Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

dvdpiddys challenge

Tags:
Last response: in CPUs
Share
March 18, 2006 9:16:37 PM

Last week, I made a challenge to dvdpiddy to see if he could actually stop posting for an entire weekend. In return, I would have to tell everyone how much the Intel netburst technology sucks. So, I decided to conduct a few tests here on my own for comparison. Now, this comparison is between two machines that of which, are currently available.


First off, I ran some simple tests but before I did, I set my Prescott back to stock which is 3Ghz. My opty is currently running at 2.5Ghz which still gives it a 500mhz disadvantage.

The first thing right off the bat are the temps. The opty runs at 28C idle and have never gone over 36C at load. My Intel runs at 33idle and hits around 50 under load. I do wanna note that both machines are in Chieftec Dragon cases which are identical. They both utilize the same case fans. Both coolers are zalmans but different models. Winner of this test: Opty

http://photobucket.com/albums/f16/Luminaris/630%20Scree...
http://photobucket.com/albums/f16/Luminaris/Opteron%20S...


The second thing I did was clock the startup of both machines. I'm talking from the time I hit the power button till the time I can actually start using applications. I did this three times consecutively with each machine. Intel averaged 29 seconds while the Opteron averaged 15 seconds. Winner: Opty

The third thing I did was conduct a room temperature test. I used an electronic thermostat that of which I placed in my room where all of my computers are located. It's an enclosed office and it is 14X15. The temperature normally is set to 69 degrees by the house thermostat. In starting this test, I shut off all equipment in my office. The room temperature hovered right around 70 degrees. What I did to conduct this test was turn each machine on, and let it run overnight under load using prime95. The first machine up was the opty. When starting this test, I made sure the room temp was normal (70 degrees) I closed the door and let the opty do its thing all night. I came in the next morning and the temp was at 71 degrees.

Next up was the Intel machine. Again, I made sure the temp was at 70 degrees normal temp. I shut down the opty machine and everything else was off. I let it run prime all night. I came in the next morning and found the temperature at a staggering 78 degrees in my office. That's 7 degrees higher than the opty. Draw your own conclusions on that one.

Lastly, the benchmarks. Just using 3DMark on this one. I know the 3DMark tests have been noted as being Intel biased and that inspired me to run them since I have an Intel machine. The results are not even remotely close. The opty machine uses a 7800GT while the Intel machine uses a 6800XT. I will also include a screen of the Intel when I had a 7800GT in it and it was overclocked to almost 4Ghz. Here are the results. Winner: Opty

http://photobucket.com/albums/f16/Luminaris/630%20Scree...
http://photobucket.com/albums/f16/Luminaris/Opteron%20S...

http://photobucket.com/albums/f16/Luminaris/630%20Scree...



Now I know your probably wondering why the hell i'm even posting this. Well, I think it's pretty obvious as it compares two very much talked about processors. I realize there are many factors involved and there really is no comparing the current Intel vs. AMDs current lineup. Unless you overclock the current Intel processors, there is no comparison at stock speeds or otherwise. Even if I run these tests with the Opty at stock speeds, it still beats up my Intel pretty bad. If you feel i'm wrong about that, I'd be more than happy to run the tests at stock to prove my point.

In conclusion, Intel really has nothing currently to compare against AMD. The netburst architecture is simply put, bad technology and IMO, a waste. I've been an avid Intel enthusiast for years but for now, I'll use AMD. Please do not turn this thread into a flame fest as, we have enough of those already and all I'm doing is throwing out some real world observations here. I would value your opinions though.

Love, peace and harmony to all

~Luminaris~

More about : dvdpiddys challenge

March 18, 2006 9:33:43 PM

sad thing is you were pwn3d by piddy! :p 
March 18, 2006 10:03:15 PM

Well, I like to think I was pwn3d by Intel all these years and now, i'm pwn3d by AMD :tongue:
Related resources
March 18, 2006 10:07:30 PM

Nice thread, although I find it weird how the opty annihilated the 3.8ghz prescotts CPU score, but the opty somehow got fewer 3dmarks. Very odd. Especially since you are using the same gfx card on both machines.
March 18, 2006 10:13:35 PM

Thanks man.

Yeah, I found that rather strange too. The Prescott just doesn't match up at all even in day to day use. I do everything on my opty machine now because it's just that much faster. In fact, i'm getting ready to tear my Intel machine down and put it in another case as I have it sold.

What am I going to replace it with? Another AMD machine? Nah, for now, i'm gonna replace it with my P3 Katmai core machine until the new cores roll out. I've so many machines here as it is and my centrino laptop runs so much more efficient than my Prescott does, i'll use it in place as well.
March 18, 2006 10:26:00 PM

I think its hilarious that the Prescott might actually have heated the room up. Its more of a joke when people say that.
March 19, 2006 12:22:33 AM

There is some truth to that man. For the longest time, I could never really figure out why it was so friggin hot in my office. I mean, I have a ton of equipment in here running all the time so it's only natural for it to be warm in here so I started really narrowing it down to what equipment was putting out the most heat.

Turns out, my prescott machine was the culprit and now, I don't even run it anymore as, I want to see how it's going to affect my electric bill. Now that should be interesting to see.
March 19, 2006 12:59:25 AM

This was a fantastic test. First, we compared a single core Intel chip versus a dual core AMD chip. Then, we did some benchmarks that never prove anything at nearly the same clock speed >:o  Luminaris? i thought you were an Intel fan...you should've let DVDpiddy talk all weekend so everybody could realize how pointless half of his tests are. anyway, netburst does suck, i think you should re-do it with a P'D' 9xx and oc them both...I'd like that :D 
March 19, 2006 1:18:34 AM

Truth be it known, I have my PC in the smallest room of the house (10x16) and only one A/C vent with two windows.
I ran a Prescott 3200 for 2 years, and it got hot at times!
So, I upgraded to a Opteron 175 and at same time replaced my home A/C unit from a 4 ton to a 4.5 ton plus upgraded ductwork for larger line to room.
Well I have more air, but room still gets warm... Prescott or AMD... and that is the truth...
I was hoping with all the hoopla about AMD being cooler, I too might feel it, but not much difference even with an upgraded A/C unit and ducting...
March 19, 2006 1:26:34 AM

yeah your right about that but, I thought i'd give everybody a break from dvd's gazillion posts in one weekend and it worked! :lol: 

I am a fan of Intel and have been for years. The only reason I got this 630 is because everybody said, OMG they run hot. Well, it doesn't exactly run hot as the temps show, in fact, they are well within limits but, this little processor puts out enough heat to keep this room toasty and I find that rather ridiculous myself. It is a good performer I will give it that but, I don't need a heater sitting here. One thing I should point out too, I have one of those small desk fans (Duracraft tornado I think they call it) anyway, I have it sitting right next to the 630 machine. When it gets warm, I turn it on to cool me off. I've had the 630 machine off for two days straight now and I haven't had to turn the fan on once.

I also find it rather disturbing as well that Intel has basically given up hope on their current lineup anyway (meaning prescotts mainly) so therefore, I've decided to sell it. I will continue to use Intel it's just that right now, i'll use AMD as they are clearly better.
March 19, 2006 1:32:10 AM

Are you discounting my test due to scientific uncertainties?
March 19, 2006 1:35:10 AM

Quote:
The third thing I did was conduct a room temperature test. I used an electronic thermostat that of which I placed in my room where all of my computers are located. It's an enclosed office and it is 14X15. The temperature normally is set to 69 degrees by the house thermostat. In starting this test, I shut off all equipment in my office. The room temperature hovered right around 70 degrees. What I did to conduct this test was turn each machine on, and let it run overnight under load using prime95. The first machine up was the opty. When starting this test, I made sure the room temp was normal (70 degrees) I closed the door and let the opty do its thing all night. I came in the next morning and the temp was at 71 degrees.

Next up was the Intel machine. Again, I made sure the temp was at 70 degrees normal temp. I shut down the opty machine and everything else was off. I let it run prime all night. I came in the next morning and found the temperature at a staggering 78 degrees in my office. That's 7 degrees higher than the opty. Draw your own conclusions on that one.


Did you forget to read this part of my initial post? Perhaps you have an Intel sitting there putting out too much heat and is frying your brain. :lol:  Just kidding of course ...
March 19, 2006 1:38:48 AM

keep the 630 and use it as a coffee maker :) . a toasty, efficient coffee heater. overclock it for better coffee :) :) . BTW, i put my dad's prescott laptop on my lap when i'm cold. it warms me up nicely.
March 19, 2006 1:39:02 AM

Now that's a good point and something I forgot to mention as well. I use Antec TP2 in both of my machine. The Intel uses a 480watt unit while the AMD uses a 550watt unit.

When I put my hand on the back of both machines, clearly the Intels exhaust is much hotter from both the exhaust fan and the PSU. The AMD machine, the PSU exhaust is warm while the case fan is blowing cool air.
March 19, 2006 1:39:21 AM

I also switched from a 21" CRT to a 24" LCD with the Opteron upgrade...
March 19, 2006 1:56:39 AM

The air is definately warm coming out the back of the PSU and the X1800XT rear vent as well as from the LCD.
March 19, 2006 2:44:05 AM

Regarding the different boot up times:

- Was the same HDD and a fresh defragmentation run ?

- Did either machine run through other BIOSes at boot ?
- (eg: 3rd party RAID/SATA/ATA controller BIOS sitting there for 10 sec or so)

- And other obvious boot time things:
- (eg: Quick POST, vs Normal POST setting in BIOS and the like)

I don't think boot times are CPU limited in any way, with HyperThreading and boot optimiziation (there was a tool in MS website to do it) the Pentium 4's can load Windows XP very quickly.

I suspect it would be more fair to time them from the 'fading in' of the Windows XP splash screen, than including 2 potentially very different BIOS / board configurations, each with their potentical differences.

But other than that, very interesting test.
March 19, 2006 3:09:47 AM

Both machines are set to quick post in BIOS and all raid functions are disabled. I usually disable anything in the BIOS that I don't need.

The Intel machine has a Seagate 250Gig SATA drive in it while the AMD has a Western Digital Raptor 74Gig. This would seem like an advantage for the AMD machine once again but I tested a similar Seagate drive in the AMD machine and the results were not far off at all. (Just on bootup) Otherwise, the raptor proves its worth in opening up applications, games etc.
March 19, 2006 3:11:34 AM

LOL Geez, definately reminds me of when the Conroe results were displayed. Thanks for the walk down memory lane. :wink:
March 19, 2006 5:02:02 AM

Netburst architecture wasn't a complete failure. A 32 stage pipeline is insanely long, and errors in prediction slowed the chip down. By the end of Netburst intel had gotten to somewhere between 80% and 90% prediction accuracy, sureley that R&D will be leveraged and applied to their other products making them better.

Wikipedia has a facsinating article on Netburst technology.
March 19, 2006 9:00:28 AM

I would say this is an interesting test, but not really a fair one.

The conclusion I draw it, on what is not fair:

1.) Prescott is single core VS dual - stock/benchmark wise

However, OC the P4 did give it some ground to cover.

2.) Bios startups will be different.

In timing the speed of startup, I think it would have been more fair from the MS startup menu - used for dual boot OS "F8"

3.) Power requirments are different.

PSU under more stress will produce more heat.

The only good this does show... Newer technology is definately improving to be more efficient... If I could trade my P4 for an Opty for free, I'd do it :wink:
March 19, 2006 10:27:53 AM

Quote:
Now that's a good point and something I forgot to mention as well. I use Antec TP2 in both of my machine. The Intel uses a 480watt unit while the AMD uses a 550watt unit.

When I put my hand on the back of both machines, clearly the Intels exhaust is much hotter from both the exhaust fan and the PSU. The AMD machine, the PSU exhaust is warm while the case fan is blowing cool air.


The heat test might not have been fair then because i heard that lower-power PSUs will actually run hotter because they are under more stress (can somebody clarify if this is true?), where as a higher-power one is not being used to its fullest potential and will run cooler. Still, we know that the Intel's exhaust is hotter, and so would the PSU's exhaust because the Intel draws more power.That is correct sir.

I don't put much stock in the heated room scenerio, because there are so many other factors that could play into that, like sunlight, outside temp, if the door was opened, etc. However, it wouldn't suprise me if it was a bit warmer.

Also, I believe the GPU on your Prescot tends to run warmer than the 7800GT.

I realy don't get all the Intel vs AMD fighting. Do they both work? Yes. Can you do high end work and gaming on either rig? Yes. Is one a better value? Yes, but that doesn't mean the other sucks horably or one company/people who like them is/are evil.

I'm just happy they push each other to get better, as we're the ones who benifit. They need each other, not only for this push, but to keep the other honest.
March 19, 2006 10:33:37 AM

Quote:
Well it's probably just those things then and not the processor. My room gets hot too, all year round. Hot in the winter wouldn't be a problem, BUT half the time when I open my window to let in cold air it smells like poop ouside because there are so many farms around where I live. :x

I have central air with two vents in my room, and i still have to use a window air conditioner to keep my room cool. Now of course the downstairs is cold, I guess that's why it's worth the extra money to buy a split-system when you get central AC in a two-story house. Always keep thermostat set to 68F in summer but upstairs is still hot without window AC...good thing PPL only charges 9 cents per kilowatt hour!!

On a side note, what I find has helped keep the house fairly evenly heated/cooled is to open all the vents upstairs when using the AC, and open all the vents downstairs when using heat. Heat rises, cold falls.
March 19, 2006 2:20:24 PM

Pentiums definately run hot. I am wondering what solutions we are going to have for all the multicore processors of the future. Will we all switch to water cooling??
March 19, 2006 8:03:23 PM

Quote:
Now that's a good point and something I forgot to mention as well. I use Antec TP2 in both of my machine. The Intel uses a 480watt unit while the AMD uses a 550watt unit.

When I put my hand on the back of both machines, clearly the Intels exhaust is much hotter from both the exhaust fan and the PSU. The AMD machine, the PSU exhaust is warm while the case fan is blowing cool air.


The heat test might not have been fair then because i heard that lower-power PSUs will actually run hotter because they are under more stress (can somebody clarify if this is true?), where as a higher-power one is not being used to its fullest potential and will run cooler. Still, we know that the Intel's exhaust is hotter, and so would the PSU's exhaust because the Intel draws more power.
I doubt that a lower end PSU would run hotter. I upgraded from a crap ass X-Connect 500w to a very high quality 3 fan 520w Powerstream and I have to admit, that thing runs REALLY hot despite the fact my system isn't very power hungry at all.
March 19, 2006 8:28:57 PM

Well I guess it too late for Luminaris to test the 480W PSU on the opty system, to rule that out? :wink:

But then, would an Opty be just as demanding as P4 power wise?

I think not.
March 19, 2006 8:39:28 PM

I'm sure the 480 would probably run it considering it's only got one card in it.
March 19, 2006 8:45:51 PM

OOOOooo.. nother test :D 

okay 70F start

P4 = 78F - 480W PSU
Opty = 71F - 550W PSU

I'm guessing, that is if the PSU is putting off extra heat from stress..

Opty = 76F - 480W PSU


Place yer bets, Place yer bets.. of course I'm broke :cry: 
March 20, 2006 1:26:30 AM

Wow, that's pretty amazing. Prescotts do generate more heat than anything else and it just go to show that you can really cook on them! :wink:
March 20, 2006 3:08:43 AM

I think your testing has made a few performance fanboys very happy. You've proved to yourself, what they have been trying to tell you for a while.
I'm sure the idiot outside croud will find fault. After all that's what they do.
The real battle has always been about giving people options.
Let's hope that conroe, and whatever Amd has up it's sleeve, give people more options. I also hope more folks are brave enough to look beyond thier chip prejudices.
After all, it really is about getting the most for your $.
March 20, 2006 3:39:21 AM

You are right because the lower the watts, the more resistance that is created within the PSU the more resistance, the more heat, the reason why there havent been higher PSUs with higher watts is because it is harder to create a PSU that can control the flow of electricity and provide the stability, the less resistance within a PSU the less heat produced, o and heat through resistance is very inefficient.

resistance is futile. :x
March 20, 2006 3:55:19 AM

Should I be worried about a hot PSU? Room temp has increased a noticable few degrees since I switched from my X-Connect ><
March 20, 2006 4:10:54 AM

Okay, enough of the bs.
Power supplies are inefficient. The closer they run to thier rated, the more efficient they are. At any given load, the higher the rating of the psu, the more wasted energy. Wasted energy is watts. As for the watts used, well, they are watts to.
It aint rocket science.
March 20, 2006 11:59:50 AM

Yeah that's right and that's why I like to have multiple machines of all makes just to compare apples with apples. I've always known in the back of my mind that Intels current technology is not the best. Yes, I can and do overclock them to get that much more performance out of them but why should i have to?

Even then, when I do overclock the Intels, they run that much hotter and put out that much more heat. My room really got hot when I ran my prescott at 4Ghz.

Now, I've got an opteron sitting here that just blows it away no matter what speed the prescott runs. I still like Intel but man, this AMD Opteron has made a serious friend for life! :wink:
March 20, 2006 6:35:56 PM

well to this whole heat thing all I got to say is watts=heat and its a well known fact that intels use more wattage than an amd so of course the intel is gonna make more heat.

And Luminaris, just wanted to know what volts your opty is running at and what it was stock not oced.
March 20, 2006 6:45:35 PM

I'm running my opty at stock voltage. I haven't touched the voltage on it at all. That's the beauty of this thing. I'm sure I could clock it higher with higher voltage, but i'm happy with it right where it is.
March 20, 2006 7:02:23 PM

Errr... so you guys don't think the PSU had anything to do with the room temp heat?

I understand that if you have a 600W PSU, it will consume 600W regardless. But based upon its design, will determine how well it can cool itself. And if you have hot air comping out of it, I'd say the PSU is more of a heater then anything else (CPU Heat) on the system.

I still have a AMD thunderbird 1Ghz system. The PC case I brought for it a long time ago, came with a Generic PSU. I know when I use that system, things tend to heat up more, with my P4 system running with it. I know it has to do with the PSU rather then the AMD processor.

So, I bet that the 480W PSU could warm his room up without a load on the Prescott... if that is the case, by the design of the PSU.
March 20, 2006 7:03:30 PM

Definately possible...a hot PSU will overrun a hot proc's heat output =/
March 20, 2006 7:50:02 PM

so how much u selling your P4 rig for and whats in it?
March 20, 2006 9:54:25 PM

Quote:
Even then, when I do overclock the Intels, they run that much hotter and put out that much more heat. My room really got hot when I ran my prescott at 4Ghz.


I have also have a stok 3.0 Prescott at my feet, and the thing does 55º idle and 72º on Boinc. This might be an insulation prob. as I have posted before, but man... I can sure tell it's heating up my ofice :roll:

I am a beliver, Intel heats up...


__
March 20, 2006 9:58:55 PM

72C? gawd... if it is an installation problem, that heat may not be getting to your HS, and just burning the socket.

I'd get that checked out.. heh.
March 20, 2006 11:06:35 PM

Yeah I know the feeling man. I had the 630 here right next to me on the bench and I could definately feel the heat coming off of it.

I just stuck my hand on the back of my opty case and there is still nice cool air coming out of it. I've got it folding, playing a movie and surfing all at the same time too.
March 20, 2006 11:26:45 PM

Heh.. I've been folding for the past 3 days.

My CPU temps at 2.8 Ghz at full load is 57C atm. That's 2C more then his reported 55C idle. Though I don't run my PC 24 hrs a day.

My PSU exhaust is basically warm, room temp 74F. And I don't feel hardly any heat from it. Even my 2 exhaust fans below the PSU is cool, not warm.

I know if I turn off folding, the PSU exhaust will feel cooler like the exhaust coming out below it. I'm using an Antec 430w PSU.

I only have 1HD, 1DVD-Burner, LS-120 IDE, AGP 6800GS, 5 case fans, 1 slot fan, Zalman Fan VGA cooler, Stock CPU HSF, and PSU has 2 Fans.

I don't see how a Prescott can be.. that bad, unless it really taxes that PSU. :cry: 
March 20, 2006 11:34:52 PM

Well, I believe it is the processor causing most of the heat only because, my system temp stays in the red (high) I'm pretty sure it's not because of the PSU only because it has two fans, one intake and one exhaust. The air coming out of both PSUs is rather warm. I just checked both of them.

The system temp on my opty machine is nice and cool. It's not necessarily a fair comparison as, in the Intel machine, I have more hardware in it such a TV tuner card, modem, extra hard drive, 2 DVD burners and a sounblaster audigy2 ZS. I'm sure those things put out a little more heat.

On the flipside of this though, I do have a side intake fan on the Intels case so it does have an extra fan. The opty machine doesn't have one cause of the CPU cooler. It extends too far to install a side case fan.
!