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Microsoft Co-founder Calls Certain Win 8 Features ''Puzzling''

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October 4, 2012 12:42:50 AM

"While Allen was evidently critical of the operating system, Acer's founder had gone as far as to say that Windows 8 is more stable than Apple's latest mobile operating system, iOS 6."

LOL, nice little note right there!

In all honesty, I don't like W8, I'm going to stay with a dual boot of W7 and Ubuntu. When W7 finally starts feeling, old and lacking, I'll just fully migrate to Ubuntu or CentOS etc.

It just feels as if W8 will be much better if I had a touch screen monitor, and I don't want one because it'll have my finger prints all over it...and I don't want to be wiping off a 27" monitor daily xD
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21
October 4, 2012 12:43:27 AM

What i still don't understand is why the frak metro is overlaping the start menu... i'm trying to adapt, i really am, but damn its a rock in my shoe not having start menu...

Changes? yes, i can live with them, but why should i have to be this way on the desktop? it would be much more apreciative if they could apply them good changes (faster, responsive, the under the hood changes) and keep it with no metro and with the start menu... Windows 7 is a winner... why not work on it to make it better? why did they have to puke the metro hell all over a great OS?

it simply puzzles me...
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23
October 4, 2012 12:46:18 AM

I don't want to sound mean or anything, but anything you build, write, show, etc etc and intend to release it to the general public needs to be simple enough for a 12 year old to understand. This is what they teach in journalism school "keep it simple stupid" to the extreme. This is why lots of news articles are vague/lack detail and are short...

Microsoft seems to have lost sight of this.

An operating system designed to multi-function like this is much too complex for most people. That's just the way it is. Not everyone is computer nerds like us. I think what happened is there is some sort of conflict going on inside MS between the engineers and software packagers along with the accountants... which is nothing new, but in this case it seems to have gone to the extreme.
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October 4, 2012 1:00:03 AM

No thanks but I am sticking to XP, Vista, and Win 7 on my daily machines.
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October 4, 2012 1:04:29 AM

I've always wanted to use my computer like a phone...

Oh wait, no I haven't.
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October 4, 2012 1:14:01 AM

From the mouth of babes....
Finally someone seems to get it.
Guess that makes Paul Allen a troll too in some eyes
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October 4, 2012 1:26:25 AM

BigMack70Windows 8 is the worst desktop OS I've ever seen.

Then you haven't used Ubuntu then.. I hate the new interface of Ubuntu, give me gnome desktop any day over that crap Ubuntu installed by default without asking me if I want Gnome.....

As for your opinion from a consumer's point of view and Microsoft, you sir are irrelevant and account for the less then 1%'ers
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October 4, 2012 1:30:45 AM

AndrewMDThen you haven't used Ubuntu then.. I hate the new interface of Ubuntu, give me gnome desktop any day over that crap Ubuntu installed by default without asking me if I want Gnome..... As for your opinion from a consumer's point of view and Microsoft, you sir are irrelevant and account for the less then 1%'ers


The difference between Ubuntu and Windows 8 is that you can remove it and install Gnome, Micro$oft is trying to and is willing to remove all 3rd-party programs that implement the Start menu.
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October 4, 2012 1:32:26 AM

memadmaxI don't want to sound mean or anything, but anything you build, write, show, etc etc and intend to release it to the general public needs to be simple enough for a 12 year old to understand...


Don't mean to mean either, and I can't say it's your fault, but i think you're going to the wrong journalism school. As you say, journalism nowadays is the fact that everything is dumb down to the point of losing important details and meaning. That's not good!

We're supposed to be getting smarter as a species over time, not staying the same, or getting stupider. I think that if you don't challenge people at least a little then nothing will change. Quite frankly it's not that hard to use the OS. Most of the people I know or read about who have problems are simply turned off by the appearance of the interface and by not having the Start menu. Most simply don't care to try. If that's the case, nothing that was different from 7 would satisfy anyone, ever. We would have the same interface from 7 for ever, because the argument would always be that a new interface is confusing. Is it perfect? No. But I do appreciate the effort to do something new.
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October 4, 2012 1:35:55 AM

Windows 8 is OK as long as Classic Shell works with it.
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October 4, 2012 1:55:57 AM

echondoThe difference between Ubuntu and Windows 8 is that you can remove it and install Gnome, Micro$oft is trying to and is willing to remove all 3rd-party programs that implement the Start menu.


MS only got rid of programs that piggybacked on MS's start menu code. They're not doing anything about the third-party start menu programs that install a new start menu. Classic Shell, ViStart, Start8, and many more work very well (several of which let you log directly into the desktop) in all versions of 8 and Server 2012.
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October 4, 2012 2:43:39 AM

"introduce confusion"....really now....i wonder what gave that away, lol
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October 4, 2012 3:54:29 AM

PC is such a versatile tool, that any changes to the UI are likely to "introduce confusion" without proper training ( videos, slides, hands-on ). From a desktop point of view, the metro/modern is relatively pointless (although some of the live tiles are good), but imo is not something that takes anything away either, it's pretty much the same thing as the Start menu, after all.
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October 4, 2012 4:04:17 AM

I don't think it will be easy to convince the majority of guys to upgrade to an OS that uses "Charms" :-)
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October 4, 2012 4:22:19 AM

Well at least someone at Microsoft knows how to point out the negatives.
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October 4, 2012 4:31:59 AM

Now if only Microsoft would listen to him and the rest of us, and let us disable metro...
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October 4, 2012 4:34:28 AM

i've been saying this since Windows 8 went to Modern UI that they should make 2 versions Windows 8 pc edition and Windows 8 tablet edition and not try to combine the two into one OS that streches across both platform.
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October 4, 2012 4:34:49 AM

Quote:
Windows 8 on tablets, meanwhile, is "elegant, responsive, and stacks up nicely with other tablets on the market."


EXACTLY! Tablets and smartphones! I hope they avoid dirty plays to start shoving it down desktop user's throats.
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October 4, 2012 4:35:36 AM

memadmaxI don't want to sound mean or anything, but anything you build, write, show, etc etc and intend to release it to the general public needs to be simple enough for a 12 year old to understand.


Actually my 12 and 14 year olds picked it up with no fuss and bother. However my partner, who of course is older still struggles with it. I think it may be a matter of teaching an old dog new tricks that is the confusing bit. Like another person here said. It really does need to come with more training and walkthrough options on how to do stuff. Maybe the retail version will when it ships. But probably not.
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October 4, 2012 4:55:26 AM

I'll pass on Windows 8, but I have to code for it sadly ... agree that iOS6 is full of problems, but iOS6 (mobile) is not OSX (desktop). I'm passing on iOS6 also.

It seems the OS's of today are more about forcing people into a user interface they never really wanted - full of compromises. It's a interface used to leverage dubious business practices (aka iTunes only Apps, Windows 8 App Store).

I think Microsoft need to establish their OWN identity rather than just do whatever Apple does.

Bill Gates AND Paul Allen were both very critical of Windows 8 at a developer conference I went to ... it was kinda odd, I expected the party line speech and was treated to something very different.

It's not a matter of teaching an old dog new tricks, because the tricks are the same as before, except now you have more work to do to make the tricks happen ... i can't understand why "more work" would be a better way of doing anything??
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October 4, 2012 5:18:54 AM

Metro is made for touch screens. Period.
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October 4, 2012 5:41:48 AM

Balmer is barmy, the old boys no whats what, why can't that tool
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October 4, 2012 6:19:43 AM

Windows 8 desperately needs native settings to adjust Metro, we shouldn't be forced to deal with it if we don't want to. Microsoft is trying to force its "App Store" on the users without a choice.
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October 4, 2012 6:59:12 AM

BigMack70Windows 8 is the worst desktop OS I've ever seen.
You've obviously never tried: MS-DOS, MacOS 1.0~3.0, Amiga OS 1.x, Atari OS (TOS) which is MS-DOS with a MAC-like skin), Windows 1,2,3 (which are not Operating Systems)... GEOS64, but hey, that is 8 bit!

The things I LIKE about Windows 8:
- Windows Explorer (hide-able ribbon, UP button)
- Task Manager (ROCKS!! I give it a 10, the version in Win7,Vista,XP = 5)
- Copy Status Window
- Boot up speed (Low on my list thou)

Things I hate about Windows8
- METRO (METRO METRO - fuk you MS, I'll always call it METRO, you only change the name because it has become a dirty word... renaming it "Windows 8 UI" is 100% dead frog retarded)
- Charms
- METRO Skin job! (Take Windows 7, then make it UGLY) Win8 v8440 skin looks great!
For the most part, MS has just giving everyone Windows-Basic Skin... period. Its monkey-eating-his-poop ugly.
- Hidden Start Button and other crap in corners.
- Short-cut keys, that were never needed to begin with. WOW, "We developed the OS for touch, but you need a KEYBOARD to make it easy" - how damn stupid is that?!


HELP HURT MICROSOFT: Don't let your friends buy Windows8. Don't sell it to your clients. Buy a Mac! Oh crap, that is hurting yourself. Don't BUY any WIN8 powered tablet or phone. If you meet a MS employee, start laughing *cough* Eight.

By buying Windows8 and "fixing it" with aftermarket programs, you are supporting MS. Don't give them a dime. Already, the number of people getting Windows8 is 1/10th that of Windows7.

If we hurt MS badly, we'll see Windows 8.1 before February that gives options, fixes broken crap and maybe gives us a skin-style that wasn't designed by a person with no imagination.

*Bonus points to locate and name the person who (1) designed the Desktop UI style (2) the middle-management IDIOTS who said "yeah, this is good!".

2013: Steve Ballmer steps down as CEO of microsoft. No more monkey dances from him.
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October 4, 2012 7:09:32 AM

I'm buying win 8 as soon as its released, it makes my Bulldozer snappy compared to 7, and installing an app to improve it is the same as putting a new desktop on Ubuntu because Unity sucks. I love choice
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Anonymous
October 4, 2012 7:33:39 AM

re: metro

can you say microsoft bob 2.0


re: 2013: Steve Ballmer steps down as CEO of microsoft. No more monkey dances from him.

i totally agree

hey, hey! woh, woh! ballmer has to go! :) 

grandpa to step down and retire to greener pastures

he's well past use by date ;) 
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October 4, 2012 8:45:02 AM

AndrewMDThen you haven't used Ubuntu then.. I hate the new interface of Ubuntu, give me gnome desktop any day over that crap Ubuntu installed by default without asking me if I want Gnome..... As for your opinion from a consumer's point of view and Microsoft, you sir are irrelevant and account for the less then 1%'ers


Andrew, you know that all you have to do is install Gnome Classic from the software center and choose it on the login screen and voila, no more 'Unity', just good ole Gnome! It took me a grand total of 5 minutes to make that change (because I too hated the Unity UI).
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October 4, 2012 12:12:18 PM

hydac7Even Paul Allen hates it , so kill it with fire and burry it


Download start8 and you can boot in directly to desktop, have a startmenu with upgrades.

Difference? Took less than 5 minutes through internet explorer.

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October 4, 2012 12:12:44 PM

NiPPonD3nZ0What i still don't understand is why the frak metro is overlaping the start menu... i'm trying to adapt, i really am, but damn its a rock in my shoe not having start menu... Changes? yes, i can live with them, but why should i have to be this way on the desktop? it would be much more apreciative if they could apply them good changes (faster, responsive, the under the hood changes) and keep it with no metro and with the start menu... Windows 7 is a winner... why not work on it to make it better? why did they have to puke the metro hell all over a great OS?it simply puzzles me...

It is still Vista only rev. 3.0, severely slimed of one garbage to another ...

It is hard to sell again the same thing, so they put on it "new paint" ...

It can go for touch screens, but it is poor for PC with big screens and for real work !
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Anonymous
October 4, 2012 12:31:25 PM

I do not know why, but I am really hoping win 8 Tanks bad.

Its the lack of choice that frustrates me, Choice over the UI and choice over the Style of my OS.

I have run Win 8 since Developer Preview and after all this time, I still absolutely hate Metro so much it detracts 100% from the improvements.
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October 4, 2012 12:59:17 PM

BigMack70Windows 8 is the worst desktop OS I've ever seen.

Windows over Ubuntu any day. At least from an administrative point of view.

Drivers for Ubuntu? Either too old, too outdated, or some odd instalaion method with unpredictable results, possibly hours of sitting online and searching for stuff...

Drivers for windows? a few clicks on buttons like "Next" and "Change" and you're done.

Honestly i feel that Ubuntu is a bit impractical (normal users can't mount external HDDs without modifications???? WTF.) and OS X too annoying (and a bit stupid: "Would you like to click the magical button on the right or the pretty one on the left?")...

Either it's because i've grown up with windows, or because it actually deserves the 90% market share it has, but at the risk of sounding fanboyish, i think it's actually one of the best operating systems out there, at least for consumers. Businesses might like custom stuff, so linux wins there.

Actually linux wins anywhere where customization is important. Otherwise Windows, i think.
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October 4, 2012 1:10:06 PM

ojas, how long has it been since you used Ubuntu, first one I used was Lucid Linx, and all versions since then you just plug the externalhardrive in and a file browser window just opens, and drivers, vast majority are already built into the kernal, and if it isn't you just load the extra hardware app and it detects and downloads and installs for you, anything else the manufacturer are assholes and not worth supporting. The last major bug bear I could thing off was the drivers for broadcom chips, and as of a year or so ago they came onboard and their drivers are in the kernal. Id things are still playing up you have seriously messed up your install. Unless you actually know this and your trolling like Loverock Davidson on cnet and other sites like that
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October 4, 2012 1:21:55 PM

For the 11 year olds that are not grasping Windows 8 on the desktop.

1. Delete as many of the Metro/Modern apps as you can.

2. Switch the default apps to the Desktop ones.

3. Use pretty much as 7 but with better boot times and other good stuff.

4. Wait till you are 12.
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1
October 4, 2012 1:26:09 PM

Jesus christ MS just give us the option to disable Metro and people will be more likely to buy it.
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a b * Windows 8
October 4, 2012 2:29:10 PM

So, if Steam actually delivers on providing a viable gaming platform via Linux, how many Windows 8 haters will actually make the move to Linux?

Think about it.

Hint: The answer is likely near zero and people will keep buying MS's stuff because they are too lazy to do otherwise.
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October 4, 2012 2:35:37 PM

It might be nice if Windows would just listen to its users needs. Yes we need an operationg system for tablets. Yes we need the ability to use a touchscreen if the user wants that. Yes we also need a desktop computer OS. Just make 2 separate versions one for desktop and one for tablets.

You just can not deny that Microsoft does not listen to its customers. Remember the majority of its customers that place large orders are Businesses and large corporate clients. Does Microsoft even care about its customers?
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October 4, 2012 3:22:07 PM

This is just like all those that bitched like crazy about the Star Wars Blu-ray sets and how Lucas had 'raped their childhoods' was just after their money, didnt care etc. etc.

But then all lined up on the Monday morning to buy their precious boxset like good little boys.

Predictable if nothing else.
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October 4, 2012 3:38:19 PM

I'm being serious here. Can someone explain to me the problem they are having with 8 being "designed for tablets not for desktops"? I mean, what exactly is the difference that is troubling so many people? My mouse works fine. There's a larger target with the tiles, IMO, and i haven't had any problems using my mouse to navigate my screen. I want to understand what people are seeing and feeling different from me.
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October 4, 2012 4:50:23 PM

Teeroy32ojas, how long has it been since you used Ubuntu, first one I used was Lucid Linx, and all versions since then you just plug the externalhardrive in and a file browser window just opens, and drivers, vast majority are already built into the kernal, and if it isn't you just load the extra hardware app and it detects and downloads and installs for you, anything else the manufacturer are assholes and not worth supporting. The last major bug bear I could thing off was the drivers for broadcom chips, and as of a year or so ago they came onboard and their drivers are in the kernal. Id things are still playing up you have seriously messed up your install. Unless you actually know this and your trolling like Loverock Davidson on cnet and other sites like that

No, not trolling. Haven't used it for too long, but it was supposed to go into a basic work machine. I just hope i'm not making the wrong choice, and till now i've felt a bit uneasy with it. Stuff seems too hidden away in the name of security, you can't partition the disk from within the OS, i have to mount partitions as paths that i'm not familiar with (i know what \home is for, but it's like, i don't want an entire partition for \temp! and what does \usr do exactly? where are the programs installed? etc.)...what's wrong with drive letters? i just kept sudo bash-ing all the time...change refresh rate? no, can't...re-postion the dock? no, can't...

i don't mind getting running the console at times (feels kind of cool :D  ), but for so many things...
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October 4, 2012 5:15:15 PM

I love Windows 8 and I love Metro and no, I don't work for Microsoft but I work for one of Microsoft's competitors...
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1
October 4, 2012 5:19:05 PM

I understand not liking the new ui, what seems silly is the start menu rage; metro is all start menu:

from the desktop you hit windows and start typing, from metro you just start typing.

If you are clicking through the start menu, you are wrong: pin items to the taskbar, or use instant search; everything else is a waste of time.
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October 4, 2012 6:42:07 PM

Windows 8 Start Button and Desktop issue solved. $4.00 buy it and move on.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

I am really over all the complaining on Windows 8 and people complaining just to complain. I have a Tri 32" monitor system at home that has been running Windows 8 CP and now RTM as my daily driver. First of all I will admit, I had to get use to the new OS but after a few hours of use. I am just efficient as I was on Windows 7 if not more. (I have no less then 7 Programs running at any given time.) If you have that hard of a time learning a new OS then you might want to start questioning your own intelligence on the matter and complaining about progress.
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Anonymous
October 4, 2012 8:12:47 PM

IT is not about intelligence, it is about choice. Microsoft is trying to force a tablet interface on the desktop user! Microsoft should have allowed the desktop user to choose, but no Microsoft just wants to force feed the Metro/Modern TABLET GUI on all! In Visual Studio 2012 For the windows desktop, they removed the menu choice, for C++ managed code applications, for creating a windows Forms Application, and this is the version of VS users recieved after much outcry from desktop developers. Microsoft does not want any more windows forms desktop applications in C++, forget the large base of desktop applications that business are still using .NET Microsoft wants it .gone. Now windows 7 users will make thier choice, just as windows XP users have done in the past, in responce to Microsoft's "New and better mousetrap."
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October 4, 2012 8:34:09 PM

That’s funny, I don't feel forced to use metro at all and spend 100% of my time on the desktop of Windows 8. Hell I haven't seen the Metro UI since I used Stardock8. Again problem solved and move on.

On the program side, yes Microsoft had to make some changes, to go with the market and as much as people are downplaying. The desktop is becoming less and less often main state of Personal and Enterprise computing and mobile/tablets are taking over. Don't get me wrong here; you will have to pry my Gaming Rig from my cold dead hands before I would ever go to tablet/cloud gaming. But what a lot of users don't release is Microsoft largest income is from Enterprise. As I am an IT Executive, I can tell you that business is moving to tablets and mobile because that is what everyone wants and Microsoft isn't going to lose its bread and butter to home users complaining about losing a 15year+ feature.

So like with any company, they made a choice. You have to move with the times or let the times pass you by.
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October 4, 2012 8:45:52 PM

BetterMouseCrapIT is not about intelligence, it is about choice. Microsoft is trying to force a tablet interface on the desktop user! Microsoft should have allowed the desktop user to choose, but no Microsoft just wants to force feed the Metro/Modern TABLET GUI on all! In Visual Studio 2012 For the windows desktop, they removed the menu choice, for C++ managed code applications, for creating a windows Forms Application, and this is the version of VS users recieved after much outcry from desktop developers. Microsoft does not want any more windows forms desktop applications in C++, forget the large base of desktop applications that business are still using .NET Microsoft wants it .gone. Now windows 7 users will make thier choice, just as windows XP users have done in the past, in responce to Microsoft's "New and better mousetrap."


But no one is FORCING you to do anything. They haven't cancelled support for 7. No one is going to force an install of 8 on your drive. Don't like the new Visual Studio, keep up with the old one. Obviously Visual Studio 2012 is for designing for the new OS, they're not going to be doing anything more than a few patches on 7 here on out, so there's no need to update to a new version of Visual Studio if you're still designing for 7. If you're designing for 8, you can't expect them to offer you tools for soemthing they aren't even supporting for the newe OS anymore.

Saying they've forced 8 on you is like having a car with a stick shift, the car company selling a new model with paddle shifters, and complaining that they're forcing you to buy a car with paddle shifters. Just don't buy it if you don't like it. That's your right as a consumer. If you don't want to adapt to new changes, that's your choice and right. But don't make some backwards argument about people forcing stuff on you. Not trying something new is one of the complaints people have been making about PC hardware and software makers for a long time now, and now that one has actually tried it, so many seem to be opposed to letting it run its course as an experiment.
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October 5, 2012 12:21:43 AM

DRosencraftBut no one is FORCING you to do anything. They haven't cancelled support for 7. No one is going to force an install of 8 on your drive.
You are VERY VERY WRONG on this. Lets say its April 2013, you need to build or buy another PC desktop or notebook for yourself or friend, family, client.

You options are: Windows8 or Windows8 Pro.

So yeah, WE ARE SCREWED.
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October 5, 2012 1:13:28 AM

sgtgimpyWindows 8 Start Button and Desktop issue solved. $4.00 buy it and move on. http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ I am really over all the complaining on Windows 8 and people complaining just to complain.
...or just NOT ever buy Win8 or a Win8 PC and stick with Win7 for the next 15 years.
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October 5, 2012 2:18:39 AM

DRosencraftWe're supposed to be getting smarter as a species over time, not staying the same, or getting stupider.
You should watch Idiocracy. It's the future!
echondoThe difference between Ubuntu and Windows 8 is that you can remove it and install Gnome, Micro$oft is trying to and is willing to remove all 3rd-party programs that implement the Start menu.
You see, the primary difference between you and Luciferano is that he knows what he's talking about, whereas you... don't. As he and lightsol both pointed out, there are options already out there and the OS isn't even released yet. So stop spreading lies.
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October 5, 2012 8:15:55 AM

If there's was a second OS to choose (like the Windows vs OS/2 era) Microsoft would NEVER try to train its userbase so as to sell more mobile products. But we live in a Monopoly world, laptops and OEM desktops will be sold with W8 preinstalled, and in 8 months they will tell us what a great success the new W8 is. Pretty much the same as Vista, that sucked really hard but still didn't declined in sales because there was no alternative other than Windows XP. Enjoy your Monopoly sir!
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!