Ban Assault Weapons

[musical marv]

We have to reinstate the Assault law ban we had in the 60's.This is getting more horrific everyday we see and hear.There is no reason for people to have these semi automatic weapons at all.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uxDPUhxLUY

 

[riser]

An assault weapon is classified as a weapon that can hold a magazine, fire semi automatic, and must have* either a collapsable stock or pistol grip. There were a couple other items listed but not very common.

So, you can buy yourself an AR-15 without a collapsable stock and it is fine. If you buy one with an adjustable stock, it would be considered an assault weapon. In Vietnam they didn't have collapsable stocks... They're still made today with full A1 style stocks.

I liked the argument on Huffington Post. Hit the high capacity mags with a tax stamp like what is done with suppessors. Tack on $20 per mag, doubling the price. For reference, a suppressor costs starting around $600 and up, the tax stamp is $200 on it as a one time fee.

As I stated earlier, it would be far easier for me to put mulitple 10 round magazines in my pockets or tape them to my body than it would be for me to carry 30 round magazines for a quick reload. High capacity mags are a scapegoat for the real issue anyhow...

 

[wanamingo]

FYI @OMG the report of the AR15 being in the car was inaccurate, the only time he used a handgun was to off himself.

 

[wanamingo]

Do you have a linky mingo? There have been big discrepancies in the reporting on this incident. It's maddening just trying to get the freakin truth.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/us/connecticut-lanza-guns/index.html

Thats one problem with our media, they want to get info out asap regardless if its right or not.

 

[riser]

That's fine and all marv, but what do you hope to accomplish? These "Assault weapons" as you call them are used in 0.002% of violent crime.

I might add, an "assault weapon" was not used in the connecticut shootings. Handguns were. The AR-15 was recovered from the shooter's vehicle, not from inside the school.

@riser
That is incorrect. An assault rifle is fully automatic, not semi. At least that's how the Army classifies an assualt rifle.

I was basing it on the Clinton 94-2004 assault weapon ban definition.

 

[riser]

The closed room the AR was probably a better option for carnage. In the movie theater the AR was a bad choice.. and it ended up jamming. Using a shotgun with 6-7 would have done more damage.

With an AR you hit one shot with penetration. With a shot gun with self defense ammo, you get 9 pellets acting liike a 9mm round. The shotgun, even with the smaller capacity and in a small classroom would have been just as bad. Do we ban shotguns which are short range and heavily used for hunting and self defense as well then?

 

[chunkymonster]

We have to reinstate the Assault law ban we had in the 60's.This is getting more horrific everyday we see and hear.There is no reason for people to have these semi automatic weapons at all.

OH YEAH! ABSOLUTELY MARV! Let's ban those evil assault weapons! Heck, I think we should ban any gun that can hold more than one round at a time! The only guns that people should be able to own are single shot rifles! Wait, better yet, we should ban all modern single shot rifles and people should only own matchlock style rifles!

Hey! Here's another great idea! Let's pass laws against all the bad things people own! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Cars are bad! Cars are the cause of over 32,000 deaths per year! BAN ALL CARS!

Knives are bad! Edged weapons are the cause of over 16,000 deaths per year! BAN ALL KNIVES!

Alcohol is bad! All alcohol related deaths total over 100,000 per year! BAN ALL ALCOHOL!

Stairs are bad! Falling down the stairs is the most common cause of household death resulting in 1,300 deaths per year! BAN ALL BUILDINGS MORE THAN ONE STORY TALL!

Fire is bad! House fires are the cause of over 2,700 deaths per year! BAN ALL FIRE!

Suicide is bad! Suicide results in over 36,000 death per year! BAN SUICIDE!

Drugs are bad! Over 39,000 people per year die because if prescription and illicit drug abuse! BAN ALL DRUGS!

Oh man, I can only imagine how much safer we would be if we banned all the bad things in the world. We would be so much better off than we are today!

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

How does this help those who need it
How does this prevent similar acts, whether by gun or blunt instrument?
In other words, its certain people doing these things, it wasnt a crime for money

 

[riser]

How often we fail to point at the person who did the crime.. instead we blame items or society, never the individual.

 

[riser]

Google Image these two Items:

AR-15
Mini-14

These are two firearms that shoot the .223 sportsman & 5.56 NATO round.

The AR-15 was banned under the Clinton-era assault weapons ban. The Mini-14 was not due to it not having the Pistol Grip style of the AR-15 and because it did not have a collaspable stock.

Both are magazine fed, have high capacity magazines, are semi-auto, and both fire very quickly. The mini-14 is cheaper than an AR-15 as well.

This is the stupidity of the gun ban and the lack of knowledge these people making these laws have about what they are attempting to do.

 

[musical marv]

That's fine and all marv, but what do you hope to accomplish? These "Assault weapons" as you call them are used in 0.002% of violent crime.

I might add, an "assault weapon" was not used in the connecticut shootings. Handguns were. The AR-15 was recovered from the shooter's vehicle, not from inside the school.

@riser
That is incorrect. An assault rifle is fully automatic, not semi. At least that's how the Army classifies an assualt rifle.

What ever the term is ban these dam weapons before more and more killings happen. Hopefully Obama will start to do something asap with this new commission he appoints led by Biden.This is getting out of hand completely.

 

[dogman_1234]

The fault lies within the home itself. There were no safety systems, no safe, no lock and key, no out of reach system to prevent this guy from obtaining his weapon. I doubt the black market would be affordable for him.

All of us could argue on how to curtail the threat of gun violence. It will always be here, but the real question is how to reduce...not prevent.

Reduction decreases frequency which will help law enforcement manage gun crimes much easier. It will also be more economical as gun owners and sellers will not be subjected to hefty/costly regulations due to others stupidity.

Educate our country on gun operations and what they are for. Defense, not offense. Teach people how to store a gun safely, how to manage it safely, and the proper ways to use and discharge the system using high velocity projectiles.

I have an opinion on ownership of military grade weapons though. They are for military, not civilian. You do not need a semi- or full- automatic gun with a magazine to defend yourself unless you are a warrior. A simple pistol or rifle would do. I don't care if you buy 'assault weapons' for a hobby, there should be a reason why you should NOT own them!

I am not a gun enthusiast, owner, nor user. However, I feel that legally we are granted special rights to bear arms, whether guns, knives, Molotov cocktails, Chuck Norris, etc... and that our government should respect that.

Oh, and BTW, Obama cannot legally take your guns away. See, there is this piece of paper, called the Constitution... you should check it out sometime! If he does, his power as president is illegitimate. Same goes for congress and the supreme court.

 

[wanamingo]

The consensus seems to be we need to keep guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people. Government cant do it effectively, people cant do it effectively (Just look to all of the legally purchased guns used in mass shootings), same for states. Crazies need to be stopped in their community by the people around them.

My idea is let people carry small handguns for "Self Defense". No one really needs an AR15 to defend themselves. So heres what we do, we let groups of people have whatever guns they want, we could call them militias or whatever. But each group has its own armory where they store their heavy weapons. If you want to go shooting you'll have to check out your guns. That way we have a small community of responsible gun owners all ensure their weapons are being used responsibly and by responsible people.

No federal oversight let the states figure out how to implement. If the Sandy Hook shooters mom had her guns in a safe place this would have never happened.

 

[riser]

And when a guy goes "shooting" and decides to stand outside the place where the guns are.. and starts shooting the place up, what do you? You know how long it will be for a response team to show up with the police?

The militia would be pointless as they are not ready in short notice.

We don't know who is crazy because HIIPA doesn't let anyone check that information. We need to change health care policy; Child molesters have mental issues and we get to know about them in our neighborhood, we should get to know about people with a list of mental illnesses, and especially when applying to purchase a gun - at least put them on a waiting period. It worked for Adam Lanza when he attempted to purchase a gun.

 

[riser]

Remove gun free zones. I bet shootings go down.

What proof? Simply look at Washington DC. Crime and gun violence went down after removing the handgun ban.

 

[musical marv]

The fault lies within the home itself. There were no safety systems, no safe, no lock and key, no out of reach system to prevent this guy from obtaining his weapon. I doubt the black market would be affordable for him.

All of us could argue on how to curtail the threat of gun violence. It will always be here, but the real question is how to reduce...not prevent.

Reduction decreases frequency which will help law enforcement manage gun crimes much easier. It will also be more economical as gun owners and sellers will not be subjected to hefty/costly regulations due to others stupidity.

Educate our country on gun operations and what they are for. Defense, not offense. Teach people how to store a gun safely, how to manage it safely, and the proper ways to use and discharge the system using high velocity projectiles.

I have an opinion on ownership of military grade weapons though. They are for military, not civilian. You do not need a semi- or full- automatic gun with a magazine to defend yourself unless you are a warrior. A simple pistol or rifle would do. I don't care if you buy 'assault weapons' for a hobby, there should be a reason why you should NOT own them!

I am not a gun enthusiast, owner, nor user. However, I feel that legally we are granted special rights to bear arms, whether guns, knives, Molotov cocktails, Chuck Norris, etc... and that our government should respect that.

Oh, and BTW, Obama cannot legally take your guns away. See, there is this piece of paper, called the Constitution... you should check it out sometime! If he does, his power as president is illegitimate. Same goes for congress and the supreme court.

Why the hell do we need guns period!In my time when i was growing up in the 50's we never needed guns to protect ourself.people more more humane and had more compassion than now.Also the internet was not that accessible like now.Also video games were not even mentioned than.

 

[mjmjpfaff]

What ever the term is ban these dam weapons before more and more killings happen. Hopefully Obama will start to do something asap with this new commission he appoints led by Biden.This is getting out of hand completely.

Which weapons exactly Marv? You do not care about the definition... How do you know what to ban then?

 

[mjmjpfaff]

The fault lies within the home itself. There were no safety systems, no safe, no lock and key, no out of reach system to prevent this guy from obtaining his weapon. I doubt the black market would be affordable for him.

All of us could argue on how to curtail the threat of gun violence. It will always be here, but the real question is how to reduce...not prevent.

Reduction decreases frequency which will help law enforcement manage gun crimes much easier. It will also be more economical as gun owners and sellers will not be subjected to hefty/costly regulations due to others stupidity.

Educate our country on gun operations and what they are for. Defense, not offense. Teach people how to store a gun safely, how to manage it safely, and the proper ways to use and discharge the system using high velocity projectiles.

I have an opinion on ownership of military grade weapons though. They are for military, not civilian. You do not need a semi- or full- automatic gun with a magazine to defend yourself unless you are a warrior. A simple pistol or rifle would do. I don't care if you buy 'assault weapons' for a hobby, there should be a reason why you should NOT own them!

I am not a gun enthusiast, owner, nor user. However, I feel that legally we are granted special rights to bear arms, whether guns, knives, Molotov cocktails, Chuck Norris, etc... and that our government should respect that.

Oh, and BTW, Obama cannot legally take your guns away. See, there is this piece of paper, called the Constitution... you should check it out sometime! If he does, his power as president is illegitimate. Same goes for congress and the supreme court.

What is a simple pistol or rifle in your opinion. This post is vague for any gun owner who knows their stuff. That is who this bill is aimed at. Try to be realistic

 

[mjmjpfaff]

Why the hell do we need guns period!In my time when i was growing up in the 50's we never needed guns to protect ourself.people more more humane and had more compassion than now.Also the internet was not that accessible like now.Also video games were not even mentioned than.

To protect ourselves Marv. Don't take your peaceful life for granted.
The second amendment was made to be our check on the government. In times of tyranny (hope there will never be any but we should always be prepared for the worst), the founding fathers gave us this right to take our freedoms back. Armed citizens created America, the founding fathers recognized that and gave the future generations the same means so we could overthrow tyranny.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

In my dads day, when someone fought, it was 1 on 1 only, as anything else was totally dishonorable.
No kicking either, boxing only.
As things got cooler, and mens attitudes towards being a "man" changed, eventually, anything goes.
We read stories of the civil war, where the north and south got together for Christmas for a meal etc.
This civilized society we live in today?
Its what the people want I guess

 

[dogman_1234]

What is a simple pistol or rifle in your opinion. This post is vague for any gun owner who knows their stuff. That is who this bill is aimed at. Try to be realistic

Excuse me for not being knowledgeable about guns like all of you are.

This was my opinion piece that I offered.

I had no clue there were technical terms for a 'pistol' and 'rifle'. I would figure gun gurus as yourselves would help clear any misinformation and help people make things less abstract.

 

[mjmjpfaff]

Excuse me for not being knowledgeable about guns like all of you are.

This was my opinion piece that I offered.

I had no clue there were technical terms for a 'pistol' and 'rifle'. I would figure gun gurus as yourselves would help clear any misinformation and help people make things less abstract.

Sorry that definitely came off way differently than I tried to put it.
I never want to offend you doggy.

Considering about 90% of rifles and pistols are semi-automatic, there is no way the US can ban them. There is a need for them. One must prepare for the worst if they want to prepare at all. In the Rodney King riots a man defended his store with a semi automatic weapon. His store would have been ruined if he did not have a semi automatic weapon. Who would have thought it would come to that? I bet the store owner did not think it would happen in a million years, but he still prepared for it. Also when you are under stress your 6" spread at the range goes to about 6'. One misses more under stress. If you had a single shot rifle or something that did not reload by itself and you miss while a crazed man armed with anything more than a club or a club, you could get seriously injured or even killed. Now one may think why not a lever action or a pump action gun. One can EASILY short stroke the action not cycling another round while trying to shoot fast. I have done that at a calm setting at a gun range. Imagine if you are under stress and the likelihood that, that could happen...

Going on to assault rifles and the definition. It is legal in CA (has an assault weapons ban much like the one that is proposed now by Feinstein) to own an AR-15. This would do close to nothing as the ban did in 1996. One can change magazines quickly (with the bullet button uncovered is the key) if and only if they do not have a pistol grip (look up monster man grips, or kidex grip wraps) no forward pistol grip. Mainly cosmetic stuff, that in reality, will maybe hurt the gun's hip firing accuracy. No gun with a bullet button can have 30rd magazines, but then you leave only the criminals to illegally have that. These gun free zones are really killing fields for the unprotected. It is only gun free if you have armed guards protecting the zone.

 

[wanamingo]

Its a difference in philosophy which is what makes this so difficult.

Some weapons facilitate mass killings that would have been much more difficult if the person didnt have an AR15 with 30 round clips.

People who are killed with knives feet or golf clubs are targeted individually vs someone who wants to kill as many people as possible. I want to make it as hard as possible to get your hands on guns that could kill lots of people real quick. A small caliber handgun should be enough for self defense, anything larger is useless for self defense (Unless again a dozen guys descend on your prepper compound).

Murders will always happen and the statistics show that if you want someone dead its easy to make it happen. I want it to be hard to kill multiple people real quick.

And dont forget the AR15 was used in Aurora, Sandy Hook, and with the DC sniper. I believe the columbine shooters used primarily handguns with extended clips. Same with Lautner (Giffords shooter) he used an extended clip.

So AR15's used in 3 of the worst shootings in American history.....

 

[mjmjpfaff]

^That is true about the Aurora shooter.

I have a problem with the Aurora shooter getting guns in the first place. How would a man with a psychiatrist get past a background check. IMO if you have a psychiatrist you should not own a gun.