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i have 4 gig mem, only says i have 3.5 gig mem? what the?

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March 24, 2006 2:39:32 AM

ok,
i got 4 gig of pc3200 dual channel memory, but in post only says i have 3.25 gig of mem? is there something tricky i have to do?

More about : gig mem gig mem

March 24, 2006 3:25:04 AM

You are running Win32 (eg: Windows XP Pro) with 4 GB.

PCI devices need various ranges of the 32 bit address space for I/O, thus that address space can not be mapped to physical memory.

:arrow: You need Windows XP x64 Edition to get the most out of consumer systems with 3 - 4 GB. That or a server OS with PAE-36 bit (Physical Address Extention) enabled and working correctly.

================================================
Goto Device Manager

View menu

Resources by connection

Expand the Memory branch out (highlight it and press *)

Maximize to fit as much information as possible.

Screenshot it, and post to your webspace, then link the image in your reply.

Given those address ranges, and CALC.EXE with hex/decimal mode, should be able to enlighten a few ppl
================================================
Related resources
March 24, 2006 3:38:45 AM

It's probably just your motherboard. Even though alot of motherboards state that they support up to 4gb, they will only read up to 3-3.5 gb of it. Look through your motherboard manual, it will most likely tell you this. I have a MSI K8N diamond Plus top of the line MB with 4x1gb OCZ platinum, but it only show up as 3 GB. You still need the 4th GB if you want to run dual channel. Has nothing to do with your operating system whatsoever, as the previous poster tried to explain. There is nothing you can do about it.
March 24, 2006 4:42:12 AM

Quote:
It's probably just your motherboard. Even though alot of motherboards state that they support up to 4gb, they will only read up to 3-3.5 gb of it. Look through your motherboard manual, it will most likely tell you this. I have a MSI K8N diamond Plus top of the line MB with 4x1gb OCZ platinum, but it only show up as 3 GB. You still need the 4th GB if you want to run dual channel. Has nothing to do with your operating system whatsoever, as the previous poster tried to explain. There is nothing you can do about it.


Firstly, this will affect systems with 4 x 1024 MB DIMMs, dual-channel or not, it will also affect Socket 754 platforms with 2 x 2048 MB DIMMs, and Socket 754 is single-channel by nature. It has affected workstation operating systems (lacking PAE-36) for years.

I can guarantee with Windows XP x64 Edition he'll see all 4 GB in System Properties and thus be able to address all of his physical memory. Versus now he only sees 3.25 GB in System Properties. (Assuming his platform as a whole supports x64 via EM64T or AMD64 extentions)

Various devices have used 'normally unused by memory' parts of the 32 bit address range for accelerated I/O for years, decades even. It is because now people have large amounts physical memory the range gets mapped to the devices for accelerated I/O, and thus can't be mapped to memory.

(eg: Some BIOS have an option to recover part of the range, or decicate part of the range for SLI use. SLI Performance is substantially higher when a wide range is dedicated to it for accelerated I/O purposes.)

The same will also apply to memory stats in Task Manager, Performance tab, and what WinVer.exe reports.

Motherboard manuals 'water down' explanations.

Since you claim to know what causes it, can you please also perform the above Device Manager check and screenshot the results ?, or are you affraid you might learn something ?

Heck, I run a Tyan K8WE, and only get 2.75 GB of my 4 GB under Win32, leaving 2 'lopsided' NUMA nodes aswell as being unable to physically address all my memory under Win32 (because of heaps of devices using said parts of the 32 bit address range). :p 

Assuming you know how chipset platforms work, and know basic hex, refer to this image:


As you can clearly see from B000,0000 to FFFF,FFFF is in use by devices on the PCI bus, and system board more towards the end of the 32 bit address space.

Being able to map physical memory in the 'available' range from 0000,0000 to B000,000 = gives a maximum mapping range of 2,952,790,016 bytes to physical memory by the (32 bit) Operating System. (Perhaps minus that 256 KB range from A,0000 to D,FFFF at certain times)

2,952,790,016 bytes = 2.75 GB - The exact amount my System Properties window displays.

With less hardware (than my example above) using the address space typical desktop machines will commonly have between 3 GB to 3.5 GB 'available range' to be mapped to physical memory.

This is one of many reasons why Microsoft have been offering free upgrades from Windows XP Pro to Windows XP x64 Edition (in exchange for your old licence though - Downside is having WinXP x64 only may limit which applications you can run in some circumstances. eg: No more backwards support for 16 bit EXEs, some installers are 16 bit and not 'substitued automatically' by the OS for 32 bit ones yet, x64 driver support for hardware, etc, etc...).

However, on a whole WinXP x64 Edition is no-where near as bad as people say it is, and the address range available to it is substantial, we are unlikely to have this 'problem' again (similar to when we went from 24-bit to 32-bit memory addressing. Yes many 16-bit processors, even some early 32-bit ones, only had a 24-bit address range at one time for RAM, back in the days when 4 MB was 'a lot of memory'.)

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension ; for a general overview of PAE (64 GB = 36 bit address range). Even though the Windows Kernel supports it, it has only (recently) combined with the NX/XD-bits to enable Enhanced Virus Protection to stop code inserted using Buffer Over-runs from executing.

The PAE 36-bit addressing feature is 'disabled' in the kernel on the 'workstation' versions of Windows. It is only used for NX/XD bit trickery (if available) once Service Pack 2 is added to Windows XP Pro/Home. (Some people may notice it says 'Physical Address Extension' in their system properties, when using 4 GB or less, and this is why.

ie: The 'workstation' versions of the Windows OS can't use PAE to map/address over 4 GB, or up to 64 GB, of RAM. They can however use it for other purposes as Microsoft deam fit (such as combing it with the NX-bit to gain security). Remember to bear in mind typically 768 MB of the address space is used for accelerated I/O, and this is already becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of total memory.
March 24, 2006 5:46:28 AM

well,
here is what i am gonna do, wait for vista, lol
guess ill have to live with it til then, lol
thanx for replies though guys, really appreciate it
March 24, 2006 5:51:05 AM

It still doesn't matter what operating system he has. It has something to due with the southbridge on the motherboards resource deployment. It is not an OS issue, it is a hardware issue.

Original poster, how much ram shows up in the BIOS?

Edit: I just noticed in the original post of this thread that the RAM is showing up as 3.25 during POST which is before the OS is even loaded. You sure did post alot of nonsense trying to prove an incorrect point.
March 24, 2006 1:19:25 PM

Quote:
It still doesn't matter what operating system he has. It has something to due with the southbridge on the motherboards resource deployment. It is not an OS issue, it is a hardware issue.

Original poster, how much ram shows up in the BIOS?

Edit: I just noticed in the original post of this thread that the RAM is showing up as 3.25 during POST which is before the OS is even loaded. You sure did post alot of nonsense trying to prove an incorrect point.


what do you consider A LOT OF NONSENSE?

what? you are making that statement cause i originally said 3.5? oh, i didnt know college professers 8O of mathematics used these forums to correct people, oh wait, YOU ARENT :o  lol get a life :p 
March 24, 2006 2:29:34 PM

The people spreading that fud should be hung and shot. You are just causing more confusion on other forums, and people who can't think and only repeat the words of others spread that FUD, and then they spread it to 7 more people, who each spread it to 7 more ppl, and so on. :p 

Anyways..... One of the fighters against FUD is here now (again): 8)

Some 'smart' BIOS will display the total memory available to a 32-bit OS env at boot. They just subtract the ranges in use by PCI/AGP/PCIe/PCI-X/etc devices (including SLI ranges) and report that amount instead.

However when systems with those same 'smart' BIOS are booted into Microsoft Windows [XP x64 Edition / Vista x64 / Server (PAE-36 enabled) / Server 2003 x64 / etc] they will report 4 GB+ instead.

(eg: If you have 6-8 GB you can still only see 3.5 GB under WinXP Pro/Home, and need either a Server edition with PAE-36 support, or an x64 native version of Windows)

Contacting Soltek, Abit, MSI, Asus, etc, aswell as Microsoft, various PCI device & chipset manufacturers (such as SiS, Intel, nVidia, AMD, ULi/ALi, Via) you can confirm this information. Thankfully I've saved you the time by doing this already.... many years ago at that. :p 
March 24, 2006 2:52:24 PM

hey,
thanx again, there is 4 gig in here, i know its here, just that the computer doesnt know its here *sigh* lol
again, i will wait for vista :) 
March 24, 2006 3:11:49 PM

hey tabris,

this is a lil off topic, but you mentioned something about 16bit extensions not being compensated for in x64.

but my question is, how does the WoW emulator work for x64, and will it also compensate for 16bit extensions or jsut 32bit ones?

and i think x64 rocks foo!
a b V Motherboard
March 24, 2006 3:16:56 PM

Quote:
ok,
i got 4 gig of pc3200 dual channel memory, but in post only says i have 3.25 gig of mem? is there something tricky i have to do?


That depends on the motherboard, I had a Tyan S2466N-4M for a while and here's an excerpt from the manual:

Supports up to 4GB* of Registered DDR 200/266
*Note: The AMD-760 MPX requires a portion of memory to be reserved for PCI devices. Allocation for these devices is dependent on the number of PCI devices installed, and option ROM for each device. Common configurations will see 3.5GB to 3.8GB of available memory.


What mobo you got? Specs are always helpful with questions like this.
March 24, 2006 6:58:15 PM

Quote:
It still doesn't matter what operating system he has. It has something to due with the southbridge on the motherboards resource deployment. It is not an OS issue, it is a hardware issue.

Original poster, how much ram shows up in the BIOS?

Edit: I just noticed in the original post of this thread that the RAM is showing up as 3.25 during POST which is before the OS is even loaded. You sure did post alot of nonsense trying to prove an incorrect point.


what do you consider A LOT OF NONSENSE?

what? you are making that statement cause i originally said 3.5? oh, i didnt know college professers 8O of mathematics used these forums to correct people, oh wait, YOU ARENT :o  lol get a life :p 



I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the other poster.
March 24, 2006 7:15:16 PM

Quote:
ok,
i got 4 gig of pc3200 dual channel memory, but in post only says i have 3.25 gig of mem? is there something tricky i have to do?


That depends on the motherboard, I had a Tyan S2466N-4M for a while and here's an excerpt from the manual:

Supports up to 4GB* of Registered DDR 200/266
*Note: The AMD-760 MPX requires a portion of memory to be reserved for PCI devices. Allocation for these devices is dependent on the number of PCI devices installed, and option ROM for each device. Common configurations will see 3.5GB to 3.8GB of available memory.


What mobo you got? Specs are always helpful with questions like this.


Exactly what I was trying to say. I don't know what "FUD" is, but it's definately what the other poster is posting.
March 24, 2006 7:19:11 PM

Quote:
The people spreading that fud should be hung and shot. You are just causing more confusion on other forums, and people who can't think and only repeat the words of others spread that FUD, and then they spread it to 7 more people, who each spread it to 7 more ppl, and so on. :p 

Anyways..... One of the fighters against FUD is here now (again): 8)

Some 'smart' BIOS will display the total memory available to a 32-bit OS env at boot. They just subtract the ranges in use by PCI/AGP/PCIe/PCI-X/etc devices (including SLI ranges) and report that amount instead.

However when systems with those same 'smart' BIOS are booted into Microsoft Windows [XP x64 Edition / Vista x64 / Server (PAE-36 enabled) / Server 2003 x64 / etc] they will report 4 GB+ instead.

(eg: If you have 6-8 GB you can still only see 3.5 GB under WinXP Pro/Home, and need either a Server edition with PAE-36 support, or an x64 native version of Windows)

Contacting Soltek, Abit, MSI, Asus, etc, aswell as Microsoft, various PCI device & chipset manufacturers (such as SiS, Intel, nVidia, AMD, ULi/ALi, Via) you can confirm this information. Thankfully I've saved you the time by doing this already.... many years ago at that. :p 



In some configurations, you may be right. I guess you didn't read his original post close enough. HE IS SEEING LESS THAN 4GB IN POST, WHICH IS BEFORE THE OS IS EVEN LOADED. IT IS NOT AN OS ISSUE. QUIT MAKING YOURSELF LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT. IT IS HIS MOTHERBOARD WHICH IS SEEING LESS THAN THE 4GB, WHICH IS CAUSING WINDOWS TO SEE LESS ALSO. I CANNOT MAKE MYSELF ANY MORE CLEAR. You should quit saying that i'm posting "FUD" or whatever the hell that is, when it's you that is the one posting it. I guess you're the one that should be hung and shot.
March 24, 2006 7:31:09 PM







couple of pics to prove my point. There are plenty more MB's that do the same thing, just didn't feel like posting up an assload of pics.
March 24, 2006 7:49:00 PM

That's normal and stop freaking out. I have my 4 Gb ram displayed at 3.2, so don't worry about it. Get CPU-Z and you'll find out you have 4 Gb of memory. :roll:
March 24, 2006 8:15:25 PM

For work, I used a dual-Xeon 3.6 GHz with 4 GB of RAM and Win XP Pro 32 bit. Try disabling your pagefile/virtual memory, and then Windows should be able to see it.
August 19, 2008 4:58:56 PM

Just to clear this up, and I am not computer tech, it is the operating system. My computer is the proof. I am Vista 64 bit on one drive and xp 32 on another.. If i boot into the xp, my computer sees 3.5 gig of ram.. or at least 3.5 is available. I can see this through a game that I play that shows me the memory avail and mem in use.

When I boot into Vista 64 bit. My computer sees 4 gig and so does the game. I do not know the exact reasoning for this, although the arguments made prior to this post seem to have that covered.

Anyway, I just wanted to write this to let you know that it is NOT the motherboard. :) 
a b V Motherboard
August 20, 2008 8:27:15 PM

knupxfon - you should make sure you are right before being so arrogant in denouncing others. I suggest reading these posts from windows.com (guess whose website?).

This one explains how SP1 did not overcome memory limit in XP (seems most everyone but you already knows it is there):

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroup...

Or this one that states the memory limitation is still in 32bit Vista

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroup...

You should apologize for attacking someone and saying they looked like an idiot. Childish name calling has no place here and only shows your own immaturity. But since you are also wrong, the only one looking like an idiot here is you. Did you ever stop to think who makes up the standards for how the mobos and OS work together? Do you think each of the mobo manufacturers tells Microsoft how to build to make the OS? Or did you apply a little common sense - if in the mobo, why did not any mobo manufacturer overcome the limit for his boards and have a huge marketing advantage for that board?
August 21, 2008 10:46:34 PM

the last post on this thread was 3-24-2006 don't think knupxfon is watching this thread anymore =)
August 21, 2008 10:50:08 PM

i was pretty sure that a 32bit windows wont recognize a full 4 gigs, and anything more than that is a waist... untill you get a 64x or a linux o.s.
April 14, 2009 11:59:32 PM

I came across this problem as well. I just ran that CPU-Z program and it does display that I have 4 gigs - 4096 mbytes. Windows displays it as 3.25 GB of Ram.

So my question is... do my programs / windows / etc actually use all 4 gigs? Or is it completely shut out and locked at 3.25? Or is it really using all 4 gigs and just can't display that it's using all 4 gigs.

Thanks.
April 15, 2009 7:33:51 PM

Please do not necromance ancient posts from 3 years ago. Not cool, dude. This question has been answered several hundred times on this forum alone. If you still can't figure out the problem from 12 seconds of googling or using the forum search function, you have a problem.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html
a b } Memory
a b V Motherboard
April 16, 2009 3:50:22 PM

Second time I posted this *today*. The average is something like 3 times a week, for the last year.


< Really Wishes People Would Learn to Use the Search Function >



In a computer all bytes in the memory system need a unique name. This is called an address. For example, if you have 2 GB of main memory, then there are 2147483648 bytes of RAM in your machine, each of which require an address for the operating system to communicate to it. To give these all an address you need 31 bits to do it. Now, if/when you have 32 bits, you can name 4 GB (2 bytes to the 32nd power = 4GB).

This is why the total addressable space available in a 32 bit OS is 4GB – the OS runs out of addresses and cannot communicate/locate any more bytes of memory because of that.

You may think ”Hey, 4GB of address space… 4GB of RAM… What’s the problem” The problem is that memory isn’t the only thing needing an address. If you install a total of 4GB worth of RAM, the system will detect/use/display less than 4GB of total memory because of address space allocation for other critical functions, such as:

- System BIOS (including motherboard, add-on cards, etc..)
- Motherboards resources
- Memory mapped I/O
- Configuration for AGP/PCI-Ex/PCI
- Other memory allocations for PCI devices

Different onboard devices and different add-on cards (devices) will result of different total memory size. e.g. more PCI cards installed will require more memory resources, resulting of less memory free for other uses.

This limitation applies to most chipsets & Windows XP/Vista 32-bit version operating systems. Again, this is a limitation of the Operating System not having enough address space to allocate to the system *and* the RAM. Not allocating address space to devices renders them inoperable. Not allocating addresses to RAM simply results in the unaddressed section not being used in an otherwise fully functional computer. Therefore the OS designers assign RAM last.



If you install a Windows operating system, and if more than 3GB memory is required for your system, then the below conditions must be met:

1. A memory controller which supports memory swap functionality is used. The latest chipsets like Intel 975X, 955X, Nvidia NF4 SLI Intel Edition, Nvidia NF4 SLI X16, AMD K8 and newer architectures can support the memory swap function.

2. Installation of Windows XP Pro X64 Ed. (64-bit), Windows Vista 64, or other OS which can provide more than 4GB worth of address space.
April 17, 2009 12:41:59 PM

knupxfon said:
Quote:
The people spreading that fud should be hung and shot. You are just causing more confusion on other forums, and people who can't think and only repeat the words of others spread that FUD, and then they spread it to 7 more people, who each spread it to 7 more ppl, and so on. :p 

Anyways..... One of the fighters against FUD is here now (again): 8)

Some 'smart' BIOS will display the total memory available to a 32-bit OS env at boot. They just subtract the ranges in use by PCI/AGP/PCIe/PCI-X/etc devices (including SLI ranges) and report that amount instead.

However when systems with those same 'smart' BIOS are booted into Microsoft Windows [XP x64 Edition / Vista x64 / Server (PAE-36 enabled) / Server 2003 x64 / etc] they will report 4 GB+ instead.

(eg: If you have 6-8 GB you can still only see 3.5 GB under WinXP Pro/Home, and need either a Server edition with PAE-36 support, or an x64 native version of Windows)

Contacting Soltek, Abit, MSI, Asus, etc, aswell as Microsoft, various PCI device & chipset manufacturers (such as SiS, Intel, nVidia, AMD, ULi/ALi, Via) you can confirm this information. Thankfully I've saved you the time by doing this already.... many years ago at that. :p 



In some configurations, you may be right. I guess you didn't read his original post close enough. HE IS SEEING LESS THAN 4GB IN POST, WHICH IS BEFORE THE OS IS EVEN LOADED. IT IS NOT AN OS ISSUE. QUIT MAKING YOURSELF LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT. IT IS HIS MOTHERBOARD WHICH IS SEEING LESS THAN THE 4GB, WHICH IS CAUSING WINDOWS TO SEE LESS ALSO. I CANNOT MAKE MYSELF ANY MORE CLEAR. You should quit saying that i'm posting "FUD" or whatever the hell that is, when it's you that is the one posting it. I guess you're the one that should be hung and shot.




ok lets all just relax, It is BOTH the 32bit motherboard AND 32bit OS that has the issue... If you boot 4 gigs on a 64bit mobo, you'll see 4gig in post, and if u boot a 32bit os on that mobo, you'll see the 4 gig MINUS the allocation to devices in windows. Because the original poster is seeing 3.25gig in POST, the issue is nothing to do with the OS, and he can try windows 2020 256bit os if he likes, he wont be able to address the 4gig
April 27, 2009 7:23:05 PM

azlo said:
ok lets all just relax, It is BOTH the 32bit motherboard AND 32bit OS that has the issue... If you boot 4 gigs on a 64bit mobo, you'll see 4gig in post, and if u boot a 32bit os on that mobo, you'll see the 4 gig MINUS the allocation to devices in windows. Because the original poster is seeing 3.25gig in POST, the issue is nothing to do with the OS, and he can try windows 2020 256bit os if he likes, he wont be able to address the 4gig


I actually ran into this the other day and forgot to take into account this information. This is the best explanation for the problem. Yes, both original debaters were/are correct. It can be both a motherboard issue and an operation system issue. Some motherboards are built with only 32 bit support native to the chipsets used, this would allow only a maximum of 3.5 GB's to be reported during post, and even if using Vista 64 bit in this case, would still only show 3.5 GB's of memory as the motherboard itself couldn't register the full 4 GB. On the other hand, with a motherboard that supports 64 bit and 3d bit Windows XP, again only 3.5 GB's would show up. I just assume that after 2-3 years, I'm sure the original poster has upgraded to a 64 bit motherboard and can or has been using Vista at this point. Hahaha.
April 27, 2009 7:29:54 PM

This is one of the worst cases of internet flaming I have ever seen... Turns out the dude getting flames was correct, hahahaha. The Mobo limited the physical memory to 3.5 GB's, prior to the OS loading. Hahahaha...
a b } Memory
a c 177 V Motherboard
April 29, 2009 5:45:41 PM

Quote:
"I've had it, this more than I can bare!"

--------------------quoted from a TweakTown post, dated today...

I feel compelled to speak to this:

This exchange exemplifies why I recently took a ten day or so hiatus from answering posts here (during which I also got an enormous amount of work done – new BIOS release, Win7x86&x64 7068->7077->RC1, tweaking, tuning, modding, testing…) to consider whether this was a worthwhile enterprise. This post takes in excess of twenty insulting exchanges to establish two plain, irrefutable facts, apparently to no one’s satisfaction: 1 – there are still MOBOs around (though none, I believe, in the current channel) that are hardware-limited to thirty-two address lines or fewer, and therefore are intrinsically limited to <4G; and, 2 – that any thirty-two bit OS is similarly limited to 4G, and must use some of that to address memory-mapped I/O devices, leaving it, inevitably, to show less than 4G available. Does establishing that these two things are facts demand insults and hyperbole?

I used to try to answer as many questions as I could here, both to be of service, and because I learn a lot of things that may be handy to me as I throw together the seven systems currently on my 'to be built' list. I have TRIED to overlook the ignorance, the egregious misspellings, the inability to form a grammatically correct sentence; sometimes I just can’t resist commenting. GOD forbid! The PC Police are always lurking to jump down your throat. I blame it mostly on the educational system, and the media. Discussions have gotten ruder and more aggressive; people whose obvious main ability is to harbor ignorant beliefs will repeatedly state them as facts, and civility has taken a dump!

Charles Murray (of ‘Bell Curve’ fame [or infamy, depending upon your attitude toward his revelations]) recently wrote a book about our education system, and its systemic failings; some of his points, I feel, are cogent to this matter, and bear repeating:

A. Half the population, BY DEFINITION, is BELOW AVERAGE! “You can lead a horse to water, but you CAN”T teach him calculus!” If you have minimal, or no, math skills; if you have only a vague idea of what is meant by ‘hexadecimal’ or ‘binary’, if you never did well in (or avoided completely) science and math courses – you probably SHOULDN’T be attempting to build a computer… The PC idiots have promoted the idea that everything (and everyone) is equal; that a PET scan (based on particle physics, and incredibly complex computer geometric analysis), Christian Science (based on faith that some possible omnipotent being will take responsibility to heal you), and homeopathic medicine (based on consuming poisonous ‘antidotes’ at dilutions beyond one molecule per MORE than the number of atoms in the WHOLE KNOWN UNIVERSE), are equally valid – are simply a difference of opinion. Well, I’m here to say that your opinion that your pile of parts SHOULD work together to somehow ‘become’ a computer will NOT make it function!
B. More than half the recent products of this educational system have an attention span that does not extend beyond texting two lines of grammar-free nonsense full of ‘texting contractions’, which means they have NO frustration tolerance. They’ve never been asked to ‘stretch’ their minds, to tackle something beyond their immediate grasp. Everything in their path has been so ‘dumbed-down’ that they assume any endeavor requiring more than an hour is somehow intrinsically faulty. I spent more than a hundred hours doing ‘due diligence’ research for my upcoming workstation build before ever ordering part one! These kids literally can’t imagine such an undertaking, much less believe that it might be necessary. They don’t ‘get’ the underlying math ( http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/254636-30-memory-volt... ), and they petulantly “want what they want” – the fastest parts advertised, with no comprehension of what they’re paying for, or getting, or what may be required to make it function. The computer media contribute to this problem. Their articles (to suit their confirmed knowledge about their readership) are too short to contain adequate technical discussion to expose potential problems (which their average reader doesn’t want to have to try to read, anyway…); take a ‘cheer-leader’ approach [see 1 below] to make their advertisers happy; and often present a computer ‘build’ in less than two pages, making it appear as if getting a dozen or two disparate parts to function together was merely a matter of assembly. The underlying problem here is that, if the parts themselves were technically and electronically ‘dumbed-down’, to the point where anything would work with anything (which is certainly, in most cases, possible – I hardly ever answer a question about getting 667 RAM to work), there would be NO ‘high-performance’ systems – no real REASON to ‘roll your own’. You certainly can’t BUY the parts cheaper than Dell, when they order in ten or hundred thousand lots. Such a ‘dumbing-down’ of underlying specifications would eliminate the X48 MCH, PC-9600 RAM, and Q9660 CPUs – and what would remain as the point?
C. A new phenomenon has been noted by university educators in the past ten or fifteen years – students arguing aggressively with professors regarding grades on egregiously bad papers. Their main point seems to center around the concept “that’s just your opinion”; they don’t get the idea that, well, yes, that’s my opinion, but my opinion is based on my experiences of twenty years as a tenured professor in this field, and yours is based on being a dip-stick!
D. The PC police, based on this erroneous assumption of essential equivalency, will argue that poor grammar, and worse spelling don’t matter. But they DO! When I read a post full of jumbled ideas and ridden with unbelievable misspellings, I immediately know that I’m dealing with someone whose jumbled thinking and basic ignorance will become a problem, if not THE problem. (Try this: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/254649-30-ep35c-dsr3-... ) If you don’t think this is FAIR (by the way – let me point out right here that LIFE is NOT fair), read Noam Chomsky to explore the relationship between command of language, and the ability to accurately manipulate abstract thoughts – they’re one and the same… You may not like those assumptions (and you might do well to give some thought to what a prospective employer will assume about your capabilities when you present him with an incomprehensible application full of misspellings, a bead in your nose, and an offensive tattoo on your wrist), but they are joined in reality by a high degree of statistical correlation; no amount of ‘opinion’, or ‘belief’, or ‘wish’, on your part will alter that correlation!

Sorry if I’ve offended (and I’m quite sure that I have), but every word can be confirmed just by going to New Egg’s ‘Eggspert’ forum and reading the posts!

1 – I used to subscribe to PC Magazine, as they were fairly technical, and basically honest in their reviewing. This was back during the days when the physical retrieval of a data stream from a hard drive was so slow, that there was much to be gained by doing LZW compression in hardware, on the way in and out. One day I received an issue in which they reviewed a drive controller card which they were never able to make work, although they tried it in several systems, and had access to a level of tech support from the manufacturer ( who, since, I am glad to report, has gone out of business) that no user could ever get – and they wound up giving it an eight or nine rating, out of a possible ten, BASED ON THE FEATURES LISTED ON THE BOX!!! That very day, I sent them my cancellation notice!
a b } Memory
a b V Motherboard
April 29, 2009 7:21:10 PM

Thanks for that billbat. Talkin' 'bout my generation at fifty-four, yeah we are the product of an era where our parents and grandparents taught us hard work and dedication would pay off in the end. We had somethng to strive for, becoming successful and making a difference in life. My wife was a professor at Washington University for six years. We have been in private practice for the past 23 years. Talking about idiots! I think our offices cater to the half of the population that is below average you pinpointed. Like the patient we have living in the motel. The state pays for everything. He just comes in high and marvels at modern technoloy. When He lands a unit closeby. He barely has a higher IQ than the guy who comes in shackled and escorted by a corrections officer. I tell 'ya, it's hard to get people to fill out a form asking for name, address and employer. And that's the English speaking public. The foreigners (Ha!) have a problem filling out a form 'written in their own language!' Hey a three year old flame riddled thread on Tom's. I should link the one where the guy is waiting for the release of pci-e ssd's. Or as He put's it:

A MOD called this recent post SPAM. :lol:  I quote:

lol its seems so cuz ms is making xp available thru Virtual Technology on W7... and other similarities like the eye candy+instability...not sure if i remember correctly but i think xp is win me with the the stability of win2k or server or somethin havin to do with the nt kernel lol and uh isnt w7 suppose to be vista with the stability of xp????...i guess its for compatability...seems like os's are dropping very often... due to them taking time to make it some what stable it feels like vista came out last year...i have a new system build in mind but im considering holding off till w7 drops...dont wanna buy vista and 6 months down the line i gotta upgrade again...maybe usb 3 will be out by the time w7 drops along with some affordable pci-e ssd's...but this p4 1.8 ghz 1.25gb ram geforce ti 4400 that was the ish about 6-7? years ago is killin me...i make instrumentals and wanna use multiple programs via re-wire and its impossible to do more than 7 tracks on this...anyway, im just rambling what was the point of this post again?

whats with the periods???............................... lol i dunno


a b } Memory
a c 177 V Motherboard
April 30, 2009 3:21:01 PM

sic:

To the people who say this board doesn't overclock you obvioulsy don't have much overclocking experiance,

Phone support is adaquet if you get a person that speaks fluent enough to understand.

I have never OC's but plan on learning on this board/CPU; which by all accounts will not dissapoint.

and the tuning softare program

I'm not a gammer, my system is basically for photo and video editing...Newegg service is top notch, recieved all parts except CPU

The board most likely wont break, but if you get that low possibility that it does your in for a headache

Windows loads noticeable faster as well.

With intels pricing stratagy change, saved quite a bit of money

multiplier of 8.5. weird? I also noticed after doing comes OC that multiplier changed to 8 and I was not able to set it back to 8.5. I did not do allot of testing

The fastners of heatsink/fan came with this CPU are all plastic, instead of attached on a metal piece. Two out of four fastners broke during installation. I temporalily use one from my junk box.

this one is REALLY great:
Pros: Very nice controller. Color screen, bright back light. This devise is very easy to set up. Nice and sharp looking!

Cons: I did not think the wires where long aknuf for some one who is doing a "REAL" custom case and a very nice case mod. I was stretching it to find ways to get my wires to reach, I have this in the new CoolMaster Centurion and this is a BIG case! You rely cannot see the screen from to far off center, as other stated.

Other Thoughts: Unlike what others have seed, If you are expecting "LONG" cabling like others stated, then don't expect these to be "LONG" like you are wanting.

mine came dented on the back. No biggie. Just pushed it out as there was no hard bends. The IR receiver takes up a DIMM slot, I''m sure they could of did better here.

I did not think the wires where long aknuf for some one who is doing
& same guy:
Unlike what others have seed, If you are expecting "LONG" cabling like others stated, then don't expect these to be "LONG" like you are wanting.

this is not a disaster but sure is enoying at times

People have already mention, but display can only be seen from straight angle
& same guy:
Get a display that has better veiwing angles

Four fan guages that react very well to manual rpm changes. The power guage works as well.

Know about LCD display problem before purchase, so can't really complain.

with the control I have in this unit with (4) 120mm runnign at 1200rpm.

Awesome fan controler. Does a great job at what it's designed to do. Popwermeter is very cool.

If you stand above youre computer you can not read the screen.

Fan controll at your fingertips and temp monitoring and power use at a glance.The tape that is included to hold the temp snsors does not hold that well

The power supply is a long distance for the motherboard powerchord to reach.

There are tons of people me included that cannot set the drives up in a raid array, get data corruption upon installation of any windows opperating system, and or studdering once windows is installed.

Anyway Even thou the throughput of the drives is nice, I will be buying the Super Talents still because they perform solid across the board read or write it doesn't bog down as bad even thou it's slower doing the operations its more consistant.

This is the WHOLE sentence posted: I tend to but a load on it. ??

Nust need more of it.

It kept getting worse and worser.

Unlike what others have seed, If you are expecting "LONG" cabling like others stated, then don't expect these to be "LONG" like you are wanting.

Cons: A bit loud, and after nine or ten months, it began "ticking". One LED went out. Just noticed today (15 months after purchase) that it's dead, but it did a great job while it worked.
Other Thoughts: Cat hair may have been this fan's demise.

5.9 score in Vista x64 for those that care. I don't it goes higher then that right now?

Will most likely be traing OCZ ram for the 1st time.

Not a bad fan for the price. Sounds ok, not to laud. Very basic.

what are the best settings for this broad with this memory?

You dont read many newegg reviews do you....? Atleast 85% of the people posted are certified retarted.

someone please help i hv a problem causing setup win xp2 on GA-EP35-DS3 (rev. 2.1) but i cant done it.

Hi, thanks for your reply. I mite try again with the memory settings.

I've been having problems with my Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R sens i first got it it's not broken, it just won't work

I've pulled absoultely everything off the board

Sorry by the question, but are you sure LSD? Have you really tried to use Raid array in another board with "almost" the same chipset (a evolutions of the old chipset) or it´s a theoric fail if we try it?? Any practice experience of that or theorically?

I now understand that IT IS! a "issue" with the board in the way i suspected all along, witch is the voltages to the RAM. It also turns out I had a set of (in a way) faulty RAM. These modules by Crucial had a manufacture problem and I would never have known this if I hadn't spent all this time as you say "wining about it" so don't tell me I don't have the patience. I'm now getting new sticks from Crucial thue I've got a lifetime warranty.

not a single hick up in the process

Remove your ram of your computer..and then star them. If your pc makes noices.. shutdown. If they didn't respond you motherboard its death. then , placed the ram in the corecly place. and remove the battery that you find bettowen vga slot and other.. after about 10 sec placed the battery in the place and star. if you have made this and your problem dose not fix. Try to remove your cpu and make sure that it they well placed the refrigeration of processor...

I have a newish PC that has had sound interferenace from the start.
a b } Memory
a b V Motherboard
April 30, 2009 7:18:32 PM


< Head Explodes >
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