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What would you do for a Serious Gameing rig?

Total: 39 votes

  • AMD fx-60
  • 36 %
  • AMD Opteron 165 OC to 2.7
  • 65 %
March 17, 2006 4:18:39 PM

Am I missing something here?? Why would anyone buy any thing else than an opteron if you can get a AMD Opteron 165 for 325$ and over clock it to the speeds of a FX-60 (costs 1100$) and get the EXACT same performance? im just not understanding this. there shurely must be something that makes them differnt. am i missing a key idea here? what does the FX do that an opteron cant that would cause that big of a price gap? why even have the Athlon line? why not just opterons (1xx Series) if there is no difference between which does what. If they are EXACTLY the same except the Opty overclocks MUCH better. ( dont bring marketing into this, this question is for pure tech info)

More about : explain

March 17, 2006 4:29:28 PM

FX are for rich people for whom 700$ extra is nothing. They do come with unlocked multipliers but due to their already top frequencies you don't get good results OCing them.
Opterons were made for servers,thus they are more reliable and solid, of better quality than X2. People became to realise what an opportunity it was to OC them to unbelievable speeds without moding or other complex methods. They were meant to run stable and cool though i doubt the AMD
guys thought of OC before shipping the product. The result was more and more people moved to Opterons and of course a sudden increase in prices.
March 17, 2006 4:32:02 PM

Cyph0r it basically comesdown to this. FX is a GAMING and Enthuasist RIG, SO you can only PUSH it so far For its Software Capibility. But Opty is a Server RIG, it can be pushed as fasr as that because Its going to be using its nternet connections and latency to Do its work So U CAn Trust it for its SERVER Capabilitys. and FX for its GAMING capibliltues. not Vice versa.
Related resources
March 17, 2006 4:34:05 PM

Quote:
Cyph0r it basically comesdown to this. FX is a GAMING and Enthuasist RIG, SO you can only PUSH it so far For its Software Capibility. But Opty is a Server RIG, it can be pushed as fasr as that because Its going to be using its nternet connections and latency to Do its work So U CAn Trust it for its SERVER Capabilitys. and FX for its GAMING capibliltues. not Vice versa.


So your saying the logical arcitecture is different and that even tho they are clocked the same same dual core and same stats. they arnt going to perform the same?
March 17, 2006 4:36:53 PM

Well they Might perform the Same in some areas But OPTY wont be as reliable and as stable as FX when used for GAMING and Benching things. You Dont See Any one Buying Xenon processers for Running Halfelife2 do u? even though you can do it but it would be a waste of a Server Processer.
March 17, 2006 4:38:54 PM

I'd like to see 10 of these Opteron 165's running at 2.7 GHz with the stock (although far better than Athlon 64, but perhaps same as FX-60) heatsink, with the heat pipes.

Until then, don't believe the Opteron 165 can overclock to 2.7 GHz every single time without stability issues.

The first batch of Opteron 165, Socket 939 (yeah, they are really Opterons on Socket 939 :p ), might have been good, but the next ones may only overclock to 2.3 or 2.5 GHz.

If you can't afford the risk, do not take it, and just get a 2.6 GHz dual-core CPU from the get go.

Also the FX series is not multiplier locked in either direction, so far easier to overclock a shade more, and try for 3.0 GHz with more advanced cooling.
March 17, 2006 5:19:31 PM

I bet ten out of ten opterons will hit 2.5 GHz, which would be within 10% of the performance of an fx60. Those opterons that do clock higher will be an even better buy. Face it, AMD shot themselves in the foot when they released the dual core opteron for the 939 platform.
March 17, 2006 5:37:17 PM

Quote:
I bet ten out of ten opterons will hit 2.5 GHz, which would be within 10% of the performance of an fx60. Those opterons that do clock higher will be an even better buy. Face it, AMD shot themselves in the foot when they released the dual core opteron for the 939 platform.


Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.
March 17, 2006 5:48:44 PM

Quote:
I bet ten out of ten opterons will hit 2.5 GHz, which would be within 10% of the performance of an fx60. Those opterons that do clock higher will be an even better buy. Face it, AMD shot themselves in the foot when they released the dual core opteron for the 939 platform.


Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.

no they both run on 939 boards both procs will run on the same board
March 17, 2006 5:51:21 PM

Ok, but still Ones ment to Be Loaded For Serious Use"FX" and the Opty is ment for Server type of things. Thats Why the Speeds are same and Prices are Different. Otherwise i have the money to Buy that
Opty
March 17, 2006 6:00:41 PM

Quote:
Ok, but still Ones ment to Be Loaded For Serious Use"FX" and the Opty is ment for Server type of things. Thats Why the Speeds are same and Prices are Different. Otherwise i have the money to Buy that
Opty


but from what i can deduct the only thing that makes them differnt is that the OPTY 2xx series is multi proc and that the 1xx is just the opty name with the same Arcitecture
March 17, 2006 6:10:47 PM

I think what cyphor is saying is that he knows what they are "meant" for, but they are still closely related so he sees no difference.. maybe whats the REAL difference between the two, not just clock speeds and what not.
March 17, 2006 7:02:58 PM

Quote:

Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.

Your ignorance is amazing; there is no real difference between an Athlon and an Opteron.
You rant about Opterons not being stable; last time I checked, servers are meant to be run 24/7.
March 17, 2006 7:03:27 PM

Optys have 1Mb L2 Cache per core.

There are also rumours that the optys are picked to be more stable, and the rest are set as x2's, or that the optys use a better quality silicon (highly doubt it).
March 17, 2006 7:07:54 PM

congratz ur sig and avatar are dumb...
March 17, 2006 7:10:25 PM

Quote:
congratz ur sig and avatar are dumb...


What?
March 17, 2006 7:18:03 PM

please look who it was in reply to before asking questions, it was in reply to YO KID or whatever, last night he was talking about how he babbled to get 100 posts so he could use his avatar and sig, then bragging how there cool... and uhh, they speak for themselves.
March 17, 2006 7:21:18 PM

Ah yes, sorry, i do appoligise.

Back to the point, what i would do, and i will be with this month and next month's pay packets is the opty route. Whether its a 165 or 170 (for a 1:1 ratio) i havent decided yet, and yes, it will be clocked like a bitch.
March 17, 2006 8:57:58 PM

Quote:
Well they Might perform the Same in some areas But OPTY wont be as reliable and as stable as FX when used for GAMING and Benching things. You Dont See Any one Buying Xenon processers for Running Halfelife2 do u? even though you can do it but it would be a waste of a Server Processer.





Yah but you do see ppl buying Opteron 165 for gaming, because its the best out there for the price.
March 17, 2006 9:18:02 PM

last i checked intel server cpus were outragiously priced. optys r as cheap as x2's xeons r like what 500 for a half decent one and 1200 for a decent single core with ht? i duno if those r accurate but its prob close. u cant compare xeon to p4 becuause there totally different. optys and x2 use the same core and are very similar
March 17, 2006 9:39:49 PM

This is something I've successfully been doing for a living for the better part of 25 yrs. So I can say this with some authority. To put it in simple terms.
Although the CPU's you are trying to compare heve the same Toledo Core (and this applys to all cores and manufactures) The Opteron DOES NOT compare dirrectly to the Athlon 64, FX or X2 CPU's. The one thing that everyone seems to be missing here is the Instruction Set of the CPU's. Server based processors carry a different set of resident instructions then all destop processors. They are not designed for resident handling of many of the processes utililized in gaming. Yes, they will run most games quite well. However, the bulk of it's 'horsepower' sits idol while it parcels out opperations to the rest of the system in a game enviromrnt. While in the same enviroment, the desktop CPU's such as the FX handle this operations themselves. As for the price, Opterons are price pointed much different due to it's intended market. It's one thing for a private gamer to drop $700 - $1200 on a single CPU, but not many company's (those actually utilizing server processors) to replace tens if not hundreds of CPU's at the same price. Most small to mid-sized companies (large companies generally don't use X86 based servers) can't or won't commit $100,000 for cpu's. And chip makers realize this.
March 17, 2006 11:50:54 PM

Quote:
Man you're a fanboy who have got no phuking clue about the products which you're a fan of. *shakes head*


:p  I Do admit that i have no real idea on the differences between Opteron and FX series Architectures But Don't blame me Completely. I let loose my Slightly less Intelligent Computer dork friend on this Post. But i Do Admit the Last one was mine LOL. My Noobyness was on this the last one. The first ones was my friend yo. Srry yall. no prob you can still all bash me for AMD Noobyness "Good press or bad press its all Press atleast" i say!"

Quote:
Ok, but still Ones ment to Be Loaded For Serious Use"FX" and the Opty is ment for Server type of things. Thats Why the Speeds are same and Prices are Different. Otherwise i have the money to Buy that
Opty
March 18, 2006 12:45:32 AM

Quote:
This is something I've successfully been doing for a living for the better part of 25 yrs. So I can say this with some authority. To put it in simple terms.
Although the CPU's you are trying to compare heve the same Toledo Core (and this applys to all cores and manufactures) The Opteron DOES NOT compare dirrectly to the Athlon 64, FX or X2 CPU's. The one thing that everyone seems to be missing here is the Instruction Set of the CPU's. Server based processors carry a different set of resident instructions then all destop processors. They are not designed for resident handling of many of the processes utililized in gaming. Yes, they will run most games quite well. However, the bulk of it's 'horsepower' sits idol while it parcels out opperations to the rest of the system in a game enviromrnt. While in the same enviroment, the desktop CPU's such as the FX handle this operations themselves. As for the price, Opterons are price pointed much different due to it's intended market. It's one thing for a private gamer to drop $700 - $1200 on a single CPU, but not many company's (those actually utilizing server processors) to replace tens if not hundreds of CPU's at the same price. Most small to mid-sized companies (large companies generally don't use X86 based servers) can't or won't commit $100,000 for cpu's. And chip makers realize this.


I don't think so..
It's all the same basic core with very few tweaks for cache and MP interface.
No one would design different cores for different segments..
March 18, 2006 1:41:30 AM

You're right.

The processors are not specially screened, or anything.

Of course, all the ones with 512 KB L2 cache will become Athlon 64's, as there are no 512 KB L2 cache Optereon models.

Some with 1 MB L2 cache become Athlon 64, some Opteron, some Athlon 64 FX.

The dual-core ones of the same die would become Opteron 165 - 180, or 865-880, or Athlon 64 FX-60's

However not every chip can hit even 2.4 GHz, Most of them will do 2.2 GHz regardless, some do 2.6+ GHz, and they become the higher end parts depending on market demand only.

Putting the Opteron 'badge' on a few Socket 939 chips (as 'real' Opterons, even the 100 series ones, are Socket 940, and have coherent HyperTransport links to other CPUs) was the best thing AMD ever did. All the Fanboys have more 'choice' and can rave about their 'Opterons' (Albeit 100 series, single CPU socket, Socket 939, usually without ECC RAM. Registered RAM isn't really an option on Socket 939 boards, but Unbuffered ECC is).

Opteron 100 series (Socket 939) were meant for 'blade' style servers, using Unbuffered (vs more expensive Registered) ECC DDR-SDRAM. The downside is they can't be upgraded with huge capacity Registered DIMMs. These servers are not in need of a high clocked processor, and certainly are not overclocked at all. They'd be passively cooled if possible.

It is simply staggering how many AMD fanboys do not even read or visit the AMD website: http://www.amd.com ; and read the documentation.

Also have a good long hard look at: http://multicore.amd.com ; aswell.

No special instruction set differences are present at all.


RIGHT HERE, Explains how the Socket 939 Opteron 100 series, differs from the Socket 940 Opteron 100 series:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...
March 18, 2006 12:03:31 PM

Quote:
I bet ten out of ten opterons will hit 2.5 GHz, which would be within 10% of the performance of an fx60. Those opterons that do clock higher will be an even better buy. Face it, AMD shot themselves in the foot when they released the dual core opteron for the 939 platform.


Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.

no they both run on 939 boards both procs will run on the same board


I knew i was'nt that wrong Dual-Core AMD Opteron™ processors can be inserted into existing 940-pin sockets that support 90nm products. AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual-Core processors and FX Series can be inserted into existing 939-pin sockets. So you do need Different Motherboards for each type of Processor.

EDIT: Ok, so WHen it comes to Socket 939-Pin Single Processor Opterons. FX-60 can Pair up in Speed and thingy Wise. Alright then I'll wait for AM2 to come out and let Conroe come Out and i'll see the prices drop and whichever is better bang for the buck. I'll go out and get that. And i'm going to Stick to Dual Core. Just need to know for sure if i need 64-bit CPU or not.
March 18, 2006 12:44:54 PM

All decent dual-core x86/x64 processors support x64 via EM64T or AMD64 anyway.

The early Core Duo might not - the Pentium M dual core one.

Other than that nothing comes to mind as a dual-core x86/x64 processing lacking x64 support.

Can anyone else think of any others ?
March 18, 2006 7:22:28 PM

I think alot of it has to do with the fact that people want the most bang for their money without having to overclock and, they think it gives them bragging rights. Most people have no clue as what an Opteron is and would never think to use it as a regular workstation vs. a server.

If only everybody read this forum, they would certainly know the differences. On the other hand, if everybody that currently owns an fx60 owned an opty instead, they're might not be enough to go around.
March 18, 2006 7:39:12 PM

From my years of experience, here is my take:

FX-60 is geared toward performance gurus, enthusiasts, and people who have more money than know-how. As such, the core rating is determined by a number close to its actual maximum. The processor isn't really designed to have a lod of OC headroom.

Opterons are server chips, and are designed for stability under constant load. They are more than capable of handling very intense processes such as games (contrary to what some here have claimed). However, they are generally rated fairly conservatively in order to insure that stability under load. This leaves a lot of headroom for OC while still ensuring stability. You see this a lot with servers. Intel and Sun do the same thing to one extent or another.

To clear up some confusion, and I know some of this has been said already, but there is NO Instruction set differences, No architecture difference, and No performance difference between the socket 939 Opteron 1xx series and the Athlon 64/FX series other than they cache and the unlocked multiplier. The pricing is designed to be attractive to businesses, and those that keep up to date will remeber that AMD never intended to Opterons to get into the retail space, and has tried to limit sales to home users in order to have more available for business use.
a b à CPUs
March 18, 2006 7:46:49 PM

Quote:

Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.

Your ignorance is amazing; there is no real difference between an Athlon and an Opteron.
You rant about Opterons not being stable; last time I checked, servers are meant to be run 24/7.


AMD opteron is basically the same as the athlon 64, however, the opty has more hyper-transport links for a faster connection between the CPU cores and everything else plugged into the motherboard.
March 18, 2006 8:04:16 PM

they both have 2000mhz ht... old socket 754 athlong 64's had 800 (1600mhz) ht. ur wrong, they are identical
March 18, 2006 8:38:03 PM

i think he means multipliers, which pretty much mean notihng if u up the memory speed u can achieve the same clock speeds as say a chip with 13 multiplyers with a chip that has 11 by simply upping the memory
March 18, 2006 8:44:50 PM

Quote:
they both have 2000mhz ht... old socket 754 athlong 64's had 800 (1600mhz) ht. ur wrong, they are identical


Actually, that's not exactly right. It was determined buy the chipset that was used on the mobo, not be the socket that the chip used.
March 18, 2006 9:24:42 PM

Quote:
Although the CPU's you are trying to compare heve the same Toledo Core (and this applys to all cores and manufactures) The Opteron DOES NOT compare dirrectly to the Athlon 64, FX or X2 CPU's. The one thing that everyone seems to be missing here is the Instruction Set of the CPU's. Server based processors carry a different set of resident instructions then all destop processors. They are not designed for resident handling of many of the processes utililized in gaming. Yes, they will run most games quite well. However, the bulk of it's 'horsepower' sits idol while it parcels out opperations to the rest of the system in a game enviromrnt. While in the same enviroment, the desktop CPU's such as the FX handle this operations themselves.


1. What are the differences in the implemented instruction set of the Athlon64 FX-60 and the Opteron with the same (Toledo) core?
2. How do the Opteron parcels out operations to the rest of the system, what operations are that, what is the rest of the ystem and what is processing them?


After produced, chips are beeing tested and those who have passed the test are divided in quality classes depending on their ability to run stable at higher freqfency and lower voltage.
From the best cores, Opterons are made. They are suposed to process a lot of data, 24 hours a day. For stability, the Opterons are clocked less than their maximum at the current voltage and becouse of this they are so overclockable. For aditional stability and avoid of memory operation errors, the s940 Opterons are using Registered ECC buffered DDR, while the s939 are using unbuffered/ECC. Only the Opteron 2xx and 8xx have more than 1 HTT link enabled(each HTT link provides up to 8GB/s data transfer, the 2xx have 2 and teh 8xx have 3 links), while the 1xx and all other K8 processors have only 1.
From the next quality class, the AthlonFX are made. Games are CPU-power hungry apps and they are exploatating almost all the CPU resources, so stability again is an isue. The fully unlocked multiplier is an overclocking adventage over the rest K8 CPUs. Most of them are unlocked for lower multipliers or totaly locked(as the Semprons which are not supporting CNQ).
From this class are made the Turion64s also. They are power concerned, so stability at lower voltage is needed.
The remaining chips are for the Athlon64/64-X2 and the Sempron.

All the K8 with same cores on the same "the rest of the system"(mainboard, ram, etc.) and same clock are performing same.
March 19, 2006 6:50:23 AM

He is write, and that is why they can aggregate multiple dual-channel memory controllers performance. (eg: 6.4 GB/sec x 4 nodes = 25.6 GB/sec)

As you can see from:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...
; they have more HyperTransport Links, but only on the Opteron 200 series and Opteron 800 series.

You can then view the presentations at:
http://multicore.amd.com
; for a better overall picture as to why they do this, and why they only do it on the 200 and 800 series Opterons.

Opterons 100 series on Socket 939 are explained here:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...
; As they (well the Socket 939 chipset platforms) do not support Registered ECC memory, only Unbuffered (ECC or non-ECC) memory.

Opteron 100 series on Socket 940 only really differ in the Registered (ECC is optional on both Reg and Unbuffered DIMMs btw) memory requirement, and thus total price, and maximum installable memory is higher using Registered sticks.

The entire Opteron 100 series (both s939 and s940) share the same HyperTransport setup as the current Athlon 64 series of processors do.
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