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Helicopter Autorotation

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Anonymous
June 7, 2005 3:27:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I figured I hadn't left enough wreckage on runways flying fixed wings and
decided to mess with the helicopters in FS2004. Have actually been able to
take off and land a few times without wiping the neighborhood and decided to
try to learn autorotations. Am having some success with the Bell 206 using
hovercontrol.com's hint about adding a little collective after lowering it
completing following engine out. However I can't get anything to work with
the Robinson 22 Beta. I was wondering if it requires different procedures
than the turbine. Do I have to disengage the clutch and/or governor. The FS
manual is pretty sparse on those details. I've been simulating engine out
by shutting off the fuel valve and then proceeding to sink like a rock no
matter what I do with the available controls. Does anyone know what the
real life procedure is for the Robinson's in and engine failure situation?
or a way to bring it back in one piece in FS2004? Thanks
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 9:53:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

John,

why not join Hovercontrol at http://hovercontrol.com these Pilots are
flying mostly Helicopters and can answer probably just about any question
you have.

They also have online training programs setup I believe.

And best of all it is FREE to join and fly online with them.
They have a lot of Helicopter Downloads of all models including the H-60,
CH-46, CH-53E, CH-47 and the SkyCrane just to name a few.

Harry
"John Jung-Zimmerman" <jungzimm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11abipc246nr9fe@corp.supernews.com...
>I figured I hadn't left enough wreckage on runways flying fixed wings and
> decided to mess with the helicopters in FS2004. Have actually been able
> to
> take off and land a few times without wiping the neighborhood and decided
> to
> try to learn autorotations. Am having some success with the Bell 206
> using
> hovercontrol.com's hint about adding a little collective after lowering it
> completing following engine out. However I can't get anything to work
> with
> the Robinson 22 Beta. I was wondering if it requires different procedures
> than the turbine. Do I have to disengage the clutch and/or governor. The
> FS
> manual is pretty sparse on those details. I've been simulating engine out
> by shutting off the fuel valve and then proceeding to sink like a rock no
> matter what I do with the available controls. Does anyone know what the
> real life procedure is for the Robinson's in and engine failure situation?
> or a way to bring it back in one piece in FS2004? Thanks
>
>
June 8, 2005 3:52:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

John Jung-Zimmerman wrote:

> I figured I hadn't left enough wreckage on runways flying fixed wings and
> decided to mess with the helicopters in FS2004. Have actually been able to
> take off and land a few times without wiping the neighborhood and decided to
> try to learn autorotations. Am having some success with the Bell 206 using
> hovercontrol.com's hint about adding a little collective after lowering it
> completing following engine out. However I can't get anything to work with
> the Robinson 22 Beta. I was wondering if it requires different procedures
> than the turbine. Do I have to disengage the clutch and/or governor. The FS
> manual is pretty sparse on those details. I've been simulating engine out
> by shutting off the fuel valve and then proceeding to sink like a rock no
> matter what I do with the available controls. Does anyone know what the
> real life procedure is for the Robinson's in and engine failure situation?
> or a way to bring it back in one piece in FS2004? Thanks
>
>

You've discovered my single best even flying helicopters AND fixed wing,
switching off the fuel valve. You are right about adding a bit of
collective after lowering it full down after the engine failure,
otherwise the rpm drops quickly.

Here are a couple picture strips showing some engine failures. I know I
have some somewhere of autos in TH-55's and the R22. I'll keep looking.

Helicopters
http://flightsims.vze.com/autorotation

http://img123.echo.cx/my.php?image=autopanelgoodauto023...

http://img122.echo.cx/my.php?image=ah1autostretch021yh....

Fixed Wing
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs30&d=05211&f=engine_failure01.j...

--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Related resources
June 8, 2005 5:03:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

boB wrote:

>
> You've discovered my single best even flying helicopters AND fixed wing,
> switching off the fuel valve.
should have been: single best event

I have tried and tried and the R22 drops straight down when the engine
quits. The panel shows 60 or 70 knots airspeed but the aircraft is not
flying forward.

--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 7:48:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Thanks, Bob. At least I know I'm not alone in this experience. Sorry I
couldn't respond sooner but newsgroups are broken on my ISP and had to wait
until I got a chance at work to respond. Think I'll try slowing down the
simulation and seeing if I can do anything to keep the rotor RPM's up when
the engine goes out. If I can't get something to work, I'll just do auto's
in the Bell.


> I have tried and tried and the R22 drops straight down when the engine
> quits. The panel shows 60 or 70 knots airspeed but the aircraft is not
> flying forward.
>
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 11:04:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

John

There is a known problem with FS-2004 and autorotation in the helicopters.
if you reduce the power to idle then the aircraft drops like a lead weight.

As I wrote in a previous reply, if you contact Hovercontrol.com and go to
their forum, ask any of the pilots there. They normally have no problem
helping someone learn to fly the helicopters.

And again, to join Hovercontrol.com is "FREE".

Harry

"John Jung-Zimmerman" <jungzimm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11ajv5lr2fpjkc2@corp.supernews.com...
> Thanks, Bob. At least I know I'm not alone in this experience. Sorry I
> couldn't respond sooner but newsgroups are broken on my ISP and had to
> wait
> until I got a chance at work to respond. Think I'll try slowing down the
> simulation and seeing if I can do anything to keep the rotor RPM's up when
> the engine goes out. If I can't get something to work, I'll just do
> auto's
> in the Bell.
>
>
>> I have tried and tried and the R22 drops straight down when the engine
>> quits. The panel shows 60 or 70 knots airspeed but the aircraft is not
>> flying forward.
>>
>
>
June 11, 2005 3:38:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

phrgflyer wrote:

> John
>
> There is a known problem with FS-2004 and autorotation in the helicopters.
> if you reduce the power to idle then the aircraft drops like a lead weight.
>
> As I wrote in a previous reply, if you contact Hovercontrol.com and go to
> their forum, ask any of the pilots there. They normally have no problem
> helping someone learn to fly the helicopters.
>
> And again, to join Hovercontrol.com is "FREE".
>
> Harry
>

Hello Harry,

His problem is not how to manipulate the collective (throttle) to
maintain rotor RPM, it's getting the R22 to autorotate at least as well
as the Bell helicopters. If you know a way to help him, please do.
Don't just assume everyone wants to join Hovercontrol.

boB
HC779WA

--


U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 7:32:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

boB,

If you read my note it says that there is a vast amount of knowledge at
hovercontrol and he could probably get an answer there.

He does not have to join.

Harry

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:Mvpqe.39115$j51.12527@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> phrgflyer wrote:
>
>> John
>>
>> There is a known problem with FS-2004 and autorotation in the
>> helicopters. if you reduce the power to idle then the aircraft drops like
>> a lead weight.
>>
>> As I wrote in a previous reply, if you contact Hovercontrol.com and go to
>> their forum, ask any of the pilots there. They normally have no problem
>> helping someone learn to fly the helicopters.
>>
>> And again, to join Hovercontrol.com is "FREE".
>>
>> Harry
>>
>
> Hello Harry,
>
> His problem is not how to manipulate the collective (throttle) to maintain
> rotor RPM, it's getting the R22 to autorotate at least as well as the Bell
> helicopters. If you know a way to help him, please do. Don't just assume
> everyone wants to join Hovercontrol.
>
> boB
> HC779WA
>
> --
>
>
> U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
> Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
June 12, 2005 12:53:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

phrgflyer wrote:
> boB,
>
> If you read my note it says that there is a vast amount of knowledge at
> hovercontrol and he could probably get an answer there.
>
> He does not have to join.
>
> Harry
>
> "boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
> news:Mvpqe.39115$j51.12527@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>>phrgflyer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>There is a known problem with FS-2004 and autorotation in the
>>>helicopters. if you reduce the power to idle then the aircraft drops like
>>>a lead weight.
>>>
>>>As I wrote in a previous reply, if you contact Hovercontrol.com and go to
>>>their forum, ask any of the pilots there. They normally have no problem
>>>helping someone learn to fly the helicopters.
>>>
>>>And again, to join Hovercontrol.com is "FREE".
>>>
>>>Harry
>>>
>>
>>Hello Harry,
>>
>>His problem is not how to manipulate the collective (throttle) to maintain
>>rotor RPM, it's getting the R22 to autorotate at least as well as the Bell
>>helicopters. If you know a way to help him, please do. Don't just assume
>>everyone wants to join Hovercontrol.
>>
>>boB
>>HC779WA
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
>>Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
>
>
>

My mistake. There is a vast amount of knowledge there.

--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 4:46:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Harry,

Thanks for the lead to hovercontrol. I have a limited amount of time that I
can spend on line and have been enjoying lurking in this n.g. I'm not quite
ready to jump into another membership that will eat up my valuable on line
time. I did notice that there is no search function for the forums and
message groups at Hovercontrol. That's a real liability; but I did grab a
couple of great articles that have helped with general information.

When I slowed the sim rate to 1/4, I was able to put the Robinson safely on
the ground from 1500 feet. It did maintain forward motion and there was
enough rotor momentum left to cushion the controlled crash. I think this
was only due to the way slowing the rate seems to work. It just took the
rotor rpms a lot longer, proportionally(sp?) to decay; there really was no
way to keep the rpm's up where they should have been.



"phrgflyer" <1harryj@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:o Zoqe.114304$J25.104278@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> John
>
> There is a known problem with FS-2004 and autorotation in the helicopters.
> if you reduce the power to idle then the aircraft drops like a lead
weight.
>
> As I wrote in a previous reply, if you contact Hovercontrol.com and go to
> their forum, ask any of the pilots there. They normally have no problem
> helping someone learn to fly the helicopters.
>
> And again, to join Hovercontrol.com is "FREE".
>
> Harry
>
> "John Jung-Zimmerman" <jungzimm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:11ajv5lr2fpjkc2@corp.supernews.com...
> > Thanks, Bob. At least I know I'm not alone in this experience. Sorry I
> > couldn't respond sooner but newsgroups are broken on my ISP and had to
> > wait
> > until I got a chance at work to respond. Think I'll try slowing down
the
> > simulation and seeing if I can do anything to keep the rotor RPM's up
when
> > the engine goes out. If I can't get something to work, I'll just do
> > auto's
> > in the Bell.
> >
> >
> >> I have tried and tried and the R22 drops straight down when the engine
> >> quits. The panel shows 60 or 70 knots airspeed but the aircraft is not
> >> flying forward.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 10:07:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In the Robinson, for a successful autorotation, you must maintain a high
rate of forward speed, and dump the excess speed with a flare just before
touchdown...


"John Jung-Zimmerman" <jungzimm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11arhke2h8ogc67@corp.supernews.com...
> Harry,
>
> Thanks for the lead to hovercontrol. I have a limited amount of time that
I
> can spend on line and have been enjoying lurking in this n.g. I'm not
quite
> ready to jump into another membership that will eat up my valuable on line
> time. I did notice that there is no search function for the forums and
> message groups at Hovercontrol. That's a real liability; but I did grab
a
> couple of great articles that have helped with general information.
>
> When I slowed the sim rate to 1/4, I was able to put the Robinson safely
on
> the ground from 1500 feet. It did maintain forward motion and there was
> enough rotor momentum left to cushion the controlled crash. I think this
> was only due to the way slowing the rate seems to work. It just took the
> rotor rpms a lot longer, proportionally(sp?) to decay; there really was no
> way to keep the rpm's up where they should have been.
>
>
>
> "phrgflyer" <1harryj@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:o Zoqe.114304$J25.104278@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> > John
> >
> > There is a known problem with FS-2004 and autorotation in the
helicopters.
> > if you reduce the power to idle then the aircraft drops like a lead
> weight.
> >
> > As I wrote in a previous reply, if you contact Hovercontrol.com and go
to
> > their forum, ask any of the pilots there. They normally have no problem
> > helping someone learn to fly the helicopters.
> >
> > And again, to join Hovercontrol.com is "FREE".
> >
> > Harry
> >
> > "John Jung-Zimmerman" <jungzimm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:11ajv5lr2fpjkc2@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Thanks, Bob. At least I know I'm not alone in this experience. Sorry
I
> > > couldn't respond sooner but newsgroups are broken on my ISP and had to
> > > wait
> > > until I got a chance at work to respond. Think I'll try slowing down
> the
> > > simulation and seeing if I can do anything to keep the rotor RPM's up
> when
> > > the engine goes out. If I can't get something to work, I'll just do
> > > auto's
> > > in the Bell.
> > >
> > >
> > >> I have tried and tried and the R22 drops straight down when the
engine
> > >> quits. The panel shows 60 or 70 knots airspeed but the aircraft is
not
> > >> flying forward.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
June 14, 2005 12:16:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Lakeview Bill wrote:

> In the Robinson, for a successful autorotation, you must maintain a high
> rate of forward speed, and dump the excess speed with a flare just before
> touchdown...
>
>

Hi Bill,

How much is high forward speed?

--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 2:04:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

From ASA's Robinson R22 Pilot's Guide:

In the event of an engine failure, lower the collective and adopt an
attitude to maintain 65 knots, which results in a steep glide of 1500 - 2000
fpm. At about 40 feet AGL, apply aft cyclic to flare the helicopter; just
before ground contact move the cyclic forward to level the skids and raise
the collective to cushion the landing.

For a power-on autorotation, I believe you have to turn the governor switch
(on the collective) off, but I'm not sure on that. I know that there is a
somewhat "unusual" step; perhaps someone else can correct me on this if
necessary.

Good luck...


"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:o Qlre.44045$PR6.2699@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Lakeview Bill wrote:
>
> > In the Robinson, for a successful autorotation, you must maintain a high
> > rate of forward speed, and dump the excess speed with a flare just
before
> > touchdown...
> >
> >
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> How much is high forward speed?
>
> --
>
> (Smiling) boB,
> SAG 70
>
> U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
> Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
June 14, 2005 7:17:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Lakeview Bill wrote:

> From ASA's Robinson R22 Pilot's Guide:
>
> In the event of an engine failure, lower the collective and adopt an
> attitude to maintain 65 knots, which results in a steep glide of 1500 - 2000
> fpm. At about 40 feet AGL, apply aft cyclic to flare the helicopter; just
> before ground contact move the cyclic forward to level the skids and raise
> the collective to cushion the landing.
>
> For a power-on autorotation, I believe you have to turn the governor switch
> (on the collective) off, but I'm not sure on that. I know that there is a
> somewhat "unusual" step; perhaps someone else can correct me on this if
> necessary.
>
> Good luck...
>

I tried turning the gov off and increased airspeed to over 100K and the
R22 dropped straight down. I'm tired, I did snap some pictures, but all
they show is rotor decay, indicated airspeed from 60 to over 100K while
falling straight down, and a manifold pressure of 28.

I tried the trick of increasing pitch to maintain rotor RPM which the
Bell helicopters need, but no joy.

--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
June 15, 2005 2:03:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

phrgflyer wrote:

> boB,
>
> If you read my note it says that there is a vast amount of knowledge at
> hovercontrol and he could probably get an answer there.
>
> He does not have to join.
>
> Harry
>

Harry. I just received this message again. Didn't I answer it already?


--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 3:53:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:B%rre.44946$PR6.34186@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> I tried turning the gov off and increased airspeed to over 100K and the
> R22 dropped straight down. I'm tired, I did snap some pictures, but all
> they show is rotor decay, indicated airspeed from 60 to over 100K while
> falling straight down, and a manifold pressure of 28.
>
> I tried the trick of increasing pitch to maintain rotor RPM which the
> Bell helicopters need, but no joy.

I'm convinced the R22's model is seriously broken in this regard. Above the
stated airspeed (65kts?) rotation should be maintained under the same
principles that a gyrocopter flies, i.e. that the forward airspeed causes
the rotor to turn and lift is gained. It just doesn't seem to be the case
in FS's R22. I've had an instructor demonstrate a 540 degree auto landing
in an R22 during a lesson and as you say, that did necessitate a steep (2000
fpm) descent to maintain the required airspeed, but that simply doesn't work
in FS. However, disengaing the clutch does seem to force it to behave more
appropriately. I've successfully auto'd from 1500'. (It's almost like
they've not modelled the one-way bearing on the drive output, so as the
engine speed decays it drags the rotor down with it.)

Si
Anonymous
June 16, 2005 7:42:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

BoB,
Have you tried out DodoSims new B206 with realistic turbine start
procedures? I got it today. It certainly adds a whole new dimension to
flying the Jet Ranger, watching for hot starts. They've also tweaked the
flight model a lot, adding vortex ring state. Looks like you still need to
raise the collective a bit on autos and anti-torque doesn't seem to be
modelled any better but perhaps there's nothing can be done about that by
third-party developers. Definitely worth a look, though it is a pay-ware
download. (www.dodosim.com)

Si
June 17, 2005 11:29:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Simon Robbins wrote:

> BoB,
> Have you tried out DodoSims new B206 with realistic turbine start
> procedures? I got it today. It certainly adds a whole new dimension to
> flying the Jet Ranger, watching for hot starts. They've also tweaked the
> flight model a lot, adding vortex ring state. Looks like you still need to
> raise the collective a bit on autos and anti-torque doesn't seem to be
> modelled any better but perhaps there's nothing can be done about that by
> third-party developers. Definitely worth a look, though it is a pay-ware
> download. (www.dodosim.com)
>
> Si
>
>


Not yet Si. I downloaded the manual and it's great that someone has
created a starting procedure that is actually close to a Bell 206.

There are several places which are not realistic but to make them so
would require too much more programming. So when it says you WILL get a
hot start if the starter is disengages prior to 58% N1 they are assuming
too much.

One thing I may try to help them with is some of the explanations. The
jet engine they show is a direct flow engine, like a Cobra or UH-1. The
Bell 206 has a reverse flow engine where the air from the compressor
section flows through discharge tubes back to the combustion section
where it is directed forward as the igniter and fuel nozzle create the
flame. It then flows through the N1 Turbine, then the N2 Turbine and
routed up and out of the exhaust stacks. Starting a Bell 206 with a
tail wind will give higher TOT indications but not enough to hot start.
I have all my maintenance manuals somewhere so I can send them the
actual diagrams of the c20 engine.

The Allison 250c20 - you can follow the airflow from the compressor,
through the discharge tubes, to the combustion section, then out and up
through the exhaust stacks.
http://www.gas-turbines.com/engines/allison_250c20/alli...
http://www.everettaero.com/allison.html


A real world start procedure
http://www.fergworld.com/articles/article_jetranger.php...


Go here and scroll down to the bottom (past the Me-262) and see the
straight flow through jet engine like the one they have in their manual.
http://www.enginehistory.org/gas_turbines.htm
--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 1:55:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:cZuse.42613$j51.22739@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Not yet Si. I downloaded the manual and it's great that someone has
> created a starting procedure that is actually close to a Bell 206.
>
> There are several places which are not realistic but to make them so
> would require too much more programming. So when it says you WILL get a
> hot start if the starter is disengages prior to 58% N1 they are assuming
> too much.

What about the bit about the blades getting burnt whilst slow moving during
start-up. Is that trues? I'd never heard of that.

Si
June 19, 2005 1:55:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Simon Robbins wrote:

>
> What about the bit about the blades getting burnt whilst slow moving during
> start-up. Is that trues? I'd never heard of that.
>
> Si
>
>

I think I know where that idea came from. When pre-flighting you always
wipe off the soot from the stacks that accumulates near the blade root.
But if they actually believe that is burning the blades, I wonder if I
start a rumor that the tail boom can burn up. There's as much soot there
as the rotor blades. Paul Riley is most likely laughing right now. I'm
sure he wiped his share of exhaust soot off many blades and tail booms.

--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
June 20, 2005 2:13:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Bryan wrote:

>
>
> They were talking about starting the turbines with the rotor in north south
> position ie right over the exhaust
>
>

Thanks, I thought of that this morning so you saved me the trouble of
going back and reading it. I have my 58 checklist here and can remind
them that not only does the pilot look left and right to verify the
tiedowns are removed, but during the control system checks the pilot
checks for proper response of the main rotor when moving collective full
up and back down, as well as proper movement of the blades when moving
the cyclic through it's full range of movement.

A competent pilot would never start the aircraft with the blades
directly above the exhaust stacks.

--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 21, 2005 3:01:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:4hbte.69109$6g3.29320@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> I think I know where that idea came from. When pre-flighting you always
> wipe off the soot from the stacks that accumulates near the blade root.
> But if they actually believe that is burning the blades, I wonder if I
> start a rumor that the tail boom can burn up. There's as much soot there
> as the rotor blades. Paul Riley is most likely laughing right now. I'm
> sure he wiped his share of exhaust soot off many blades and tail booms.

They said (if I remember correctly) that blades have delaminated or split
from the excess heat. (Unless I read that somewhere else recently.) I do
know that blades shouldn't be in line with the fuselage when parked unless
tied-down since wind or other rotor wash could force a stationary boom
strike, but I hadn't heard of any danger from turbine exhaust, so thanks for
clarifying that.

Si
June 21, 2005 3:01:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Simon Robbins wrote:

>
> They said (if I remember correctly) that blades have delaminated or split
> from the excess heat. (Unless I read that somewhere else recently.) I do
> know that blades shouldn't be in line with the fuselage when parked unless
> tied-down since wind or other rotor wash could force a stationary boom
> strike, but I hadn't heard of any danger from turbine exhaust, so thanks for
> clarifying that.
>
> Si
>
>

You've been studying!!!! Most people wouldn't relate the two. In
Kansas, where the tornadoes roam, at Ft Riley we had to use 2 tiedowns.
So the rotor was level fore and aft, and both blades tied down. And
that wasn't enough, we also had to attach cargo straps to all 4 ends of
the crosstubes. So getting the aircraft ready for flight required
un-tie-ing, un-hooking, removing the inlet pillows and the exhaust
covers. By the time all that was completed we were too tired to fly.
:)  (joking)
--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 1:34:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:ZjHte.47572$j51.25079@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> You've been studying!!!!

More than you know! All year I've been preparing myself to go off and do a
year long JAR CPL(H) course starting later this summer. Unfortunately my
house failed to sell so I've had to forfeit my place on the course. It's a
shame, but I'm trying to figure if I can find the funds to do a PPL(H) while
I continue working as a starter. But I may just decide to count myself
lucky in the successful career I've already got and do fixed-wing
ultralights for fun. As much as I long to fly helicopters full-time, (and
have done since I was about 4 years old), I don't really want to give up
everything I've earnt so far and start again at the bottom.

Si
June 22, 2005 1:34:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Simon Robbins wrote:

> More than you know! All year I've been preparing myself to go off and do a
> year long JAR CPL(H) course starting later this summer. Unfortunately my
> house failed to sell so I've had to forfeit my place on the course. It's a
> shame, but I'm trying to figure if I can find the funds to do a PPL(H) while
> I continue working as a starter. But I may just decide to count myself
> lucky in the successful career I've already got and do fixed-wing
> ultralights for fun. As much as I long to fly helicopters full-time, (and
> have done since I was about 4 years old), I don't really want to give up
> everything I've earnt so far and start again at the bottom.
>
> Si
>
>

Keep at it. I know it is hard, if I had not gone to flight school back
when they needed replacement pilots during the Viet Nam fiasco I would
probably be working in the shovel plant back home. It would be a good
job, those in the USA can look at their shovels, and hose reels, etc and
see they come from Parkersburg WV, my home town. :) 

I know of several pilots there at the canyon that did the basic
helicopter training up to commercial in a R22, then went to the Bell
Helicopter Bell 206 course and applied to Papillon and were accepted,
even though the insurance for them was quite a lot. The Canyon tours
have a hard time keeping pilots. As they build time, more and more
companies will begin to look at your resume.

The pay is not great at the beginning. I was paid about $2400.00 per
month for the first year at Papillon. The pay goes up substantially the
next year and goes up for each year. But if I was still flying I would
get on with PHI, flying to the oil rigs in the Gulf. The tour is 2 weeks
on, 2 weeks off. My kind of work schedule. And when you were on the rig
the food was great and you could get a great tan. PHI called me to come
work for them but I had seen what the pilots that up and left Papillon
in mid summer to go to a better job. I told PHI I could not leave the
canyon job, I had promised to fly the whole season. Maybe it was a
stroke of luck. Gabriella was on a Southwest tour and bought a ticket
for the LONG flight around the canyon. The pilot on the aircraft she was
riding got sick, landed, climbed out and threw up. Can you imagine being
a passenger and seeing your pilot blowing chunks everywhere. Anyway
after a short period of "I'm not flying them, I'm not either" and so on
I went and got my gear from the helicopter I had been flying and took
Gabriella and a second pax on the tour. Another humorous moment. When
Gabriella left the aircraft she asked the ground crew to take a picture
of her in front of the helicopter. I motioned her to step on the skid
and get the picture beside me. After the picture she looked at me and,
well, we were face to face and all, and, well, we kissed. There's much
more but the end of it saw me turning down a permanent job with
Papillon, moving to Germany to live with Gabriella, and that's about it.
Long story Huh?

Here's the first kiss.

http://chicalina.com/husband.html

--

(Smiling) boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 22, 2005 10:39:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:igaue.48526$j51.30948@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Long story Huh?
>
> Here's the first kiss.
>
> http://chicalina.com/husband.html

Cool story boB.

Si
!