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Quad is a Fraud

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 31, 2006 1:47:18 AM

I work for a custom computer company called Jinglehorse. Part of my job is to stay up to date with the latest technological developments. I have become increasingly concerned with many of our competitors promoting "Quad GPU" systems. Last week I spoke to a representative at NVIDIA. I asked him how we, as a system builder, could get our hands on some quad GPU systems. He told me that pretty much nobody can get their hands on these systems, not even larger players, and that he didn't even know what the model numbers of the Quad GPU cards were because there were so few of them available. It makes me really upset when system builders start charging a premium for "cutting edge" technology that does not even have any proven benefits to the customer. Many of the system builders who are advertising "Quad GPU" systems have not even built one themselves because they can't get their hands on the product. I know that Dell has gotten their hands on some, but they have not even disclosed how many "Quad GPU" systems they are even capable of building, not even to mention the fact that they have no documented evidence that these systems are superior to regular SLI systems.
If you order one of these systems now, be warned: the manufacturer has probably never tested this configuration and will almost certainly not be able to fulfill your order for several months when these cards become more available to system builders. I hate seeing computer enthusiasts get burned because their "trusted source" is trying to push a $10,000 system on them when all they really need is a $2,000 system. The margins on these high-end systems are upwards of 50%, which means that you are paying DOUBLE of what it would cost for you to build the system on your own. And all of this money is going towards technology that hasn't even been tested in any public forumn because the people who have it want to keep a lid on how useless it is, and also because the people who are selling it can't even get their hands on it themselves. Caveat Emptor.

More about : quad fraud

March 31, 2006 2:23:20 AM

Yes but you see, you fail to realize, people are stupid.
March 31, 2006 2:27:04 AM

aren't you one of the people... or was that your demonstration... :wink:
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March 31, 2006 2:33:10 AM

Yes, some people are stupid, but I always like to assume that my customers aren't stupid. There is a difference between being stupid and just not being well informed, and I think that most people are just not very well informed about the computers they are buying because the system builder never took the time to teach them about the product. Most computer sales people are just used car salesmen that couldn't hack it with cars. I guess that's what really frustrates me, not the customer.
March 31, 2006 2:37:27 AM

Its not like theres so much demand for such systems that enthusiasts are fighting to the death go get one. Though that would be cool.
March 31, 2006 2:39:55 AM

Quote:
I have become increasingly concerned with many of our competitors promoting "Quad GPU" systems.

Post a link to a somebody advertising a system such as this for sale.
Quote:

He told me that pretty much nobody can get their hands on these systems, not even larger players

There are dual nVidia GPU cards for sale on newegg right now. If you put two of them in SLI mode, it gives you a quad gpu system :roll:
Quote:
and that he didn't even know what the model numbers of the Quad GPU cards were because there were so few of them available.

Quad gpu cards?.......what the fuck are you on about?
Quote:
It makes me really upset when system builders start charging a premium for "cutting edge" technology that does not even have any proven benefits to the customer.

Multi-gpu system do have a benefit....if you can afford them.

Who are you to say they dont?


I'm not really sure what your ranting about, but I have a funny feeling that you dont have your facts straight.

Please prove me wrong by posting a link to the systems you are talking about, and this mysterious quad gpu gaming card.
March 31, 2006 2:40:50 AM

WHO THE HELL NEEDS THAT MUCH GRAPHIC POWER (now, in the future saying that you have 2Gb worth of VRAM will be like telling today that you have 128Mb)

Bout the money concern....if ppl want to spend their money on that stuff, there's nothing to do

Personally, I also think that quad is simply stupid (for now) but is just a WOW, LOOK AT THAT "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" -Little green aliens from Toy Story


Quote:
Yes, some people are stupid, but I always like to assume that my customers aren't stupid. There is a difference between being stupid and just not being well informed, and I think that most people are just not very well informed about the computers they are buying because the system builder never took the time to teach them about the product. Most computer sales people are just used car salesmen that couldn't hack it with cars. I guess that's what really frustrates me, not the customer.


xDxD LOL, funny stories about "uninformed" salesppl:

1) Customer: Excuse me sir, is that a T-Bred processor?
Salsperson: Nope, it's an AMD processor
C: Yeah, I know, but is it a core Thoroughbred AMD processor?
S: NO! I said it wa san AMD processor
C: ok, thankx"

2) Me: excuse me, how fast is that memory you're selling?
S: 2Ghz
Me: err....sure?
S: yup

3) I was in the mall the other day and I saw this system specs:
Processor: Intel Pentium 4 2.66Ghz
Memory: 512Mb PC3200
Hard Disk Drive: 140Ghz...

and this is about an idiotic customer:
4) Salesperson: yes, how may I help you?
Customer: yes, I need a floppy drive
S: sure, which brand do you like?
C: I don't care, really, just the ceapest one
S: ok, will you try this xxxxxx?
C: yup, sure

1 hour later

Customer (really angry): excuse me, where is the diskette with the drivers?
March 31, 2006 2:48:32 AM

Yes quad is a fraud. But why do people bother getting them when they really don't need that much performance? My guess is because they want supreme bragging rights and also have lots of money so that is not much of a factor. If money is not an issue to you, then, go ahead waste 10,000 on a quad system. No one cares if you do, except the millions of poor african kids who have none...Hehe I really couldn't care less, I'm not exactly your peace corps/red cross guy so I don't give a $h1t.
March 31, 2006 2:56:07 AM

I would invest those coins in a more creative way, I'd go for an SLI/CF solution (If I had all the money in the world) and use the rest to save for a nifty sportscar or or very big HUGE TV....or to buy a brand new toaster
March 31, 2006 2:56:36 AM

Quote:
Yes quad is a fraud. But why do people bother getting them when they really don't need that much performance?

Who are you to say that someone doesnt need that much performance?

With some of the new large widescreen monitors, you simply cannot run a single high performance graphics card, and get high framerates in games like F.E.A.R., etc.
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No one cares if you do, except the millions of poor african kids who have none..

What stupid thing to even bring into the discussion.
March 31, 2006 3:58:43 AM

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Genetic..even Toms Hardware Review proved only max of THREE GPU's can be run with 2 of those, so sir, you are truly a moron.

Toms Hardware = "There is no official release by NVIDIA and no support either yet"

But yet, here is a graph showing it kicking ass :roll:



Dont be mad at me because I made you look stupid in that X800GTO thread, and dont think that name calling doesnt get reported to the mods.

I dont see how a fan of WWF wrestling could be interested in computer stuff anyways :lol:  and that dead mexican guy you're memorializing in your sig was a drug addict and steroid user....what a stupid guy to pay homage to.
March 31, 2006 4:08:55 AM

Since you're a lovely arrogant retarded moron (make sure to report me baby), and can't read, let me give you some highlights:

" In total, Windows then reported three operational GeForce 7800 GTs."

http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/14/sneak_preview_of...

"The GPU temperature can be monitored individually for each of the "three" GPUs"

There is 3 GPU's, not 4. Why don't you show the Quake 4 test where performance was WORSE? Yea...you ARE a moron, and that is a fact.

BTW: You never made me look stupid in any thread, you don't know sh!t about computers, especially graphics cards, I suggest you go memorize more from google.com and wikipedia.org since that's all you're good at.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 31, 2006 4:22:33 AM

The quad SLI configurations that many system builders are claiming to have available are 7900 cards, not the 7800 cards. Feel free to pick my post apart; I have no problem with debate. And I have no doubt that one day quad-GPU systems will be vastly superior to singel GPU systems, but today is not that day... and tomorrow doesn't look good either.
March 31, 2006 4:24:03 AM

Quote:
The quad SLI configurations that many system builders are claiming to have available are 7900 cards, not the 7800 cards. Feel free to pick my post apart; I have no problem with debate. And I have no doubt that one day quad-GPU systems will be vastly superior to singel GPU systems, but today is not that day... and tomorrow doesn't look good either.


7-Day Outlook:

Today: Bah...sh!tty
Tomorrow: Bah...sh!tty
DayAfterTomorrow: AAAHHHH!!!!! - lol I wonder if anybody will get that joke ;) .

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 31, 2006 4:32:22 AM

Quote:
The quad SLI configurations that many system builders are claiming to have available are 7900 cards, not the 7800 cards. Feel free to pick my post apart; I have no problem with debate. And I have no doubt that one day quad-GPU systems will be vastly superior to singel GPU systems, but today is not that day... and tomorrow doesn't look good either.

I see you didnt post any of the links I asked for, nor did you show me the quad gpu card you specified.

Can you do that please?
March 31, 2006 4:43:00 AM

I did not intend to say that anyone is advertising a single card that has four GPU's; rather, some system builders are claiming to have available a configuration that contains four 7900 GPU's and are advertising these systems as the greatest "extreme" configuration available. Who am I to say that people are not best served by this configuration? I guess there is a chance that they are best served by this configuration, but I don't think the data is available. Not even NVIDIA thinks so. I just think that people should be given accurate information rather than being told be a company that they trust that the $10,000 computer they are buying is the most "extreme" system available that will provide the best gaming experience.
March 31, 2006 4:48:00 AM

Quote:
he didn't even know what the model numbers of the Quad GPU cards were because there were so few of them available.

This post above threw me off a bit, I believed you were speaking of a single card, with four chips on it(ala 3D Labs or such).

a simple misunderstanding :wink:
March 31, 2006 5:03:20 AM

I got Mad Mod Mikes joke, ROFL... and yes you have to be a moron to buy a QUAD GPU set up, right now the average gamer, basically only needs at most two cards and there is really no reason to waste that much money for a small preformance increase. So, "du du du, you're f u c k i n g retarded" Carlos Mencia, i would never spend 10K on a computer my $1500 computer works fine and since i built it my self i save about $1000 if not more for when i built it.
March 31, 2006 5:10:12 AM

Hey you did your research, good for you, now you know how i feel, and thats why i thought ahead and bought a sli mobo so i can buy two 7900GTX's, i really dont like ignorant and stupid people, they piss me off.
March 31, 2006 5:41:53 AM

You can't SLI that. - Nevermind, that's wrong.

The Quad cards are dual by having 2 cards, one on each side of the PCB, and then have 2 SLI connectors.

Edit: Ok, it's not on both sides, it's 2 stacked cards. It's still odd looking.
March 31, 2006 6:24:34 AM

Quote:
I would invest those coins in a more creative way, I'd go for an SLI/CF solution (If I had all the money in the world) and use the rest to save for a nifty sportscar or or very big HUGE TV....or to buy a brand new toaster
How about the 102 inch plasma screen from Samsung?: http://www.bangladeshinfo.com/it/image/cebit_2005/102_i...
Its HUGE
March 31, 2006 7:32:06 AM

Quote:

I see you didnt post any of the links I asked for, nor did you show me the quad gpu card you specified.

Can you do that please?


That would have appeared to have shut him up.....or he may have been banned for a few days.

Remember; Attack the argument not the person.
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2006 8:25:34 AM

Quote:

Genetic..even Toms Hardware Review proved only max of THREE GPU's can be run with 2 of those,


PROVED?!? I don't see where they proved that. Perhaps you could enlighten the rest of the class? I see where THEY themselves COULDN'T get it to work, but I don't think they ever proved it could never be done. Considering the review is from a time before even the official announcement of QuadSLi.

Should the upcoming drivers change things I'll be sure to remember this thread, just like those who said AGP couldn't be combined, couldn't do SLi on Xfire boards (thank you ULi drivers).

Dealing in absolutes can often make one look a little foolish, we shall see if that's the case with you.

Quote:
so sir, you are truly a moron.


Once again jumping to conclusions. :roll:

And until you prove otherwise, I'd say you'll have difficulty convincing anyone of your ability to judge on either subject.
March 31, 2006 11:31:22 AM

Besides, this is the fastest gaming graphic card

If you just have to have the best of the best...

March 31, 2006 12:12:57 PM

One of the possible reasons for the lack of performance apparently is the fact that Nvidia has not yet released drivers that specifically address the features of running four graphics chips in one system. As a result, some manufacturer may be taking your order for a quad-SLI system, but may not be shipping until those drivers are available.
AND THIS IS FROM TOM'S HARDWARE.
" IF WE BUILD IT ....THEY WILL COME......IT WON'T WORK RIGHT, BUT THEY WILL COME !!!!!
March 31, 2006 12:53:02 PM

From a practical standpoint, Quad-SLI just isn't feasiible. The only people who need that kind of power are those who use those huge 30" or bigger dual-DVI displays. And nobody games seriously on those. There would be no benefit to using anything more powerful than dual cards.

Also, from a different perspective, that's just over duh top. With 4 video cards, especially cards the size of 7900-series, a lot of room is taken up with just graphics. There has to be almost NO room for just about anything else people need. A sound card may fit, but what if someone needs a modem? Another Ethernet card? Or one of those brand-spanking new physX cards? Granted, they could use nVidia's SLI physics, but my point remains. This computer would be useless for just about anything for games. Maybe useful as a high-end workstation, but a system like that hasn't been tested against a Quadro, Matrox, or 3DLabs system.

Also, I don't think many motherboard makes will jump on this new technology. Does anyone know who made the Quad-SLI motherboard for Dell? Foxconn makes their boards, as far as I know, unless they decided to go higher-end for the Renegade XPS. Gigabyte may make one, probably Asustech, but I doubt many others will. That will decrease variety, and if the systems built with those boards is as glitchy as I think it might be, people just won't buy the Quad boards. I prefer DFI boards, and I don't think they'll jump on this anytime soon.

I agree with Tom, his Hardware, and Master Lee. Drivers are probably to blame. But, there is a possibility that the setup could be inherebtly unstable. For example, video cards produce a lot of heat. They get around 20-30 degrees higher than an average CPU, usually. And there's four of them right next to each other. Granted, some of the cards used for this setup have two-slot cooling system that pushes the hot air out the back, but not all do. And it is entirely possible to build a Quad-SLI system out of 6600s which, as you know, have a standard cooling system. Some cards even have passive cooling, like one of the 7600 GS's. That could be a major problem. Putting them in a case that's upside down, or perhaps a BTX variant of the motherboards, could theoretically help, but the last card would always fell the heat from the other three (pun intended).

There are just so many reasons why this setup doesn't work. I think it's a scam, personally, although the concept sounds good on paper.
March 31, 2006 4:25:11 PM

Quote:
I just got a foot long penile exstension, but Im married to a midget. she will probably divorce me, considering i spent 10 grand on something that only works half the time.


I hope that was an analogy...
March 31, 2006 4:37:31 PM

she probably will, but not for that reason... more likely survival of the fittest would be main reason...
March 31, 2006 5:53:28 PM

Quote:
How about the 102 inch plasma screen from Samsung?: http://www.bangladeshinfo.com/it/image/cebit_2005/102_i...
Its HUGE



*DROOL* sure I could use that money to buy that!!!!!!!

That is amazing........watching it makes me think of all this beauty there is in TV......and sometimes.....I feel that I can't take it.....I MUST GET ONE OF THOSE!!!!!!!!!!!
March 31, 2006 6:17:22 PM

as one of the crazy basturds :twisted: that would blow money on quad SLI I say in the future go fore it.

i dont think there is a way to take full advantage of quad SLI right now. i mean we only have goten up to 2 full 16x lanes i would think when we get up a little more then it will be worth it.

OH and DELL can SUCK MY BAWLZ. they call there renegade system the best. HA they havent even realized that AMD is the shit for gaming.
March 31, 2006 6:36:04 PM

Wake me up when you see a dual nv8900 quad core GPU on one card using one slot.
Each core needs at least 48 pipelines and 4 shader units per pipe.
March 31, 2006 7:05:43 PM

Quote:
I dont see how a fan of WWF wrestling could be interested in computer stuff anyways :lol:  and that dead mexican guy you're memorializing in your sig was a drug addict and steroid user....what a stupid guy to pay homage to.


Now you're being an ass. I used to watch WWF (when it was the WWF). He was clean when he died. He fucked up but got better. How many people alive in the 70s didn't at least try drugs.

I'm interested in cars and I like computers. Its called having hobbies.


I agree that SLI and Crossfire take up way too much space. I'm looking at getting the Asus 3200 Crossfire board. Basically even with one X1900XT in there, you can't use the sole x1 PCI-E port. With two you're down to installing only one PCI card in there unless you put a second one in right next to the GPU with is horrible for airflow. They need to make the motherboard a little taller and space out the ports more. And don't put the only PCI-E port right next to the top x16 port so you can't use it with one card. I guess you could just stick the GPU in the bottom port but I'm used to sticking it in the top one.
March 31, 2006 7:24:49 PM

I think quad gpu's is a joke. sure it can be done. but how stable is it? and what kinda setup do you need to cool it?

If it works great. If it doesnt its a simple way to get nvidias name out there in front of ATI's. Its almost free marketing.

Nvidia says"we can put 4 gpus in one PC"

all the smart people say, "wow, cool, but why?"

all the dumb and vain people say," I have money to burn, and I want to be able to brag"

either way, nvidia says "haha ati"
a b U Graphics card
March 31, 2006 10:39:30 PM

Ask anyone here, I am not a proponent of SLi or Xfire (far from it, the opposite if anything), but SOMETIMES, the RARE times there is a justifiable reason. I would never call it the 'wise' choice or the 'best bang for your buck', but just like 2XGTs in SLi being a better choice than 1 GTX-512, there are exceptions. And can it be used sure it can, especially since it adds 32XAA to the mix. I'd love to see the IQ comparisons, and whether quad SLi on matches ATi's Xfire AA performance wise sometimes (since it's not linear 2X 4X progression of strength). Some games might still lag behind in 8X AA. And like Cleeve mentioned with the memory being shared you likely run out of room for 32XAA, I'd be surprised if it runs well at all at hig res, and would be best for lower res panels.

If I had a Samsung Large Panel LCD HDTV in my living room and wanted to game at the 1920x1080 native resolution, then this might be quite a necessary option for my enjoying what I have, especially for demanding games like Oblivion (but maybe a patch or another driver might help as much or more). And if I have the money, who is anyone else to complain. My complaints about SLi/Xfire have never been about their existance, simply about their practicallity.

Some people game for enjoyment, don't watch TV, don't go to movies, don't ski, that's it. Anyone complaining about it should reconsider their own pass-times and whether they would want anyone commenting on them in the same way.

I will NEVER be an advocate of SLi/Xfire for the 'average gamer' even the 2XGT situation was for people with coin, since the GTX-512 was ridiculously expensive. But anyone who drivers something more than a ford focus/doge durango/honda civic and has a word to say about it, better reconsider their use of money, because that sportty little number you may have bought yourself may be no more defendable than quad SLi. But having ridden in a Charger SRT8, I can say sometimes it's nice to have the freedom to buy the things you want regardless of what other people think about it. Still doesn't make it a wise choice, but it's not like these kids in Africa were gonna get any of this money anyways so who cares!?! You make the money YOU decide how to spend it, leave everyone else's alone! BTW, if the Ethiopians could ski at least I could give them my second hand gear! :twisted:

OH, PS, IMO, it's a freakin' ridiculous PR stunt considering the lag between announcement and any hint of product, but it doesn't make it a fraud, just silly. But people who can and want to buy it might just find a good use for it. Like the holy grail of 1,000 fps in Tetris or MineSweeper!
April 1, 2006 5:42:49 AM

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If I had a Samsung Large Panel LCD HDTV in my living room and wanted to game at the 1920x1080 native resolution, then this might be quite a necessary option for my enjoying what I have, especially for demanding games like Oblivion

EXACTLY

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(but maybe a patch or another driver might help as much or more)!
I really hope it happens, This game would probably be more impressive to me if I could enable some AA.

1280 Res, medium textures, and HDR is keeping below the threshold that I'd really like to be in.

....and to think....I just bought a new card :roll:
!