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I WANT 7900GT AGP!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 7, 2006 12:19:25 PM

guys tell me is this series available AT ALL in AGP? Not askin whether you saw it somewhere or heard about it. I need facts please so I can order one. (No, not starting to explain why AGP, sorry).

I would really like to get 7900 instead 7800. Thank you!

More about : 7900gt agp

a b U Graphics card
April 7, 2006 12:35:27 PM

Alas, it is not, and likely never will be...

The best you can do for AGP is Gainwards 7800GS, which, unlike the other 7800GS variants, does have all 20 pixel pipelines enabled, and sould come qite close to a 7800GT's performance in a PCi-e rig...
April 7, 2006 12:55:40 PM

Hmm so not 16pipes? 20? Not sure they can order one for me. Live in a small country, with stupid minimalistic demands from outside. :(  Ordering from net is too expensive as well. I was thinking about MSI 7800Gs. :?
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April 7, 2006 3:42:30 PM

If Gainward can do it with the 7800GT there is no technical reason they can't do it with a 7900GT chip.
April 7, 2006 4:28:55 PM

Gainward has a 7800 GT-like 20-pipeline 7800 GS. That's the best you can get in AGP.

All other 7800 GS' are 16 pipes.

A Gainward 7800 GS is probably the best card that will ever be available for AGP, unfortunately...
April 7, 2006 4:56:22 PM

My understanding is that the Gainward uses the 7800GT PCIe chip which they have connected using some kind of bridge chip to get it working on the AGP interface.

Read about it in The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30502).

Since the 7800GT PCIe and 7900GT PCIe are pin compatiable then the bridge should allow Gainward to swap out the 7800 for a shiny 7900.

There could be an obvious technical reason that it might not work, but I'm not aware of it.
April 7, 2006 5:06:38 PM

Oh, I'm certain it can be done... I simply doubt it will be done.

Gainward already has the AGP crown, not much incentive for them to go further.
April 7, 2006 5:58:26 PM

Darn it won't AGP just die already. Nothing against anyone who has an AGp card, I had AGP till 4 months ago, but it has reached the point where AGP just can't keep up with the necessary headroom. 7900GTX only occupy an equivelant of PCI X4 (THG tested this back on the 6800 Ultra, so it can't be that much more) and AGP bus is mostly saturated. I do not know the exact % of the bus, but its damn near full also, from what I understand, the AGP slot design can not provide as much power across the bus as PCI-e can.
April 7, 2006 6:24:58 PM

So just leave it alone Superfly. Sheesh, how insecure are you? I didn't know how many PCIe users are intimidated by AGP cards. :wink:
April 7, 2006 6:35:45 PM

AGp is not used by high end gamers ne more. It's all about the PCIe
It will be some time until agp dies out, the best agp card in the market today would have to be Evga 780gs sc [superclocked]. Thats as good as it gets for agp. But who know, one day 7900gt might come out on agp, but I doubt it :twisted:
April 7, 2006 6:53:45 PM

The gainward 7800GS destroys the eVga 7800GS superclock; 512MB of RAM, 20 pixel pipelines, and 7 vertex shaders.
April 7, 2006 7:31:15 PM

Quote:

It will be some time until agp dies out, the best agp card in the market today would have to be Evga 780gs sc [superclocked]. Thats as good as it gets for agp.


Nope, like Heyyou said, Gainwards beats out EVGA's superclocked card with an extra 4 pipes.
April 7, 2006 8:32:23 PM

AGP will die.
If I upgrade the mobo to get PCIe, I will need new everything.
That is why I am waiting for the Conroe or the next big AMD chip.
April 7, 2006 10:01:05 PM

Quote:
guys tell me is this series available AT ALL in AGP? Not askin whether you saw it somewhere or heard about it. I need facts please so I can order one. (No, not starting to explain why AGP, sorry).

I would really like to get 7900 instead 7800. Thank you!


Ain't ever gonna happen, bud. Sorry
April 7, 2006 10:29:37 PM

I wouldn't go so far to say it will never happen. The market will determine if it will and we'll see if the market will support it. I heard the same thing about a 7800 in AGP flavor but we see those cards now.
April 7, 2006 11:10:39 PM

There is a reason why AGP cards are priced so high for the amount of performance you get. Its people like you that are willing to give into their marketing plans. It is most likely costing them too much, and will cost them too much to continue to make AGP cards if the majority of people that go for AGP are using lower end systems than PCIe users. Just get your self a cheap PCIe mobo and a PCIe GPU card so you don't have to fork over that much more money, and waiting the inevitable shift to PCIe down the road. Its going to harder to get rid of your AGP card if more and more people are getting rid of their AGP setups.
April 8, 2006 12:01:39 AM

Quote:
Stop hoping for that. AGP are basically dead. Besides the 20-pipe 7800GS, nothing new should be released. Probably the Conroe and AM2 won't even support AGP.


It will on my mobo (see my sig.)...it has AM2 expansion board slot on it...

Quote:
highly doubt that Conroe and AM2 will support AGP. AGP is basically dead. s939 and P4s do support AGP, but don't count that AGP will be supported on new-gen platforms.


As I said, it would have to--the fact that the riser slot is on my mobo elludes to that. Someone else stated and I agree--the demand in the market will be the deciding factor.
April 8, 2006 12:58:13 AM

That is not what I said at all. I said, the market will dictate what agp cards are supplied to the market. Any other talk about AGP being dead will be dictated by the market. I am not saying at all if the wise choice is to go to PCI-E, or not. I'm simply saying for those who say AGP is dead, well, we'll see.

IRT Pokemon: Sure, market drives prices. AGP cards come at a premium, but do not mistake that for the fact that people may [not] be willing to buy AGP cards at a premium price.
April 8, 2006 1:29:51 AM

Thats why I am saying they are, but when I speak to those that are looking for the bang for the buck at the high end market, AGP cannot supply that need.
April 8, 2006 1:43:06 AM

Quote:
Thats why I am saying they are, but when I speak to those that are looking for the bang for the buck at the high end market, AGP cannot supply that need.


I am not speaking about bang for the buck. Bang for the buck is determined by the market, i.e. the person who wants to buy it.

I've got a bunch of AGP boards, which I've recently bought a few AGP cards for....which AGP cards aren't the issue. The issue is that I might be willing to buy higher end AGP cards, and I will determine if I'm willing to buy what products. If those products are available then I might buy them. That is what will drive the market, not the fact that some people say there is no market.
April 8, 2006 1:43:12 AM

Quote:
I don't put too much hope into that expansion slot also.


Since ASRock had one on display at the CES this year--and one of those was plugged into my mobo--well need I say more?
April 8, 2006 1:57:03 AM

I'm starting to get confused, and I don't want this to become a hate fest of any sort. I just can't seem to get what your main point is. Your next post will be one sentence, what is it that you are saying about someone who wants to buy a high end cAGP card, like a 7900GS, if it existed?

And to clear up any misconceptions you may have:
I don't think there is no AGP market. I think there is one there and it is actually almost only applicable to cards in the mid-high end range of the 6800GS and up. The amount of money one puts into to get a AGP card may be the same amount of money put into a PCIe card. Though, the PCIe card will give a better bang. This not because of technology, but because of the companies.

The customers must rely on what ever Nvidia or ATI is willing to not only sell them, but at what price. There is a market there, but only because the company chose to release the 7800GS, which hasn't been noted to produce the bang all the AGP owners were hoping for. I personally thought that the release of the 7800GS was a good reason to upgrade to PCIe if you were looking at the 7800GS, since you could get a motherboard and a better 7800GT for the same price. I would hate to imagine what a 7900GS would do. I'm sure it would cause more problems than solutions.
April 8, 2006 12:28:48 PM

Quote:
I'm starting to get confused, and I don't want this to become a hate fest of any sort. I just can't seem to get what your main point is. Your next post will be one sentence, what is it that you are saying about someone who wants to buy a high end cAGP card, like a 7900GS, if it existed?



I'm saying if a 7900gs existed then the person who wants an upgrade will decide if they get a benefit from it. That's all.

I'm not getting into a pissing match here either, and I guess I don't understand your point, unless you are just saying that for you, the bang for the buck would be to upgrade the whole box. All I'm trying to say is that I might want to max out all my AGP boxes instead of upgrade all of them to PCI-E, and the manufacturers will decide if there are enough people like me to make it worth while to bring out another AGP card.

So, in short, I'm still not so sure AGP is dead, in terms of the 7800GS being the last card. That's where I started in this thread and it has come full circle. :wink:
a b U Graphics card
April 8, 2006 8:56:06 PM

Trust me, nobody would like to see AGP live longer than me. But, seeing how the top cards are not available in AGP and the price difference between ones available, maxing out AGP systems is really not in your best interest. I have a few good ones (6800U, X800XTpe, AIW X800XT), but how well will they game in a year compared to a $300 X1800XT? If I were smart I'd dump them now along with the mobos and AXP's. It's not that a 2.4GHz AXP, NF2, X800XTpe is a bad gamer, but I paid $229 for that card and it's way over $300 now. No AGP system out there can come close to handling oblivion at 10x7 max details, so what does that say for future games? High end AGP is basically just midrange video cards, and spending $300 for that seems like getting little return for the money. Seeing AGP X850XT's go over $300 and seeing PCI-e ones drop to $155, did it in for me. Same perfromance for half the price; ugh. For some the 7800GS can make sense, but it sure gets spanked by a X1800XT or 7900GT for similar prices. Your money just does alot more in PCI-e.
April 9, 2006 1:36:04 AM

So Ageia releases the PhysX card on a PCI interface.....not PCIe. This is supposed to be A REVOLUTIONARY card and its not for the "leading edge interface" of PCIe.

How about that, you uber video zelaots out there....care to bang the drum of the "PCI video card is dead" mantra too??? :wink:

Yawn. It is trully amazing how some people just can't stand to see a reliable format like AGP still have new card offerings.....
April 9, 2006 6:07:33 AM

Quote:
So just leave it alone Superfly. Sheesh, how insecure are you? I didn't know how many PCIe users are intimidated by AGP cards. :wink:


Lol

Intimidated? Na

Annoyed at being forced into a corner and having ot switch GPU slot types? Yes

Grrr progress 8O
April 9, 2006 6:10:02 AM

I'm guessing they stuck to the PCI bus because 1) the data flow doesn't saturate even the PCI bus 2) so everyone will be able to use it

Ok, im grasping at straws but im just tossing out possible reasons. Either way I want to see how SLI Physics stacks up because my 7900GTX's (as soon as i get to sending the old 7800 gtx's in) sure have some horepower to spare.
April 12, 2006 11:03:47 AM

Quote:
Alas, it is not, and likely never will be...


They should listen to customers more, than just "building the future" as they believe it should be. Companies might earn more that way. Where I live, high-end AGP cards are out of stock everywhere. But the demand is hugh. You see the tests and even new am2 chipset is a waste of money (for teh time being). I was thinking about buying a "big-big computer"... But its a waste of money at the moment, to buy an x2 system on 939chipest.

...

Just trying to get hold on the agp card... out of stock everywhere. Ridiculous I must say.
April 15, 2006 5:59:02 AM

A French site is reporting imminent release of the 7900GT AGP:

http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/28042-Apres-les-7600G...

Can't wait to throw my 3.8GHz Northwood at this puppy and see what she can do.

And I wish those who've been suggesting (or even insisting) for almost TWO YEARS now that no new AGP cards will be released would -- once and for all -- STFU. Millions of us out here have very high-end AGP systems, we don't need PCI-e, and we won't be upgrading to it for at least another year or two. Kudos to Nvidia for realizing it.
April 15, 2006 2:37:23 PM

Quote:
A French site is reporting imminent release of the 7900GT AGP:

http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/28042-Apres-les-7600G...

Can't wait to throw my 3.8GHz Northwood at this puppy and see what she can do.

And I wish those who've been suggesting (or even insisting) for almost TWO YEARS now that no new AGP cards will be released would -- once and for all -- STFU. Millions of us out here have very high-end AGP systems, we don't need PCI-e, and we won't be upgrading to it for at least another year or two. Kudos to Nvidia for realizing it.


It's possible. I think NVIDIA should seriously consider an AGP version of the 7600GS. That'd appeal to many more folks IMO than the 7900 would just because the price would be right. We need a decent SM 3.0 capable AGP card that's affordable for the common folk. The x1600PRO AGP corners that area, and NVIDIA should grab it while they can.
April 15, 2006 3:15:06 PM

Superfly, why don't you buy the guy a board that supports PCI-e and a video card so it won't bother you so much.
I bet you have 12 cats, man you're lost.
April 15, 2006 3:20:20 PM

Annoyed at being forced into a corner and having ot switch GPU slot types? Yes

Who forced you, may I ask ?
April 15, 2006 3:30:39 PM

Why do you say your setup is so high-end? I just don't get people like you who say that you can get more performance out of AGP than out of PCIe, unless money isn't important to you. Even then, I don't see why you wouldn't have an SLI/Crossfire setup. I'm going to go get drunk right now because I am confused as hell. I'll come back later and see if any of it will make sense. Focking shit am I confused as hell!!!
April 15, 2006 6:18:31 PM

Who claimed AGP offers "more performance" than PCI-e? All I said is, AGP is more than enough for most people, at least for the next year or two. And clock for clock Intel's Northwood slams the door on Prescott.

As for SLI/Crossfire it's been an unqualified financial disaster for both NV and ATI. As it should be. I mean, for 98% of the market, the idea of spending $1000 just to play a $20 video game is beyond ridiculous. Most people can't even justify more than $300 for a video upgrade that will be obsolete within a year (Vista/DX10/etc).

No, I'll be holding on to this AGP system at least for another year, probably two.
April 15, 2006 6:58:55 PM

I agree that I will be hanging onto my AGP system(s) for quite a bit longer. My only issue is that a 7800GS (or 6800GS) AGP is more expensive than the equivalent PCIe 7800GS/6800GS .. so much so that for the difference in price, you could just about buy a PCIe motherboard .. granted that doesn't include the new procesor, ram, etc that you would need ..

Stephen
April 15, 2006 8:50:05 PM

I'd like someone to name a game that CAN'T be played on an AGP, only on PCI-e. I believe there isn't one. To lay into someone just because they still run AGP is retarded. Just because someone has gonnoreah that doesn't mean I'm going to go out and get it too.So if the AGP bus is saturated, then another card shouldn't run faster even with a better GPU, yeah right, I think not.
April 15, 2006 9:29:46 PM

Quote:
Superfly, why don't you buy the guy a board that supports PCI-e and a video card so it won't bother you so much.
I bet you have 12 cats, man you're lost.


Funny you say 12 cats...I DO have 12 cats. :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
April 16, 2006 5:44:57 AM

Quote:
Trust me, nobody would like to see AGP live longer than me.


You cannot save it, it must DIE! :twisted:

Quote:
But, seeing how the top cards are not available in AGP and the price difference between ones available, maxing out AGP systems is really not in your best interest...
Your money just does alot more in PCI-e.


I bet half the knobs going on and on about AGP couldn't name the last AGP chip made.

The bridge is going to always make the card cost more for producers, so unless they or the reseller eats the ddiference, it's going to cost more money. And considering the high end market doesn't own AGP anymore (if they did they aren't high end anymore, it's that simple) then the same premium per card is obviously not out there that there is for PCIe. People who aren't worried about holding on to their old rigs and bang/buck are long ago into the PCIe world.
April 16, 2006 8:26:30 AM

Quote:
The bridge is going to always make the card cost more for producers

Yeah, roughly US$5 more. Big whoop. Maybe I should junkbin my $180 IC7-G, $500 Corsair XMS and $300 Northwood just to save $5 and gain 5FPS in games that already run perfectly fine.
April 16, 2006 2:19:53 PM

Quote:
The bridge is going to always make the card cost more for producers

Yeah, roughly US$5 more. Big whoop. Maybe I should junkbin my $180 IC7-G, $500 Corsair XMS and $300 Northwood just to save $5 and gain 5FPS in games that already run perfectly fine.

Yep - the price difference is neglible for producers, yet they charge $20-$50 more for the AGP variant of a PCIe card ... so lame ... I will probably just get a 6800GS AGP for $199 and let that be my last AGP card ..
April 17, 2006 1:20:23 PM

The price difference is more than likely supply and demand, not cost of the bridge alone. They aren't producing AGP cards for OEM computer manufacturers, so the overall market for AGP is reduced. Lower demand, smaller production runs, higher production costs.

I think there is obviously still a market for AGP cards, but you can expect to pay a premium for it. Perhaps it still does not justify upgrading the entire box, but the consumer ultimately will make the decision when/if it is time to switch to PCI-ex.
April 17, 2006 3:00:58 PM

Quote:
They aren't producing AGP cards for OEM computer manufacturers

...

the consumer ultimately will make the decision when/if it is time to switch to PCI-ex.


And there's the problem. Your two statements are mutually exclusive. If consumers want or need to keep their expensive AGP video hardware and buy a new motherboard, they're SOL. Your "They" refers to a cabal of a handful of companies, who dictate to the market when it will upgrade. The same goes for CPU/chipset manufacturers. Consumers no longer have a choice, and if PCI-e isn't currently needed by 98% of the market, they're being forced to upgrade to it anyway.
April 17, 2006 3:29:33 PM

My statements were meant to be mutually exclusive. And, when AGP came out did you see OEM computer manufacturers not switch to it? I don't think so. Perhaps they switched to it in the form of onboard AGP with no AGP slot for future upgrading, but that's another issue entirely.

I don't fault the computer or chipset manufacturers for making the switch to PCI-e. I think people are under the assumption that PCI-e is a replacement for AGP. It's not. It's a replacement for a long aging PCI bus that improved how the entire machine communicates, and along with it came a change to the video solution also.

Do I think there is still life in AGP? Yes. Do I think there is a market for higher end AGP cards? Yes. Do I think they should be the same price as PCI-e equivalent cards? Not necessarily. Do I wish they should make them anyway? Yes.
April 17, 2006 4:12:19 PM

Fair enough, and just for the record I do admit your basic point, that AGP (PCI) obviously isn't fast enough to stay around forever. It's just the timing of it that I have a problem with. Few if any games can saturate an AGP8X bus, yet we're being told 16X is "needed". That's a complete crock, at least right now, and consumers should still have a choice if they need to replace a motherboard.
April 17, 2006 4:21:22 PM

I don't recall seeing anywhere it said that we need 16x? If it was said, it's marketing spin, but that's not unusual. Consumers always read too much into things, just like the PSU hysteria.
April 17, 2006 5:05:29 PM

Get the 7800GS SC. It's GOOD, really.
It blows the 6600GT out of the water. Specs are only a little higher, but you notice you can add anti-aliasing AND Transparent Anti-aliasing AND play higher res AND see more eye candy AND get more framerates AND everything just looks a lot smoother without hickups. (On every game I have)
Watching 3Dmark 05 on a 6600 is like a slide show, when on the 7800 GS looks almost playable. BTW. if you can't watch all the Nvidia demos before, you can with this card. (if you watch Dawn Ultra before, it looked like a fast slide show, with this new card you forget there was a problem)

As many other posters point out, AGP is dead. So this card is only worth it if you have a Athlon 64+ or Pentium 4 HT+ with 1+ gig RAM to play ALL current games.
I am happy with the 7800GS and I plan to buy new everything in 1 year anyway.
April 17, 2006 10:40:52 PM

If it's a replacement why do we still have PCI slots ? It seems they only wanted to replace AGP to me.
April 17, 2006 10:46:55 PM

Dude, it's only dead to the manufactureres not us. It's sort of like Dual Cores, people have em, less programs than fingers on one hand to make use of 2 cores, now they are touting Quad Cores,....for fucking what lol ? To make us upgrade shit we don't need and can't even use.
Someone tell me when an AGP Bus has been saturated PLEASE !!!!!!
I've been looking and can't find anywhere that's happened.
April 17, 2006 11:26:34 PM

Quote:
If it's a replacement why do we still have PCI slots ? It seems they only wanted to replace AGP to me.


Why did AGP boards have ISA slots?

Quote:
Dude, it's only dead to the manufactureres not us. It's sort of like Dual Cores, people have em, less programs than fingers on one hand to make use of 2 cores, now they are touting Quad Cores,....for ****** what lol ? To make us upgrade **** we don't need and can't even use.
Someone tell me when an AGP Bus has been saturated PLEASE !!!!!!
I've been looking and can't find anywhere that's happened.


I never said it was dead. As for dual core, it is usefull for multitasking. 2 different threads will use different cores.

This is starting to sound like some people never want to ever get better technology and other people never want to have any upgrades for old technology. We can have both, and should. Peaceful coexistance. :wink:
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