Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

The Dark Side!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
March 21, 2006 1:32:12 PM

First off, I'd like to say thank you to all of you for your great information.

Second of all, I'd like for you all to give me a nice warm welcome to the Dark Side (ATI) :D  . I should be receiving my X1900XT today.

I'm coming from a 6600 GT, and just had a couple of questions for you guys:
How big of a difference in performance do you think I'll notice (mostly HL2/CS:S)?

After I uninstall and run the cleanup on my existing Nvidia drivers, should I install the drivers that are coming with the card, or just download the latest from the ATI website?

Though I don't plan on overclocking right out of the box, I would like to have the option available to me. What should I download / install, and in what, if any order should they be installed? ATI Tools / CCC / Overclocker Tools / etc confused the crap out of me. I'd like to be able to change voltage, clock speeds obviously, and fan speed.

Thanks again for all your help! <3

-Ryu

More about : dark side

March 21, 2006 1:50:37 PM

I felt the same way when I got my first ATI card. Went from a FX5900 to a 9800 Pro. Frame rates were way better in some games but image quality was way better too(especially Halo). However now I'm back to Nvidia since it was the better of the cards when I got it.

Just do a quick search on google for OC tools. I forget which one I used.
March 21, 2006 1:52:24 PM

Quote:
I felt the same way when I got my first ATI card. Went from a FX5900 to a 9800 Pro. Frame rates were way better in some games but image quality was way better too(especially Halo). However now I'm back to Nvidia since it was the better of the cards when I got it.

Just do a quick search on google for OC tools. I forget which one I used.

Where was my warm welcome :cry: 

-Ryu
Related resources
March 21, 2006 2:48:01 PM

From 6600 to 1900 is a huge jump - expect to use AA and AF to the max along with HDr (if your system is up to spec)

Use Driver Cleaner Pro to remove Nvidia drivers and I'd suggest using the latest ATi drivers on the web as they are more "refined"

For OC'ing you'll want to get ATiTool 0.25 beta 14 - although OCing such a fine card doesn't bring much to the party...
March 21, 2006 4:00:29 PM

Yes, yes, Driver Cleaner and ATI Tool. Definitely get the latest drivers from ATI. Be sure to check the disk that comes with the card though for other utils like DVD player and such.
March 21, 2006 4:08:43 PM

Quote:
good man. welcome to the dark side, you won't regret it. using the cs:s stress test facility i get about 140 or so with 1920 x 1200 res and everthing maxed. one thing to note is that on militia it drops to about 40's and on dod it is about 50-low 60's. HDR takes it's toll at high res's.

i'll assume you play at 1280 x 1024 i don't know what fps you'll get. tell you what i'll just change my settings and test it just so you can get a comparison when you play it on your system.

EDIT: i lie only got 130 at my usual settings. as far as the other res i got about 166. might not be what you'd get as im scaling down. least that gives you an idea of what to expect.

I play in game with 1024x768, and on the stress test with all the settings on extremely low (autoexec config for FPS) I score barely over 100 :cry: 

I can't wait! Card is at my house waiting for me :D 

-Ryu
March 21, 2006 4:15:49 PM

Google for Omega drives, their realy good.
March 21, 2006 7:21:56 PM

Quote:
Yes, yes, Driver Cleaner and ATI Tool. Definitely get the latest drivers from ATI. Be sure to check the disk that comes with the card though for other utils like DVD player and such.

I saw some discussions about the different versions on some forums today. Is the link you provided the correct and/or best version of ATI Tool for the x1900?

-Ryu
March 21, 2006 7:25:20 PM

Dark Side, damm, now you tell me. :D 
I thought I saw the light, must of just been the headlights of some truck.

Like S7A88Y said, give the Omega drivers a go.

http://www.omegadrivers.net/
March 21, 2006 7:36:40 PM

Looks like ATI Tool Beta 14 is the way to go for x1900 users. I just want to be able to overclock sometime down the road, and to control the fan speed/monitor temperature.

-Ryu
March 21, 2006 8:10:01 PM

But you can max out Half-Life2 on a 7800GT.
March 21, 2006 8:53:42 PM

agreed, the built in driver oc works well... atitool does let you at fan speeds and voltage but the built in one is still servicable.

ati also has their new video converter that screams through converting/compressing video to different formats... uses the gpu to do it, toms had a small writeup on it, shows huge perf. gain

oh, and dark side? And here i thought this was light! (wonder if Darth Vader thought that?...)
March 21, 2006 10:50:56 PM

Well I installed it and the game looks amazing!

Only problem is my FPS isn't anything special :cry: 

2.8GHz Dual Core Pentium OC'd to about 3.0GHz is probably what's holding me back, and as much as I want to upgrade (and can afford to), I've got 2GB of memory that's DDR2 that I can' carry over.

Suggestions?

-Ryu
March 21, 2006 10:55:39 PM

what fps #'s are not "special"? did you want triple digits? For me if it stays near 60 and looks as good as these do then I am happy as all get out. (heck, even 40's look good to me in FEAR w/ all of it on!)
March 21, 2006 11:03:11 PM

dude, my 1900xt pwns my 6800 le agp. Love this new build! So fast in games!
March 22, 2006 4:14:20 AM

haha, you have good taste in components... especially the vid card! ;) 
March 22, 2006 12:21:09 PM

Quote:
i know your looking for perfection but i would be surprised if you werent getting ove 100fps in cs:s. the minimum is probably 80's on maps like compound which has lots of open spaces. what fps do you get?

Depends on the map.

On maps like inferno it goes as low as 30s :cry: 

I ran 3dmark06 and scored 5200+ with a CPU score of 1405 eeek lol.

-Ryu
March 22, 2006 12:58:36 PM

Thanks my friend as do you! I tell ya what in cs source the performance over my old 6800 le nvidia is night and day. I am running it currently at 1600x1200 with all shit turned up 2x aa 8xaf getting 80 - 250 fps depending on the map and it usually is around 150 fps as an average. I love the new build!
March 22, 2006 1:01:03 PM

agreed, w/o any oc'ing this machine screams... and I am currently moving up the clock ladder seeing how far I can push this w/ just the stock air cooling, so far very impressive. 3d mark: 06-5.5k 05-10.5k so far...
March 22, 2006 1:02:12 PM

how hot is your x2 getting?
March 22, 2006 1:15:31 PM

My X2 4400+ on stock gets ~48ºC on full load, though atm there is some cable mess in there.

I'm OC'ing mine to 2.5Ghz gradually.. but if it ever hits 55ºC I'm backing off...
March 22, 2006 1:16:59 PM

you know, off the top of my head I think it was around 55 under full load and 40-45 idle. but I havent messed w/ it all this week (besides fireing up bf2 each night) and I am at work right now... I so want to be with my "baby" but duty calls... (or doodie depending on how you look at it ;)  I could be wrong about the temps and will look tonight to confirm what i have said... will edit if wrong... :) 

haven't done much beyond the asus AI overclocking to 3% and clocked the video up like 10Mhz on core and mem. Just to test the water and let the system burn in a bit before I do anything harsh. I want to ensure that all is stable before I start kissing the sky. Have only had this thing like 2 weeks. once burn in is done (perhaps this weekend) I will start messing w/ everything and seeing where this puppy will go.

EDIT: ya, i am prb wrong on my temps above... will check tonight to find out.
March 22, 2006 1:41:17 PM

I've decided to hold off on a CPU / Mobo upgrade until the latest AMD stuff comes on in May/June. I think I can survive until then lol.

-Ryu
March 22, 2006 1:55:05 PM

Well I would be careful on the X2 temps bra, I heard that they aren't rated to go up high like the old xp's. You should check to see what the temp ratings are first before you even play with that. I think 55 is way too hot for the x2s and optys. I could be wrong though. I'm nervous about ocin my opteron. It is rock solid and fast as hell!
March 22, 2006 2:01:57 PM

ya, i'm just pulling those #s outta by butt, they are prb wrong and will dbl check em tonight cause after i posted them i read a bit about what others were getting and see that I was prb thinking about my older xp (xp2700 @2.4ghz on air) machine i have oc'd w/ those temps. ;) 
March 22, 2006 2:04:31 PM

Yeah dude, double check about temps please cause I am curious to know. You seem genuine and that is hard to find on forumz. Everyone wants to be so leet n shit! No one wants to just say yeah I was worried about this or scared to mess this up. You seem honest so lemme know. Lata
March 22, 2006 2:17:46 PM

I did have my X2 4400 at 2.5Ghz once before... but after a week I started have HDD problems (clunking noises, BSOD, failed startups due to unreadable HDD). I rolled back *everything* and the HDD is fine now. The 2.5 did get to 54C on full load, though that was in winter in a normal room.

Full load so far:

Stock (2.20Ghz): 48C
2.25 Ghz: 51C

I'm still waiting on some fan filters from ebuyer (10 weeks in the sodding mail, they're not returning my emails and not promising what they'd do when I call them *GRR*). I could probably de-dust my machine too.
March 23, 2006 2:23:54 AM

yup, i was wrong on the #s...

38c on sorta-idle (with some file transfers going)
45c +/- on load

so I have some room to go yet. sorry about the confusion. ;)  l8z
March 23, 2006 7:59:23 PM

Thats the question though. Is the processor that noticably faster with the overclock? Opty 170 is fast as hell without any oc.
March 23, 2006 8:01:55 PM

I see a difference enough in my X2 to make it worth it.
March 23, 2006 8:02:51 PM

Running music, browsing on the net, and monitoring it is at 37C right now. I don't know if that is bad. The artic silver has only been on a week. Plus one fan is off on the side of the case. On an 80mm but still it could intake more cool are to flow. I have the main intake fan blowing over a passively cooled (zalman) 74 gig raptor 10000 rpm drive. So that gets cold so the intake is already warm by the time it gets to the processor. I think that my Opty is already too hot for OC in my eyes at least. I know that these processors aren't rated to get as hot as the old xps. They usually run way cold. Now at 35. Running fear or cs at top settings at 1600x1200 or cs source on the same with x1900xt it gets up to 42c. If I oc at all it is going to get hot as hell. I think thats stupid even though I want to.
March 23, 2006 8:19:37 PM

well, my philosophy on oc is this:

small steps, like REALLY small. after each step run a while both desktop apps and games. ut 2004 or quake3 are great 'cause you can do them on a loop. Run at low settings for cpu oc's as that will put more on the cpu than the video. Let that go for a while and then check both temps and look for any issues.

Once you get too hot or have voltage/speed prbs you will see crashes or instability or bad POSTs. I think if you go in small steps you will be able to do fine. Based on what i have read that opty should go much higher than an x2. It is a server grade chip that can handle alot more than what a consumer chip like the x2 can.

But I never go for the super high clocks anyway, i like to stay w/ air cooling and just get a "little" more out of it while keeping totally stable.

w/ my small 3% oc now i saw about a 300 point increse in 3dMark 05... so not much but measurable.
March 24, 2006 6:52:07 AM

Ok a refresh of my X2 4400:

Its been running almost 24/7 since christmas (on BOINC).
I actually went and cleaned the dust out of it(!)

So, when de_dusted and 100% load:

2.20Ghz (200x11): 43ºC
2.25Ghz (205x11): 43ºC
2.30Ghz (210x11): 44ºC
2.35Ghz (215x11): 44ºC

Each OC is at least 8hrs stable.
Looks like it might go to ~2.6 fairly easily, despite the expected exponential increase in temperature.
March 24, 2006 1:01:41 PM

wow man, that is really good... and that is on stock cooling?! wow... makes me all the more excited for this weekend. :twisted: gonna put 'er up on blocks and do some heart surgery... muahaha!

actually I just mean to do some oc'ing but you get the idea... woohoo! will post back w/ some data.
March 24, 2006 7:41:28 PM

I just had a computer &*()(& up.

Upped the FSB another 5Mhz, installed some stuff, and for some reason a virus got in through my firewall and virus scanner - couldnt boot up. First I thought it was system instability, so I clocked down. Then when XP wouldnt boot under any circumstance, I used it as an oppertunity to reinstall everything.

So, back to 200FSB again. :roll:

I bought my computer pre built, though I got to choose the components (not necessarily the brand, i.e. RAM). I opted for extra cooling, and got a 8cm square gigabyte HS and 8cm fan on it. So not stock (my error) but most people around here have some sort of zalman cooler.
March 24, 2006 8:12:38 PM

ok then... ya i know that most have the zalman, I have some friends w/ it and it reall is the $**t. Kinda pricey for right now though... perhaps when I "need" the higher clock I will get it. ;) 

Hope you can get the system back to where you had it man... stupid viruses.
March 26, 2006 3:41:00 AM

ok, just at first using the asus AI in the bios I clocked the 4200 from 2.2 to 2.4 w/ no issues. This of course means that doing it manually (like using a divider etc...) I should get it higher...

...keep in mind this is with stock cooling... cpu temp at load is still 45c !!! NO CHANGE! (stock clocks did only peak at 45 and this STAYS at 45 but still...)

I also used the ati overdrive in the drivers to bring the card to 645/745. AtiTool kept crashing my system and 3d mark would not run w/ it installed. strange...

So now, w/ those clocks I am getting 11k for 3dmark 05 and 5.7k for 06

(from 10.5, 5.5 w/ vid card @ 635/730 and cpu @ stock)

I will play w/ the manual settings on the mobo for oc the cpu and see if any big improvements... woo-hoo
March 26, 2006 11:33:46 AM

yeah dude, but seriously.......when you overclocked that x1900xt didn't it get way hot! I mean when I play cs n stuff that card gets way hot. What is your temps on it? underload?
March 26, 2006 1:18:54 PM

Quote:
Hope you can get the system back to where you had it man... stupid viruses.



Found the problem - my USB external HDD was interfering with the boot-up when it was plugged in. I only found this out AFTER reinstalling everything. *grumble*

Now 210FSB (2.31Ghz) 100% at 48ºC.

For some reason since reinstall my speedfan wont work...? So I'm taking temps from ASUS Ai Booster.
March 27, 2006 5:19:41 AM

yup, like stranger said... i could cook a turkey on it if i so chose to use it that way. :wink: according to the ccc it gets up to 72 after a few runs of 3dMark. It sits at about 65 after a few hours of bf2 though. So the 'mark taxes it WAY more than games right now.

But ya, its hot... too hot for comfort so I ran it that high for a while and then just clocked it back down... I dont need that speed on it yet anyway as everything current runs flat out spankin on it stock. (ok, honestly I run it at 630/730 which is slightly clocked... I just cant resist! lol) Once AtiTool is stable, which i hope is soon... it alows access to the fan speed bumps, as the stock speed settings let that thing get that hot.

The short time i had it installed (before it crashed the 'mark) I ran it clocked like that and yet had the fan set to ramp up quicker... it ran much closer to what it did at stock speeds w/ "old" fan settings. (louder though) Obviously ati chose quiet fan over cooling, and once that thing speeds up it definitely cools it fine. That is def. what i will do once i need the speed and the 'tool is stable.

I do see more overall system improvements w/ the cpu clock... even in games so I am keeping that, (and why not w/ the temps so stable) and prb go higher...

This is one hot chip though. hottest thing in my case and the only fan that exhausts really hot air! Think I may put an intake fan on the side for it as this sonatta case (while quiet) does not have the intake right for a video card like this.
March 27, 2006 11:35:41 AM

Well as Far as the X1900XTX goes its grear and your frame rates will seem low like in CS:S mine runs at 90Fps constant no dips nothing AAx8 AFx16,
(I think thats right or maybe the otherway around), What you need to do is, open console in CS:S and type cl_showfps 2 , that will show you between what range you card runs, and if you want you can set the max fps by typing
max_fps (type a value) its normally on 300.


Along the lines as far as the X2 4400 goes, I tried to OC it and I ended up with only one core working, I took small steps so I had to revert back to normal settings and then it worked (you could imagine my sigh of relief :D ).


My CPU Idle temp @2200Mhz is 29C
When full Load @2200Mhz is 39-45C

Bleh
!