intel's QRTD is a total joke!

[Viperabyss]

INQ reported that intel's so called "new" technology for ViiV, "Quick Resume Technology Driver", is nothing but a program that turns off the screen, mutes the sound, and switch the LED from bright green to dark orange.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30647
intel's own webpage seems to confirm this too:
http://www.intel.com/support/entertainment/viiv/sb/cs-021742.htm
(take a look at their bullet points)
i'm really wondering why intel is coming up all these names for things that have existed for the past 5 years? are they really running out new inventions, so that they just keep naming and branding old stuff to maintain their competitiveness?

 

[Ycon]

Who cares?

 

[luminaris]

I often wonder about this whole viiv thing. I'm thinking they may be setting it up to use with the robson cache in the future as, another power saving feature.

Just my thought

 

[mpasternak]

well i got antoher question then.. if this power saving thing is just dumping memory to hard drive... why dump the memory...

I KNOW I KNOW that when there is no power to the RAM it looses it's data.


BUT. on modern ATX boards. there is always power going to the motherboard. why not just have standby mode shut down the CPU / Hard drives / display adapters and all the heavy use stuff and fans.

and just leave enough voltage to the ram and maybe have the CPU clock down to like 20mhz in an "idle" mode so that the ram data is still there. it would just appear that everyhting is off and that barely any power is drawn

 

[luminaris]

Well, that's where the robson cache comes into play. If all is true, at the IDF, Intel showed that their laptops equipped with robson cache, came to life in less than half the time than a non equipped laptop.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

Who cares?

Here is an idea Ycon: Perhaps you should formulate an opinion and back it with facts. This will make you seem inteligent and thoughtful. The original poster presented his opinion and the backed it with facts from two different sources including the manufacture's own website.

Viperabyss has made an extremely valid point: The technology basically does nothing more than turn your monitor and sound off. It affects the computer in no other way. Memory is not sent to RAM. Everything runs as if you just went up to the computer and turned the monitor off and muted the volume.

Key features of Intel QRTD are:
- Places the Intel Viiv technology-based PC in Quick Resume mode by pressing the power button on the PC or remote control (after initial boot, when activated).
- Returns the Intel Viiv technology-based PC from Quick Resume mode by moving the mouse, pressing an on/off key on the keyboard (if available), or pressing the sleep button on the remote control (after initial boot, when activated).
- In Quick Resume mode, the:
- Video output is stopped (Note: some monitors may display "no input" when in Quick Resume mode) - Sound is muted
- Monitor LED indicates a lowered power state
- Power continues to the vital components on the system (processor, fans, etc...)
- Warning: DO NOT open the computer chassis when it is in Quick Resume mode. Opening the chassis and installing or removing any hardware in this state can cause hardware damage.
- Tasks that do not require user input, such as streaming, scheduled television program recording, and downloading can continue in the background.

To summarize:

A huge advantage of Intel Viiv Quick Resume Technology Driver is that it cuts the signal to your monitor and mutes your speakers.

The only advantage is power saved by your monitor's stand-by mode. Speakers will continue to eat up electricity as long as they are on.

 

[mpasternak]

based on all this it still begs the question

why isnt there a "idle" or "low power mode" for standby.

standby as we know it now isn't a real standby. windows dumps the memory to the hard drive and then shuts down and turns off all the components. starting back up from standbye is an extensive task (not as bad as starting a computer) because it's gott o copy the data bACK from hard drive to memory.

in the case of computers with lots of RAM this could be up to a gig or more of data to transfer. this is still slow.

why not have a "low power" mode that basically cuts power to all external things.

the drives shut off
power stops to all expansion cards
in all purposes the computer is off.

the only thing that would remain to have power would be the CPU and the RAM and motherboard.

however they would run in a diminished state. just enough to keep the ram data populated. this would require such minimal activity all fans could be off. and the powersupply issuing near nothing in wattage to continue.

this isnt really that far fetched. as I said. motherboards now continue to draw power from the PSU when your computer is off anyways. they charge the battery, retain BIOS data. this is evident with the light on most motherborads to let you know its plugged in.

the benefits of this would be awesome. you'd have near zero resume time as no further data would need to be copied back and forth to and from memory. all that is needed is resuming of power to the peripherals again. the hadr drive spinnin back up and the devices turning back on

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

I agree that your idea is a good one. However, to relate your idea back to the topic:

Your idea of a low power mode and Intel's idea of "Quick Resume Technology" are very different. Your idea would save much more eletricity. Intel's idea is just a waste of a programmer's time.

 

[mpasternak]

but my idea is in fact what intel claims it's doing. without actually doing it.

people think when they' go into a standby sort of mode that they are in fact turnin it off to save on power consumption and noise generated by fans and all the stuff a computer uses.

whats the point of a standby mode that just shuts off the screen and the sound card. the fans still turn. power is still drawn. it's useless and nothing more than a trick. sure there's no load time to start up.. cause it never hsuts down.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

whats the point of a standby mode that just shuts off the screen and the sound card

Read carefully. It does not shut the sound card off, it simply mutes the volume! I agree with the title of this thread, it is a joke!

 

[mpasternak]

so in reality. this QRTD can be accomplished by

pressing the monitors power buttona nd the off button for your speakers



again.. i agree, pointless... well, i don't plan on paying anthing for it or buying it so meh. but the idea did peak my interest and the idea of the lower power standby

i wonder what it would cost to develope that...

 

[KBM]

QRT is supposed to be used on HTPCs..

How many of you have a Dish Network receiver or a digital cable box receiver?.. Do you know what happens when you press the power
button on the remote or the receiver?.. Just the display goes blank
and sound is muted. The unit is still fully operational and draws all the
power. You will see the time it takes for the STB to boot when you
recycle power.. The idea is same here..

You really can not reduce the CPU speed to 20 MHz from about 3 GHz.
Can you show me any CPU that can do that?...

All other power saving features like speed step are still applicable.

Do any of you guys have Roku photo bridge (which runs on linux)?.
The same thing happens when you press the power button (Video
out and audio out are shut off and the OS is still running eating
all the power).

I don't see any thing wrong with this design.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

You really can not reduce the CPU speed to 20 MHz from about 3 GHz.
Can you show me any CPU that can do that?...

Yes. It was called Intel Speed Step.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

You really can not reduce the CPU speed to 20 MHz from about 3 GHz.
Can you show me any CPU that can do that?...

And to be fair and balanced:

AMD PowerNow! Technology

AMD PowerNow! technology controls your notebook’s level of processor performance
automatically, dynamically adjusting the operating frequency and voltage many times per second,
according to the task at hand. When an application does not require full performance, significant
amounts of power can be saved. However, the processor can “instantaneously” respond to
increased workloads, allowing the system to deliver a responsive and rewarding computing
experience.

 

[KBM]

I don't see any 20 MHz in your picture??..
I was referring to the 20 MHz mentioned in the earlier posts..

I did mention speed step in my first post..

My point is you can not reduce the multiplier to such a low level..

for example, in PD you can take the multiplier down to 14 (2.8 GHz).

New C1 stepping I guess can take it down to 2.4.

AMD can take the multiplier down to 5 ( 1GHz).

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

so in reality. this QRTD can be accomplished by

pressing the monitors power buttona nd the off button for your speakers



again.. i agree, pointless... well, i don't plan on paying anthing for it or buying it so meh. but the idea did peak my interest and the idea of the lower power standby

i wonder what it would cost to develope that...

Nope, that would be more energy effecient than QRTD. Turning off the monitor saves more power than just stand-by mode. Same thing with the speakers. Speakers use power even when your computer is muted or off. Turning off the speakers is more energy effecient than QRTD which just mutes the signal.

 

[mpasternak]

I don't see any 20 MHz in your picture??..
I was referring to the 20 MHz mentioned in the earlier posts..

I did mention speed step in my first post..

My point is you can not reduce the multiplier to such a low level..

for example, in PD you can take the multiplier down to 14 (2.8 GHz).

New C1 stepping I guess can take it down to 2.4.

AMD can take the multiplier down to 5 ( 1GHz).

you my friend... have missed the complete point of the post

do you know the difference between theoretical and actual?

if someone is talking about something thoeritcal. why would start applying stupid facts like that? WE all know 20mhz is a stupid speed and that it probably couldnt be done by todays CPU's. i'm talkin about what if's. what if this what if that. what if a CPU was built to go into a low powers tandby like that


get your head outa your ass

 

[KBM]

Again, in a home theater setup, who would leave the Audio Receiver
(and hence the Speakers) and TV on when you swith off the STB
(Set top box - dish or cable)?. The point is to turn off audio and
video from the HTPC just like it is done on any other cable / dish
receiver. If you want to save power, turn off your audio receiver and TV.

 

[luminaris]

So what, nobody has any take on my robson cache theory? Pfft!!!

Fine, see if I ever respond in your stinkin threads anymore

 

[mpasternak]

lumi

i'm still not entirely sure about the robson cache idea. it's a great thoery and in practice could be great. but i see problems with the space limitations of it. you can't load your entire OS onto it yet. NAND si still too expensive to make a 20 + gig drive.

what exactly would the implementations be of ti?

 

[Viperabyss]

So what, nobody has any take on my robson cache theory? Pfft!!!

Fine, see if I ever respond in your stinkin threads anymore

LOL... i was trying to find some articles on robson cache... but my friend asked me to wash the car w/ her.. so yeh.. got distracted XD..
can you please kindly put articles up here?

 

[luminaris]

Well, here's a great little piece on it. If Intels objective is to save power, then I believe robson cache is also a way to save power as well.

http://www.techspot.com/news/19095-robson-cache-speeds-up-laptops.html

Here's another one ..

http://www.nordichardware.com/index.php?news=1&action=more&id=2135

 

[mpjesse]

If you really think that Intel is the only company that does this type of branding, then you are in need of a serious wake up call.

Everyone does it. Including AMD.

 

[Viperabyss]

hummm i may have to disagree with you on this one.
if robson cache is true, then computer can really power up in seconds.
however, according to intel's QRTD page, the last point is:

- Tasks that do not require user input, such as streaming, scheduled television program recording, and downloading can continue in the background.

if the computer has to do television program recording, then the computer must be on in order to write huge amount of data into HD. since the computer does not shut down, it doesn't use robson cache.

PS: but it would be really nice if robson cache is true.

 

[imwithid]

This is rather annoying as I own an Intel DG965OT board with an unknown device labelled as ACPI\AWY0001\4&12686F5B&0. After some searching, I suspect that this is the dreaded VIIV QRT (Quick Resume Technology) feature. Intel does not even offer the driver (anymore?) so I cannot try this out.

By the way, a comment was made by mpasternak 03-30-2006 at 09:48:05 PM:

"why isnt there a "idle" or "low power mode" for standby.

standby as we know it now isn't a real standby"

There are several power states in use by a given computer; Idle is simply the normal state with perhaps (definition varies) the hard drive spinning down and the monitor off. As (real, variable and customizable) power saving technologies are developed, the lines between traditional states may be blurred.

Standby and Suspend are almost, if not, the same. If you take an Ammeter to measure current on a computer in suspend, it is the third lowest state that the computer can be in (in my case, the current draw is 9W in standby or suspend).

Hibernate is the next step down and is virtually a hybrid of the power off mode with the current state saved to the hard drive (in my case, the current draw is 4W).

Plugging the computer into a power bar or surge protector and turning that off is absolute off with no power draw or standby power for advanced BIOS features (e.g. schedule power on/off, quick on, preliminary power cycle tests, etc.).