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Canon Printer Cartridges -- Be Sure To Get The Right Ones!

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  • Photo
  • Canon
  • Peripherals
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Anonymous
January 5, 2005 8:22:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I already posted about my problem -- I put in new cartridges, and
suddenly the colors were messed up -- but the solution struck me as so
unexpected -- the kind of thing that could trip other people up --
that I thought it's worth having an entire separate thread.

I don't know if this can happen with other brands, but it turns out
that Canon makes printers that use identically SHAPED ink cartridges,
but where the cartridges are subtly different colors. For example,
they have plain Cyan, Yellow, and Magenta; and then they also have
PHOTO Cyan, PHOTO Yellow, and PHOTO Magenta. (They even have these
subtle shade differences for black.)

Further confusing the matter is that the listings of the printer names
and types can be similar. So, here's my sad saga. I go to the store
and look for cartridges for my i860, and I see a cartridge that looks
like the right shape, and it's for some very similar model number (I'm
not sure what it was, the i800, or the i960, something like that).
Even the model number for the cartridge itself is VERY SIMILAR,
something like 6Y (for plain yellow) and 6PY (for photo yellow).
These things are easy to miss if (like me) you are more "conceptual"
oriented than "detail" oriented.

The point is, I get it home, and it fits just fine, except now the
colors are coming out funny. Turns out, after calling Canon tech
support, that I in fact had the wrong cartridge, which is why the
colors were off.

So, the moral is, you have to be very careful to buy the exactly right
type of replacement cartridge. I can understand that Canon wants to
use the same cartridge technology in different models, since I'm sure
it saves money to not redesign the shape for each new printer. But
you'd think they'd at least label them dramatically differently.

On a plus note for Canon, Tech Support had an 800 number that worked
(800 828-4040 in the US, in case anyone needs it), was open until
midnight on a week night, no charge for the call, I got through very
quickly, and the tech support representative was reasonably
intelligent and resolved the problem quickly.

The only downside was that neither the manual that came with the
printer, nor the Web site, ever suggested that the cause of the "off
color" problems might be that you are using the wrong darn ink! That
would have saved me some time....

Hope this can be of help to someone else.

Steve O.


"Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com

More about : canon printer cartridges

Anonymous
January 6, 2005 12:20:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Steven O. wrote:
> I already posted about my problem -- I put in new cartridges, and
> suddenly the colors were messed up -- but the solution struck me as so
> unexpected -- the kind of thing that could trip other people up --
> that I thought it's worth having an entire separate thread.
>
> I don't know if this can happen with other brands, but it turns out
> that Canon makes printers that use identically SHAPED ink cartridges,
> but where the cartridges are subtly different colors. For example,
> they have plain Cyan, Yellow, and Magenta; and then they also have
> PHOTO Cyan, PHOTO Yellow, and PHOTO Magenta. (They even have these
> subtle shade differences for black.)
>
> Further confusing the matter is that the listings of the printer names
> and types can be similar. So, here's my sad saga. I go to the store
> and look for cartridges for my i860, and I see a cartridge that looks
> like the right shape, and it's for some very similar model number (I'm
> not sure what it was, the i800, or the i960, something like that).
> Even the model number for the cartridge itself is VERY SIMILAR,
> something like 6Y (for plain yellow) and 6PY (for photo yellow).

I thought a 6Y was a 6Y and was suitable for any printer that uses the BCI-6
cartridges.
--
--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

My Digital World:
Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

Disclaimer:
Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.
January 6, 2005 12:41:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:20:04 GMT, Ben Thomas <nosp@m.thanks.mate> wrote:


>I thought a 6Y was a 6Y and was suitable for any printer that uses the BCI-6
>cartridges.
>--
The OP had a problem when trying to use photo carts in his Canon i860.
The Canon i860 is NOT a photo printer.

It's a case of RTFM to see what the printer is for, how to use it, and the ref.
of the cartridges.
A photo printer will accept and print with photo cartridges.
A non-photo might accept but might not print with photo cartridges.
A bit like a car with a fuel tank will accept both petrol and diesel but might
not run if the wrong fuel has been inserted.
Related resources
January 6, 2005 4:25:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:20:04 GMT, Ben Thomas <nosp@m.thanks.mate>
wrote:

>I thought a 6Y was a 6Y and was suitable for any printer that uses the BCI-6
>cartridges.

In the message that you quoted, he says "6Y (for plain yellow) and 6PY
(for photo yellow)" . So yes, a "6Y [is] a 6Y" but a 6Y is NOT a 6PY.
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 6:11:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>A bit like a car with a fuel tank will accept both petrol and diesel but might
>not run if the wrong fuel has been inserted.

Which is why they make different nozzles for diesel fuel, nozzles that
won't fit in regular car tanks, because even smart people can make
errors -- so the technology should be designed to safeguard against
them. (Same reason they put asymmetic notches on memory chips, so you
can't insert them the wrong way on your motherboard.)

Occasional user error should be anticipated in design, if not, it's
the design that's flawed, not the user.

Steve O.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:41:56 +0000, pete <pete@maildox.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:20:04 GMT, Ben Thomas <nosp@m.thanks.mate> wrote:
>
>
>>I thought a 6Y was a 6Y and was suitable for any printer that uses the BCI-6
>>cartridges.
>>--
>The OP had a problem when trying to use photo carts in his Canon i860.
>The Canon i860 is NOT a photo printer.
>
>It's a case of RTFM to see what the printer is for, how to use it, and the ref.
>of the cartridges.
>A photo printer will accept and print with photo cartridges.
>A non-photo might accept but might not print with photo cartridges.
>A bit like a car with a fuel tank will accept both petrol and diesel but might
>not run if the wrong fuel has been inserted.


"Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 6:40:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SK wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:20:04 GMT, Ben Thomas <nosp@m.thanks.mate>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I thought a 6Y was a 6Y and was suitable for any printer that uses the BCI-6
>>cartridges.
>
>
> In the message that you quoted, he says "6Y (for plain yellow) and 6PY
> (for photo yellow)" . So yes, a "6Y [is] a 6Y" but a 6Y is NOT a 6PY.
>

True. I've never seen a photo yellow cartridge before though. I though it was
only cyan and magenta that could be made different and called photo whatever.

--
--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

My Digital World:
Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

Disclaimer:
Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 4:07:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article pete says...
> The OP had a problem when trying to use photo carts in his Canon i860.
> The Canon i860 is NOT a photo printer.
>
>
You shouldn't be that emphatic that the i860 isn't a photo printer.

The OP would have had the same problem if he had been careless enough to
put PC or PM carts into the C or M slots in an i960.
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 4:07:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>The OP would have had the same problem if he had been careless enough to
>put PC or PM carts into the C or M slots in an i960.

The OP (me) was not careless, the product design and packaging were
both inadequate in failing to anticipate easily-made errors. Tell me
you've never grabbed the wrong product or item off a shelf when two
different items were none-the-less very, very similar.

Steve O.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:07:00 +1300, colinco <colincomma@yawhoo.com>
wrote:

>In article pete says...
>> The OP had a problem when trying to use photo carts in his Canon i860.
>> The Canon i860 is NOT a photo printer.
>>
>>
>You shouldn't be that emphatic that the i860 isn't a photo printer.
>
>The OP would have had the same problem if he had been careless enough to
>put PC or PM carts into the C or M slots in an i960.


"Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 6:04:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 03:11:31 GMT, Steven O. <null@null.com> wrote:

}Occasional user error should be anticipated in design, if not, it's
}the design that's flawed, not the user.

True, but I am sure Canon shares the different cartridges to save money. It
is cheaper to make and store 100 of one design (with different labels) than
to make 100 of 10 different designs. The downside is you have to read the
labels carefully...

Later,
Dave
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 8:49:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Absolutely. Human engineering for human use. We make these types of
errors, we should design product that at least makes an effort to help
us avoid them.

Art

Steven O. wrote:

>>A bit like a car with a fuel tank will accept both petrol and diesel but might
>>not run if the wrong fuel has been inserted.
>
>
> Which is why they make different nozzles for diesel fuel, nozzles that
> won't fit in regular car tanks, because even smart people can make
> errors -- so the technology should be designed to safeguard against
> them. (Same reason they put asymmetic notches on memory chips, so you
> can't insert them the wrong way on your motherboard.)
>
> Occasional user error should be anticipated in design, if not, it's
> the design that's flawed, not the user.
>
> Steve O.
>
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:41:56 +0000, pete <pete@maildox.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:20:04 GMT, Ben Thomas <nosp@m.thanks.mate> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I thought a 6Y was a 6Y and was suitable for any printer that uses the BCI-6
>>>cartridges.
>>>--
>>
>>The OP had a problem when trying to use photo carts in his Canon i860.
>>The Canon i860 is NOT a photo printer.
>>
>>It's a case of RTFM to see what the printer is for, how to use it, and the ref.
>>of the cartridges.
>>A photo printer will accept and print with photo cartridges.
>>A non-photo might accept but might not print with photo cartridges.
>>A bit like a car with a fuel tank will accept both petrol and diesel but might
>>not run if the wrong fuel has been inserted.
>
>
>
> "Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
> www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 11:13:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article Ben Thomas says...
> True. I've never seen a photo yellow cartridge before though. I though it was
> only cyan and magenta that could be made different and called photo whatever.
>
In the BCI-6 range the only "photo" colours are Photo-cyan and Photo-
magenta. In the BCI-3e range there is a BCI-3ePBk Photo-black as well as
the larger pigment cart BCI-3eBk. Canon don't have a single cart Photo-
yellow in any range.
January 6, 2005 11:13:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 20:13:02 +1300, colinco <colincomma@yawhoo.com>
wrote:

>In the BCI-6 range the only "photo" colours are Photo-cyan and Photo-
>magenta.

You are right... I just opened up my i960 since I am the idiot that
said 6PY and there was a 6PC and 6PM along with the usual 6C, 6Y, 6M &
6BK.

Regards,
SK
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 11:23:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article Steven O. says...
> The OP (me) was not careless, the product design and packaging were
> both inadequate in failing to anticipate easily-made errors. Tell me
> you've never grabbed the wrong product or item off a shelf when two
> different items were none-the-less very, very similar.
>
Canon did put a strip with the cart type eg 6BK,3eBK,6Y,6M and 6C on the
printhead carrier where you insert the carts.

One of the local brands of compatible carts has labels with rabbits,
bananas, apples etc on them so that conceptual types can remember which
one they need.
January 7, 2005 1:54:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> Absolutely. Human engineering for human use. We make these types of
> errors, we should design product that at least makes an effort to help
> us avoid them.

Yes, yes, absolutely, I agree. No animal engineering for human use! I make
these kind of errors too. We should primordially build "product" than will
"help us avoid them"! It's a must. Otherwise we're heading fast towards a
Brave New World and cake eating will never be the same again.
-----------------------------------

Art... I would have liked to understand your message, but your top posting is
downright ridiculous. I don't want to read the whole thread to see if there's
anything to get out of what you "try" to say here. Had you quoted a paragraph,
it might have given me some idea of what you're talking about.

Some things you wrote indicate you make enough sense to understand basic
nettiquette. I mean, you're not a 13 years old dimwit. What the hell is going
on? Is it your employer who forces you to top post so that only the person
you're answering to can make something of the lingo you're spewing here?

I'm dumbfounded.

GP
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 2:03:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:20:04 GMT, Ben Thomas <nosp@m.thanks.mate>
wrote:

>Steven O. wrote:
>> I already posted about my problem -- I put in new cartridges, and
>> suddenly the colors were messed up -- but the solution struck me as so
>> unexpected -- the kind of thing that could trip other people up --
>> that I thought it's worth having an entire separate thread.
>>
>> I don't know if this can happen with other brands, but it turns out
>> that Canon makes printers that use identically SHAPED ink cartridges,
>> but where the cartridges are subtly different colors. For example,
>> they have plain Cyan, Yellow, and Magenta; and then they also have
>> PHOTO Cyan, PHOTO Yellow, and PHOTO Magenta. (They even have these
>> subtle shade differences for black.)
>>
>> Further confusing the matter is that the listings of the printer names
>> and types can be similar. So, here's my sad saga. I go to the store
>> and look for cartridges for my i860, and I see a cartridge that looks
>> like the right shape, and it's for some very similar model number (I'm
>> not sure what it was, the i800, or the i960, something like that).
>> Even the model number for the cartridge itself is VERY SIMILAR,
>> something like 6Y (for plain yellow) and 6PY (for photo yellow).
>
>I thought a 6Y was a 6Y and was suitable for any printer that uses the BCI-6
>cartridges.
>--

A 6Y is a 6Y, but I'm told the regular 6Y is a pigmented ink and the
Photo cartridge (6PY) is dye based (or is it the other way around?).
Anyways, they're supposed to mix like oil and water, so if you mix and
match a Cyan 6Y, a Magenta 6PY, and a Yellow 6Y in the cartridge
cradle, you can get some extremely weird results, as the dyes could
repel each other. Normally, they'd mix to form intermediary colours
like orange, green, etc. If the inks just don't get along, that's not
going to happen.


---------------------------------------------

MCheu
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:20:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article MCheu says...
>
> A 6Y is a 6Y, but I'm told the regular 6Y is a pigmented ink and the
> Photo cartridge (6PY) is dye based (or is it the other way around?).
> Anyways, they're supposed to mix like oil and water, so if you mix and
> match a Cyan 6Y, a Magenta 6PY, and a Yellow 6Y in the cartridge
> cradle, you can get some extremely weird results,
>
Nowhere near as weird as this post. Y = yellow. All the BCI-6 ink is dye
based.
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 9:20:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 18:20:27 +1300, colinco <colincomma@yawhoo.com>
wrote:

>In article MCheu says...
>>
>> A 6Y is a 6Y, but I'm told the regular 6Y is a pigmented ink and the
>> Photo cartridge (6PY) is dye based (or is it the other way around?).
>> Anyways, they're supposed to mix like oil and water, so if you mix and
>> match a Cyan 6Y, a Magenta 6PY, and a Yellow 6Y in the cartridge
>> cradle, you can get some extremely weird results,
>>
>Nowhere near as weird as this post. Y = yellow. All the BCI-6 ink is dye
>based.

Oops. Yeah, most of that post was pretty messed. I'm responsible for
the care and feeding of 3 different brands of printers, so I'm not
always clear on the naming conventions for a particular brand or
model. I just used the naming convention a previous poster was using.

As for whether all the BCI-6 ink is dye based? Are you certain of
that? My personal printer is a Canon i560 (recent purchase, so I'm
not 100% familiar with it yet). The store clerk warned me about
mixing the photo and regular inks for the reasons I stated, so if
they're both dye based, what's the real difference then, aside from
the photo inks being $2 more per cartridge.


---------------------------------------------

MCheu
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 12:11:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

All BCI-6 ink is dye based. There is not photo yellow, just yellow. The only
designated (by name) photo inks are Photo Cyan and Photo Magenta which are
not as dark in color as the base cyan or magenta. Mixing the inks would
result in no damage to the printer but the colors would be way off. The only
pigmented ink used in Canon printers using BCI-6 cartridges is the BCI-3BK
which is used for text printing and not for photos. This cartridge isn't
used on the six color photo printers such as i950, i960, s820, etc.., but it
is used on the five cartridge models such as i860, ip4000 and four tank
models such as the i560 or ip3000.
--
Ron Cohen

"MCheu" <mpcheu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o krtt0l05m7r979brimo2ls08tk526mv66@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 18:20:27 +1300, colinco <colincomma@yawhoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>In article MCheu says...
>>>
>>> A 6Y is a 6Y, but I'm told the regular 6Y is a pigmented ink and the
>>> Photo cartridge (6PY) is dye based (or is it the other way around?).
>>> Anyways, they're supposed to mix like oil and water, so if you mix and
>>> match a Cyan 6Y, a Magenta 6PY, and a Yellow 6Y in the cartridge
>>> cradle, you can get some extremely weird results,
>>>
>>Nowhere near as weird as this post. Y = yellow. All the BCI-6 ink is dye
>>based.
>
> Oops. Yeah, most of that post was pretty messed. I'm responsible for
> the care and feeding of 3 different brands of printers, so I'm not
> always clear on the naming conventions for a particular brand or
> model. I just used the naming convention a previous poster was using.
>
> As for whether all the BCI-6 ink is dye based? Are you certain of
> that? My personal printer is a Canon i560 (recent purchase, so I'm
> not 100% familiar with it yet). The store clerk warned me about
> mixing the photo and regular inks for the reasons I stated, so if
> they're both dye based, what's the real difference then, aside from
> the photo inks being $2 more per cartridge.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> MCheu
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 5:28:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Yes, it is my employer who forces me to do it.

I'm self-employed.

Art


GP wrote:

> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> Absolutely. Human engineering for human use. We make these types of
>> errors, we should design product that at least makes an effort to help
>> us avoid them.
>
>
> Yes, yes, absolutely, I agree. No animal engineering for human use! I
> make these kind of errors too. We should primordially build "product"
> than will "help us avoid them"! It's a must. Otherwise we're heading
> fast towards a Brave New World and cake eating will never be the same
> again.
> -----------------------------------
>
> Art... I would have liked to understand your message, but your top
> posting is downright ridiculous. I don't want to read the whole thread
> to see if there's anything to get out of what you "try" to say here. Had
> you quoted a paragraph, it might have given me some idea of what you're
> talking about.
>
> Some things you wrote indicate you make enough sense to understand basic
> nettiquette. I mean, you're not a 13 years old dimwit. What the hell is
> going on? Is it your employer who forces you to top post so that only
> the person you're answering to can make something of the lingo you're
> spewing here?
>
> I'm dumbfounded.
>
> GP
>
>
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 5:40:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I'm not a Canon user, but as I understand it, other than in Japan, there
is only one set of inks per printer. In Japan, they have released a new
set of longer fade resistant dye inks.

Otherwise, there is only one set of Canon dye inks, except for black,
per printer type.

The "photo" cyan and magenta inks are simply low dye load (light dye,
with a lot of extra water base) inks, while the non-photo inks are also
dye, they are full dye load (darker).

Black dye inks tend to bleed more than pigment, especially on regular
bond paper, and aren't as permanent, and tend to run when wetted. So,
in order to compete with laser output, they make a pigmented black as
well. However, that ink will not blend properly with the other inks for
photo use, so hence the black dye ink.

Art

MCheu wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 21:20:04 GMT, Ben Thomas <nosp@m.thanks.mate>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Steven O. wrote:
>>
>>>I already posted about my problem -- I put in new cartridges, and
>>>suddenly the colors were messed up -- but the solution struck me as so
>>>unexpected -- the kind of thing that could trip other people up --
>>>that I thought it's worth having an entire separate thread.
>>>
>>>I don't know if this can happen with other brands, but it turns out
>>>that Canon makes printers that use identically SHAPED ink cartridges,
>>>but where the cartridges are subtly different colors. For example,
>>>they have plain Cyan, Yellow, and Magenta; and then they also have
>>>PHOTO Cyan, PHOTO Yellow, and PHOTO Magenta. (They even have these
>>>subtle shade differences for black.)
>>>
>>>Further confusing the matter is that the listings of the printer names
>>>and types can be similar. So, here's my sad saga. I go to the store
>>>and look for cartridges for my i860, and I see a cartridge that looks
>>>like the right shape, and it's for some very similar model number (I'm
>>>not sure what it was, the i800, or the i960, something like that).
>>>Even the model number for the cartridge itself is VERY SIMILAR,
>>>something like 6Y (for plain yellow) and 6PY (for photo yellow).
>>
>>I thought a 6Y was a 6Y and was suitable for any printer that uses the BCI-6
>>cartridges.
>>--
>
>
> A 6Y is a 6Y, but I'm told the regular 6Y is a pigmented ink and the
> Photo cartridge (6PY) is dye based (or is it the other way around?).
> Anyways, they're supposed to mix like oil and water, so if you mix and
> match a Cyan 6Y, a Magenta 6PY, and a Yellow 6Y in the cartridge
> cradle, you can get some extremely weird results, as the dyes could
> repel each other. Normally, they'd mix to form intermediary colours
> like orange, green, etc. If the inks just don't get along, that's not
> going to happen.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> MCheu
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 5:49:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I think the confusion may be that Canon uses different dye colors for
different printers, but some printers can FIT cartridges from the wrong
printer.

So maybe their "Photo printers" (CcMmYK) use a different shade or
density of yellow (or other dye colors) than the printers which are not
designated as "photo" printers, (those using CMYK only - 4 ink colors)?

Just guessing...

Art


colinco wrote:

> In article MCheu says...
>
>>A 6Y is a 6Y, but I'm told the regular 6Y is a pigmented ink and the
>>Photo cartridge (6PY) is dye based (or is it the other way around?).
>>Anyways, they're supposed to mix like oil and water, so if you mix and
>>match a Cyan 6Y, a Magenta 6PY, and a Yellow 6Y in the cartridge
>>cradle, you can get some extremely weird results,
>>
>
> Nowhere near as weird as this post. Y = yellow. All the BCI-6 ink is dye
> based.
!