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I WANT REAL CESSNA A 152 FOR FS2004

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Anonymous
June 26, 2005 12:31:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

HEY GUYS CAN ANY BODY HELP ME BY TELLING THAT WHERE CAN I GET A NEW
CESSNA A 152 FOR FS 2004 FOR MY TRAINING FOR FREE.



OR CAN ANY BODY TELL ME WHAT ALL TOOLS R REQUIRED TO BUILD COZ I AM A
REAL WORL PILOT TRAINEE !!

THANKZ

_________________________________________________________
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More about : real cessna 152 fs2004

Anonymous
June 26, 2005 9:30:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"amangill" <amangill@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1119792626.14311@forums.simradar.com...
> HEY GUYS CAN ANY BODY HELP ME BY TELLING THAT WHERE CAN I GET A NEW
> CESSNA A 152 FOR FS 2004 FOR MY TRAINING FOR FREE.
>
>
>
> OR CAN ANY BODY TELL ME WHAT ALL TOOLS R REQUIRED TO BUILD COZ I AM A
> REAL WORL PILOT TRAINEE !!
>
> THANKZ
>
Amazing how he is allowed to fly a Cessna but can't work out where capslock
is
Related resources
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 9:44:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"amangill" <amangill@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1119792626.14311@forums.simradar.com...
> HEY GUYS CAN ANY BODY HELP ME BY TELLING THAT WHERE CAN I GET A NEW
> CESSNA A 152 FOR FS 2004 FOR MY TRAINING FOR FREE.
>
>
>
> OR CAN ANY BODY TELL ME WHAT ALL TOOLS R REQUIRED TO BUILD COZ I AM A
> REAL WORL PILOT TRAINEE !!
>
> THANKZ
>
http://www.carenado.com/html/freeairplanes.php3

152 II Free version
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:34:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 16:39:38 GMT, Dallas wrote:

> "amangill"
>>FOR FREE.
>
> If you are spending $10,000-$12,000 to learn to fly, I would think you would
> be willing to pay for a good C152.

What part of the word FREE did you misunderstand, D? ;-)

If someone says he wants a free car, do you show him where the nearest
Cadillac dealership is? You Texans....you're all alike!

--

Marcel (SAG-21)
(It's a NIGHTMAAAARE!!! - C3PO)
June 27, 2005 10:43:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Marcel Kuijper"
> If someone says he wants a free car, do you show him where the nearest
> Cadillac dealership is? You Texans....you're all alike!

Yeah.... upscale.


:-)

Dallas
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 12:36:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Clive" <someone@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:42bedb55$0$41903$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp->
>> THANKZ
>>
> http://www.carenado.com/html/freeairplanes.php3
>
> 152 II Free version

This free download from Carendo is for FS2000 and FS2002. How well does it
work with FS2004?



--
peter greenstein
http://wakefieldjazz.com/
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:31:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> If you are spending $10,000-$12,000 to learn to fly, I would think you would
> be willing to pay for a good C152.

In the US, the cost for primary instruction (recall that an instrument
rating is separate) is not US $10-12,000, especially if the student is
learning in a C152. Realistically, completing training in a C152 is
more like US $5,500 - $6,500.

Taking lessons at a US school near a large city that offers the
absolute latest model C172 with Garmin G1000 cockpit would probably be
around US $9,000 - $10,000.

This reality check was brought to you by the goodness of Hostess
Twinkies.

--
Peter
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 5:53:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:
> "Marcel Kuijper"
>
>>If someone says he wants a free car, do you show him where the nearest
>>Cadillac dealership is? You Texans....you're all alike!
>
>
> Yeah.... upscale.
>
>
> :-)
>
> Dallas
>
>
shouldn't that be copy and paste. Cut removes form system.

Mike
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 8:00:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> Hum.. thanks for that... somehow in my mind I was sure it was $10K. $6K is
> not that bad... (stroking chin in consideration)..

Here's the breakdown: Despite the FAA requiring 40 hours before
qualifying to take the PPL checkride, most students usually take 50 to
60 hours to become competent enough to take the exam.

So, assuming 30 hours with an instructor, 25 hours solo (that's 55
hours total), a cost of $85/hr for the airplane (probably too high an
estimate for a C152), and $35/hr for the instructor:

30 x 120 (aircraft plus instructor) = $3,600
25 x 85 (solo) = $2,125

Ground School (PC-based CD-ROM course): $300
Class III Medical/Student Pilot License: $100
PPL Written Exam: $95
PPL Checkride: $250 or more, depending on the examiner, who is allowed
to charge anything
Headsets: $150 or significantly more or less, depending on model and
features.

Total: Approx: $6,600

If you are really good, perhaps you could shave $800 or so off this
total by getting competent with less hours (but still over 40).

> My problem with getting a PPL is, what am I going to do with it in Texas?
> Go out and buy $125 hamburgers?


Texas is a large state. Driving around takes days. You can fly to the
beach, fly to California, fly north to cool off, or do what you Texans
do to live up to your motto. :) 

And no, I haven't had a Twinkie in *years*.

--
Peter
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 12:02:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote:


>Texas is a large state. Driving around takes days. You can fly to the
>beach, fly to California, fly north to cool off, or do what you Texans
>do to live up to your motto. :) 

The problem with small plane ownership or rental is that once you get
to your destination airport - how do you get around?

This is especially true of smaller town airports. Some of those towns
don't even have taxis so your only solution is to thumb or beg for a
ride (unless you invested in those tiny foldable bikes, powered or
unpowered).

That's a little bit demoralizing after you already spent a quarter
million dollars or more for a small plane ;-(((

-=tom=
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 12:12:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Tom Orle <xspam.torle@comcast.net> wrote:

> This is especially true of smaller town airports. Some of those towns
> don't even have taxis so your only solution is to thumb or beg for a
> ride (unless you invested in those tiny foldable bikes, powered or
> unpowered).

Many of the smaller airports that are at least partially attended in the US
still offer crew/courtesy cars.

These cars are normally free to use by transient pilots, but the
pilot/borrower typically tops off the tanks as a thank-you.

Of course, there are a couple of caveats that apply:

1) First come, first served and there usually are only one or two vehicles
available.

2) If arriving after hours, pre-arrangement must be made with the airport
attendant.

Most people's reactions when they hear of this "good old days" carry-over
reply, "What? They just let you, an unknown person, take their car? What
prevents you from stealing it?"

"The fact that they have my airplane parked at their airport."


--
Peter
























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June 28, 2005 2:07:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"mike wheelock"
> shouldn't that be copy and paste. Cut removes form system.

Darn... hum.. I guess I should give up my career aspirations for being a
technical writer. :-)

Dallas
June 28, 2005 2:09:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey"
> This reality check was brought to you by the goodness of Hostess
> Twinkies.


When did you become a Twinkie?

<g>


Dallas
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 2:09:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:4O_ve.10348$hK3.4569@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Beech45Whiskey"
>> This reality check was brought to you by the goodness of Hostess
>> Twinkies.
>
>
> When did you become a Twinkie?
>
> <g>
>
>
> Dallas
>
>

If he keeps on with those Twinkies, he will have to redo all his Weight and
Balance calculations. Probably even have to reduce the fuel load!! :-)))

Paul
June 28, 2005 2:35:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey"
> Realistically, completing training in a C152 is
> more like US $5,500 - $6,500.

Hum.. thanks for that... somehow in my mind I was sure it was $10K. $6K is
not that bad... (stroking chin in consideration)..

My problem with getting a PPL is, what am I going to do with it in Texas?
Go out and buy $125 hamburgers?


Dallas
June 28, 2005 7:32:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Tom Orle wrote:


> The problem with small plane ownership or rental is that once you get
> to your destination airport - how do you get around?
>
> This is especially true of smaller town airports. Some of those towns
> don't even have taxis so your only solution is to thumb or beg for a
> ride (unless you invested in those tiny foldable bikes, powered or
> unpowered).
>
> That's a little bit demoralizing after you already spent a quarter
> million dollars or more for a small plane ;-(((
>
> -=tom=
>


Spend $25,000 for a (or is it an) RAF2000 Gyrocopter, get it registered
as a pseudo-motorcycle, land at the airport, stop and secure the blade
and drive into town.

OK, so that's a hassle. Maybe just rent a car. :) 

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

To reply privately, get rid of PuPPYmillS
akita_77PuPPYmillS@yahoo.com
(akita_77-note the underscore)
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 9:39:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> How does overnight rental work? Lets rent a 172 for $85/hr and fly it for 5
> hours = $425. But, now you are there and you keep it parked at the airport
> for 6 days until you're ready to come home.

What Jay wrote. :)  Most FBOs that offer rental aircraft for
instruction will typically require a minimum number of flown hours per
day. The school where I received my certificate requires two hours per
day during the week and three hours per day on the weekend for anyone
interested in taking the aircraft overnight. Thus, if you flew six
hours (according to the Hobbs meter) to get to your destination and
back, you would have flown enough time to cover three days of
overnights during the week and two on the weekend.

Now, most leaseback owners (individuals who lease their aircraft to
FBOs to use as rentals - a common arrangement these days at flight
schools) would probably balk at the idea of someone taking their
aircraft for six days or longer, regardless of the minimum hours that
will be charged. This is because in six days at a modest to busy
school, most rental aircraft will accumulate more than 12 hours of
rental time, the minimum hours per day charged to the pilot taking the
aircraft for 6 days. More hours actually flown by many at the flight
school translates to more lease income for the leaseback owner.

In the long run, if a pilot wants to fly extended trips, and
anticipates flying more than 150 hours per year or so, s/he is much
better off either joining a flying club, where the costs are split
between many individuals, or entering into a partnership with one to
three other owners.

--
Peter
June 28, 2005 10:02:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey"
> Texas is a large state. Driving around takes days. You can fly to the
> beach, fly to California, fly north to cool off

How does overnight rental work? Lets rent a 172 for $85/hr and fly it for 5
hours = $425. But, now you are there and you keep it parked at the airport
for 6 days until you're ready to come home.


Dallas
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 10:02:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:yJ5we.305$8f7.147@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Beech45Whiskey"
>> Texas is a large state. Driving around takes days. You can fly to the
>> beach, fly to California, fly north to cool off
>
> How does overnight rental work? Lets rent a 172 for $85/hr and fly it for
> 5
> hours = $425. But, now you are there and you keep it parked at the
> airport
> for 6 days until you're ready to come home.
>
>
> Dallas
>
>

At most FBO's such long-term away time would fall under the heading of
"special circumstances" where you'd have to sit down with the owner and
hammer out an agreement based on your request and their desire to keep the
hobbs spinning on that rental bird.

Usually for an overnight trip, there will be a minimum rental duration. Say
you fly from Phoenix to Sedona (about an hour each way), you'd probably be
on the hook for a minimum of 4 hours.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

PS...If someone were to make such trips regularly, IMO, they'd be much
better off buying a plane or entering into a partnership of some sort and
not renting.
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 10:14:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

i live in india



so can u tell me any flying club in texas near huston where my uncle
lives so that i can come there and complete my flying training



I have passed my CPL papers

I have done My class I medical

I Just need 200 hrs more on single engine Cessna A 152

Can you suggest me some good flying club in Texas if possible near
Huston



Tell me its wesite i will contact them



Please Help me Out

I need to complete my training as fast as possible

_________________________________________________________
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June 28, 2005 1:05:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Beech45Whiskey wrote:
> will be charged. This is because in six days at a modest to busy
> school, most rental aircraft will accumulate more than 12 hours of
> rental time, the minimum hours per day charged to the pilot taking the
> aircraft for 6 days. More hours actually flown by many at the flight
> school translates to more lease income for the leaseback owner.
>


Back in the 60's I took a 150 from the school for a weeks vacation, and they
had a 15hr minimum for that length of time. No problem with that since I
was going from KC on up through Nebraska, South Dakota, and Colorado - but
they weren't too happy when I called them from Rapid City after a brake
locked on landing, pulled me off into a drainage ditch, giving the nose gear
a less than acceptable backward pitch.. The guy that had to ferry the
replacement 150 all the way up to Rapid City and, then back with the
repaired 150, over the scenic corn fields of NE wasn't a happy camper,
either..
d:->))
June 28, 2005 7:08:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"amangill"
> I Just need 200 hrs more on single engine Cessna A 152

Wow... 200 hrs should get you your ATP rating. :-)


> Can you suggest me some good flying club in Texas if possible near
> Huston

Nope, don't know anything about Houston training.


Dallas
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 7:47:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 28 Jun 2005 05:39:40 -0700, "Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com>
wrote:

>In the long run, if a pilot wants to fly extended trips, and
>anticipates flying more than 150 hours per year or so, s/he is much
>better off either joining a flying club, where the costs are split
>between many individuals

The club I belong to ($275 annual dues) is 1 hour minimum per day for
extended X-cntry. Located San Diego County, all include fuel (wet
rates).
152 $51
(3) 172's $67
177 RG $96
Warrior $68
Archer II $78
Archer IV $89
Dakota $99
Mooney M20C $87
Citabria $74
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 7:47:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"S Herman" <ask@youmayget.com> wrote in message
news:qlr2c11ttbp0198po6ov9gjmchfn9s7r44@4ax.com...
> On 28 Jun 2005 05:39:40 -0700, "Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>In the long run, if a pilot wants to fly extended trips, and
>>anticipates flying more than 150 hours per year or so, s/he is much
>>better off either joining a flying club, where the costs are split
>>between many individuals
>
> The club I belong to ($275 annual dues) is 1 hour minimum per day for
> extended X-cntry. Located San Diego County, all include fuel (wet
> rates).
> 152 $51
> (3) 172's $67
> 177 RG $96
> Warrior $68
> Archer II $78
> Archer IV $89
> Dakota $99
> Mooney M20C $87
> Citabria $74

Just out of curiosity for comparison's sake, what are the
ages/models/equipment levels of the three 172s?

FWIW, I'm renting from among a 2002, a 2003 and a 2004 172SP all with the
NAV II package (GPS, Moving Map, Autopilot, Dual VORs...) at $105/hr wet.

Jay B
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 4:26:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:11:52 -0700, "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>Just out of curiosity for comparison's sake, what are the
>ages/models/equipment levels of the three 172s?
>
>FWIW, I'm renting from among a 2002, a 2003 and a 2004 172SP all with the
>NAV II package (GPS, Moving Map, Autopilot, Dual VORs...) at $105/hr wet.
>
>Jay B
>

These are all older planes, the 172's are M & N models, 76-79 if I
recall. All club planes are IFR cert. (except the 152). They fly a lot
which is good since they get 100 hour inspections quite often. Also,
there are a lot of students & pilots looking at them, so squawks get
reported regularly.

Pros:
Cheap, minimums are great for those weekend to 1 week trips.
(Round trip to Vegas, 3 days = ~$300)
On line scheduling
One set of keys fits all planes, 24HR access.
Contracted fuel truck service
Mechanically good condition
Nice location for me (KCRQ)

Cons:
Interiors rough
Older, mostly original electronics (only 1 has a GPS, non-IFR)
A few thoughtless members here & there, make life interesting, BUT, a
thorough preflight is a good thing.

The FBO i am familiar with here has the 172R & SP's for about $100
like you're paying . . . leather seats, etc. but they have a 2 hour
per day minimum for overnight flights.
(Round trip to Vegas, 3 days = ~$600)
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 4:26:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"S Herman" <ask@youmayget.com> wrote in message
news:D mm3c1dhs2vd9vsi9rs4iv3vmc3quff18q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:11:52 -0700, "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Just out of curiosity for comparison's sake, what are the
>>ages/models/equipment levels of the three 172s?
>>
>>FWIW, I'm renting from among a 2002, a 2003 and a 2004 172SP all with the
>>NAV II package (GPS, Moving Map, Autopilot, Dual VORs...) at $105/hr wet.
>>
>>Jay B
>>
>
> These are all older planes, the 172's are M & N models, 76-79 if I
> recall. All club planes are IFR cert. (except the 152). They fly a lot
> which is good since they get 100 hour inspections quite often. Also,
> there are a lot of students & pilots looking at them, so squawks get
> reported regularly.
>
> Pros:
> Cheap, minimums are great for those weekend to 1 week trips.
> (Round trip to Vegas, 3 days = ~$300)
> On line scheduling
> One set of keys fits all planes, 24HR access.
> Contracted fuel truck service
> Mechanically good condition
> Nice location for me (KCRQ)
>
> Cons:
> Interiors rough
> Older, mostly original electronics (only 1 has a GPS, non-IFR)
> A few thoughtless members here & there, make life interesting, BUT, a
> thorough preflight is a good thing.
>
> The FBO i am familiar with here has the 172R & SP's for about $100
> like you're paying . . . leather seats, etc. but they have a 2 hour
> per day minimum for overnight flights.
> (Round trip to Vegas, 3 days = ~$600)
>
>

Thanks very much for your response.

Always interesting to compare $$$/Value ratios in other parts of the
country. I"d have to say that the Phoenix area is somewhat below average as
far as rental rates go.

I've seen 172SPs in some parts going for up to $125/hr !! Eeeek...

Jay B
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 12:29:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

> "Jay Beckman"
>> Always interesting to compare $$$/Value ratios in other parts of the
>> country.
>
> Here's another one with lots of detail, click on View Aircraft and Rates:
>
> http://classicaviationonline.com/services_rental.html

There are four C172SPs available for rent at the school where I trained, a
1999, a 2000, a 2002, and a 2003 model. The two latest models are NAV II
equipped (IFR GPS, MFDs, autopilot, round gauges) and the other two have
older IFR GPS's w/out MFDs.

All rent for US $100 per hour and instruction is $40 per hour.

--
Peter
























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Anonymous
June 29, 2005 7:08:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jke3ub4rsenn.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:
>
>> "Jay Beckman"
>>> Always interesting to compare $$$/Value ratios in other parts of the
>>> country.
>>
>> Here's another one with lots of detail, click on View Aircraft and Rates:
>>
>> http://classicaviationonline.com/services_rental.html
>
> There are four C172SPs available for rent at the school where I trained, a
> 1999, a 2000, a 2002, and a 2003 model. The two latest models are NAV II
> equipped (IFR GPS, MFDs, autopilot, round gauges) and the other two have
> older IFR GPS's w/out MFDs.
>
> All rent for US $100 per hour and instruction is $40 per hour.
>

Amazing. Driver's training (mandatory) costs more than that over here in
Switzerland.

Stephen
(I'm jealous)
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 7:08:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:

> Amazing. Driver's training (mandatory) costs more than that over here in
> Switzerland.

Those prices I quoted were per hour. Are you saying that driver's training
cost more than US $6,000 or 7,709 Swiss Franc?

--
Peter
























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Anonymous
June 29, 2005 8:51:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jdmr1emj7iv.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> "Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>> Amazing. Driver's training (mandatory) costs more than that over here in
>> Switzerland.
>
> Those prices I quoted were per hour. Are you saying that driver's
> training
> cost more than US $6,000 or 7,709 Swiss Franc?
>
> --
> Peter
>

I understood the per hour part. Getting a driving license in Switzerland or
Germany drains your pockets to the tune of about 3000 bucks.

Stephen
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 8:51:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:

> I understood the per hour part. Getting a driving license in Switzerland or
> Germany drains your pockets to the tune of about 3000 bucks.

OK, so not quite as much as a pilot's certificate in the US, but still...

You must have a lot of excellent drivers in your country!

--
Peter
























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June 30, 2005 12:49:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Beech45Whiskey wrote:

> "Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>
>>I understood the per hour part. Getting a driving license in Switzerland or
>>Germany drains your pockets to the tune of about 3000 bucks.
>
>
> OK, so not quite as much as a pilot's certificate in the US, but still...
>
> You must have a lot of excellent drivers in your country!
>

Actually they do. Driving here in the US is totally defensive driving
(for me at any rate) but spending 10 years in Germany I have to say they
do drive aggressive, but follow every rule. If a lane is blocked ahead
each care in the clear lane will allow one car to merge in front of
them. If you don't see a turn signal, they aren't turning. If they
aren't passing, they are in the right lane. Gabriella spent thousands
for mandatory driving school and when I took her to get her US drivers
license she was amazed that all she had to do was drive around the block.

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 12:49:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

boB <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote:

> Actually they do. Driving here in the US is totally defensive driving
> (for me at any rate) but spending 10 years in Germany I have to say they
> do drive aggressive, but follow every rule.

It is certainly an impressive goal, but think of the consequences in
mandating a driving course that costs US 3,000 before one gets a driver's
license.

Many, many people of minimum to modest economic means would not have
licenses, which would certainly have an impact on the economy.

--
Peter
























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June 30, 2005 4:53:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Beech45Whiskey wrote:
> boB <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote:
>
>
>>Actually they do. Driving here in the US is totally defensive driving
>>(for me at any rate) but spending 10 years in Germany I have to say they
>>do drive aggressive, but follow every rule.
>
>
> It is certainly an impressive goal, but think of the consequences in
> mandating a driving course that costs US 3,000 before one gets a driver's
> license.
>
> Many, many people of minimum to modest economic means would not have
> licenses, which would certainly have an impact on the economy.
>

Heck no!! I'm not insinuating the US should have a mandatory drivers
training course. I would be satisfied if the police ticketed drivers for
violating the law. Such as driving in the left lane, changing lanes or
turning without signaling the intension to mention a few.

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

To reply privately, get rid of PuPPYmillS
akita_77PuPPYmillS@yahoo.com
(akita_77-note the underscore)
June 30, 2005 11:29:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

$3,000.00 for driving school seems absurd.

Sounds like a govenment scam to enhance revenue.


Dallas
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 5:05:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:xbNwe.11144$jX6.593@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> $3,000.00 for driving school seems absurd.
>
> Sounds like a govenment scam to enhance revenue.
>
>

Why is 6'000 - 7'000 to get a PPL acceptable, but not a similar amount to
pilot a 1500kg vehicle at speeds up to 250kph, in close proximity with other
vehicles, in varying weather conditions? I would say our Canadian and
American system is woefully inadequate.

To me, it sounds like they are simply treating driving as a privilege, not a
right, and they are also recognizing that European driving (in some regions)
places some serious demands on your driving competence which do not exist in
the typical N.A. suburban environment. Having spent my first ten driving
years in North America (where I was the exception to the rule and actually
attended an advanced driving school) and then the next ten years in
Switzerland and Germany, I definitely see the benefits of rigid (and
expensive) driver training requirements. The UK is somewhat less expensive,
but still requires a substantial amount of documented wheel time before
licensing. The end result is that the majority of drivers, even well into
their senior years, know how to drive quickly, courteously, and safely on
very demanding roads, rather than vaguely guiding their vehicles down a wide
expanse of concrete in a mouth-breathing stupor.

On the flip side, my car insurance was cheaper in Switzerland than Canada,
used cars are in better shape and cheaper, so it all evens out in the end.

Stephen
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 5:05:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

As a matter of interest, when I lived near a big US airbase in the middle
of England, the most common road accident in the area involved young
American servicemen. The most common cause of death among the young soldiers
was road accidents.
They could not cope with our narrow country roads and driving on the left.


Quilljar


Try 'Living With Technology' magazine
http://www.livtech.co.uk
June 30, 2005 7:55:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Stephen F."
> Why is 6'000 - 7'000 to get a PPL acceptable, but not a similar amount to
> pilot a 1500kg vehicle


Adding that 3rd dimension tends to complicate things a bit. :-)


Dallas
July 1, 2005 12:46:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Stephen F. wrote:
I would say our Canadian and
> American system is woefully inadequate.
>
The end result is that the majority of drivers, even well into
> their senior years, know how to drive quickly, courteously, and safely on
> very demanding roads, rather than vaguely guiding their vehicles down a wide
> expanse of concrete in a mouth-breathing stupor.
>
> On the flip side, my car insurance was cheaper in Switzerland than Canada,
> used cars are in better shape and cheaper, so it all evens out in the end.
>
> Stephen
>
>
========================================================================
> very demanding roads, rather than vaguely guiding their vehicles down
>a wide
> expanse of concrete in a mouth-breathing stupor.
========================================================================

Who the fuc# are you directing that idiotic statement to you friggin' idiot?

There were many times in Europe where I encountered less than perfect
motorists and I believe YOU have been a road hazard on occasion!!

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 12:15:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:wSYwe.91245$6g3.14663@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
> Who the fuc# are you directing that idiotic statement to you friggin'
> idiot?
>
> There were many times in Europe where I encountered less than perfect
> motorists and I believe YOU have been a road hazard on occasion!!
>

Sorry if I touched a hot wire. Obviously, it was directed to the drivers
who are in a mouth-breathing stupor. I don't know you, but I would imagine
with your military training you are *not* one of them, hence I didn't say
"all those bad drivers like boB". In fact, I could imagine you might even
be one of the ex-military guys who has something pretty cool stashed away in
the garage. Something like a Big Healy, an old Porsche 356 with a sneaky
Carrera engine, or maybe something with a Hemi, built back when "Hemi" meant
something. You probably also know how to use it, and you would be a guy I
could swap stories with over a beer. I also imagine most professionally
trained pilots would also fall into the group of competent drivers, as they
are blessed with a finely-tuned sense of situational awareness which only
comes from *training*.

However, I stand by my comment that Europeans on average, because of their
driving training, are much more active and coherent *participants* in
traffic, rather than passively going with the flow. It's simply my
observation after ten years of driving over here, compared to ten years of
driving in Canada and the US. It's also the observation of many people paid
good money to study and write about driving practices and skills in
different countries. It is also the anecdotal observation of many people on
the driving and car forums where I participate (forum members from NA).

Of course there are bad drivers in Europe and good drivers in NA. However,
given the roads they face, the law of averages would simply dicate that they
would all be dead if they weren't, for the most part, extremely competent
drivers.

As for me, I'm sure I've been guilty of being inconsiderate at times, but
I'll wager my record of 550'000+ accident free kms has at least something to
do with taking a comprehensive driving training in Canada (optional and
expensive), followed up by regular trips to performance driving schools
since then. It is clear to me that people who take proper driver
"training", as opposed to driver "education" (not just a matter of
semantics) drive differently. They see the road differently, they take in
the whole situation differently, they think ahead.

Sorry that you took offence to a tongue-in-cheek comment not aimed at anyone
in particular.

Stephen
July 1, 2005 12:15:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Stephen F. wrote:
> "boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
> news:wSYwe.91245$6g3.14663@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>>Who the fuc# are you directing that idiotic statement to you friggin'
>>idiot?
>>
>>There were many times in Europe where I encountered less than perfect
>>motorists and I believe YOU have been a road hazard on occasion!!
>>
>
>
> Sorry if I touched a hot wire. Obviously, it was directed to the drivers
> who are in a mouth-breathing stupor. I don't know you, but I would imagine
> with your military training you are *not* one of them, hence I didn't say
> "all those bad drivers like boB". In fact, I could imagine you might even
> be one of the ex-military guys who has something pretty cool stashed away in
> the garage. Something like a Big Healy, an old Porsche 356 with a sneaky
> Carrera engine, or maybe something with a Hemi, built back when "Hemi" meant
> something. You probably also know how to use it, and you would be a guy I
> could swap stories with over a beer. I also imagine most professionally
> trained pilots would also fall into the group of competent drivers, as they
> are blessed with a finely-tuned sense of situational awareness which only
> comes from *training*.
>

I don't know why that statement set me off. I have to apologize. Sorry.
I should taken more time before I replied.



--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

To reply privately, get rid of PuPPYmillS
akita_77PuPPYmillS@yahoo.com
(akita_77-note the underscore)
!