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Ordered VG191...

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February 1, 2002 3:45:20 PM

Hello,

I ordered a VG191 today, should have it on Monday. I am getting a good deal with a 30-day return policy, no re-stocking fee. I was going to get the TFT-7020, but with the return policy on the VG191 being so good(I will only have to pay return shipping), I figured I can test this out and see how it performs.

I'm not a super gamer, but I did get Giants, Citizen Kabuto and Dues EX with the Audigy card, was going to see how it responded to those. Might play a DVD in there too as I just picked up some Klipsch speakers and would like to test those also.

I'll try to post a short review on Monday or Tuesday for those interested. BTW, I have a Gainward Ti500 card on an Athlon XP1900+ with 1028MB Ram. So, I'm hoping that I shouldn't be held back at all by the processor or video card.

Frank

More about : ordered vg191

February 2, 2002 12:06:32 PM

Can you please tell me where is this good deal at? what kind of good deal? I am looking to purchase one also, but so far, the lowest price is $936!!
Anonymous
February 2, 2002 1:25:56 PM

936 dollars is an excellent deal, esp. for a large 19-inch LCD.

Jack Burton is a great man...
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February 2, 2002 3:22:10 PM

I was tracking the price of Viewsonic VG191 hoping it will go down some! the best price was buy.com at $936, but this morning when I check, it goes up to $1296!!! after giving them a call and trying to found a answer or match price! the sales rep will only say that their Viewsonic price is link directly to the View manfacture, and that the price have gone way up! and that they will not be able to match pcnation or go back to the price showing yesterday!!

is it just BS error or is the price of big lcd start to creep up?
19in lcd for $937 does sound too cheap compare to other thru!!

http://www.us.buy.com/retail/searchresults.asp?querytyp...
February 2, 2002 3:45:33 PM

Well, I am getting one through a friend who works at a computer store. $936 is an excellent price, I haven't seen much cheaper. The big thing for me was being able to return for any reason within 30 days and only have to pay shipping(which is not much on a flat panel) to do so, no re-stocking fee.

It is being shipped to me out of Chicago, and I live in a suburb, so I am expecting it on Monday. I will post my observations as soon as I can...
Anonymous
February 2, 2002 4:31:20 PM

I dunno why the price just shot up like that. It's still 969 dollars at www.mwave.com. Been that way for a little over 3 months.

Jack Burton is a great man...
Anonymous
February 5, 2002 11:55:31 PM

So how's the LCD? I would like to see some user reviews of it....hehe.

Jack Burton is a great man...
February 6, 2002 12:47:22 AM

WHERE ARE THE REVIEW"S....IM DIEN TO BUY THIS MONITOR, but no store near me has it on Display...

thanks/rob

AMD USER!!!
Anonymous
February 6, 2002 12:59:27 AM

June is like 4 months away. I hope you don't drive us crazy first.
February 6, 2002 1:05:49 AM

LOL, Yeah, but if the Price is right, i'll get this monitor in April...no need to wait for june..i doubt the price will drop alot..

AMD USER!!!
February 6, 2002 4:22:32 AM

I didn't receive the monitor until tonite, UPS decided to show up yesterday but not knock on our door.

Anyway, in one word I am disappointed in the monitor. I only have a few minutes right now so I'll make this short. I spent several hours going through Viewsonic's utilities and playing with settings to no avail. The ghosting is very evident at all times. Text was very crisp however and image quality seemed to be very nice though. I tried some games and was not real impressed with the ghosting. I am not a huge gamer, so that wasn't a big deal. I played DVD's and that looked very nice, though at times it didn't seem like it was as clear as it could be. But, I had not optimized the colors at that time. Overall though I would give the DVD high remarks. I haven't run a DVD on the CRT either yet. I will do so and comment if it changes my opinion.

Overall it is a decent monitor, but at the price, I am not real happy. Viewing angles were nice, contrast and brightness seemed nice, but I go back to the ghosting when scrolling web pages and the mouse which I just don't get on the CRT.

I just could not deal with the ghosting on the mouse pointer or on web pages. I will be returning it and weighing my options. I may just buy a nice CRT for now and wait until the technology improves or look hard at the TFT7020. But, oh the space savings was nice.

BTW, I run an AMD XP 1900+, a Gainward GF3 Ti500(which I sadly read on THG is going to see a major price drop) with 1024mb ram.
February 6, 2002 5:44:14 AM

Wow, that's very bad! I will have to see for myself!

ghosting on mouse pointer and scrolling web page!!! I haven't seen those since the dual scan day! right now I have a Apple 15in lcd, a Envision 17in lcd,a Sony 19in crt and of course my Compaq laptop! none of the lcd screen included laptop have ghosting on mouse pointer or scrolling web page! if my Viewsonic perform as you stated! I will return the lcd right away!! it wouldn't worth $100 to have ghosting on scrolling web page in 2002!!

By the way, those Nvidia chipset video card have absolutely worst image quality in the business! I return my Ti500 within 2 hrs and exchange for R8500 due to absoluetly crappy image and dvd playback!! hopefully they improved that department with their GF4!
Anonymous
February 6, 2002 10:57:31 AM

I saw a guy on the AT forums that had the exact same comments. Seems to be normal for that panel. I would definitely check out the TFT7020, you won't have the ghosting problems then.
February 6, 2002 11:22:41 AM

I was surprised that it was like that. I spent a few hours trying to clear it up, but couldn't. That doesn't mean someone else couldn't, but I am unhappy with the monitor. The ghosting I didn't expect at all...I saw it mentioned that someone else had similar comments. I'm just surprised and somewhat disappointed. The fact I can return it for just the shipping cost(which on 30 lbs is minor) is a relief...

Thanks
February 6, 2002 12:46:00 PM

is this the 3 tread you have in mind?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&th...
and
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&th...

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=31&th...

this guy Billrod seem to like the Compaq 8030 more although it seem he have a lot of bad luck/sensitive about lcd, he seem to return quite a few lcd after trying them out! I wouldn't want to be his retailer! :) 

hey, it seem like Compaq have a pretty good return policy! perhaps you would like to order one and see how you like it, it have 20ms response time compare to 25ms av on VG191.
February 6, 2002 12:59:19 PM

What is GHOSTING???????

Later/Rob

AMD USER!!!
Anonymous
February 6, 2002 1:31:03 PM

You shouldn't see ghosting if the LCD has a 25ms response time. Odd that I didn't see it at the stores, but then again when you hook it up at home it's probably different. Did you use DVI or Analog? Might be a difference in the two....

Jack Burton is a great man...
February 6, 2002 1:35:25 PM

Wow, Buddwm makes a good point, that didn't even cross my mind, DVI or Analog should make a difference in the performance of the monitor... What is Ghosting??? I never heard that Term Before..

Thanks/Rob

AMD USER!!!
February 6, 2002 2:07:26 PM

I am using DVI with a Gainward GF3 Ti500 card. I am going to make sure I have the latest drivers before returning it. I always believed ghosting to be when pixels blend together and it's like leaving a trail.

Perhaps the GF3 cards don't work well with these??? I really don't want to have to give it up if I don't have to and go through the hassle.

Maybe I am doing something wrong, but when I scroll text on a webpage, it flashes, text changes color(example: white text on a color background flashes blue). The text doesn't stay crisp like I have here at work on a big CRT. Do I have some settings wrong? I followed Viewsonics installation CD and downloaded the latest drivers off their site. Maybe I'll pull it back out of the box to see...but those posts on anandtech.com about it were similar to mine. I think I may be leaning towards just returning it saving some money and buying a CRT for now. But, if I can tune it in to work better I'd by happy. Perhaps I'll contact Viewsonic support to see what is going on.

Oh, I'm also running XP and always in 1280x1024 Native Reolution.
February 6, 2002 2:27:46 PM

Hey, why don't you wait a few day if at all possible, since I am getting my vg191 today, I will hook it up to my Ati Radeon DVI, see if I have the same problem you do!

your latest post indicate more serious problem then "slow" response time, no lcd should "change color" flash when scrolling!! by the way? there shouldn't be any software that you need to install? except if you want to play with internet true color!

humm. I did saw a guy over at AT that have issue using Nvidia GF3 with vg191 also!! I wonder what is going on!
February 6, 2002 2:45:45 PM

Hi,

Sure, that sounds like a good idea. I am in no rush and the earliest I would send it out is Friday probably.

When scrolling text on a web page, the text flashes and turns bluish. Viewsonic has an install disk that has their drivers on there. They also guide you through a set-up to adjust the colors and such. I did that and it actually got worse. It probably actually was best when I just plugged it in and did nothing.

I am going to try to give it another shot, probably Thursday as I won't have time tonite. I figure it's probably worth it to try as much as I can before sending it back...

I'll be interested to know how yours turns out.

Thanks
Anonymous
February 6, 2002 8:47:49 PM

I'd like to see the results too as I was planning on buying one in June. However, when I looked at one in the store I didn't see any of the problems described, and I had them hook it up via DVI too and use the natvie resolution. But I didn't see what video card the computer was using. It sounds like a GF3 issue though, as one of the users at the Anadtech thread said he switched his to a GF2 and it fixed the prob. I dunno...??

Jack Burton is a great man...
Anonymous
February 6, 2002 8:50:36 PM

Also, see if you can try analog mode and get the same problem. I wish I could test it out myself....

Jack Burton is a great man...
Anonymous
February 6, 2002 11:13:07 PM

The thing is that the slower the video card the better the LCD looks in games. This is because the older video card can pump less fps.

However you guys have the G3 Ti500 and with the newer even faster geforce4 coming out it looks like the gaming with LCD's will get even worse.

We are going to have to wait for a better LCD to appear in order for it to work well with todays high fps rates.

About the ghosting. I have a logitech mouse USB and when I move it fast i notice ghosting on my CRT screen. So on the LCD its not surprising.
Anonymous
February 6, 2002 11:56:12 PM

We are talking about scrolling down a web page, not a 150fps game. So techincally the video card shouldn't matter, but this is an odd one since all of these probs are with users with a Geforce3.

Jack Burton is a great man...
Anonymous
February 7, 2002 3:42:13 AM

I have a 191 and cannot get a mouse trail or ghosting in scrollng web pages. I was running a Voodoo3 quite satisfactorily and upped to G550 for a small but noticeable margin of extra crispness.

I can drag windows as fast as my mouse will move and still get no trails, blurs or tearing. I have noticed the some pages with white text on a black background will ghost a little in scrolling - but since that constitutes about .0005% of my computer time its not a worry for me.

I would try a different video card - several people have complained about that combo if I remember correctly.

The only games I have played are RTCW demo, which looked fine to me (except the V3 would only run it at non-native resolution, so it wasn't great) and Civ3 which is hardly a FPS...


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.
February 7, 2002 12:41:41 PM

ok, I pick up the monitor and have it set up and running for the past 6hrs or so!

here is my take

1. very sharp font and bright screen, similar to the look of my Apple Cinema 15in lcd, there is absolutely no mouse tail that I notice no matter how fast do I flip around, there is also none of the ghost/blur when scrolling thru web page/document that I notice! there is no "text flashes/turn bluish that you suffer"!

2. Dvd playback, using powerdvd, there is no ghost/blurness either on movie playback that I notice. good color, beautiful sharp picture!

3. no problem playing game, so far only RA2, Q3 and MOHAA, there is a small amount of "ghost" when playing 1st person shooter game, specially when running "demo" when I pay full attention to this kind of stuff, but while actually playing, didn't really notice it or enough to bother me! "maybe when playing game, I don't run around at 150fps:) "
by the way,I think this is just typical of a lcd no matter which model you purchase with lcd runing 60-75mhz and their pixel response time! is kind of saying"why is my 21in crt take so much desk space?" you should know the pro and con of either type of monitor before you purchase! there is no miracle!

5. if you want to see VG191 in person and can't found it in local retail store, go ck out the VA800 at your local compusa/bestbuy/Microcenter, I think it is the same basic enclosure, but with thinner brezel, sharper font"probably due to DVI"! otherwise very similar look!

6. Is it the perfect lcd? noway, I wish for a even faster pixel response time for absoluetly no ghost game playing!
I wish for even bigger size same as Apple Cinema 24in widescreen! but looking around the market, this seem to be the best performance/size/price lcd at the moment! nothing really seem to come close at this size!

Frankjp, this is really a very nice lcd imo, I will certainly keep mine! no question about it, but perhaps you can try one thing before return yours, just plug your VG191 into another computer, a friend or co worker perhaps, (much easier and more accurate then trying to upgrade your video driver)doesn't matter if it is vga or dvi, and see if you notice the same problem! if the problem exist on another different system, I really don't know what to say! I don't think my eyesight or their QC could be that bad!

if there is other question, we will continue on this tread!

anyway, here is my system
Abit KG7/Amd 1.4G and 512 m
Ati Radeon AIW
Anonymous
February 7, 2002 12:54:26 PM

This is good news, esp. since I will be getting an ATI card and not a nVidia one, that is unless I can be sure this problem doesn't exist with the new GF4's. Aw well, I'm still getting one. Frank, it's got to be the video card.

Jack Burton is a great man...
February 7, 2002 4:04:46 PM

Thanks for the info. Yes, it does sound like it's the video card. I am going to return it and just stick with the CRT for now. Everything looks good on there. I don't have to pay a restocking fee or anything, so I'll just save the money and look into something down the road, maybe swap the card out at the same time. I just bought this new PC and I really don't want to have to spend for another video card, and with the GF4, my GF3 won't fetch that much...

Thanks again! I'm glad it worked out for you!
February 7, 2002 6:22:10 PM

So will the problem happen for every Video Card. or just the Gain-geforce3 ti500 video card,

Once you go AMD, You never Go back!!
Anonymous
February 7, 2002 6:36:53 PM

Seems like it's just on the GF3 card. I can't find anyone else that has an 8500 or any other nVidia card with the problem. I dunno why the GF3 would do that though. You may want to contact Viewsonic and see if they are aware of this problem.

Jack Burton is a great man...
February 7, 2002 6:59:45 PM

Hmm, shouldn't he have gotten flamed for suggesting using DVI? It's what happened to me......

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
February 7, 2002 11:46:04 PM

Uh....not sure what you mean flame?? Did anyone ever find out if the response time for the Compaq 8030 was correct? I wonder if 20ms would make a difference from 25ms. I just started reading the new issue of Computer Shopper, and every LCD they reviwed said it had ghosting, and most of them had a 25ms response time. The ghosting is in mainly games, not with DVD's, etc. Maybe I should just get a CRT, but I need one with a short depth dimension. Agghhh.......why isn't there a monitor with all the good features???????

Jack Burton is a great man...
February 7, 2002 11:52:30 PM

Look at the TFT5030 post. Anyways, can u provide a link to teh computer shopper review...I want to see something (and possibly have a better basis for a theory I have).

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
February 8, 2002 12:08:58 AM

I said I read it in the magazine dude. If you want to read it you'll have to get a copy.

Jack Burton is a great man...<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Buddwm on 02/07/02 09:17 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 8, 2002 12:22:54 AM

It is this month's issue? I'll try to find it in one of the libraries here.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
February 8, 2002 3:40:22 AM

Yeah, it's Feb's issue. Look at the review of the Cornerstone 17.4" LCD. There were other LCD's reviewed too, but I don't remember which ones.

Jack Burton is a great man...
Anonymous
February 8, 2002 4:43:48 AM

I think there are monitors with not all but quiet a few really good features. Its just that due to how new some of the technology is, how expensive it is to produce Really high end monitors, and how there isint a huge demand for them you pay a huge premium for the quality.


If I find a good example of such a monitor I will post a link.
Anonymous
February 8, 2002 1:10:40 PM

Well hopefully new LCD's will be released by the summer with faster response times. However, I doubt that will happen. But I am still glad to see the ghosting is at a minimum with the VG191 and I think I'll stick with that for now.

Jack Burton is a great man...
February 8, 2002 2:25:18 PM

The price of most lcd have actually gone down quite a bit already, there will always be a price/latest tech issue with technology item!

I don't see any "new" technology coming onine anytime soon, but I do see slightly faster lcd and perhaps a bit of further drop in price specially in the bigger lcd which is still quite expensive compare to 15in
February 8, 2002 9:13:19 PM

Maybe this is my opinion, but I do belive LCD's are very cheap now. Top LCD's are in the 500/600's (15" that is), where as before the summer they were $1000 for the same size, and not nearly the same specs. I read somewhere that in fact LCD is cheaper to produce and should cost less than CRT....anyway here that can verify this? (The only reason teh price is so high is b/c LCD is a luxury)

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
February 8, 2002 11:25:10 PM

Right now facilities producing smaller screens are producing excess capacity - hence the low prices on these panels. Larger models are being produced on newer fabs - these are in less over supply, but the newest plants have lower production cost - putting downward pressure on high end panels. (If I understand it correctly).
Don't look for revelations in newer technology for at least 12 months.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.
February 8, 2002 11:31:21 PM

lol, nice sig!

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
February 13, 2002 2:21:28 AM

what refresh rate and resolution were you using out of interest?

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
February 13, 2002 2:23:29 AM

Hi, I was using the native resolution, 1280x1024 at 60Hz.
February 13, 2002 2:39:52 AM

ok - just wondered.

-* <font color=red> !! S O L D !! </font color=red> *-
To the gentleman in the pink Tutu
Anonymous
February 13, 2002 5:56:01 PM

I'm not sure if there was ever a resolution to the ghosting problem that was attributed to a geforce3 + MVA (viewsonic's in this case) panel. I thought I would just comment on my own recent experiences. I have an MVA panel and a geforce3. This combination results in some serious ghosting in fast action games. Also, white text on a dark background blurs extremely when scrolling up/down. The white text actually takes on a shade of the background color. I think this was described before in this thread and I think we are seeing the same thing.

After reading about a possible compatability problem between geforce3 and MVA, I took out my geforce3 and replaced it with my old radeon LE. There was a drastic reduction in frame rate but no improvement in ghosting. It seems to me that my MVA panel suffers from bad ghosting regardless of the video card.
Anonymous
February 13, 2002 6:47:33 PM

What was the exact LCD that you are talking about? I don't think we should be so hasty in saying MVA causes ghosting problems. You will get ghosting no matter what if your fps goes above 60. I am seriously beginning to consider a CRT. I just wish I could find one that wasn't so bulky. I know we have the technology to build them....just wonder why we haven't done it yet.

Jack Burton is a great man...
February 13, 2002 6:54:54 PM

This is true, any / all LCDs not matter the technology used will ghost at high FPS. Want to play games I recomend a CRT.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
Anonymous
February 13, 2002 6:56:22 PM

Hey Shark, you know any CRT's that are around 21" with a short depth?

Jack Burton is a great man...
!