Moar guns ... we need moar guns

http://www.smh.com.au/world/live-updates-us--school-shooting-massacre-20121215-2bfx0.html

The obsession with guns and the "right to bear arms" continues to impact heavily in the US.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those families.
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  1. Nice title in News and Leisure. Save it for the politics section Reynod. At this time we do not need any MORE politicizing of this horrendous event (seems like some of our elected officials live a double standard). Give the families a break it has only been a few hours.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/potential_connecticut_school_shooting_8HMOSbP38TXwSYYsVGkYLO
    Now your link gave you little to no knowledge on the gunman. Adam Lanza 20, is autistic, according to his questioned brother. This leads me to question why and how his mother had those guns even accessible to her son.
    He got his guns illegally (stole them from his mother, he did not own them legally).
    Three guns, a 9mm Sig, 9mm Glock, and a Bushmaster .223 rifle (not going to deem it as an assault rifle yet as I do not know the exact model or specs of it. 1 part can make a big difference on a rifle. I know quite a bit about guns. (I know I'm terrible))

    Before this incident those guns killed NO ONE. Remember that.
  2. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONNECTICUT_SCHOOL_SHOOTING_SUSPECT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-14-18-40-31\

    He is "somewhat autistic" according to his brother Ryan Lanza. He suffers from a personality disorder. Off his meds???
    Even worse this is premeditated. Wrote on his Facebook Friday afternoon that read that "it wasn't me" and "I was at work."
  3. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html
    Yes, with moar guns and moar people, deaths/murders have gone


    down
  4. In one year, GUNS murdered 35 in Australia, 39 in England and Wales, 194 in Germany, 200 in Canada, and 9,484 in the United States. http://bradycampaign.org/facts/

    The GUN Murder stats per 100k > US: 4.14 Canada 0.76 Australia 0.44 Germany 0.22 England/Wales 0.07.

    US has the highest gun murder rate.

    Get control of the redneck Sporting Shooter Association and other gun nut organisations that are allowed to donate funds to politicians.

    Make it illegal for them to donate funds.

    They are paying bribe money to allow the killings to go on.

    Your fair land is out of control.
  5. Knives were involved in approximately 30 to 40 percent of attempted murders between 2001 and 2009. This represents a general increase in their use as a proportion of all attempted murders, with 2009 the second highest year on record (36.9%). Unlike murder, where the use of 'no weapon' generally exceeded the use of knives, knives were more commonly used in cases of attempted murder than 'no weapon' or firearms (the next most commonly used weapon) for each year between 2001 and 2009. In terms of offence numbers, there was a decrease in the use of knives in attempted murder from 151 in 2001 to 87 in 2009 (see Table 1). Over the same period, there was an overall decline in attempted murder from 458 to 236.

    http://aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/tandi/401-420/tandi417.html

    Dont be bringing a knife to a gun fight?
    People try to kill other people, and success for it is of course much higher using a gun.
    Lets at least all be happy we are not Irish, and its bombs and not puny knives or guns.

    Aussies murder rate using knives is three times higher than in the US, and is of course much harder to do.
  6. mjmjpfaff said:
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONNECTICUT_SCHOOL_SHOOTING_SUSPECT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-14-18-40-31\

    He is "somewhat autistic" according to his brother Ryan Lanza. He suffers from a personality disorder. Off his meds???
    Even worse this is premeditated. Wrote on his Facebook Friday afternoon that read that "it wasn't me" and "I was at work."

    Autistic?

    Hell, I have a form of ASD! In NO WAY am I going to go on a shooting spree!

    This brother has no clue.


    This is tragic to say the least. Elementary school children?! That horrible. What a Christmas when you come down to see the tree full of gifts for your dead son/ daughter who will never have a chance in this world...for real! I cannot imagine what it would be like as a parent losing a young child.
  7. I must take back the autism comment:

    There are reported cases of children acting out violently and becoming offenders later in life.

    However, this should not cause a social alarm.
  8. @ Rey
    I did not know the guns were convicted of the crime.

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/blackhomicide10.pdf ---> Not to be racist but look at page 5. There is a gun problem within the black community, just look at how high they are over the average you gave. 20.83 per 100,000. It is not the white "redneck Sporting Shooter Association".

    What are the overall murder rates per 100,000? That is the real statistic to look up. Who is really safer in their country because someone can just as easily beat me dead with a baseball bat if they did not have a gun to shoot me.

    Wonder if they have convicted bats of crimes yet...

    @ Dog
    I was not saying his mental problems caused him to do this but they might one of a list of factors.

    @JAYDEE
    Thanks for that statistic. Ban guns you get knives. Banning guns does not stop people from killing. Again, I would like to see the average murder rates per 100,000 in the countries you selected Rey. Totals murders here have gone down with the "moar" guns we have (which directly correlate to the average rate per 100,000, obviously).
  9. Supposedly his mom pushed him hard to do well in school.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/15/us-connecticut-towns-idUSBRE8BD0U120121215

    Edit:
    Others about his personality. Say what you want, this guy still commited the crime:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4699332/newtown-school-gunman-adam-lanza-a-loner.html
    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/connecticut-shooter-adam-lanza/story?id=17975673#.UMytLW_BEXh
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/adam-lanza-an-enigma-who-is-now-identified-as-a-mass-killer.html?hp&_r=0
    Weird as a kid. His mother either denied or ignored it. Don't want to beat a dead horse here but she left those guns where this "weird" could use them.
  10. Anyone who owns a gun should make that gun/guns safe and unattainable by anyone else, just one of many responsibilities gun owners must bare, along with their weapons.

    No excuses
  11. dogman_1234 said:
    I must take back the autism comment:

    There are reported cases of children acting out violently and becoming offenders later in life.

    However, this should not cause a social alarm.


    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2012/12/15/13/34/massacre-gunman-shy-intelligent-say-classmates

    Quote:
    Ms DeVivo said the consensus around their home town of Newtown was that they were not surprised that he was responsible for the shooting.
    "They said he always seemed like he was someone who was capable of that because he just didn't really connect with our high school, and didn’t really connect with our town," he said.


    People say that kinda stuff about me too. Introverted people in general.

    "Oh no, that person doesn't talk much... they must be really sad, lonely and a homicidal manic"

    I don't go around shooting people. I don't get into fights.

    The media loves to spin and justify.

    ASD people aren't evil.
  12. amdfangirl said:
    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2012/12/15/13/34/massacre-gunman-shy-intelligent-say-classmates

    Quote:
    Ms DeVivo said the consensus around their home town of Newtown was that they were not surprised that he was responsible for the shooting.
    "They said he always seemed like he was someone who was capable of that because he just didn't really connect with our high school, and didn’t really connect with our town," he said.


    People say that kinda stuff about me too. Introverted people in general.

    "Oh no, that person doesn't talk much... they must be really sad, lonely and a homicidal manic"

    I don't go around shooting people. I don't get into fights.

    The media loves to spin and justify.

    ASD people aren't evil.

    I agree; there must be more to this. There is something wrong with the family, usually is.
  13. http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
    Adam Lanza tried to buy a rifle (only need to be 18), but he was denied after a background check.
    The law did its job; the parents, not so much.

    Criminals will get weapons through criminal means. It is in their nature.
  14. But when there are as many registered (and who knows how many unregistered) guns in the US it is so easy to get one when your a nutjob.

    I don't mind people owning a gun (one and it has to be locked up) if they have good reason to do so, but military weapons, and rapid firing 9mm pistols like the sig / glock should only be for police.

    Fines for not securing weapons should be high - or consiscation / rovocation of license) should be significant.

    I make no disctinction on race regarding the term "redneck" as I use to as a term to describe racist / gunnut extremist inbred people (usually those who have a car in the front yard that is missing wheels and a flag from some lost cause flying) ... and they can be of any colour creed or ethnic background.

    My parents might fit this bill .... <sigh>.
  15. Those poor families must be having the worste weekend of their lives right now.

    The story is still a bit unclear what happened ... and the motivation ??
  16. Gun laws aside, I think we definitely need to get some programs in place to cater to our mentally ill. We also need to educate people to look for signs in others. I'm sure people knew something was off about that kid but did absolutely nothing about it.
  17. From what I understand the guy used a Bushmaster .223 (Probably an AR-15, also the same gun used in the DC sniper case...), two pistols; a Glock and a Sig (Unknown models).

    The mother should have had a better way to lock down her guns. I also wonder how often she used a semi-auto assault rifle? Maybe she hunted with it or home defense....?

    Its the culture here and the gun lobbies. Any infringement on gun ownership is believed to be a conspiracy to remove guns from citizens hands. Some people should not own guns, and there should be more restrictions on what guns and accessories you can own. Who needs extended clips for "Home Defense"? No one uses these guns for hunting, even then do you need 20+ rounds in a clip to kill a deer? Then why would you need 20+ round clips to defend yourself.

    These things make me sick, but I hope that mental health and gun ownership are being discussed by the powers that be.
  18. Welcome Relic to the dungeon.

    This is a sad thread you have chosen to kick off your adventure on Toms ... may the future hold something enlightening, funny, and possibly useful in terms of keeping your PC up and running.
  19. Yes ... just like the Republicans losing the election.

    Pity the Gun Lobby has issued so many death threats to those in power that they feel powerless to redress what is clearly a problem so far out of control that people think more guns is the answer.
  20. Over 50 laws were broken by the shooter. We don't need any more laws.

    He could have easily used a knife and accomplished the same task. I can't imagine it is too hard taking on toddlers in a locked room.

    I saw some stats.
    600,000 people a year die from smoking.
    400,000 die in car accidents
    300,000 or so from drug use
    140,000 from accidents and/or falling.
    39,000 from guns, both murder and accidental.

    there are more guns in this country than cars.

    Again, we blame the gun. Why are we not blaming the person? I watched something yesterday about Columbine and trying to find out why they did it. TAGinc.com is the website. They found the were normal up until the last year or two of school, both fed of each other and acted together.

    This Lanza kid was 20 years old.. not doing anything. His mother was pushing him to be something and all. Seriously, we all know how this works. He wasn't amounting to anything, his mother was pushing him to do something. So he acted out in violence.

    What do you do? Our society is already degraded enough. She wanted him to do better, he took the easy way out.

    Guns aren't the issue. Yes, many innocent bystanders were killed.. but we don't go around banning cars when people are killed.. or anything else where innocent people are killed.

    I ask you this, How does taking away the guns from innocent law abiding citizens solve anything?
  21. Whats the rationale behind having assault weapons at all? They arent used for hunting and no reasonable person would consider one for self defense.

    Why do you need an assault weapon?
  22. You guys do see how the philosophy of limited access to healthcare and complete access to guns might.... make these problems worse?

    So why would you want weapons designed not for hunting or defense? If its a tool then what purpose does a rifle (With extended clips) serve?
  23. wanamingo said:
    Whats the rationale behind having assault weapons at all? They arent used for hunting and no reasonable person would consider one for self defense.

    Why do you need an assault weapon?


    "Assault" is an action, not a weapon. Let's make that clear. Any gun that fires semi-auto can have any size of magazine. You can go with a bolt action.. great, Charlies Whitman used that and assaulted and killed a lot of people. That's my first issue with "assault" rifles. I called my a defense rifle. :)

    Given that, I use mine for hunting coyotes and boars. You really don't want to go boar hunting with a rifle that holds 3-4 rounds in a bolt action manner. As you may not know, Boars are a huge issue in many states as they reproduce like crazy and destroy a lot of the environment. Very dangerous animals at that and you want to shoot them multiple times, even when down, before getting remotely close to it.

    They are useful in self defense depending on your situation. It just so happens these are also the preferred weapon types when "assaulting" as we hear about.

    Personal story. About 4 years ago I was at my house when I heard some yelling outside my house. 5-6 people were outside my neighbor's front door. Some were hiding around some bushes, another one around the corner of the garage. They were trying to get my neighbor's 15 year old son to open the door. He had called the police and I had called the police. These people were outside with a baseball bat, a 2x4 looking board, and what may have been a bb/pellet gun, or some form of a club.
    Their son called me.. my master bedroom windows overlooked their front door at about 40 yards. This is outside of the range of a handgun for accuracy especially under pressure. They people were beating on the door, broad daylight on a Wednesday around 1pm. The younger daughter didn't go to school because she was getting bullied by one of the outsider's daughters. The son was recovering from chemo from brain cancer. These adults wanted in to beat up the daughter.. disturbing people.
    I pulled out my AR-15, loaded it, opened my window, pointed it out my window while I had the neighbor kid on my phone. I told him to get away from his front door. If they made it through that front door I was going to shoot and I didn't him getting hit. This is called self-defense of another human being. They approached with weapons, were taunting a 12 year old girl and a 15 year old brain cancer survivor. I made them aware I was there, I did my legal obligation. I sat there in my room for over 30 minutes. They had left, but it took the police nearly 40 minutes to show up. If those people had made it in, I wouldn't have been able to help much from being so far away with limited rounds. Having 30 rounds was adequate to take out a half dozen people. Self-defense. You have to realize that when many people are coming after one person, having the proper weapon to defend yourself is essential.

    Riots, mobs, etc. It happens.. Look to Katrina or Sandy. It was essential to defend yourself.
  24. I should also mention that I did some AR tactical training for defense. It was fun.. surpising how many people miss a target at 50 yards while standing and having only one second to shoot at it.
    The last thing you want to worry about is having to reload or cycle a round when someone is coming at you.

    Did you know that when under pressure your accuracy drops 8 times? If you shoot a 6" spread at 21 feet under no pressure, your spread will be around 4 feet at 21 feet? Meaning you'll likely miss more than you would hit someone coming at you while under pressure.

    Remember the LAPD shooting at the guys with machine guns? Look at how many rounds the police shot and missed. They were under pressure, they couldn't hit the people even at 20 feet and trained. This is a reason for keeping semi-auto firearms and revolvers in the hands of innocent people and those in need of defense.
  25. Hey Rey,
    I find it odd that Australia's homicides by gun pretty much remain nearly the same after the gun ban. It dropped what, 20%? 5 people a year less than prior to the gun ban...

    In fact, it looks like the murder rate was the on the decline long before guns were even banned. Also, the murder rate has pretty much maintained the same rate, with or without guns. Interesting stats buddy. :)
  26. Columbine they used propane tanks and handmade bombs.. just more things to ban I suppose. No more barbeques for America!
  27. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-16/ban-on-30-round-gun-magazines-in-connecticut-died-after-pressure#p2

    Quote:
    Michael Fifer, Ruger’s president and chief executive officer, told the committee that high-capacity magazines are needed for self defense.

    A third of aggravated assault and robbery victims were attacked by multiple offenders, he said. High-capacity magazines provided more protection to citizens prone to miss their intended target in stressful situations, he said.

    “The regulation of magazine capacity will not deter crime, but will instead put law-abiding citizens at risk of harm,” Fifer wrote in a letter to committee members. “The bill, if enacted, also would expose law-abiding citizens to criminal prosecution for unintentionally possessing prohibited magazines -- magazines that were legally acquired and that are largely the norm in new firearms manufacturing.”
  28. Let's add some perspective to this thread...

    Chinese officials say man stabbed 23 children.
    Quote:
    Min Yongjun is suspected of going into an elderly woman’s house Friday, 12/14, morning and stabbing her with a kitchen knife. He then allegedly went to a nearby elementary school in Chenpeng village in Guangshan county and injured the 23 children before being stopped by teachers and police.


    Evil will find a way to carry out its will regardless of the tools evil uses. If you blame the gun or blame the knife, the man is excused from the evil he committed.

    China is not calling for a ban on knives, or restricting the size, blade type, or even requiring a permit for people to own a knife.

    23 children stabbed in China. 20 children shot in Newtown. What do the killers have in common; they were both mentally unstable.
  29. What if that kid took a machete to that school and hacked the kids part while locking them in the classroom? Would it be able machetes or how disturbed the kid it?

    How quickly we look to blame something else besides the person.. that guy was pure evil and the mental health system failed. The mother wasn't responsible.

    As for gun control, I'm a firm believer that the US Gov't should furnish everyone with a small safe to lock their firearms up. That is proper gun control. It is the responsibility of the owners to ensure only the right people have access to the safe.
  30. Watching you guys get worked up over the gun debate is kind of funny.

    @Chunky- A few things people forget about the kid stabbing guy in China only 7 kids were admitted to the hospital and none of them with serious injuries. I imagine it would have been a different story if he had a gun. So again one person killed in that attack in a different location (i think he killed his wife or neighbor). Thats because its a lot harder to stab someone to death than the movies make it seem, besides if the shooter had used a knife the adults could have overpowered him add a gun into the mix and you have 27 dead. Also FYI 20 kids were stabbed to death in similar scenarios in China in 2010. So we beat that record in one day......

    @Riser - High capacity magazines are necessary for self defense? So.... The aurora shooter probably had 100 round magazines for his AR15 for when he is jogging and 30+ guys jump him? I wonder what the stats are on how frequently high capacity mags are used in murders.

    So... Can I own a grenade launcher? If I cant then why not? I enjoy shooting it, and you never know when a group of armed thugs is going to invade my prepper compound.


    Tell me again how much safer the shooters Mom was with all those guns in her house?
  31. wanamingo said:
    @Chunky- A few things people forget about the kid stabbing guy in China only 7 kids were admitted to the hospital and none of them with serious injuries. I imagine it would have been a different story if he had a gun. So again one person killed in that attack in a different location (i think he killed his wife or neighbor). Thats because its a lot harder to stab someone to death than the movies make it seem, besides if the shooter had used a knife the adults could have overpowered him add a gun into the mix and you have 27 dead. Also FYI 20 kids were stabbed to death in similar scenarios in China in 2010. So we beat that record in one day......
    Saying that "only 7 were admitted to the hospital" is a sick equivocation to promote an anti-gun message.

    I can't ehlp but notice that your responses are about WHAT the maniac used to injure the children rather than focusing in on the underlying mental health issues that CAUSED him to act. WHO CARES what was used to hurt the children. You are focusing in on the wrong thing. The problem is not guns, or knives, or bombs, or sharpened screwdrivers...the issue here is the guy in China and the guy in Newtown were both mentally ill and unstable. What they used is inconsequential to the fact that they were going to hurt people.

    These mass shootings/stabbings are NOT a gun/knife issues, it is a societal and mental health issue!

    Please do not turn this tragedy into a debate about guns or gun laws. That is a distraction from the fact that the perpetrators in these instances were both mentally ill.
  32. riser said:
    What if that kid took a machete to that school and hacked the kids part while locking them in the classroom? Would it be able machetes or how disturbed the kid it?

    How quickly we look to blame something else besides the person.. that guy was pure evil and the mental health system failed. The mother wasn't responsible.

    As for gun control, I'm a firm believer that the US Gov't should furnish everyone with a small safe to lock their firearms up. That is proper gun control. It is the responsibility of the owners to ensure only the right people have access to the safe.


    Did you see the kid? If he came at me with a machete I would laugh at him. The teachers would of been able to fight back at least.
  33. Well hopefully with Universal healthcare being implemented people can get the help they need :sarcastic: .

    So we cant talk about gun laws after a mass killing where the principal weapon used was a gun? That does not make sense, no one is taking your precious guns away, just talking about how to best keep people from killing kids using high powered rifles.

    A gun serves no purpose other than killing people, I dont see why its so crazy to ask why we need all these high powered guns for civilians.

    A screw driver serves a purpose, a knife serves a purpose, gun only had one use. I agree with the gun problem being societal, we have been at war for a decade and glorify people who shoot for a living. Gun culture is hot, and its a great way to sell sh*t to people. You think the NRA or gun lobby really cares about gun laws or safety? Their only job is to sell you guns and conservatives fall for it every time.

    So tell me again why I cant own a grenade launcher? What if some thugs are just around a corner and my trusty AR15 cant reach them, I clearly need a grenade launcher to protect myself, can I own one?
  34. johnsonma said:
    Did you see the kid? If he came at me with a machete I would laugh at him. The teachers would of been able to fight back at least.


    Yeah? Would a six year old be laughing too?
  35. wanamingo said:
    Well hopefully with Universal healthcare being implemented people can get the help they need :sarcastic: .


    Dumbass quote of the day and this is why:

    Democrat's pushed HIPAA and it was passed. The push was to allow teenagers, 16 years and older, to be on birth control without their parents having access to their healthcare records. So you have a parent with a 16 year old kid who no longer has access to their child's healthcare records. Great for HIPAA, parents have to ask their own children about their health issues because they don't have legal access to them.

    Enter the mental health debate. HIPAA protects menta health patients ages 16 and older from parents and others from seeing their health issues unless said person grants access to see those records. The issue is a 16 year old could be diagnosed with a mental health issue but after age 16, parents don't necessarily get to know this if their child doesn't want it known. While the HIPAA law enacted one benefit for the progressives, the short sightedness of the program failed to understand the full impact of the law.

    Because of HIPAA mental health issues are not going to be public knowledge and presentable on a background check when purchasing a firearm or anything else unless ruled incompetent by a doctor. This means people with mental health issues do not need to tell anyone, nor can anyone look it up, and they are legally allowed to purchase a firearm.

    Changes to HIPAA should be made to allow better help to mental health people instead of cloaking the issue behind a wall of political agendas.

    As far as gun control, I'm really not against a high capacity magazine ban. Though I don't believe a ban is necessary. I would rather argue that anything over 10 rounds has a tax stamp associated with it, say $20 per magazine, doubling the cost of most 10-30 round magazines. A 10 round polymer magazine costs about $1.50 less than a 20 or 30 round polymer magazine. Making your own high capacity magazine with a few cheap tools from Harbor Freight really isn't that difficult. In fact, for the purpose of mass murder I would argue it is cheaper to make your own high capacity magazine than buying them.

    Regarding the the jogging with a 100 round magazine, that magazine actually saved a lot of lives in the Aurora Theater shooting. Those magazines need a break in period and some additional care to function properly. Since he didn't maintain that magazine properly, it quickly jammed and took the AR-15 out of the murder, therefore we can assume at least one life was saved between not using that firearm and the time it took for him to switch to another weapon.
    A 100 round magazine is really not something to carry around either. It is fairly heavy and would really be more useful for mounted weapons and/or bipods firing from a set position. I personally have no use for the 100 round magazine but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have some use for them.

    Again, I'm not against a ban or a tax stamp on higher capacity magazines. Simply put, swapping out multiple 10 round magazines in any weapon isn't a big deal. It seriously takes less than a second to do. About the same time it takes to fire off a shot, aim, and shoot again. The 30 round is mainly for convenience and equivilent to what the military uses. This keeps the industry from having to produce magazines where the demand is not present.

    I actually went on a hunt yesterday to try to find a 5 or 10 round polymer magazine for an AR-15. At best I was able to find a 20 round magazine online. At my local store I found 2 10 round magazines. The black magazine was $19.95 and the tan magazine was $15.95. $4 increase in price simply because it was black. Sitting next to those was a 30 round magazine with a clear window for $22. As a budget shopper, the 30 round magazine is the best choice. I don't have to buy 3 magazines at $45-$60, I can buy one at $22. If I go out shooting and punching paper, I don't have to carry as many magazines, etc. Either way, more or less capacity in a magazine will not change the carnage of a killer. You're simply putting a financial burden on a guy who is going to kill himself at the end of the day. Instead of carrying 3 30 round magazines, he carries in more smaller magazines which can probably fit into my pants pocket and coat pocket much better than a 30 round magazine.
  36. Someone who kills in cold blood has a mental health issue.

    Do we need to be talking about banning guns and accessories, or should we actually address the issue of mental health?

    The Arizona shooting, the Aurora Shooting, the CT shooting, the Alabama shooting, and the Oregon shootings all in the last week... all of them have mental health issues. Maybe it is time to address that.

    I'm also all for having everyone take a firearm safety course before purchasing their first firearm. I'm also for having that information stamped on ones' driver's license so when they go to purchase a firearm it can be noted.
  37. Okay, since this is about mental state and guns, can I throw in some controversy:

    I have ASD. Technically that is a grounds for automatic termination of a gun permit because I am a threat to 'national safety'. Let us say I am at college and I am being harassed buy a bunch of college jocks and athletes. They all threaten to kill me and beat the crap out of me and that next time they see me, my lead levels in my body will rise exponentially,( never knew jocks had such big vocabulary?) Being scared for my life I go to police, both college and local. They can do nothing about the issue because no crime has been committed. so, I apply myself to a self-defense system. I go out and get a permit to won a concealed weapon and notify the school. They are fine with it. I get the permit, and apply, take the test, but lie about my ASD. The have the legal rights to contact my family and verify if all my info is correct. Well, I have a medical history and cannot apply for a permit for a gun, ergo, no gun no protection.

    Next day I am famous for being on national news. I am happy being a corpse in a cadaver bod at the local coroners office. Life is great.

    So tell me, just because I have a medical condition I am not fit for owing a gun and am therefor not allowed to defend myself in case of a potential assault on my body? Just to tell you, no medication or special treatment are necessary for my condition.
  38. riser said:
    Yeah? Would a six year old be laughing too?


    No but the six year old would of stood a chance to avoid the guy until an adult could do something and maybe still be alive instead of being gunned down in school.
  39. dogman_1234 said:
    Okay, since this is about mental state and guns, can I throw in some controversy:

    I have ASD. Technically that is a grounds for automatic termination of a gun permit because I am a threat to 'national safety'. Let us say I am at college and I am being harassed buy a bunch of college jocks and athletes. They all threaten to kill me and beat the crap out of me and that next time they see me, my lead levels in my body will rise exponentially,( never knew jocks had such big vocabulary?) Being scared for my life I go to police, both college and local. They can do nothing about the issue because no crime has been committed. so, I apply myself to a self-defense system. I go out and get a permit to won a concealed weapon and notify the school. They are fine with it. I get the permit, and apply, take the test, but lie about my ASD. The have the legal rights to contact my family and verify if all my info is correct. Well, I have a medical history and cannot apply for a permit for a gun, ergo, no gun no protection.

    Next day I am famous for being on national news. I am happy being a corpse in a cadaver bod at the local coroners office. Life is great.

    So tell me, just because I have a medical condition I am not fit for owing a gun and am therefor not allowed to defend myself in case of a potential assault on my body? Just to tell you, no medication or special treatment are necessary for my condition.


    Who decides how dangerous a medical condition is? That would require a trained medical person to determine. Now, if you noted what I said, if a trained person declared the person incompetent to own a firearm, then they would get denied. Everything else is gray.
  40. "The main area where the U.S. exceeds the firearm violence of other nations is in comparison to other affluent nations. Using the U.N. data, European nations -- even former eastern bloc countries -- typically have rates well below 1 per 100,000, or far less than one-third the frequency seen in the U.S. The pattern is similar in other advanced industrialized nations, such as Canada, Taiwan, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

    One study published in 2011 confirms this finding. The study, published in the Journal of Trauma -- Injury Infection & Critical Care, found that firearm homicide rates were 19.5 times higher in the U.S. than in 23 other "high income" countries studied, using 2003 data. Rates for other types of gun deaths were also higher in the U.S., but by somewhat smaller margins: 5.8 times higher for firearm suicides (even though overall suicide rates were 30 percent lower in the U.S.) and 5.2 times higher for unintentional firearm deaths."

    So the U.S.A is not quite as bad as third world countries. Something to be proud of.
  41. johnsonma said:
    No but the six year old would of stood a chance to avoid the guy until an adult could do something and maybe still be alive instead of being gunned down in school.


    In a locked room with 20 kids in there. 10 minutes is a long time and it took longer for the police to respond. By the time the 911 call was even made, he was already locked in the classroom doing his evil. By the way, the killer was an adult.
  42. You say that guns are the issue, not the violent tendacies of the people raised in our society? Typical.

    What I see is a Nation of people who want to place blame on anything but themselves. We blame everything on something else, never themselves.

    You know what? We have plenty of people in this country who have nothing to lose and want to take everything from someone else. You don't see productive members of society shooting places up. You see non-productive mental health people shooting the place up.

    Our society grants people a hell of a lot of privileges and some people take it for granted.

    I would question mental health state of people in the US against the rate of people in other developed countries.
  43. Of course its the culture in America. We glorify gun violence and associate guns with masculinity. Duh! I dont think anyone here has argued that isnt a big part of the problem.

    Im sure some of you guys are fans of westerns, do you remember what people would do when they went into town? They would check their guns with the sheriff. Do you remember what led to the shootout at the OK Coral? People refused to have their guns checked.

    If you needed a posse to go deal with a problem you would get men and go to the armory to arm themselves, its not like every person had guns on them all the time.

    So its interesting the in the 1850's you couldn't bring a gun into town and now the wackos are yelling for guns to be in schools.
  44. It was also called the Wild West because law had not made it that far. It was only a few towns that had issues that did that ban anyhow. They had roaming groups of people.. and that's why some towns had guns checked. It wasn't because guns were banned period, it was because law enforcement and law wasn't there.

    Glad we agree it is the culture in America. I find it interestin that Hollywood, full of progressives, are the ones posting to ban guns and all that.. while they make movies glorifying guns, violence, and death.. Hypocrits at all? They're getting rich off it and then want them banned as well? That's a mixed signal.
  45. Yeah, when they talk about the gun crime, I think of places like Chicago where they have very strict gun laws in the city and State, yet murder rates by firearm are very high. Oh, DC as well.. which isn't as strict as it was but they keep killing themselves off.

    Get whitey. :)
  46. riser said:
    Who decides how dangerous a medical condition is? That would require a trained medical person to determine. Now, if you noted what I said, if a trained person declared the person incompetent to own a firearm, then they would get denied. Everything else is gray.

    So, you are telling me that if they see me as unfit, that I have no right to protect myself all due to a medical condition?
  47. Medical condition.. insane, eh. If found to be mentally unstable and prone to act out violence, I would say absolutely not allowed to own or buy a gun. There are other options out there aside from firearms, such as tazers, pepper spray, and nailbats. :D
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