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first sli, then quad, now this?????

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March 23, 2006 10:59:43 AM

what the hell is this???? http://www.alienware.com/intro_pages/ageia_physx.aspx

isnt it already enough with sli and quad gfx cards?

More about : sli quad

March 23, 2006 11:14:12 AM

It don't have anything with graphics.
Its processor for physical calculations, and Men that is something big 8O

http://www.ageia.com/
a b B Homebuilt system
March 23, 2006 11:24:49 AM

I ,for one, will need to see some benchmarks with and without such a card in both single gpu and an SLI rig before jumping for any joy on this one....

(Isn't Nvidia also already planning on implementing an SLI rig's 2nd gpu for doing the physics computations, in effect a physics co-processor?)
Related resources
March 23, 2006 11:44:25 AM

Actually, Nvidia is using what parallel processing power they have now to offload some physics calculations on one side and render the image on another. Remember that GPUs are essentially BIG floating point processing units, and that physics calculations require that kind of processing power.

I remember an article about a guy developing a driver able to use a FPU to process high quality sound effects, and getting tremendous results out of that.

However, GPU are also geared towards graphics, so they are not really adapted to the kind of maths physics require.

As such, a dedicated FPU such as Ageia's has some great potential. Don't take it as a graphics processing unit, but as a floating point coprocessor extention card...

That sounds very 386-ish. :p 
March 23, 2006 12:28:52 PM

Yeah, the ability to extend realism to this level sounds great. Nvidia just released a notice that they will be releasing drivers, or program orwhatever they need to to turn SLI into a giant physics board. This add's a very interesting seat to the table in the SLI debate. Now (assuming thier sli physics release does things right) you get 2 benefits from sli (besides e-penismeasuring lol): increased frame rates, and real-time physics effects in games. To me, that would make me feel much better about keeping SLI.

In SLI it doesn't seem like it uses all the availible GPU power, and this would most definately soak up and free cycles. It also allows Nvidia to release GPU's that are over powered reletive to the games availible at the time. This should be interesting to see how it plays out.
March 23, 2006 12:29:26 PM

That's is pretty awesome but how the heck is this card going to fit in my rig. I got sli and sound card and I got no space left! Im definitely getting this when it comes out whenever. The demo video looks awesome with this physics engine. Wow, graphics, physics and sound card combine altogether would make games so much better. :D 
March 23, 2006 12:37:18 PM

i don`t see the connection between ageia physics processor and sli or quad ....this is simply a deviced attached to the gpu ..
March 23, 2006 12:41:59 PM

Quote:
i don`t see the connection between ageia physics processor and sli or quad ....this is simply a deviced attached to the gpu ..


As I understand they are 2 totaly diffrent implimentations of the same idea, real-time physics calculations. Ageia is releasing a dedicated card while Nvidia is going to use free floating point processing power in SLI configurations to do the physics calculations. Who's is better? I have no idea
March 23, 2006 12:42:56 PM

@fainis: what exactly don't you get?

To calculate the way all elements in a 3D scene interact, you need a lot of floating point calculations. Today's processors aren't able to handle it satisfactorily on complex scenes.

GPUs are heavyweight floating point processing units. They are geared towards graphics calculations, but they still kick a processor's FPU pants in general FPU calculations.

Now, if you have a graphics card calculating the physics, and one calculating the image, then you find yourself using the same hardware than a 'typical' SLI setup requires.

However, like I said, a graphics card is made for graphics calculation - a dedicated chip would have the same processing power at lower clock speeds, and be more economical.
March 23, 2006 12:44:02 PM

this thing with the physics processor sounds like sf to us ...for the moment ... who knows what future holds
March 23, 2006 12:46:01 PM

god damn it man...sli and quad it`s one thing ......physics processor is another.....
March 23, 2006 12:46:26 PM

You don't remember the way some people felt when the first 3D accelerators came out, do you? Who remembers re-discovering Lara Croft in Tomb Raider when the 3dfx version came out, with all those Gouraud shadings and bilinear filtered textures?

Well, that's pretty much the same thing.
March 23, 2006 12:47:17 PM

can anybody explain how this differs from a gpu?
March 23, 2006 12:48:51 PM

I've been waiting for somethign like this for a long time. Even in BF2 you can sit there and watch as the most bullshit things happen. Since when can an assault trooper take down a sniper when the sniper is on the edge of scope range? hehe. Since when does missing a infantry unit by 1 ft with a tank shell not kill him? things like that make me laugh, hopefully this Physics stuff will fix some of it.
March 23, 2006 12:49:31 PM

we`ll see ... thats the beauty of it ... it think that 3d should be followed up by 4d ....the time element stuff like that ....it is where perhaps ..ageia will do the job .... :D 
March 23, 2006 12:50:53 PM

Short version:
a gpu calculates a graphics scene, from objects and elements transmitted by the CPU. The cpu still handles how those objects move and interact one with the other.
This aegis card (and Nvidia's new use of SLI) would deal with object interaction in the cpu's place, and since it would be geared to do that, be much more effective at this task. In effect, this card would feed the 3D rendered (a GPU) much more complex scenes to render, much faster.
March 23, 2006 12:51:35 PM

Quote:
we`ll see ... thats the beauty of it ... it think that 3d should be followed up by 4d ....the time element stuff like that ....it is where perhaps ..ageia will do the job .... :D 


oh god... lets not get into 4th dimension crap here, next thingyou know we will be asking for 5d gaming LOL. :p 
March 23, 2006 12:52:43 PM

yaa...and what would the 5-th element be ..any ideas.....

remember the little games ..in whitch you raised a little pet .... you fed it and stuff like that.........that`s where the time cames in........
...just imagine ...fighting in front lines ..your hair will grow ...you`ll get older and stuff like that .... i think thats the job for a time processor ..don`t you think sooo

the dude that raised this forum ..put the question...sli..quad...phisycs...and who`s next ...maybe ...who knows...the time mashine is here..........
March 23, 2006 1:01:41 PM

Quote:
can anybody explain how this differs from a gpu?


GPU- graphics processing unit is for visual like rendering, shadows, ect.

PPU- is for physics or movement of objects and characters.

Check out the Ageia.com website and it explains further.
March 23, 2006 1:04:09 PM

There has been a slight implimentation of 4d gaming on the Xbox. Withthe original release of Halo 2 people found a way of causing timed lag. That is, they would be in game on Xbox Live and be fighting and if they got surprised they would hit a button cause thier foe to lag and they would frag them in what appeared to be a miraculous manner. yeah, I think that has been mostly fixed, but it was annoying to be on the wrong side of that equation. Its akin to bullet time, which may not exactly be 4d but hey, its as close as you can get now lol.
March 23, 2006 1:09:34 PM

Quote:
yaa...and what would the 5-th element be ..any ideas.....


A hot chick with pink hair, of course. :wink:
March 23, 2006 1:12:25 PM

Quote:
yaa...and what would the 5-th element be ..any ideas.....


A hot chick with pink hair, of course. :wink:

Pink..... dude wtf is wrong with you lol. We all know blonde is the best :p 
March 23, 2006 1:14:11 PM

you`re the man...yes i like that ...but would it came included in the box with the next generation video cards ... 8O
March 23, 2006 1:48:31 PM

The big questions for me are:

1) Will ATI release Crossfire-Physics?

2) Will GPU accelerated physics work in tandem with these Ageia cards or do you have to pick one or the other?
March 23, 2006 1:52:32 PM

You can only buy it from Alienware/Dell/Falchon? wtf
March 23, 2006 3:28:02 PM

i did some research on this and came up with a conlusion: THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!!

its because:
1) its fits into any PCI slot, which is good news to AGP users (who btw can also shift this to future rigs)

2)it goes with any add-on cards. this can be a huge advantage over the SLI makeover, ppl can just spend $300 on this card rather than go for SLI which is a hell lot expensive.

3)(according to the website) u just buy this card and ur settled, NO FUTURE HARDWARE UPGRADE NEEDED FOR THIS TECHNOLOGY!!!!! all updates will come in softwares!!! (well, i doubt never, but atleast secured for 2-3 years.)

this is a huge for any gamer. drop the idea to upgrade from 7800 to 7900 and get one of these!


(did u know, that PS3 was delayed so that sony can get their hands on this technology???)
March 23, 2006 3:59:01 PM

Yeah it's pretty cool and I'm saving up already for this physics engine card. But with my current mobo with SLI and sound card I have no room for another pci card as the lower graphics card is blocking one pci slot. :( 
So I'll wait till end of this year or next year to upgrade the mobo. Besides there are few games that currently takes full advantage and fully supports this physics card anyways.

That or I could get rid of my sound card and go with the onboard sound which is bad since I got some good set of speakers. :(  So my best bet is to just wait for a little while and get some extended atx mobo sli with extra pci slot for this physics accelarator card. :) 

I've seen the video of this new card and it is awesome. I wonder what would be like with the game FEAR that has pretty good physics already. That would be something to see! 8O
March 23, 2006 3:59:56 PM

Quote:
you`re the man...yes i like that ...but would it came included in the box with the next generation video cards ... 8O


I like this idea too, I just saw this thing today when I got an email from Dell trying to sell XPS systems , I was like 0o .... o0 wtf is this I gotta get one :p 
March 23, 2006 5:15:12 PM

Where can you buy this card at? You can order it in Aliens/Dell Ren/Falchon computers already, but you can't order it by it self yet?
March 23, 2006 5:16:22 PM

Asus and BFG are to be releasing cards based on the Ageia design by 3Q this year, if I remember correctly. But no, there is no source on these cards yet, AFAIK.

Edit: No source for us lowly build-it-yourself gamers, that is.
March 23, 2006 5:26:12 PM

The PhysX Engine doesn't do too much with the video card, and more with the processor. Could this be the birth of games that truly utilize Dual-Core Processors? I don't know, but I still think this looks pretty cool.
March 23, 2006 5:53:49 PM

Quote:
Asus and BFG are to be releasing cards based on the Ageia design by 3Q this year, if I remember correctly. But no, there is no source on these cards yet, AFAIK.


Thats some BS. Your not BS, but those 3 major companys card selling them in their computers now... Go to Alienware and build an ALX system and you can order it with one of those cards. Let me go see the build date on this system if we can order it now, prolly can order it now through them but your system wont be built for the next 6 months... Seems kinda fishy
March 23, 2006 5:57:43 PM

If you order one now, and click on ship date you get this...

Quote:
Alienware Area-51® ALX
Estimated Time To:
Process Your Order* 2 day(s)
Obtain Items 14 day(s)
Build Your System 16 day(s)


Total Time: (up to) 32 day(s)



Estimated Ship Date*: 4/24/2006


Which items may delay my order?
The items listed below may delay your order. A check mark (check mark on website) indicates an item that is currently selected in your order. Be aware that if your order contains one or more of these items, your estimated ship date will be delayed beyond the standard 16 day(s) build time.

Selected Items Time
Additional Storage Drive - 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/16MB Cache 14 day(s)
Extreme Performance (RAID 0) - 1TB RAID0 (2 x 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/16MB Cache) 14 day(s)
High Performance - 1TB (500GB x 2) Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/32MB Cache 14 day(s)
High Performance with Data Security (RAID 1) - 500GB RAID1 (2 x 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/32MB Cache) 14 day(s)
(has check by it)Ageia PhysX Physics Processing Unit w/ 128MB GDDR3 14 day(s)
Dual 512MB PCI-Express x16 NVIDIA® GeForce™ 7900 GTX - SLI Enabled 14 day(s)
High Performance - 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/16MB Cache 14 day(s)
Additional Storage Drive - 1TB (500GB x 2) Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7,200 RPM w/32MB Cache 14 day(s)




So does mean we can order one by mid April? These cards are already in production it seems.
March 23, 2006 6:03:17 PM

Quote:
It don't have anything with graphics.
Its processor for physical calculations, and Men that is something big 8O

http://www.ageia.com/


that's pretty cool.
March 23, 2006 6:58:39 PM

What we really need is two PhysX cards bridged together to handle twice as much physics, along with quad SLI Nvidia cards and two dual-core processors.
March 23, 2006 7:19:29 PM

Quote:
What we really need is two PhysX cards bridged together to handle twice as much physics, along with quad SLI Nvidia cards and two dual-core processors.


Good god, who are you Bill Gates? 8O
March 23, 2006 8:22:00 PM

Quote:
yaa...and what would the 5-th element be ..any ideas.....


A hot chick with pink hair, of course. :wink:

Wasn't it orange?

And yes, ATI has announced that they'll be doing the physics thing as well with their crossfire stuff, but haven't provided any specifics.
a b B Homebuilt system
March 23, 2006 10:24:52 PM

"oh god... lets not get into 4th dimension crap here, "

Indeed, for shots in fps games at long range, one should have to choose a zero range on his rifle, and the game should compensate for projectile flight time at 2800 fett/sec, and ballistic trajectory for shots beyond 250 yards, assuming a 200 yard zero!!
:-)
a b B Homebuilt system
March 23, 2006 10:30:04 PM

"its because:
1) its fits into any PCI slot, which is good news to AGP users (who btw can also shift this to future rigs) "

you sure about that? Old style 33 Mhz PCI??? I would think the less than .5 GB sec throughput of an old pci slot would be a limiting factor....

I would venture to guess it is destined for a PCI-e slot.....
March 23, 2006 11:56:09 PM

Quote:
"its because:
1) its fits into any PCI slot, which is good news to AGP users (who btw can also shift this to future rigs) "

you sure about that? Old style 33 Mhz PCI??? I would think the less than .5 GB sec throughput of an old pci slot would be a limiting factor....

I would venture to guess it is destined for a PCI-e slot.....


well, according to BFG, they require a PCI 2.0 slot. they never mentioned anything about PCI-e nor AGP. either they made a HUGE mistake or aegis rocks!!!


Quote:
What we really need is two PhysX cards bridged together to handle twice as much physics, along with quad SLI Nvidia cards and two dual-core processors.


dude! didn't u read about the guy with SLI and a sound card? he ran out of PCI slots! damn, expandibility is a real issue now!
March 24, 2006 12:32:24 AM

Yeah after years of useless Pci slots we seem to be running dangerously low on them... HMMMMMMM what to do, Oh i know, design my own PCI splitter to make 2 or 3 PCI slots out of one with out losing bandwidth.... oh wait im an accountant not an engineer 8O
March 24, 2006 12:41:08 AM

A standard PCI slot will work just fine for this - don't mind the bandwidth. the calculations at the PPU level will not stretch the bandwidth at this time.

The biggest concern is that as with all 'new' technology (a PPU was highlighted some 12 months ago) none of the current mainstream software takes advantage of it. It will be a must-have for the serious gamer, but at present those games haven't yet been coded.
March 24, 2006 12:53:53 AM

Hes talking about the movie The 5th Elemet, its weird but cool. And i love this, acctual pysics within a game, explosions that look right and i is soo bad ass, i knew there was a reason to buy an Sli mobo, while buying a cheap X850XT, god i love myself for thinking ahead.
March 24, 2006 5:47:15 AM

I read about this "THING" a long time ago(half of year).
The frontmens of this "Thing" said that their wish is to build HOLODECK.
I think this is good start!
March 28, 2006 2:53:44 PM

Now, get a quad-GPU equipped system; add a double CPU, octo-core main 'processor'; plug in 2 Aegis cards (the PCI-Express single line version), a few GB of RAM (say, 32), and hook it up to a few holographic projectors (a japanese firm is getting somewhere with those).

Now all you need is a precise force field generator to create your holodeck... almost 400 years earlier than anticipated!
March 28, 2006 4:26:51 PM

Quote:
Now, get a quad-GPU equipped system; add a double CPU, octo-core main 'processor'; plug in 2 Aegis cards (the PCI-Express single line version), a few GB of RAM (say, 32), and hook it up to a few holographic projectors (a japanese firm is getting somewhere with those).

Now all you need is a precise force field generator to create your holodeck... almost 400 years earlier than anticipated!


Can we put it on a space ship yet? Nope, ok don't worry we still have a few hundred years lol.
March 29, 2006 7:06:21 AM

Well, there's no warp capable spaceship being built on Earth yet, so for now I'll just set this up in my living room...
March 29, 2006 7:22:53 AM

Hej, we can built time machine(month will be onugh) and then go 500 years in future, steal the
spice ship and came back with all standard gear.
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