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PC gurus please look at this problem

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  • Components
Last response: in Components
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March 18, 2006 3:28:58 AM

This is really really strang problem, I have been trying all the way to fix it, none of them worked. I had DIY experience for over 6 years, but I think only the real pc gurus can explain it.

Here is my pc's symptom: Boot to safe mode, you can shut off the pc; but boot normally, even none of any drivers is loaded (I mean right after system is installed without Video driver, audio driver ect), "shut off" will always lead to reboot, and I have to shut it off manually on power during posting. This is very annoyed problem, and it is very bad to my pc. The only thing I can think about are some conflicts among my hardware, but I can not figure it out. Anyone could have a clue? I will cheer for you. You are the real guru.

Here is my pc: p4 2.0G/1G ram/160G HD/cd-rw & dvd-rw/intel 848 MB, run win2k. Thanks

More about : gurus problem

March 18, 2006 7:23:34 AM

I don't really understand what you're asking. If you could re-word it and number your questions I could better help you.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 18, 2006 7:40:58 AM

OK, basically, i can not shut off my pc, shut off=reboot, so I have to shut it off manually on power botton, but I can shut it off if I boot it to safe mode.

Thank you for your time.

Quote:
I don't really understand what you're asking. If you could re-word it and number your questions I could better help you.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
Related resources
March 18, 2006 7:46:39 AM

joke deleted
March 18, 2006 7:51:02 AM

Sorry, I don't think you are helping me.

Quote:


0. Get an AMD64 939 :-D

1. Get Linux

Have a nice day! :D 
March 18, 2006 7:54:18 AM

Are you saying that every time you tell the system to shut down, it reboots?

If so, make sure you have ACPI (I think thats the accronym) enabled, and your power options set in the control panel.

I had the problem I think you have and I found the answer by googling

If it's something else, I agree with MMM, please speeel owt moar cleeerlee

:) 
March 18, 2006 7:54:31 AM

What you mean?

Quote:
cat /dev/null > /dev/sda
March 18, 2006 7:54:54 AM

Quote:
OK, basically, i can not shut off my pc, shut off=reboot, so I have to shut it off manually on power botton, but I can shut it off if I boot it to safe mode.

Thank you for your time.

I don't really understand what you're asking. If you could re-word it and number your questions I could better help you.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time


Okay, so when you boot into Windows normally, if you select Start => Shutdown, it reboots the machine, and if you boot into Safe Mode, than you can shutdown normally? This may be a problem with APM/ACPI, what motherboard are you running and what version of WIN2K?

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 18, 2006 7:55:02 AM

shutdown -s
March 18, 2006 7:57:11 AM

Quote:
shutdown -s


shutdown -s -m \COMP is better ;) .

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 18, 2006 7:59:11 AM

Quote:
shutdown -s


shutdown -s -m COMP is better ;) .

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

LOL

:lol: 

shutdown -hf 0; = better
March 18, 2006 8:03:19 AM

Thank you, actually I tried, it did not help. You know, I can shut it down if booted to safe mood. This is really strang. If there is a problem with ACPI, I should not shut down either in safe mode, right?


Quote:
Are you saying that every time you tell the system to shut down, it reboots?

If so, make sure you have ACPI (I think thats the accronym) enabled, and your power options set in the control panel.

I had the problem I think you have and I found the answer by googling

If it's something else, I agree with MMM, please speeel owt moar cleeerlee

:) 
March 18, 2006 8:04:24 AM

Quote:
Thank you, actually I tried, it did not help. You know, I can shut it down if booted to safe mood. This is really strang. If there is a problem with ACPI, I should not shut down either in safe mode, right?


Are you saying that every time you tell the system to shut down, it reboots?

If so, make sure you have ACPI (I think thats the accronym) enabled, and your power options set in the control panel.

I had the problem I think you have and I found the answer by googling

If it's something else, I agree with MMM, please speeel owt moar cleeerlee

:) 


Read my post, tell me what mobo you have and what version of Windoze 2000 you're running.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 18, 2006 8:05:00 AM

MSI 848, win2k professional w/ sp4


Quote:
OK, basically, i can not shut off my pc, shut off=reboot, so I have to shut it off manually on power botton, but I can shut it off if I boot it to safe mode.

Thank you for your time.

I don't really understand what you're asking. If you could re-word it and number your questions I could better help you.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time


Okay, so when you boot into Windows normally, if you select Start => Shutdown, it reboots the machine, and if you boot into Safe Mode, than you can shutdown normally? This may be a problem with APM/ACPI, what motherboard are you running and what version of WIN2K?

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 18, 2006 8:06:45 AM

Wow. 3 replies before I had finished. Totally owned...

Try reinstalling your motherboard drivers. Sounds like a power management issue to my fragile little mind.
March 18, 2006 8:09:53 AM

Quote:
Wow. 3 replies before I had finished. Totally owned...

Try reinstalling your motherboard drivers. Sounds like a power management issue to my fragile little mind.


I agree. Though if this was Windows 2000 Server, it would most definately be a ACPI problem, as Windows 2000 Pro uses APM and W2K Server uses ACPI IIRC. Make sure you have the latest BIOS and drivers installed, if all else fails, reformat.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 18, 2006 9:09:04 AM

Thank you guys all. Already did, new bios 2/9/2006, new driver, also reformatted, and did clean install, all failed, the sympton is still there. Any more suggestion.
March 18, 2006 9:30:56 AM

Quote:
shutdown -s


shutdown -s -m COMP is better ;) .

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

LOL

:lol: 

shutdown -hf 0; = better

Err..

su
password:

shutdown -h -t now

8O . o O (now?)

About the ACPI... perhaps it is disabled in the Bios?
I remember my system freaking out on shutdowns when it was disabled... or was I freaking out? <bah long time ago>
March 18, 2006 1:43:10 PM

Quote:
Thank you guys all. Already did, new bios 2/9/2006, new driver, also reformatted, and did clean install, all failed, the sympton is still there. Any more suggestion.


Can you look inside your motherboards BIOS and write down all the settings it gives you for Power, APM, ACPI, or anything related to them?

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 18, 2006 2:16:42 PM

linux_o, dont u dare say a word.

I have the sameboard (in two machines) and had the same problem. One of the things I did was use a bootable linux (knoppix) in order to troubleshoot the mobo. The strange is that i was only having the problem with one board. I found that the one one that had your same problem didnt exist in linux for some reason :roll: . Even stranger is that when I swapped my PSU (from my one machine that did work Antec True) the problem resolved (strange).
March 18, 2006 2:18:15 PM

Quote:
I found that the one one that had your same problem didnt exist in linux for some reason :roll: . Even stranger is that when I swapped my PSU (from my one machine that did work Antec True) the problem resolved (strange).


That almost guarantees it's a problem with ACPI/APM.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 19, 2006 12:17:46 AM

From AMI BIOS, in Power Management Features, ACPI standly state: S1/POS; Power Management/ APM: Enabled. You know, I tried both enable it and disable it, all the same.

So, I think it has to be the difference between safe mode and normal. Could you guys know what is major difference driver loading between them. I know the VGA driver is not loaded, but I know it is not the reason. Thanks

Quote:
Thank you guys all. Already did, new bios 2/9/2006, new driver, also reformatted, and did clean install, all failed, the sympton is still there. Any more suggestion.


Can you look inside your motherboards BIOS and write down all the settings it gives you for Power, APM, ACPI, or anything related to them?

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 19, 2006 12:20:43 AM

Oh, you run to the same problem. Did you mean it can be solved by changing PSU. Could you explain more indetail. Thanks

Quote:
linux_o, dont u dare say a word.

I have the sameboard (in two machines) and had the same problem. One of the things I did was use a bootable linux (knoppix) in order to troubleshoot the mobo. The strange is that i was only having the problem with one board. I found that the one one that had your same problem didnt exist in linux for some reason :roll: . Even stranger is that when I swapped my PSU (from my one machine that did work Antec True) the problem resolved (strange).
March 19, 2006 1:05:16 AM

I am looking at the manpage for shutdown and do not see a -s or -m flag anywhere. I have -atkrhznfFc listed as valid options. What are -m and -s for?
March 19, 2006 1:38:32 AM

Go to CMD windows, type shutdown /?, all the information is there.

Quote:
I am looking at the manpage for shutdown and do not see a -s or -m flag anywhere. I have -atkrhznfFc listed as valid options. What are -m and -s for?
March 19, 2006 1:41:00 AM

Quote:
I am looking at the manpage for shutdown and do not see a -s or -m flag anywhere. I have -atkrhznfFc listed as valid options. What are -m and -s for?



I was kidding :-D

This is the Linux shutdown:
[code:1:08f6261c2b]
/sbin/shutdown [-t sec] [-arkhncfF] time [warning-message]

/sbin/shutdown
Usage: shutdown [-akrhfnc] [-t secs] time [warning message]
-a: use /etc/shutdown.allow
-k: don't really shutdown, only warn.
-r: reboot after shutdown.
-h: halt after shutdown.
-f: do a 'fast' reboot (skip fsck).
-F: Force fsck on reboot.
-n: do not go through "init" but go down real fast.
-c: cancel a running shutdown.
-t secs: delay between warning and kill signal.
** the "time" argument is mandatory! (try "now") **

[/code:1:08f6261c2b]

And this is the Windoze shutdown:

[code:1:08f6261c2b]
Usage: shutdown [-i | -l | -s | -r | -a] [-f] [-m \computername] [-t xx] [-c "comment"] [-d up:xx:yy]


No args Display this message (same as -?)
-i Display GUI interface, must be the first option
-l Log off (cannot be used with -m option)
-s Shutdown the computer
-r Shutdown and restart the computer
-a Abort a system shutdown
-m \computername Remote computer to shutdown/restart/abort
-t xx Set timeout for shutdown to xx seconds
-c "comment" Shutdown comment (maximum of 127 characters)
-f Forces running applications to close without war
ning
-d [p]:xx:yy The reason code for the shutdown
u is the user code
p is a planned shutdown code
xx is the major reason code (positive integer less than 256)

yy is the minor reason code (positive integer less than 65536)

[/code:1:08f6261c2b]


I prefer the Linux / BSD / Unix one of course :lol: 
March 19, 2006 1:42:42 AM

Quote:
What you mean?

cat /dev/null > /dev/sda



Linux / BSD / Unix joke.

Don't try it.
March 19, 2006 1:42:49 AM

Just a little more information. When I do shutdown -s in start =>run, it give me "now, it is safe to shut down". then I push the power button for a few seconds, shut it down. It looks like I am going back to win95 age. Really sad, really just curious, why it can do in safe mode, but not in normal. Strang!!!
March 19, 2006 1:46:00 AM

Quote:
Just a little more information. When I do shutdown -s in start =>run, it give me "now, it is safe to shut down". then I push the power button for a few seconds, shut it down. It looks like I am going back to win95 age. Really sad, really just curious, why it can do in safe mode, but not in normal. Strang!!!



When windows shows that it means it can't shutdown your PC by itself so it's either on crack and or your APM / ACPI is not working quite right.
March 19, 2006 2:08:39 AM

Oh, I thought you were talking about the Linux shutdown command: /sbin/shutdown as you were talking to linux_0 and for some reason I think that he doesn't run Windows :D  I didn't realize that you were talking about the Windows one or even that there *was* a Windows shutdown command.
March 19, 2006 2:11:16 AM

That would replace the first SCSI/SATA HDD with a fake null-output device if I am not mistaken. Ouch!
March 19, 2006 2:11:22 AM

So, any idea about the solution.

Now, after trying all these ways, I am more intending to think that my msi848p mb somehow conflicts with the win2k APM/ACPI driver, or with my PSU. And in safe mode, system does not load the driver, so it can do it. But, I still can not pursuade myself this is it. Again, it is so strange problem that I never heard.

Quote:
Just a little more information. When I do shutdown -s in start =>run, it give me "now, it is safe to shut down". then I push the power button for a few seconds, shut it down. It looks like I am going back to win95 age. Really sad, really just curious, why it can do in safe mode, but not in normal. Strang!!!



When windows shows that it means it can't shutdown your PC by itself so it's either on crack and or your APM / ACPI is not working quite right.
March 19, 2006 2:35:42 AM

Quote:
So, any idea about the solution.

Now, after trying all these ways, I am more intending to think that my msi848p mb somehow conflicts with the win2k APM/ACPI driver, or with my PSU. And in safe mode, system does not load the driver, so it can do it. But, I still can not pursuade myself this is it. Again, it is so strange problem that I never heard.

Just a little more information. When I do shutdown -s in start =>run, it give me "now, it is safe to shut down". then I push the power button for a few seconds, shut it down. It looks like I am going back to win95 age. Really sad, really just curious, why it can do in safe mode, but not in normal. Strang!!!



When windows shows that it means it can't shutdown your PC by itself so it's either on crack and or your APM / ACPI is not working quite right.


http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=848...

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=848...

The board supports both ACPI and APM.

I suspect 2000 is confused, broken or both.

I believe Linux would be able to shut down.

I think XP would too.

Perhaps a Linux or BSD upgrade or XP downgrade is in order.
March 19, 2006 2:38:12 AM

Quote:
Perhaps a Linux or BSD upgrade or XP downgrade is in order.


LOL- that sounds just like one of my professors. (He actually got me introduced to Linux about two years ago.) But you know what? He is usually right.
March 19, 2006 3:07:25 AM

I agree, winxp might be a way. In fact, I have been using win2k for quite a while, I really like it, and i also set winxp to win2k looking when I log in to my account in school library. Well, I think I will buy a winxp from school, and try it, see if it can solve it.

I also send a email to msi technique support, see what they can come up with.

Thanks all very much for trying to helping me. I think this maybe never figured out.
March 19, 2006 3:32:04 AM

Go into Device Manager,

View Devices by type

<Name of PC>
- Computer branch
-- <What does it list under the computer branch ?>

Can you uninstall that and reboot ?

Can you 'upgrade' it (advanced installation, not auto) to something else ?

Have you got APIC (vs PIC) enabled in the BIOS (View Devices by Type, and if there are only 16 IRQs listed it is PIC, if there are 24+ it is APIC).
March 19, 2006 4:27:01 AM

It says "ACPI Uniprocessor PC".

Can I uninstall it, I worry it may make it worse. But I try to update it, it says the current one is already good. Thanks you

Quote:
Go into Device Manager,

View Devices by type

<Name of PC>
- Computer branch
-- <What does it list under the computer branch ?>

Can you uninstall that and reboot ?

Can you 'upgrade' it (advanced installation, not auto) to something else ?

Have you got APIC (vs PIC) enabled in the BIOS (View Devices by Type, and if there are only 16 IRQs listed it is PIC, if there are 24+ it is APIC).
March 19, 2006 5:20:54 AM

Try uninstalling then rebooting.

Your computer isn't going to explode, and the auto re-install at next boot may fix it.

Failing that I'll recommend some chipset drivers from the Intel website. (Intel - assuming they manufactured your mainboard chipset, not CPU).

Also run a CHKDSK <drive letter:> /F on each of your drives (from the command prompt), as NTFS / MFT can do screwball things and cause shutdown problems from time to time.
March 19, 2006 5:49:54 AM

Hey, here's a shot in the dark.

Boot into Windows Safe Mode with Networking.

Go here.

Run a COMPLETE scan in Internet Explorer and ONLY Internet Explorer (I know it sucks, just do it). It will take awhile.

Let us know if anything turns up.

P.S.: I don't care if you already have antivirus. Just humor me. Thanks!
March 19, 2006 7:21:21 AM

A nice guy searched this for me: http://aumha.org/win5/a/shtdwnxp.htm

I think my problem is more likely from hardware campatibilty. It says some drivers may account. So, winxp upgrate may or may not help. But I have not lost all hope. Here I do a little test.

1. Since the safe mode is the key, ie, if in safe mode, shut-down is fine, no matter with or without network

2. So, I compare the system process between the normal and safe mode.

3. I found these three pieces are different between them, I guess they might be the reason. They are spoolsv.exe; regsvc.exe; mstask.exe, and another one is svchost.exe, which appeared several times with different PID value, but in safe mode, it only appeared once with PID value 380.

4. My questions are: any pc gurus can explain what these pieces for? Is there any way I can correct them if they were proved to be the reason, or how to prove them?

Actually, I tried to inactive them, the system won't allow me. I guess they are the core pieces, but they are the extra ones not needed for safe mode. Thanks
March 23, 2006 4:18:36 PM

i just took notice that when i change my brand from an el cheapo 480 Watt PSU, I had gotten at a OEM store for $15 to my antec the problem resolved. So in my case the problem seemed to be PSU directed cause since I havent had the problem.
March 23, 2006 5:27:21 PM

Thanks. So, in your case, the antec psu fixed the problem. Could you please tell me what kind of antec psu you got?

Quote:
i just took notice that when i change my brand from an el cheapo 480 Watt PSU, I had gotten at a OEM store for $15 to my antec the problem resolved. So in my case the problem seemed to be PSU directed cause since I havent had the problem.
March 26, 2006 7:05:38 AM

Finally, I found where the problem is. This "shut-down-reboot" problem is from my USB2.0/Fireware combo PCI card. After I disable both its USB and 1394 in device manager, the PC can be normally shut down. I got it form checking the conflict/share in system info. Here are these IRQ info when it is allowed.

IRQ 16 RADEON
IRQ 16 Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D2
IRQ 16 Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24DE
IRQ 16 VIA USB Universal Host Controller
IRQ 16 VIA OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
IRQ 18 Intel(R) 82801EB USB Universal Host Controller - 24D7
IRQ 18 VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller
IRQ 23 Intel(R) 82801EB USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 24DD
IRQ 23 Realtek RTL8139/810x Family Fast Ethernet NIC
IRQ 17 VIA USB Universal Host Controller
IRQ 17 Realtek AC'97 Audio

So, this problem seemed having nothing with the win2k, 'cause it was fine with my old i850 mb when running win2k. It is more likely from my msi i848 mb. Sometimes I need 1394 to transfer my daughter's video to pc, I hope I can find a way to fix it. Now, I can only enable it when needed, then disable it before shut-down.

I also tried to search the new driver, it seemed not help. I believe this problem should be solvable. Will you guys have any suggestion, I appreciate.
March 26, 2006 8:32:16 AM

Well... this may seem to be a pain, but I suggest, you take all the expansion cards out, execpt the video card.

Then plug one card in at a time, boot into Win2k, install drivers if needed, shut down, install the next card.

Perhaps PnP could, or you could figure out a better way of balancing the IRQ for the devices.

Or you could see if it is another device is conflicting. That way you could eliminate if it is a driver causing the conflict.

So, just having the video and USB/Firewire card installed. Though, hard to say how many onboard stuff your running.
March 26, 2006 6:54:01 PM

Thanks for your reply. Actually that usb/fireware combo card is the only additional card except video card. I test it, it is deffinitely the cause of shut-down-reboot problem.

There are 5 pci slot in my mb, now I knew pci 1 and pci 5 (this one is yellow, I checked the manual, it didn't say anything special) didn't work. So, probably I can do the other three and see if it will solve it, but it seemed not help. The reason are:

1, this card is pnp in win2k
2, this card use VIA chipsets, and I check VIA webset, it says both the 1394 driver and usb driver is lisened by microsoft, so it is pnp. VIA does provide its own usb driver, I have not yet tested it. But, if I only disable the usb, the problem is still there. So, I guess it is the whole card. It is most likely this msi i848 mb's design have this flaw.

Well, after say all the above, I am wonderring if i can manually assign the IRQ to this card, so that might aviod the conflicts. Have you guys knew that? Thanks
March 26, 2006 7:17:16 PM

How many onboard peripherals (sound, network, USB 1.1? do you use printer port/coms?) are you using and have you tried disabling all of them, then pluging in the card to see if it shuts down properly?

Then just turn them on one by one, and take note of the IRQ's from the bios as it hands it out.
March 26, 2006 7:20:16 PM

umm.... well im not sure but in windows 98 u choose wat u want to do at shutdown. for example, wen u go into shutdown at the start menu there are options like boot in msdos mode and reboot, safe mode, and just shut down. check that
March 26, 2006 8:25:14 PM

Integrated Sound, Lan and presumely supporting 8 USB 2.0 device, no printer and no parallel/com/game device. So, there actually are plenty of usb for use, and plus a 4-port usb hub. Anyway, the only thing i need from that pci card is its 1394 for transfer the vidoe.

Quote:
How many onboard peripherals (sound, network, USB 1.1? do you use printer port/coms?) are you using and have you tried disabling all of them, then pluging in the card to see if it shuts down properly?

Then just turn them on one by one, and take note of the IRQ's from the bios as it hands it out.
March 26, 2006 8:51:35 PM

Gawd.. hehe.. To bad your MB didn't come with firewire. You can free up IRQ 7/5 if you don't have a printer, and IRQ 3/4 if no com ports are used.

Just for trouble shooting purposes... I'd shut off the onboard USB then, and see if that is what is conflicting. I think that is the only advice I have to give. I would understand if you already had USB devices working off the onboard ports, and having to totally switch ports.

Looking at that IRQ with all the USB device, sure look like its taking up allot of resources.

Don't they make just firewire cards, instead of both USB and 1394 on expansion cards? Never really shopped around, but threw that question out.
!