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6800GS AGP v. X800GTO AGP

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March 16, 2006 12:51:32 AM

Ok guys - I have made my decision down to TWO different video cards.

One is the 6800GS AGP

and the other is X800GTO AGP

From what I can tell - they are NEARLY the same except 6800 handles SHADER MODEL 3 and the X800 has a higher core clock speed...

The difference for me is that the X800 is a few bucks cheaper, and It means I can get a 10 dollar better Power Supply that the 25 dollar job I can afford with the 6800 ...

I like the 6800 more, and I have no reason too... never even seen either one...

any thoughts?!

More about : 6800gs agp x800gto agp

March 16, 2006 12:58:36 AM

get the 6800 GS agp it's unlockable to 16 pipes , 6 vertex units. its basically a 6800 gt.
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 1:06:07 AM

If they are both at stock reference speeds, the X800GTO will usually outperform the 6800GS in AGP. In PCI-e, this reverses to some degree. If you happen upon a higher clocked 6800GS AGP, then that could even the performance out.

Look at Digit-lifes agp charts. Specifically, card # 10 the X800GTO, and card # 19, which is the Asus 6800 V9999 Gamer Edition. While this card came out way before the 6800GS, it is IDENTICAL in specs to the reference AGP 6800GS. Both 12 pixel, 5 vertex, 256 bit, 256MB, with identical 350/1000 clock speeds. So look over the games that matter to you, at the resolution you hope to play, and you can decide which is better. Honestly, I would put more weight on performance as SM3 in this caliber card doesn't really add much if anything. If you come up saying they are tied, then pick the SM3 card as the tie breaker.
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March 16, 2006 1:11:29 AM

I hate to be the one to bring this up, but the x800gto doesn't support sm 3.0. all important feature for new upcoming titles like oblivion.
March 16, 2006 1:17:57 AM

I have the exact same dilema, at newegg you can get the saphhire x800gto for $175, and at tiger direct you can get the evga 6800gs CO (which is factory overclocked at 400/1100, but only until the end of March) on sale for $200. Personally, I'm going to wait and play Oblivion on my crappy 5600, and see if it's playable. Since $175+ is a lot of money. Hope this helps.
March 16, 2006 1:32:56 AM

Quote:
I hate to be the one to bring this up, but the x800gto doesn't support sm 3.0. all important feature for new upcoming titles like oblivion.


I hate to be rude, but you didn't bring it up. I mentioned in the first post...

However, I was unaware of any title that will be unplayable because of the SM 3.0...

really - How important IS IT?
March 16, 2006 1:45:05 AM

Quote:
If they are both at stock reference speeds, the X800GTO will usually outperform the 6800GS in AGP. In PCI-e, this reverses to some degree. If you happen upon a higher clocked 6800GS AGP, then that could even the performance out.

Look at Digit-lifes agp charts. Specifically, card # 10 the X800GTO, and card # 19, which is the Asus 6800 V9999 Gamer Edition. While this card came out way before the 6800GS, it is IDENTICAL in specs to the reference AGP 6800GS. Both 12 pixel, 5 vertex, 256 bit, 256MB, with identical 350/1000 clock speeds. So look over the games that matter to you, at the resolution you hope to play, and you can decide which is better. Honestly, I would put more weight on performance as SM3 in this caliber card doesn't really add much if anything. If you come up saying they are tied, then pick the SM3 card as the tie breaker.


Well - You sent me to the PCI-EXPRESS version. I am using AGP... so when I looked at that, the X800GTO feel a few notches behind the 6800 w/256mb ram in almost every single game....

So, I am convinced more than ever that i need the 6800GS... But now the trick is finding the agp version for less than 189....
March 16, 2006 1:45:09 AM

Look at the Winter VGA Charts from THG here. Specifically the difference between High and Very High settings. That is the difference you will see. It's up to you if you think it is worth it.
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 1:47:36 AM

First of all, he already brought it up and I made reference to it, that makes you #3 on the list. But thx for pointing it out. :wink: Second, what current game or announced game is SM3 only? any or NONE? Also, just how well is a 6800GS AGP going to do in SM3 eye candy in any game including oblivion? You really think the overall IQ at playable settings will be better on the 6800GS AGP because it's SM3? Again, it's a checkbox feature for GF6 as these cards are too weak to take advantage of it. It doesn't hurt to have sm3, but it isn't a big deal even on my 6800U which is still too weak for HDR and softshadows without the major sacrifice of lowered resolution without fsaa; no thx.
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 2:05:11 AM

Quote:
Well - You sent me to the PCI-EXPRESS version. I am using AGP... so when I looked at that, the X800GTO feel a few notches behind the 6800 w/256mb ram in almost every single game....

So, I am convinced more than ever that i need the 6800GS... But now the trick is finding the agp version for less than 189....

??? Not sure what you are saying. That is an odd conclussion unless Doom 3 and Riddick are your games. Farcry, fear, COD2 all easily favor the X800GTO. My link was to the AGP charts. Which is what you want, correct? The PCI-e 6800GS is faster than the AGP version due to higher clock speeds. IN AGP, the X800GTO outperforms the 6800GS way more times than not. If you buy a 6800GS AGP, try to get a higher clocked version like the evga.
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 2:07:43 AM

LOL, and what card do you suppose those screenies came from? A 6800GS or a 7800GTX? My guess is not a GF6, espeically not a 12 piper clocked 350/1000.

SM3 is important in some games, like AOE3, to get the best visual quality. But more important is ahving a card with the power to utilize it.
March 16, 2006 2:08:10 AM

That is a very heavy exaggeration of the difference between the two in order to make NVidia look batter at the time. Does it say what two cards those are using?

The picture on the right is not on high settings with even a halfway decent card. Look at how angular and blocky the right picture is. SM3.0 doesn't have that much to do with that. It affects textures more than anything.

Didn't see the second set of pictures, but they are a better representation, and the difference isn't that huge.
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 2:16:38 AM

Yup, his own review talks about the need to cut any midrange card back to SM2.0 anyway if you hope to use FSAA/AF at even 1024x768. It's all about the sacrifices. If 800x600 sm3 maxed out is something to marvel about, so be it. But notice just how bad the X800GTO spanks the higher clocked PCI-e 6800GS with AA/AF on. The 6800GS manages 22 fps average at a mere 10x7. So you have SM3 support, but can only use it at lower resolutions without FSAA..... otherwise it is abck to SM2.0 codepath even on the 6800GS. How much of a huge improvement is that? And as games get more demanding it will only get worse. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/games-20...
March 16, 2006 2:24:10 AM

As I do with any purchase, I will give this until tomorrow night to click the YES button, in case something drastically changes... BUT I think I have made my decision!

Here is what I've got, and it's almost EXACTLY 250 bucks with shipping (unfortunatly) and tax (even more begrudgingly)...

P56-7024 :: PNY GeForce 6800 GS / 256MB GDDR3 / AGP 8x / DVI / VGA / TV Out / Video Card (1 lbs)
In Stock $189.99 $189.99


ULT31839 ON :: Ultra / V-Series / 350-Watt / ATX / 120mm Fan / 20/24-Pin / SATA Ready / Open Box Power Supply (2 lbs)


SUBTOTAL
S&H Ground (3 to 7 days)..$13.99Second Day (2 days)...$20.93Next Day (1 day)......$46.93Truck................$157.50

TAX
TOTAL


I got a deal on an open box power supply... but it should do the trick!
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 2:36:22 AM

Well, I hope you at least re-checked those performance charts and your conclusion you posted above. You probably can't do much better than what you picked in AGP for the money. But note, the AGP 6800GS is slower than the PCI-e one. If that PNY is clocked 350/1000, it will be slower than a X800GTO in the majority of games. Also, note, seeing how the AGP 6800GS is slower than the PCI-e, then recheck those AOE3 charts and take notice that you will be very limited with the 6800GS when in SM3 mode. Any level of FSAA or higher resolutions, you will have to revert to SM2 codepath anyway, not to mention have a slower card in shader intensive titles. Now move away to FPS games instead where higher framerates are desired and things get worse. As I stated, IMO even my top of the line 6800U OC is too weak to get too excited about it supporting SM3.

Again, it's just a bad time for an AGP upgrade, so for the money you'll have a hard time beating what you picked. Personally, if cheaper, I'd grab the faster X800GTO. If you have a local compusa, you may want to check if the AGP X850 pro is in stock. It is gone online, but at $179, it is easily faster than either the X800GTO or 6800GS AGP.

It's just sad, because if you were talking PCI-e, the discusion would include way more powerful cards in the 7600GT($189) and X850XT($165). :cry: 

Good luck.
March 16, 2006 10:49:07 AM

Quote:
As I do with any purchase, I will give this until tomorrow night to click the YES button, in case something drastically changes... BUT I think I have made my decision!

Here is what I've got, and it's almost EXACTLY 250 bucks with shipping (unfortunatly) and tax (even more begrudgingly)...

P56-7024 :: PNY GeForce 6800 GS / 256MB GDDR3 / AGP 8x / DVI / VGA / TV Out / Video Card (1 lbs)
In Stock $189.99 $189.99


ULT31839 ON :: Ultra / V-Series / 350-Watt / ATX / 120mm Fan / 20/24-Pin / SATA Ready / Open Box Power Supply (2 lbs)


SUBTOTAL
S&H Ground (3 to 7 days)..$13.99Second Day (2 days)...$20.93Next Day (1 day)......$46.93Truck................$157.50

TAX
TOTAL


I got a deal on an open box power supply... but it should do the trick!


OK - So maybe I am wrong... the X800GTO Is slightly faster?

I dont own any games with SM3... but I might own some eventually. Right now I mostly play HALF LIFE 2... ( I want to replay it when I get my new card) and COUNTER STRIKE:SOURCE online...

Also - does that power supply have the neccesary connectors?!
March 16, 2006 4:17:24 PM

Quote:
get the 6800 GS agp it's unlockable to 16 pipes , 6 vertex units. its basically a 6800 gt.
What you are saying is true of the vanilla 6800, but not of the 6800GS.

The 6800GS has no extra unlockable pipes or vertex units; still, it performs slightly better than the 6800GT which has 4 additional pipes and 1 additional vertex unit.
March 16, 2006 5:04:00 PM

Quote:
get the 6800 GS agp it's unlockable to 16 pipes , 6 vertex units. its basically a 6800 gt.

Actually, that's a curious question. It does seem that some gamers have claimed to have done this, but then again, the same claims have been heard around the PCI-express version; that one uses the NV42 chip, which, like the NV41 used in the PCI-e plain 6800, has only 12/5 pixel/vertex units to start off with. Given the price of producing even sub-par NV40 chips, (and the fact that nVidia has effectively cut production for all NV40 and NV45s) suggests that they really would be using bridged NV42s instead.

However, it's quite possible, for some reason, that they've still got NV40s. However, if so, why aren't they making new 6800GTs? People liked them a lot more than the 6800GS, and even on PCI-express, there's still a bit of a noticable difference in power, and on AGP, it's blatently apparent, as the 6800GS AGP is really nothing more than a plain 6800 with 256MB of 1.0GHZ GDDR3. (much like the X800GTO is the same difference to a plain X800)

Quote:
I hate to be the one to bring this up, but the x800gto doesn't support sm 3.0. all important feature for new upcoming titles like oblivion.

That's also a curious example to cite, given that the game accomplishes all but one thing under SM 2.0, and that last thing, the tone-mapping component of HDR, (glows are capable of being handled under SM 2.0) is something that many PC gamers have said they won't use anyway, as it's excludes using multi-sample AA on any video card, as the developers of that game have such disabled it. (aside from that, they claim some performance advantages, though some media have suggested that it's a minimal, and nearly negligable, gain)

Most effects that do use SM 3.0 also take up a LOT of graphics processing power, and at that level, it is actually a toss-up whether it would be worthwhile. Most likely starting with the 7600GT, yes, and definitely yes by the time you reach tyhe 7800GT, but at the 6800GS/X800GTO level, you'd likely be disabling most SM 3.0 effects for performance reason anyway.
March 16, 2006 5:43:05 PM

Quote:
The 6800GS has no extra unlockable pipes or vertex units; still, it performs slightly better than the 6800GT which has 4 additional pipes and 1 additional vertex unit.


You're confusing the PCIe version with the AGP version of the 6800 GS.

PCIe 6800 GS (NV42) is a native 12-pipeline part

The AGP 6800 GS is basically an overclocked 6800, it's a 16-pipeline NV40/41 with 4 pipes disabled.

Still doesn't guarantee a successful pipe unlock though...
March 16, 2006 6:15:18 PM

with the new games coming out like oblivion and other titles, the 6800 is the bottom of the line on the recomended graphix power. if i were you id stick with teh 5600 until you have enough cash to get the AGP 7800GS. its a lil more expensive but will last you alot longer than a 6800GS will. ive gone over this too many times in my own head. why spend almost $200 on a weak card?

and dont get me wrong when i say its weak, i simply mean its the lowest recomendation for new games coming out.

i have a 6600GT and i dont think a jump to a 6800 is big enough.
March 16, 2006 6:30:07 PM

Quote:
with the new games coming out like oblivion and other titles, the 6800 is the bottom of the line on the recomended graphix power. if i were you id stick with teh 5600 until you have enough cash to get the AGP 7800GS. its a lil more expensive but will last you alot longer than a 6800GS will. ive gone over this too many times in my own head. why spend almost $200 on a weak card?

and dont get me wrong when i say its weak, i simply mean its the lowest recomendation for new games coming out.

i have a 6600GT and i dont think a jump to a 6800 is big enough.


Well to give you some more background, I have an FX5200, and it sucks... in fact, I used to have the PCI version of the same card.. (NOT PCI-E... just PCI)...

ALSO - I am doing some website work for a company and they are paying to upgrade my computer. Ive gotten a new sound card, a gig of ram, some software, and the last part will be a new graphics card and power supply...
March 16, 2006 6:54:10 PM

hows this:

Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price


SAPPHIRE 100131 Radeon X800GTO 256MB GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X Video Card - OEM
Model #: 100131
Item #: N82E16814102608

Remove Save Move To Wish List $175.00 $175.00

APEX AL-A350ATX ATX 350W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: AL-A350ATX
Item #: N82E16817154012
Remove Save Move To Wish List $27.50 $27.50
SpeakersQty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price


Update YOMMO MLI-467 15W 5.1 Speaker - Retail
Model #: MLI-467
Item #: N82E16836151052

Remove Save Move To Wish List $29.99 $29.99
March 16, 2006 7:42:40 PM

Quote:
if i were you id stick with teh 5600 until you have enough cash to get the AGP 7800GS. its a lil more expensive but will last you alot longer than a 6800GS will. ive gone over this too many times in my own head. why spend almost $200 on a weak card?


And who wants to spend $300 on a platform that's obsolete in 6 months, when $300 would buy a brand new 7900 GT if you had a PCI-express setup?

Any AGP upgrade should be a stopgap except in very special circumstances, and an X800 GTO or 6800 GS would fit that bill nicely.

It's rare that a 7800 GS purchase makes sense at all, It's basically an overclocked 6800 Ultra. Hell, if you unlocked the pipes on an overclocked 6800 GS AGP you'd have the same performance for $100 less...
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 8:25:35 PM

Yeah, I agree. And the 7800GS prices are going the wrong way. They are slim pickings now compared to week one and $320 seems to be about the lowest. That is just horrible as PCI-e has seen sub $300 7800GT deals now turn into $300 7900GT and X1800XT deals. The bang for buck gap between AGP and PCI-e is just huge and widening each week. Can you just imagine if X1800XT or 7900GT was available in AGP for $300, they would sell every one they could put on the shelves.

As you probably know, I like to provide links when I can to a well priced card that meets someones needs. But shoot, that's getting downright impossible with AGP with 6800GS over $200 and 7800GS over $300. I'd take a $290 BBA AIW X800XT over a 7800GS just because of the features and the fact that a better AIW PCI-e card actually cost more. At least you get a fancy remote to justify the cost. :tongue:
March 16, 2006 8:45:28 PM

Quote:
And who wants to spend $300 on a platform that's obsolete in 6 months, when $300 would buy a brand new 7900 GT if you had a PCI-express setup?

Any AGP upgrade should be a stopgap except in very special circumstances, and an X800 GTO or 6800 GS would fit that bill nicely.

It's rare that a 7800 GS purchase makes sense at all, It's basically an overclocked 6800 Ultra. Hell, if you unlocked the pipes on an overclocked 6800 GS AGP you'd have the same performance for $100 less...

Keep in mind that GeForce 7 cards also come with support for transparency AA, (still feasible for such a card in most games, including ones like Half-Life2 and Far Cry) as well as having a much bigger second ALU in each shader. So there are some actual changes that merited the name change from "GeForce 6" to "GeForce 7."

Quote:
As you probably know, I like to provide links when I can to a well priced card that meets someones needs. But shoot, that's getting downright impossible with AGP with 6800GS over $200 and 7800GS over $300. I'd take a $290 BBA AIW X800XT over a 7800GS just because of the features and the fact that a better AIW PCI-e card actually cost more. At least you get a fancy remote to justify the cost. :tongue:

Yes, originally, that very card kept getting asked about by people looking for a decent AGP card; I told them that it wasn't worth it, as the AIW cards cost quite a bit more than their normal Radeon counterparts. But a week or so ago, I looked back at the prices, and with 7800GS cards going up, a dearth of the "superclock" cards, and I've realized that for a top-notch card, little actually DOES beat the X800XT, and that price is about as good as you're going to get for one.

Makes me glad I could get my X800XT for $250US. I was lucky to get in before AGP started drying up.
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 8:59:13 PM

For ages, the AIW X800XT was usually as cheap or cheaper after rebate than the plain X800XT as strange as that sounds. My retail BBA AIW X800XT was $230 just before the 7800GS came out.
a b U Graphics card
March 16, 2006 9:35:04 PM

Here are a few more links for you to think about. A couple are out of your budget, but I figured they are worth posting for other AGP'ers searching for a good current price.


AGP Deals in the U.S.

Retail XFX 7800GS $287
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=XFX-780GSO

Retail BBA AIW X800XT $285
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-AIW800X

Retail Sapphire X800GTO $175 + shipping
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-A8GTO2

Retail BFG 6800GS $200
http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/productdetails.asp?submit...

Retail Sapphire X1600 Pro $121 + shipping
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-A1600P


eWiz is kicking butt in AGP prices right now.

Another note, if you have a Compusa retail store near by, it's worth seeing if they have any X850 pro AGP or X800XL AGP's in stock as they have had very good in store prices(for AGP) on these cards recently.
March 17, 2006 12:29:56 AM

Quote:
Here are a few more links for you to think about. A couple are out of your budget, but I figured they are worth posting for other AGP'ers searching for a good current price.


AGP Deals in the U.S.

Retail XFX 7800GS $287
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=XFX-780GSO

Retail BBA AIW X800XT $285
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-AIW800X

Retail Sapphire X800GTO $175 + shipping
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-A8GTO2

Retail BFG 6800GS $200
http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/productdetails.asp?submit...

Retail Sapphire X1600 Pro $121 + shipping
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-A1600P


eWiz is kicking butt in AGP prices right now.

Another note, if you have a Compusa retail store near by, it's worth seeing if they have any X850 pro AGP or X800XL AGP's in stock as they have had very good in store prices(for AGP) on these cards recently.


Well thanks, but my limit on the card was 200.. in other words 250 with power supply...

I found an X800 GTO for 175!
a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2006 12:47:00 AM

$175 shipped is a great price. $25 cheaper than the BFG 6800GS, and I see eWiz wants $10(lame) to ship that retail Sapphire GTO, making it $185.
March 17, 2006 1:00:19 AM

I say buy it before the people here make you question your decision again.
March 17, 2006 1:00:22 AM

Quote:
$175 shipped is a great price. $25 cheaper than the BFG 6800GS, and I see eWiz wants $10(lame) to ship that retail Sapphire GTO, making it $185.



Yes, and with the savigns I can buy a cheap 5.1 speaker setup, since im still rocking the two crappy ones my computer came with! ha ha!
!