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How big improvement do x800GTO(256) get over gf 6800(128)?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 8, 2006 4:55:45 PM

My computer has this geriatric specs:

Mobo: Soltek SL 85DRV4-C
CPU: P4(533fsb) 2,8Ghz
Memory: 768Mb ddr2100(one slot free)
HD: S Barracuda 7200.7 200Gb(8Mb cache)
GPU: Gigabyte Geforce 6800(128) AGP Silent pipe(no fan)
This specs resulted in modest 3100p in 3dmark05 :( 

I recently bought(ordered) a Powercolor X800GTO(256)AGP. Because my cpu is weak a better agp-card would be overkill due to the bottleneck effect. Both 6800 and x800GTO have 12 pipelines and 256bit technique BUT x800GTO have 475Mhz core(Gf 6800 have 325Mhz). Memory freq is 900Mhz for radeon and only 700Mhz for Geforce. And the total memory is the double of Geforce. On top of that the Powercolorcard have GDDR3 memory and Geforce DDR. Now the question. Does this figures(differences) mean that there will be a considerable improvement?

I forgot to mention that a big reason for buying the Radeoncard was that the Silent pipe solution made it almost impossible to run NFS Most Wanted more than 15 minutes before the card went over 90 degrees C.
April 8, 2006 5:26:28 PM

I Say Dont Waste Your Money On That Radeon Card , Go Get A Arctic Accelero X1 Or NVSilencer 5 Rev 3 , And Your Card`s Temp Will Go Down To 50 , & Spend Your Money For Changing Your Memory , Because Your 3DMark Score Is Too Low For A 6800Card , ( I Had A Leadtek 6800 128 Mb AGP Beforce This & I Got About 3800 Point In 3DMark 2005 )
I Dont Think There Is Much ( Or Any ) Differenc Between 6800 128 & X800GTO ... This Upgrade Is Waste Of Cash ... :evil: 
April 8, 2006 6:16:40 PM

Thanks for the answer and suggestion but after I looked around internet I am not sure that I totally agree with you. Gf 6800 is quite better in opengl games like Quake4, Doom3 and riddick but I play CS Source a lot and that game is more radeonfriendly and I have tested HL2 Lost coast demo that was virtually unplayable on Gf 6800 on low settings at 800x600 resolution. If I can manage to play it smoothly on medium resolution at 800x600 then I will be happy.

PS I dont mean that I want to replay the demo HL Lost coast, I mean I ant to play HL Aftermath on medium 800x600 which I cannot with Gf 6800
Related resources
April 8, 2006 6:38:57 PM

There Must Be Something Wrong With Your System , Because I Had My 6800128Mb For About A Year , I Played Half-Life 2 In 1024x768 Max & 4xAA With No Problem ... Anyone Knows That Any GeForce 6 Or 7 & ATI X800 & Above Can Play Half-Life 2 At Least in 1024x768+4xAA@Max Settings , My Suggestion Is Go Get An Arctic Accelero X1 GPU Cooling & Upgrade Your Memory To 1Gb & Then You Will Be Happy ... Your CPU Is Fine , Your 3DMark Score Shows That Something Is Wrong With That 680 Card !! :evil: 
April 8, 2006 8:20:00 PM

I think you´re right that something is wrong with my gf 6800 but I hardly think that an arctic cooling would do much difference except that I will be able to play longer. The memory upgrade is another issue.

I bought an used memorymodule(512Mb) but I got a bluescreen so I bought a new one(still 512Mb) but I still got a bluescreen(after about 5 minutes) I think I have to formate my hard drive to get those memorymodules working.

I hope that teh silent pipe system is easy to uinstall :roll:
Peace
April 8, 2006 9:03:58 PM

It really does sound like you are having ram problems not videocard problems. If you go check out the vga charts you'll see that blowing 200 bucks on a x800gto will only gain you about 1500 points and not too many frames. Like PX said get some good ram at LEAST 1gig and get rid of that bullshit passive cooling. Overclock your card and get a little more life out of it.

Oh and as to the BSofD check your bios settings.
April 9, 2006 7:41:21 PM

I Think You Should Get 1 Gb Of High Quality Memory Insted Of Buying A New VGA , & Like All Mighty Prozac26 Said , This Is Not An Upgrade !! You Are Wasting Your Cash Boy :evil: 
April 9, 2006 11:01:17 PM

I don't think that 90C is very good. You could try just rigging up a fan to cool your card.

I think the biggest thing that is holding you back is your memory. Getting some DDR333 or DDR400 memory would help you out. With your current settup you can't be running dual channel and you only have DDR266. Your theoretical memory bandwidth is only 2100 MB/s. If you switched to dual channel DDR333 (PC2700) you would theoretically have 5400 MB/s. If you get DDR400 you could overclock your system with matched memory speed.

I get about 5500 in 3D-05 with:
P4 2.8C (800fsb) @ 3.64GHz
1GB dual Channel DDR400 at DDR416
Sapphire X800GTO unlocked to 16 pipes @ 438core/1056mem.
April 10, 2006 9:19:15 AM

You Are 100% Right :twisted: , But It Seems That funnyvlad Like To Waste His $$$ ...
April 10, 2006 10:26:51 AM

Quote:
lol, I'm losing space in my sig Laughing


That sounds familiar. I wanted to put another P4 joke from a very old thread in there, but it didn't fit.
April 10, 2006 11:06:59 AM

he's running a (4x)133mhz fsb pentium4 northwood A for christ's sake.. of course his 6800 is already cpu/mem-bandwith limited!!!

a 7800gs would probably give no improvement unless it's gfx only load.

and I'd be surprised if that motherboard is even capable of dual channel usage.

the threadstarter should move on to a new system (nothing less then A64 or core duo platform).

I hope next time someone of the commoners could point him out immediately to the more then obvious bottlenecks!!!
April 10, 2006 11:24:27 AM

Quote:
My computer has this geriatric specs:

Mobo: Soltek SL 85DRV4-C
CPU: P4(533fsb) 2,8Ghz
Memory: 768Mb ddr2100(one slot free)
HD: S Barracuda 7200.7 200Gb(8Mb cache)
GPU: Gigabyte Geforce 6800(128) AGP Silent pipe(no fan)
This specs resulted in modest 3100p in 3dmark05 :( 

I recently bought(ordered) a Powercolor X800GTO(256)AGP. Because my cpu is weak a better agp-card would be overkill due to the bottleneck effect. Both 6800 and x800GTO have 12 pipelines and 256bit technique BUT x800GTO have 475Mhz core(Gf 6800 have 325Mhz). Memory freq is 900Mhz for radeon and only 700Mhz for Geforce. And the total memory is the double of Geforce. On top of that the Powercolorcard have GDDR3 memory and Geforce DDR. Now the question. Does this figures(differences) mean that there will be a considerable improvement?

I forgot to mention that a big reason for buying the Radeoncard was that the Silent pipe solution made it almost impossible to run NFS Most Wanted more than 15 minutes before the card went over 90 degrees C.


That x800gto will be an improvement, but if I were you, I would go at least for the x850pro to make it worth the upgrade.
And maybe something's wrong with your system, Because I played HL2 1280 2xAA 4AF and CS:S 1280 4XAA 8xAF with no problems in a 6600gt.
April 10, 2006 11:35:34 AM

And I don´t believe your cpu bottlenecks you as much as you think.
April 10, 2006 11:48:23 AM

indeed.....well said...there is no difference between 6800 and x800gto except the fact that the later is 256Mb....same games will benefit from that......same run better on nvidia same on ati..that`s the beauty of it....

it not much of un upgrade ...you better find a good cooler for your 6800......pasive cooler for these cards are a huge mistake indeed..they consume a lot of power........

i must say that i have the same opinion ... there must be samething wrong with your sistem........6800 should run hl2 or other game at at least 1024x768 high settings....your cpu and sistem will not bottleneck you card except for the memory .......

on x800gto gecube/athlon64 3000+/512 ram pc3200 i`ve played hl2 at 1024x768 aa4x all settings high at at least 60 fps..

i think is better if you can find a good cooler and also you can try to supliment your RAM to at least 1Gig
April 10, 2006 12:02:26 PM

Quote:
6800 should run hl2 or other game at at least 1024x768 high settings....your cpu and sistem will not bottleneck you card except for the memory

Yes , That Is Exactly What He Should Do ... A New & Good VGA Cooler , Upgrading Memory & Have Fun ... :twisted:
April 10, 2006 12:09:51 PM

my worst memory about heat pipe was with same 6600..if i recall .....most wanted run ok...setting AA to 4x still worked ok..but after few minutes died.....blue screen..bla bla dead ........

and then i had the brilliant ideea to touch the cooler....i must have screamed of pain `couse i think it had 74714682478 degrees.....

pasive coolers for these kind of cards are a bad ideea :D 
April 10, 2006 4:00:10 PM

This is a reply to basically all of you. Wasting my money? Maybe but I can afford it and ´cause I´ve never changed mobo I will propably buy a completely new computer based on AMD:s M2 socket. I plan to do that in march ocr april 2007.

By the way my mobo is quite bad because ddr 266 is the maximum so I if I bought 7800GS it would hardly be an improvement(as one of you wrote). I thought about x850pro but those are still expensive here in Sweden, like 300$. Generally every graphics card is about 20-25% more expensive here than it is in U.S. The top-notch card are often more than 30% expensive than in US.

I am planning to use the x800GTO for about 11 months till I buy a completely new rig. And besides, more than 60% of the time I spend on games is on CS Source which beter benefit from a Radeon card.
April 10, 2006 4:04:46 PM

A quick question?

What is better of these two alternatives when playing for example FEAR?

1) 768Mb DDR3200
2) 1024Mb DDR2100

I would guess the later one



I have found out why I only got about 3060-3090 in 3dmark05
THose two articles says that by mistake Gigabyte shipped the card with only 8 instead of 12 pipelines. To get those 4 extra pipelines I need to reflash my bios. The big question is how can I do that. More pathetic is that I have used this passive cooling card for 10 months without noticing that it was weaker than it should be. I always thought my cpu was limiting it but when I upgraded my cpu from 2,4 to 2,8 I couldnt see any difference except it was even 30-40 3dmark points weaker!!!

article 1 http://www.cooltechzone.com/index.php?option=content&ta...

article 2 http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=719
April 10, 2006 4:56:56 PM

Quote:
By the way my mobo is quite bad because ddr 266 is the maximum

That`s Foolish , Cause You Don`t Act Sweet !! There Isn`t Much Difference Between DDR400 & DDR266 , You WILL GET a Better Performance If You Upgrade To 1Gb DDr 266 & Buy A VERY GOOD GRAPHIC CARD COOLER ... :twisted: I Still Say You Are Wasting You ****ing Money Man :evil: 
April 10, 2006 7:14:35 PM

Quote:
By the way my mobo is quite bad because ddr 266 is the maximum

That`s Foolish , Cause You Don`t Act Sweet !! There Isn`t Much Difference Between DDR400 & DDR266 , You WILL GET a Better Performance If You Upgrade To 1Gb DDr 266 & Buy A VERY GOOD GRAPHIC CARD COOLER ... :twisted: I Still Say You Are Wasting You ****ing Money Man :evil: 

You are very hot headed (pardon the pun). If he wants to spend his money that way, that's fine with me. I don't like threads where people want other people to tell them how to spend THEIR OWN money.
April 10, 2006 8:01:27 PM

You may not need to reflash your bios to unlock the pipes. I don't have a 6800 but I have heard that you can use Rivatuner to do it. You might find this link useful: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&t...

If Rivatuner can't help you here is a guide to flashing the bios on a video card: http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcar...

If you can unlock the 6800's pipes and keep it reasonably cool I, personally would not bother spending the money on changing to an X800GTO because it wouldn't be worth the extra money. If you can't unlock it, the X800GTO might be worth it.

I have an AGP Sapphire X800GTO unlocked to 16 pipes (X800XL specs). Mine is clocked a little different than the one you are looking at.
April 10, 2006 9:25:57 PM

thanks for the tip. I will see what I am going to do. But if my gf 6800 is stuck on low 3100 3dmark05 then the x800gto will be an improvement(casue otherwise I am stuck with a "6800LE"). I know that I could bought a 60$ cooler or something but I am not very handy person and I am afraid of overclocking because if I mess up then the warranty is gone(talk about moneywaste).

Another question that I cannot find an answer too. The gf 6800 that I have now has only ddr-memory on the chip instead of the more modern gddr3-memory. Is there a significate difference between those two?

PS - I have already ordered the GTO-card. Stupid as I am I did that BEFORE I started this topic. But I still havent got the card and I can sell it on a swedish form of ebay if I want and if I put the 6800 together. I will loose a couple of bucks but it doesnt matter. People learn from their mistakes and I will be more patient in the future before buying computerstuff. You have to admit that it´s a jungle of different letters after the gpu-models? You have to be a nerd to know excactly the difference between LE,SE,PRO,XL,XT,XTX,ULTRA,GT,GS,GTO etc...but I like to be a nerd :p  a bit :wink:
April 10, 2006 9:47:16 PM

As long as you have already ordered the X800, you might just want to use it and sell the 6800 instead. It kind of depends on whether or not you want to try to unlock the 6800. The X800GTO has prospects for overclocking and unlocking but to unlock them you have to flash the bios. There is no RivaTuner option for ATI cards.
April 11, 2006 7:10:55 AM

there is a huge difference between ddr and ddr3 ..as a matter of fact this makes the difference (beside other things) between a shiety card and a high end one............

i agree with you..in most countries...except us...the cards the high end cards are very expensive.....in my country you can find for example x850pro at same 300 dolars plus taxes.........


as for the memory amount (sistem RAM) you better have as much as posible ...over 1024gig for modern sistems and games......i`ll give you one example......i`ve played call of duty 2 with a modern card everything went perfectly..the game was perfect...quick loading of the scenes (arround the corners)....that was with 1024gig...but when i restarted with 512 the same sistem the same card etc...the game was allmost imposible to play....so as much ram as posible my friend

i currently play battlefield 2 all details to the max AA4x 1280x1024...the game works perfectly (arround 60 fps) with 1024RAM.....the game has a requirement of 2gig ..so it`s to the limit....it takes arround 10 seconds ..after the game is loaded....for the hdd to stop loading and the the game works smooth.....i recon is imposible to play hat game with less memory amount...and that`s only the RAM....the video card must be strong.....otherwise....... :?
April 11, 2006 7:18:29 AM

by the way my friend ......how`s the weather in Sweden.......in my s**** country is raining now....... :D 
April 11, 2006 11:11:12 AM

The weather is quite ok here right now but it have been too cold and too much snow till late march.

Memory is important and I would have upgraded my memory a couple of months ago but everytime I tried to do that I got a bluescreen. I think I have to reinstall the whole computer cause the DIMMlaces are fucked up(the cannot overwrite a new module or something).

I reckon when I changed a graphics card on my brothers computer from radeon 9600xt (128) to x850xt. I thought this would be a major improvement even if he had a shitty amd xp2600+ (thoroughbred). When we tried Quake 4 he had worse result than I got from my weak gf 6800( I had a similar cpu then). I suspected that his 512Mb ram was the reason but I couldnt think that 768Mb could do that difference as I had/still have. We put an extra 512Mb in his computer and there was a remarkable difference. Even if he did get an slight improvement over my rig it was totally playable at high 1024x768(radeoncard are weak on opengl).
April 11, 2006 11:48:32 AM

ihmm strange indeed ..... well nvidia are well known for their opengl capabilities indeed but not to worry my friend the difference is extremely small...remember when nvidia ruled in doom3 .....x850xt pl came and blasted the 6800 ultra........

my personal s*** blows in quake 4 at 1280x1024 full details ..and also i get 60 fps in doom 3 at 1024x768 even in ultra quality..........

not to worry my friend video cards like this are very strong........it`s the rest of the sistem you have to worry about......
i must admit i did not tested this games .. as i`ve stated above...on 512 ram and even worse (except for cod 2....tested on same x800gto which run perfectly on 1gig ram and allmost notplayable on 512 ram)......i reckon the sistem will run very slow.....my personal opinion is that you must have at least 1gig ram ...... in order to run in proper condition these cards.......also ..hdd cpu and a good psu
April 11, 2006 11:56:39 AM

Quote:
by the way my friend ......how`s the weather in Sweden.......in my s**** country is raining now....... :D 

Where's your s**** country? Is it next to mine? :) 
April 11, 2006 12:19:22 PM

what....it`s raining now 8O .....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh............here cames the sun
April 12, 2006 4:25:03 AM

Funnyvlad, I'll warn you once more, I've seen and dealt with this problem in the past already. the other guys are extremely ignorant of your problem!

one !d1ot even compared running a A64 to your system.. well ok let me try to explain to you what your bottlenecks are:

performance under games may indeed be limited to graphics cards, but CPU & bandwith do influence it a lot.

you are running:

SOLTEK SL-85DRV4-C P4X266E SOCKET 478, 5PCI, AGP4X, 533MHZ 3DDR DIMM, AUDIO, ATX, RETAIL BOX
Manufacturer: SOLTEK
Mfg. Part No: SL-85DRV4-C


bad things:
-max 133Mhz fsb for 266MHz DDR speeds instead of 400MHz DDR!

-single channel only instead of dual channel ram operation!

-the 2.8Ghz cpu would be decent if it was a 200mhz fsb cpu, but it runs at celeron fsb speeds which is NOT performance giving at 133x21multi!

-last not least it's VIa's P4X266e chipset... not quite known for it's performance like the i865/i875 Intel chipsets+mem controller...

and some smartass tries to compare this to a winchester3000+ which runs in dual channel, has 400mhz fsb and even an integrated memory controller !



you're basically(!) going to run a x850xt on a celeron with 256kb extra L2 cache and a severely limited motherboard with also slow singlechannel ram.

I say it again, there will hardly be any improvement even if you run a 7800gs agp on it, your low frame dips will still go to2-3 fps and average will also be for 98% the same as under a 6800NU. only the highs may go higher in low activity scenes in your games.

but hey are you going to admire the scenery from a hilltop in farcry or blasting your way in a room full of baddies? that last scenario will NOT improve if you keep running that ram at those speeds and in single channel, let alone less then 1 gigabyte f*#$%@# too

links:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2004.html?modelx=33&m...
and keep in mind this cpu here has dual channel ram, running quite possibly at 333mhzDDR AND has a better motherboard.

and don't forget that's the difference with the SAME GFX card...

ugh funnyvlad, please do not waste money on a faster gfxcard unlike the others say, there WILL be next to NO improvement on your 4year old system.

funnyvlad, save the money and upgrade the memory, cpu, motherboard and gfx to get a decent to good gaming experience (go either conroe or A64).

my 6600gt scores ~3500 in 3dmark2k5 and thats running a barton.
April 12, 2006 10:12:05 AM

Thanks for that comprehensive answer. I know that I should have changed motherboard at least once since I bought the computer(november 2002). But when I bought it I had 256Mb ram and Gf 4 mx440. Since then I have upraded the amount of memory, changed videocard and upgraded the cpu from 2,4 to 2,8.

I know that those upgrades are small(especially the cpu) The amd FX57 is also running on 2,8Ghz but even a newbie as I can imagine that that cpu is faaaar better than mine not only because the price. The reason that I havent changed mobo is twofold. I am afraid that it is too complicated(not the descrewing, screwing part) cause there is a large amount of possible connections you can make and if you dont do it right then you can easily leave a whole weekend with headache and panic. The second reason is that when I change mobo I have to change cpu, memory(cause I do not want to stuck with ddr266 do I?, propably netaggregate(mine is only 350W) and most propably the graphic card. The fact that my mobo only supports agpx4 is not an issue cause the difference between agp8 and agp4 is so small in reality and there is basically no difference between agp8 and pci-e even though the later are 4 times faster in theory over agp4. In three years there would be a major difference but then I will run a computer on a more flexible system.

As I said earlier I plan to buy a completely new system(early 2007) and believe me I will look for the topnotch mobo so I dont have to upgrade it so fast. The funny thing about mobo is the small price difference between budget and "luxury". A budgetmobo is avaiable for $70-90 in Sweden and the more luxurious one for $200-270. Compare the span between the budget videocard and luxuryvideocard. Its more like between $70 to $700 and if you like the best(SLI, crossfire) then the graphics alone can land on whopping $1400(not to mention that those who put that amount on graphics propably put $1000 on amd fx60. The conclusion is that putting an extra of $130 on a good motherboard is a good investment and that motherboard should be more flexible for cpu-upgrade as well. I am planning tio buy a AMD2 mobo that support ddr2-800 memory and amd fx 62 cpu at least.
April 12, 2006 12:01:20 PM

I just installed the x800GTO with the bundled drivers. It may be old and I will check up newer drivers later. STILL I got a considerable improvement in 3dmark05 even though it is weaker than it could be but cause my system is weak I am satisfied. I got almost 4200p in 3dmark05 which is 35% better than I got with gf6800(3080p). In actual gameplay maybe it is lika 10-20% better which is OK. I am not a hardcore gamer as you must have guessed but I still want to enjoy the game when I am playing which means at least 800x600 high quality :)  wiyhout lagg.
April 12, 2006 12:09:32 PM

download the latest drivers......new games require it
enjoy the game
!