity change really didn't do anything. Which suggests that it's quite possible that it wasn't caused by the processor. Same thing again with Most Wanted - he was using a cheap MSI graphics card which may have come from a bad batch of caps or something.. Whatever it was the computer had a stability issue of the type that you get when you overclock something too far and it freezes on the last frame of the game.

 

[metalgearjsn]

Also the one in the second link the guy mentioned about adding to the boot.ini file actually makes some games worse, WoW for example. Here's the original quote that informed me of this. I'll see if I can get some more links regarding it.

"So here's my warning - DO NOT BUY AN AMD DUAL CORE PROCESSOR

So many people, including myself have reported problems with playing games that aren't optimised for dual core processors (i.e. currently, almost every game) - there are numerous fixes out there, works for some, not for others. The problems vary from user to user, but unfortunately I can't play most games without them crashing or resetting my PC. Incredibly frustrating and I wish I knew that before purchasing my high end system. I will have to wait a while until games are specifically programmed for dual cores for me to get the most out of my PC."