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AGP & PCIE boards any other's besides Asrock

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March 25, 2006 1:46:26 PM

My ol Mobo is daid. I need a new one but don't want to throw out my ATI X800 XT PE. So I'm looking at dual format boards so I can keep my x800 and upgrade to PCIE when I think that card has "had it". I know ASrock makes the dual format boards but it has a mixed reviews and compatipility problems with high end AGP cards. So the question is does anyone ELSE make a dual graphics format board?

Thanks in advance...

Da Worfster

More about : agp pcie boards asrock

March 25, 2006 3:40:20 PM

ECS makes a bunch of dual format boards, but they're all junk in terms of AGP performance. They kluge on an AGP slot using the PCI bus and it works with some cards, but the performance just isn't there.
March 25, 2006 6:52:56 PM

ASRoc can be flaky sometimes but I believe they are better than ECS and probably better than anyone else offering boards with AGP and PCI-Express.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=EN...

Some people consider ECS/PC Chips one of the worst manufacturers.

Nice P-47 by the way :-D

Qapla!
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March 25, 2006 7:14:03 PM

hmm I am suffering a slow down at times with my video card and I've got a Via {POS} mobo, my vid card is AGP and the Mobo has both PCI_e and AGP.

So you think my slow down is due to the mobo and if I upgrade to PCI_e the slow down would go away.

I'm not playing games, just heavy 2D work. I was thinking that the card was the problem because it was cheap too, but 2D work isn't that demanding right? The card I have now is Gforce fx5200 and I'm using it in Dual monitor mode.

Would it be better to go to a 2D card like Matrox 650p or what?

TIA.
March 25, 2006 7:17:14 PM

The 5200 is the slowest card in the 5xxx line.

Going PCI-E would help but you also need a decent card like a 7600GT or 7900GT.

I would recommend nForce4 + PCI-E + a 7600GT or 7900GT.

The X1900 series is good too but the 7900GT / GTX = better.

PS Sorry to say Matrox has not produced a competitive card in a long time. They now produce mostly specialty hardware.
March 25, 2006 7:31:42 PM

well that figures... I also have a gforce4 TI 4200 64MB in another machine. Do you think this card is faster than the FX5200?

I got the Via mobo in a combo deal as I couldn't even buy the processor for what they were selling both for... so that's how I got sucked into this {POS}

But performance wise everything is good except for the graphic slow down.
March 25, 2006 8:03:24 PM

Well you could try a better AGP VGA card like the 6600GT AGP or 6800GS AGP or 7800GS AGP.... the 6600GT is not a very good deal any more but it's still a decent card.

What are the rest of your specs?
March 25, 2006 9:38:11 PM

Quote:
Well you could try a better AGP VGA card like the 6600GT AGP or 6800GS AGP or 7800GS AGP.... the 6600GT is not a very good deal any more but it's still a decent card.

What are the rest of your specs?


ECS K8T890A [VIA]
Amd X2 3800+
1GB Crucial Ram 3200
Gforce FX5200 128MB
on board sound... don't really use it... tho it is enabled.
Sony CD burner 32x
Drives are in a caddy bay system most are seagate ATA100
Antec 400w smart power PSU

I think if I were to buy another vid card it would most likely have to be PCI-express. AGP is dead and I have plenty of old AGP cards laying around. My main board does have a PCI_e slot. Question is could my PSU handle a PCI_e card?

which in your opinion is faster for Dual Monitor 2D work? [I have all of these]


[*:95d2dd78a2] Gforce 4 Ti 4200 64MB
[*:95d2dd78a2] Gforce FX5200 128MB
[*:95d2dd78a2] Matrox G400 32MB
March 25, 2006 10:12:34 PM

Quote:
Well you could try a better AGP VGA card like the 6600GT AGP or 6800GS AGP or 7800GS AGP.... the 6600GT is not a very good deal any more but it's still a decent card.

What are the rest of your specs?


ECS K8T890A [VIA]
Amd X2 3800+
1GB Crucial Ram 3200
Gforce FX5200 128MB
on board sound... don't really use it... tho it is enabled.
Sony CD burner 32x
Drives are in a caddy bay system most are seagate ATA100
Antec 400w smart power PSU

I think if I were to buy another vid card it would most likely have to be PCI-express. AGP is dead and I have plenty of old AGP cards laying around. My main board does have a PCI_e slot. Question is could my PSU handle a PCI_e card?

which in your opinion is faster for Dual Monitor 2D work? [I have all of these]


[*:fc1b969355] Gforce 4 Ti 4200 64MB
[*:fc1b969355] Gforce FX5200 128MB
[*:fc1b969355] Matrox G400 32MB



I'm not 100% sure -- out of all those cards the FX5200 128MB should probably be fastest in 2D mode.

With Dual monitors though it is a little different... I suspect you might have a driver problem.

Check to make sure you have the latest drivers for all your components and disable any onboard devices you do not need (sound, floppy, parallel & serial ports, etc).

On a system like yours you shouldn't be having any performance issues.

I would also urge you to upgrade to an nVidia nForce4 based motherboard ASAP.
March 25, 2006 10:49:07 PM

Quote:

PS Sorry to say Matrox has not produced a competitive card in a long time. They now produce mostly specialty hardware.


yeah that's why I was drawn to them because I am running financial charts when the slow downs occur and they specialize in this stuff. It only happens when price activity is very active. Otherwise everything is fine.

In fact I may try switching back an forth with this card again this next week between single monitor and dual monitor if I can do it without shutting the computer down to see if that is where the problem is.

Because if I can then view the charts in single monitor mode, then I will know for sure the card is maxed out.

Because everything works great except for this little problem.
March 26, 2006 1:08:27 AM

It's hard to tell...

Are your financial charts being generated in a web browser or by a financial application running on your machine?

Do they run much faster in single monitor mode?
March 26, 2006 1:20:31 AM

Quote:
It's hard to tell...

Are your financial charts being generated in a web browser or by a financial application running on your machine?

Do they run much faster in single monitor mode?


The charts are run from a financial application.

I don't know, but I would suspect that switching to single monitor mode on the video card would free up some resources. Hopefully enough to view the charts.
March 26, 2006 2:03:12 AM

Quote:
My ol Mobo is daid. I need a new one but don't want to throw out my ATI X800 XT PE. So I'm looking at dual format boards so I can keep my x800 and upgrade to PCIE when I think that card has "had it". I know ASrock makes the dual format boards but it has a mixed reviews and compatipility problems with high end AGP cards. So the question is does anyone ELSE make a dual graphics format board?

Thanks in advance...

Da Worfster



A nice nForce3 board with AGP would work:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...


You could later upgrade to a nice nForce4 board for about $80 - $100 + the cost of a PCI-Express VGA.


Qapla! :-D
March 26, 2006 3:05:56 AM

Hummm... reading the rest of the posts here, I'm wondering about your slowdown. Normally I wouldn't say that you would suffer in 2D mode even with the PCI express. My comment was directed primarily in lack of 3D capability with that setup. I'm kinda surprised that you experience the slowdown on that rig with your 2D financial graphing. Maybe the dual monitor setup...
March 26, 2006 12:34:00 PM

Quote:
Hummm... reading the rest of the posts here, I'm wondering about your slowdown. Normally I wouldn't say that you would suffer in 2D mode even with the PCI express. My comment was directed primarily in lack of 3D capability with that setup. I'm kinda surprised that you experience the slowdown on that rig with your 2D financial graphing. Maybe the dual monitor setup...



I suspect the dual monitor setup because I've heard / read about similar problems all over the place. That was my initial guess.
March 26, 2006 1:16:50 PM

Quote:
Hummm... reading the rest of the posts here, I'm wondering about your slowdown. Normally I wouldn't say that you would suffer in 2D mode even with the PCI express. My comment was directed primarily in lack of 3D capability with that setup. I'm kinda surprised that you experience the slowdown on that rig with your 2D financial graphing. Maybe the dual monitor setup...



I suspect the dual monitor setup because I've heard / read about similar problems all over the place. That was my initial guess.

ok, I'll find out more come Monday. I'll switch to single mode when I experience the slow down and see what happens.

Thanks for the replies.
March 26, 2006 1:48:37 PM

http://www.asrock.com/product/939Dual-SATA2.htm

The Asrock 939Dual-SATA2 is the only board I am aware of with both a decent AGP and decent PCIe x16 implementation.

The AGP implemenation is so good on that board, Using two equal cards, one AGP, one PCIe x16, the card in the AGP slot is 1-2% faster.

However PCIe x16 offers far, far, far better Video cards / GPUs than AGP does at the high end.

For an upgrader coming from AGP it is the perfect board.

All other boards I know of with AGP and PCIe x16 do dodgy routing to connect AGP via the slow, and saturated, PCI (original) bus via the SouthBridge.

When setup correctly it is quite nice, but some people dis Asrock and dis ULi chipsets because they've never tried one.



Trying new things can be scary at first. :lol:  :p 

However you seam like an open and honest enough dude, so people here can help you out.

Most of us share MSN and have 1/3rd the members on our Forum buddy lists. 8)



PS: Chart draw slowdown can be caused by not running in 32 bit colour (really 24 bit, but well...), as it dithers otherwise, you may also need a more decent CPU if drawing charts all the time. Or software that takes advantage of a dual-core CPU if drawing heaps of charts very often. :p 
March 26, 2006 2:55:22 PM

Quote:


PS: Chart draw slowdown can be caused by not running in 32 bit colour (really 24 bit, but well...), as it dithers otherwise, you may also need a more decent CPU if drawing charts all the time. Or software that takes advantage of a dual-core CPU if drawing heaps of charts very often. :p 


a more decent cpu? I have Amd X2 3800+, both cpus are used I hover around 70-80% the whole cpu is not even being used. :?

I have the vid card set at 16bit. I'll try 32 bit and see if it makes a difference.

BTW, Running Win2k pro.
March 26, 2006 3:07:50 PM

If it hits ~75% over a 3 to 5 second period while updating the graphs that means it is actually hitting 100% usage ~75% of the time, in that 3-5 second period.

It could be CPU... or rather poor software hamming the CPU.
March 26, 2006 4:05:29 PM

Quote:
If it hits ~75% over a 3 to 5 second period while updating the graphs that means it is actually hitting 100% usage ~75% of the time, in that 3-5 second period.

It could be CPU... or rather poor software hamming the CPU.



ok now that doesn't make any sense because the processor can only do the work that's there to be done. So how can the processor hit 100% and not show it?

I encoded some video at 99-100% cpu load for an hour the cpu was pegged at 99-100%... it has the work so the cpu is doing it. If the work is not there the processor is not going to be at 100% for 75% of the time. Sorry that is non-sense.
March 27, 2006 7:24:05 AM

It is by very high resolution 'granularity of measurement' it can be noticed.

In a CPU there is no 50% load, it is either at 100% or it isn't for a given clock cycle. Technically there is now, because of power management, etc, but the software can't reall 'see' that happening in real-time. (and I really mean real-time here, not process priority levels :p ). Then you've got to add pipeline depth (number of stages) and width (number of issues) to it, and 'average' what is going on over all of them.... etc, etc

As the smallest unit of measurement the Task Manager is going to report is a timeslice (apx 20 ms, can be variable length though) it will just see how many clock cycles it was 'at load' for in a given timeslive. Then the graph spits it out as a percentage, of load per timeslice over 3-5 second period.

That 3-5 sec sampling doesn't help either. :p 

If you could sample it 1 billion times a second, (A lot of data in a graph that you couldn't animate at that speed, and you'd need 1 GB of memory to store the data :p ), you'd be able to notice the square wave if you 'zoomed' in enough on the data.

It is sort of like zooming in on a WAV file until you can see only 1024 samples (assuming 1024 values visible within window on screen, which at 1152 and above is possible),... at 96 Khz the whole screen width is only going to be 93.75 ms of audio. Some audio software can do this, but audio waves are analog in nature.

Unrelated Tip: When splicing audio waves to join to others, always do it where the wave intersects zero, for each splice, then jon them. This stops pops/clicking in your audio. 8) - That is an example of what high resolution 'zooming' can do for wave forms. But for what is a square wave it only partially applies. Hopefully my point is clear though. :) 
March 27, 2006 10:54:04 AM

Quote:
Hummm... reading the rest of the posts here, I'm wondering about your slowdown. Normally I wouldn't say that you would suffer in 2D mode even with the PCI express. My comment was directed primarily in lack of 3D capability with that setup. I'm kinda surprised that you experience the slowdown on that rig with your 2D financial graphing. Maybe the dual monitor setup...



I suspect the dual monitor setup because I've heard / read about similar problems all over the place. That was my initial guess.


Ok I did several things once the slow down occured again.

I ran several tests....

changed the order color lines on the chart to a greyish color... no difference.

changed video card to 32bit, 16 bit color depth..... no difference.

Changed to single monitor......... no difference.

have all advanced functions shut off on video card.... no difference.

dual core processor hovering at near 80% using both cores.
October 18, 2006 2:34:33 PM

Unless you haven't figured it out yet, the board you are running actually has something ECS calls an AGP-Express slot, when using an AGP card it dumbs the speed down to equal a PCI slots speed, so it's not nearly or even close to the speed of a normal 8x or even 4x AGP slot. Horrible design, but it's not your card, it's your motherboard.
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