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920D vs X2 3800+

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April 8, 2006 2:43:17 AM

Hello all,
I'm planning on buying either:
-I945P Mobo(msi neo-f)+920D
-X2 3800+

I already have a 939 mobo but even counting the mobo, with the deal i have on the 920D+mobo it's slightly lower than the X2.
I already have a zalman copper atm(CNPS7000-Cu), but ihave no idea if it'll fit on the 920D since it's a 775.(i think it wont, so i'll have to stay with the stock cooler at least fora few days).

Currently i have a 3200+(stock speed), and because of the usage i have of it, i need to overclock the x2-3800+/920D to a speed at least sufficient so that mono-thread application are as fast as on my 3200+. (My usage is a mix of multithreaded apps(afx, xvid, photoshop) and monothread renderers i work on).

Which would you recommend?

Thanks for any help,

DeathWolf

More about : 920d 3800

April 8, 2006 3:15:41 AM

Quote:
Currently i have a 3200+(stock speed), and because of the usage i have of it, i need to overclock the x2-3800+/920D to a speed at least sufficient so that mono-thread application are as fast as on my 3200+. (My usage is a mix of multithreaded apps(afx, xvid, photoshop) and monothread renderers i work on).


Since you mentionned already owning a Socket 939 mobo, I assume that your current 3200+ is based on Socket 939, therefore running at 2GHz, quite conviniently the same frequency as a stock X2 3800+ core.

Seeing that you consider overclocking and already have a nice heatsink at hand, reaching frequencies around 2.5GHz on a X2 3800+ should be relatively easy and provide you with the kind of computing that you seek.

As for the 920 & matched mobo being cheaper than the X2 3800+, keep in mind that you'll have to buy DDR2 memory (assuming that you already have memory on your current 3200+ 'rig and will be performing a simple "drop-the-CPU-in" upgrade) if you do decide to go for a 920D.

All in all, getting the X2 will give you the most bang for buck, especially if you plan on overclocking it, you could also consider the Socket 939 Opteron 165, clocked at 1.8GHz, slightly more expensive but featuring 2x 1MB of L2 cache, which is a widely recognized overclocker.
April 8, 2006 3:23:15 AM

indeed, i had forgotten about the ddr2... since i already own 2GB of DDR i guess it might be wiser to go for the 3800+. As for the 165 i'll prolly get one for my other rig which runs 939 too, but since i need a new cpu rather fast and the opteron 165 seems pretty hard to get i guess the 3800+ will do it for now.
Does the 512k of cache vs 1MB for opteron 165/toledo cores make a real difference?
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April 8, 2006 3:28:45 AM

Since your going to overclock it, I would definately go with the opty 165. You can get them fairly fast from zipzoomfly or newegg. And I would always opt for the larger L2 cache. Yes it does give it an improvement in performance with certain apps.
April 8, 2006 3:37:18 AM

The influence of L2 cache on performance is very situational, some games/apps benefit greatly, others don't.

Glancing over benchmarks of X2 3800+ vs Opties 170, X2 4200+ vs X2 4400+ or X2 4600+ vs X2 4800+ (so cache is the only variable) should give you a good idea whether or not the games/apps that you use/plan on using would benefit from the additional cache.

A 1-2% difference would'nt be worth spending more money although Toledo cores generally overclock better than Manchesters at the expense of requiring more voltage and running hotter.

Quote:
Since your going to overclock it, I would definately go with the opty 165. You can get them fairly fast from zipzoomfly or newegg. And I would always opt for the larger L2 cache. Yes it does give it an improvement in performance with certain apps.


My initial idea was to get an Opty 165 for my current 'rig, alas, no local retailers could get a hold of them since those were in such high demand on a worldwide scale.

Although I could have purchased one online, I prefer to buy locally (good for the economy) as officially RMA'ing can be an extreme time sink compared to taking a 5 minute walk to get a new one from a local retailer that greet you with your first name.
April 8, 2006 4:07:10 AM

Well without a little OC, the 3800+ ownz. But if you do a liitle warenty voiding it's close and for the price the 920 is a winner. Here is a overclocked 820 vs. 4400+.
http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/pentiumd_vs_at...

You could get a 805 and a Asus P5P800SE and use your memory, but need a AGP card. The P5P800SE is good for all current Intel dual cores.
April 8, 2006 5:06:36 AM

Quote:
You could get a 805 and a Asus P5P800SE and use your memory, but need a AGP card. The P5P800SE is good for all current Intel dual cores.


Thanks for pointing that out, I tought that Socket T boards using DDR were discontinued for a while, that also explain the low retail price for the P5P800.

Then again, Asus boards (from personal experiences) tend to have poor voltage regulation and problems with on-board devices (USB, LPT and audio ports crapping out on a high FSB) which tend to ruin their overclocking potential.

I'm curious to know how that particular board copes with overclocking, specifically how memory ratios (unless Über RAM is involved) are handled...
April 8, 2006 2:32:49 PM

It has ratios for 266, 333, 400, 500, and 533mhz DDR. It has at three phase VRM and will droop a very high loads. 4ghz out of 9xx chips, and like 3.8ghz out of a 8xx chip is about all it will get with out a droop-mod. It's a prooven design taken form the P4P800. It dosen't support a 1067mhz FSB of the EE's and Conroe.
April 8, 2006 8:25:06 PM

I have to agree with SidVicious, I personally own a 165 dual-core and i have it currently clocked to 2.93ghz with no heat problems, with a thermaltake big typhoon.
April 8, 2006 8:59:23 PM

can i buy a conroe today, if not forget it.
April 8, 2006 9:35:04 PM

I have to agree with SidVicious, I personally own a 165 dual-core and i have it currently clocked to 2.93ghz with no heat problems, with a thermaltake big typhoon.
April 9, 2006 1:13:39 AM

Quote:
can i buy a conroe today, if not forget it.

I'm not saying buy a Conroe, I only trying to help. Upgrading is a good thing to think about when your buying a new rig. I'm sorry.

939 is slated for EOL. Get a 3800+ or opti 165 and you will be happy. But Intel has better bang for the buck with 805, 820 or 920. With a good mobo and good HSF they can out perform a 3800+ or 165. A 920 will do 4.5ghz. In games thats like a X2 at 3.0ghz. In encoding it's even faster.
April 9, 2006 1:33:59 AM

Quote:
... With a good mobo and good HSF.....A 920 will do 4.5ghz...


Did I not say that? A XP90 or Freezer pro should do. It also has to do with luck of the draw.
April 9, 2006 1:37:08 AM

Quote:
A 920 will do 4.5ghz.

Be very careful how you put that.
Not everyone knows it needs a 120mm-class HSF to even achieve 4.4Ghz with luck and the right RAM.

And 2.6GHz on air is easely achievable with an '06 X2, some folks at XtremeSystems are reporting ~3GHz OC's on ~1.4V, putting my LDBHE 0543 to shame.

Unlike P4's, A64's don't take a performance hit when running RAM at a ratio, low latency DDR is usually cheaper and have more overclocking headroom than DDR2 does.
April 9, 2006 1:40:56 AM

Quote:
A 920 will do 4.5ghz.

Be very careful how you put that.
Not everyone knows it needs a 120mm-class HSF to even achieve 4.4Ghz with luck and the right RAM.

And 2.6GHz on air is easely achievable with an '06 X2, some folks at XtremeSystems are reporting ~3GHz OC's on ~1.4V, putting my LDBHE 0543 to shame.

Unlike P4's, A64's don't take a performance hit when running RAM at a ratio, low latency DDR is usually cheaper and have more overclocking headroom than DDR2 does.

So you are saying they are they same overclocked to overclocked(by a expert OCer.) 4.5 to 3.0 Intel to AMD.

But the Pentiums D costs less. <--My point.

Not very many X2's do 3.0. certainly not on air.
April 9, 2006 1:57:47 AM

Quote:

A Freezer64 Pro will, XP-90(C) or 9500 won't.
It specificly applies to 120mm-class.


At my favorite forum(EOCF) people have used both XP90 and 120 and seen little difference, and showed the Freezer pro is about equal to the XP90. My Freezer 64 Pro is good to about 1.6v on my 3200+.

[/OFF_TOPIC!]
April 9, 2006 2:00:21 AM

Quote:
So you are saying they are they same overclocked to overclocked(by a expert OCer.) 4.5 to 3.0 Intel to AMD.


No, since 4.5GHz out of a P4 D is likely to require a Vdrop mod on a P5P800 as you mentionned it yourself earlier :

Quote:
4ghz out of 9xx chips, and like 3.8ghz out of a 8xx chip is about all it will get with out a droop-mod.


That's far from your 4.5GHz figure...

Quote:
But the Pentiums D costs less.


They may cost less alone but need to be paired up with expensive low latency DDR2, a matched motherboard (preferably an high-end overclocking friendly one) and a solid cooling system to cope with the bloated thermal specs of an overclocked P4.

Although one could skimp on the memory and go for run-off-the-mill DDR2, the CPU/Mem ratio will yield some insanely high latencies.
April 9, 2006 2:04:45 AM

I said "good mother board" (P5WD2)not "okay mother board". Read please.
Quote:

It has ratios for 266, 333, 400, 500, and 533mhz DDR. It has at three phase VRM and will droop a very high loads. 4ghz out of 9xx chips, and like 3.8ghz out of a 8xx chip is about all it will get with out a droop-mod. It's a prooven design taken form the P4P800. It dosen't support a 1067mhz FSB of the EE's and Conroe.
r
April 9, 2006 2:11:48 AM

Quote:
I said "good mother board" not "okay mother board". Read please.


Case in point, DeathWolf already has a 939 mobo, a CNPS7000-Cu, DDR memory and just enough money to afford a 3800+ or 165 Optie.

Considering the hardware he got and his budget, I'm curious to know how he could fit a "good mother board" (as you put it), OC friendly DDR2 (enough to achieve the 4.5GHz figure that you threw around) and a 920D CPU ?

Seriously...
April 9, 2006 2:26:59 AM

Probably not.

So a P5P800se $82 plus a 920 $240 is $322 and will oc.

Opti 165 is $325, and he did not OC his 3200+ on his current mobo.

Three bucks cheaper to go Intel, IF he has a AGP card. What mobo is it?
April 9, 2006 4:04:07 AM

Quote:
So a P5P800se $82 plus a 920 $240 is $322 and will oc.

Opti 165 is $325, and he did not OC his 3200+ on his current mobo.

Three bucks cheaper to go Intel


That's why my initial suggestion was to go for a X2 3800+ (295$), the 165 Optie being a close second.

The 3$ difference between the P5P800 & 920 vs the Optie 165 is'nt worth the time it will take to rip his current mobo out and reinstall his OS, especially when you consider that installing a new CPU is a 10 minutes job.
April 9, 2006 4:39:30 AM

Well I don't know about him, and it seems we scared him off, but I like doing that. I'd build both if I could. I have four rigs now folding. :D 

He didn't overclock the 3200+, the mobo might be a POS.
April 9, 2006 5:08:44 AM

Quote:
Well I don't know about him, and it seems we scared him off, but I like doing that.


I don't think that we scared him off, that's a good debate we had going on.

There are a lot of n00bs that I would really like to scare off, (obviously, DeathWolf is'nt one of them), it really irks me to read the steaming pile that some of them have been spewing lately, 3 weeks and 600+ posts, give me a break !

Quote:
I'd build both if I could. I have four rigs now folding. :D 


QFT !

Quote:
He didn't overclock the 3200+, the mobo might be a POS.


Then again, I was in the exact same situation back in '01, Duron Morgan, cheap PC-2700 and a crappy A7V333 Rev 1, willingness to learn is the first step and can lead to great things.
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