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6800GS vs X800GTO (AGP versions): The final word

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 11, 2006 4:03:50 PM

I realize the Short List Video Card thread lists this as a tie in the $150-200 segment for AGP cards. However, it appears that the X800GTO is the better card on paper.

Specs:

X800GTO AGP
Clock Speed: 400Mhz
Memory Effective Clock: 980Mhz
12 pixel shaders
6 vertex shaders
256-bit memory bus

6800GS AGP
Clock Speed: 350Mhz
Memory Effective Clock: 1000Mhz
12 pixel shaders
5 vertex shaders
256-bit memory bus

It seems that the higher clock speed and extra vertex shader of the X800GTO would give it a clear victory. I've heard that both are good overclockers so the differences would likely be similar even after both are overclocked. What is your call? Also, is it worth the upgrade from say a 6600GT or X800GT, which can still be sold on ebay for near $100. Remember, this is an AGP discussion.
April 11, 2006 4:41:21 PM

If you have a 6600GT AGP and want a significant upgrade for your graphics, you should consider moving up to PCI-Express.
April 11, 2006 5:22:16 PM

True, PCI-Express has more options at lower price points, but this move entails processor, motherboard, video card, and possibly PSU upgrades. That quickly adds up, where a simple $150-200 will last another 1-2 years, at which point better technology will be available at lower prices, making the move a more viable option.
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April 11, 2006 5:48:25 PM

The 6800 GS AGP might have a lower clockspeed, but specs don't tell the whole story. Architecture makes a difference, and both cards will win their share of benchmarks.

Add to that the AGP version of the 6800 GS has a chance of unlocking pipelines, and it can't be ignored. In real life terms, neither card outclasses the other in every aspect, so a tie is how I called it.
April 11, 2006 5:53:32 PM

The reason for my last intervention is that 150-200$ to move from a 6600GT to a 6800GS or equivalent is not a good value in my opinion. This won't make a 2-years difference, really. If you don't feel like doing a major upgrade on your computer, then I'd reccomend you stick with your 6600GT, save the 150$ for the next serious upgrade.
April 11, 2006 6:16:43 PM

After selling the 6600GT, the true cost of the upgrade is really only $70-90. This makes the decision a little harder. These two cards offer a significant increase in performance over 6600GTs with 4 additional pipes, 256-bit memory buses, and greater overclocking capabilities (and as Cleeve mentioned, the possibility of unlocking 4 more pipelines on the 6800gs).
April 11, 2006 6:28:57 PM

Quote:
The 6800 GS AGP might have a lower clockspeed, but specs don't tell the whole story. Architecture makes a difference, and both cards will win their share of benchmarks.

Add to that the AGP version of the 6800 GS has a chance of unlocking pipelines, and it can't be ignored. In real life terms, neither card outclasses the other in every aspect, so a tie is how I called it.


Cleeve, he might be able to also unlock the pipes on hte 800GTO. I ordered a X800GTO Sapphire AGP from Chiefvalue a month ago, and it is unlockable!

Havent done it yet. PM "Scougs" for more information!
April 11, 2006 6:30:47 PM

I was under the impression that only the X800GTO^2 were unlockable to 16 pipelines.
April 11, 2006 6:40:45 PM

That's what I thought as well. Apparently the X800GTO (RV430 core) can be unlocked to 16 pipelines as well with a bios flash.
April 11, 2006 7:18:38 PM

Where have you found info on this? I didn't know the R430 core was unlockable. I thought it was only the R480 core that was capable of 16 pipes. I'm apparently grossly misinformed.
April 11, 2006 8:56:52 PM

nevermind
April 11, 2006 9:06:49 PM

The R430 cards suck ass....I'm telling you. Even after one has been unlocked and overclocked, it performs worse then the regular R420 and R480 GTO's.

I've seriously done my homework :lol: 



April 11, 2006 9:12:31 PM

I also forgot to say that I would take a 6800GS any day of the week over an AGP GTO.....and I'm actually a fanATIc with an nVidia avatar :roll:
April 11, 2006 9:30:54 PM

single card wise, ati or nvidia is the way to go agp or pcie
a b U Graphics card
April 11, 2006 9:35:03 PM

But GW, At stock speeds, the 6800GS AGP is a wimp though. Just look in Digit-lifes AGP charts. The X800GTO would beat it more often than not, and sometimes by alot. But my vote is for neither of these 12-pipe cards seeing how Newegg has the X800XL for $189. IMO that's the AGP card to buy if a 7800GS is too much money.
April 11, 2006 9:37:14 PM

Quote:
single card wise, ati or nvidia is the way to go agp or pcie



LMAO...so, you're saying that if we're considering AGP or PCI Express (the two largest video card technologies. Let alone the only ones still supported) that we should go with ATI or Nvidia (the two largest video card makers)? That's new news to me. :lol: 
April 11, 2006 9:42:25 PM

Quote:
But GW, At stock speeds, the 6800GS AGP is a wimp though.

I will die the day I ever run a stock card though Paul :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
April 11, 2006 9:49:17 PM

LOL, Shrivel up and melt away huh. A 6800U was definately not for you seeing how lousy the cores OC.
April 11, 2006 9:51:23 PM

I agree
X800XL is a Very viable card and the one the GTO sets out to beat.(knowing that every bro that gets one's gonna try to juice the worth out of it anyways....)
Might as well get the real thing.
April 11, 2006 10:06:56 PM

Quote:
A 6800U was definately not for you seeing how lousy the cores OC.

When a card gets stubborn, I show it who's boss:wink:

April 11, 2006 10:11:05 PM

Quote:
I agree
X800XL is a Very viable card and the one the GTO sets out to beat

You mean the one the GTO2 set out to beat...

A twelve pipe GTO sucks in comparison.
April 11, 2006 10:24:53 PM

Dude....when I looked at that card, it made my giblets tingle 8O

Seriously, once my Asrock mobo dies(I order friday) I will never look at AGP cards again.(and I've said that before, and now look at me :roll: )
April 11, 2006 11:33:21 PM

Quote:
:roll: postcount


POST WHORE >:

actually im thinking about getting a new videocard sometime buuut i do <3 my 9800 Pro and its holding up well :p , and since im cheap and not going to upgrade to PCI-E till i get a new computer..mmm i think ill keep it for a while

however i thinks i need to order a new CPU Cooler...and NB Fan....damn Abit AI7 and your shitty NB fan >:....yep...this has nothing to do with the topic either...

post count :roll:
April 11, 2006 11:42:56 PM

Although I am not one to talk(barton3000+/nForce2/7800GS) I would recommend you not put any money into your system.
April 12, 2006 12:28:16 AM

Is the X1800GTO supposed to unlock to 16 pipelines? I haven't seen much literature on it yet. If it doesn't, it appears to be in the same class as the X800GTO and 6800GS in PCI-express.
April 12, 2006 12:56:59 AM

I see a Gecube X800XL for $179 + $5 shipping but no other AGP versions. The Gecube isn't even in stock. Am I missing something?
April 12, 2006 1:47:05 AM

X1800GT....uh-O
*GULP*
Th.....th......
thats....the.......ssssseventy-six hunnerd killer ttthhat there isss.........

(RAID!!) :arrow:
April 12, 2006 2:12:16 AM

Quote:
thats....the.......ssssseventy-six hunnerd killer

I dont care, I think any card with a 128bit memory bus should be destroyed...
April 12, 2006 2:22:03 AM

Quote:
thats....the.......ssssseventy-six hunnerd killer

I dont care, I think any card with a 128bit memory bus should be destroyed...

HOLY CHEEZBALLS...

we agree on something...
April 12, 2006 2:29:29 AM

Quote:
:roll: postcount


You bastard! You're just trying to stay ahead of me. :p 
April 12, 2006 2:54:47 AM

Quote:
thats....the.......ssssseventy-six hunnerd killer

I dont care, I think any card with a 128bit memory bus should be destroyed...

HOLY CHEEZBALLS...

we agree on something...
Finally :D 
April 12, 2006 3:01:43 AM

Quote:
:roll: postcount


You bastard! You're just trying to stay ahead of me. :p 
I honestly never know what my postcount is here, I just find it funny to write "postcount" every now and then to piss off my buddy Mad Mod Mike(aka ass-hat).

He cant ever retort one of my snide remark post's without bringing up my postcount, and I swear on the love of all things that postcount means nothing to me here.
April 12, 2006 4:04:30 AM

I don't have any other option than 6800GS v X800GTO. Just these two. Which one would you recommend?
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2006 11:28:35 AM

If you are not going to try and mod it, my vote goes to the X800GTO. To bad you couldn't have grabbed that X800XL though...much better for similar price.
April 12, 2006 5:13:36 PM

Quote:
If you are not going to try and mod it, my vote goes to the X800GTO. To bad you couldn't have grabbed that X800XL though...much better for similar price.


Thanks!
Another question: How much improvement will I get upgrading from ATI9600pro 256mb to X800GTO 256mb?
April 12, 2006 6:25:50 PM

Geez! People really exaggerate stuff. Believe it or not, there are now video cards with 64bit memory buses that out perform old gen 256bit memory bus cards (case in point ati 9600 vs. nvidia 7300gs). The x1600 ati cards are only 128bit and are not bad at all, and the 7600gt by nvidia will destory anything in it's price range. So, don't discount the card just because of the memory bus. Yeah, these cards would be even better with a 256bit memory bus, and if you want to take it further, ATI's new workstation card is 512bit memory bus with 1GB GDDR3. The 6800GS and x800gto2 are good because of their potential, not their stock speeds. AGP is basically dead, but if you really want to delay upgrading, consider the texture sizes newer games are likely to use. 256MB's of memory will because a texture issue most likely before the framerates of these cards is too poor. The x1600 in AGP is available with 512MB of memory for a decent price, and is an excellent card for 1024X768 res in HL2 or other ATI optimized games. But if you play much OpenGL (DOOM 3/Quake, etc) it might not be a good choice.
April 12, 2006 6:31:04 PM

though the GTO is a decent card, my problem with it is that it's shadermodel 2.0B, not SM3.0 like the nvidia 6&7 series and the ATI X1 series (which also have HDR+FSAA!!)

basically that's why the gto is a "crippled" card imo and between those two the 6800GS gets my vote (though I'd say go pci-e and get a X1900 gen card, best of all generations)


I'd say 6800gs.
April 12, 2006 7:39:38 PM

Quote:
though the GTO is a decent card, my problem with it is that it's shadermodel 2.0B, not SM3.0 like the nvidia 6&7 series and the ATI X1 series (which also have HDR+FSAA!!)

basically that's why the gto is a "crippled" card imo and between those two the 6800GS gets my vote (though I'd say go pci-e and get a X1900 gen card, best of all generations)


I'd say 6800gs.


While the 6800GS has Shader Model 3.0, it is too weak to utilize it in any fashion. If the settings of any game with Shader Model 3 were set at high, the 6800GS wouldn't handle it effectivly anyway. It's a useless bulletpoint.
April 12, 2006 7:44:31 PM

Quote:
Geez! People really exaggerate stuff. Believe it or not, there are now video cards with 64bit memory buses that out perform old gen 256bit memory bus cards (case in point ati 9600 vs. nvidia 7300gs).


The 9600's have a 128-bit bus, not a 256-bit bus. ATI's only 256-bit cards are 9700's, 9800's, X800s, X1800s, and X1900s.

I believe some 9800SEs had a 128-bit bus.

And I don't think the 64-bit 7x00 cards will really give it to a 128-bit 9600... do you have any benchmarks to support that?
April 12, 2006 8:14:12 PM

You're right. I had a 9600 and a 9700 pro at the same time. My mistake, but the benchmarks between the 9700 and 7300GS with still prove my point.
April 12, 2006 8:17:25 PM

I would be really surprised if a 7300 ever beats a 9700 PRO. Do you have any links to benches?
April 12, 2006 8:33:38 PM

I'll find them for you if you give me a chance. They were 3dmark 05 scores and very very close.
April 12, 2006 8:59:40 PM

That might explain it. the 7300 might get 'bungholiomarks' for being SM 3.0 compliant in 3dMark05, but in real life the 9700 PRO would kick it's ass I think.

I still have my old 9700 PRO on my secondary machine, it's a pretty decent card to this day.
April 12, 2006 9:07:54 PM

Quote:

While the 6800GS has Shader Model 3.0, it is too weak to utilize it in any fashion.

Do you even know what SM3.0 is?....I'm betting you dont. HDR is the only function that the 6800GS might struggle with, but it is still useable in games like Fart Cry.

Quote:

If the settings of any game with Shader Model 3 were set at high, the 6800GS wouldn't handle it effectivly anyway. It's a useless bulletpoint.


For fuccks sakes dude, try playing any PS3.0 game with your GTO on "high" settings, and your card will piss all over itself :roll:

At least the 6800GS has the ability, the card you have doesnt even meet the criterium of what we're talking about. :roll:
April 12, 2006 9:22:39 PM

Ok, I'm not having luck finding the article right now, I'm sure you're laughing at that, oh well. Anywho. I have used both graphics cards in a multitude of setups. In OpenGL the 7300GS smokes the 9700, in ATI optimized games, the 9700 smokes the 7300GS. So, in reality, you if for some reason you were looking at these two cards (doesn't seem likely this day in age) and couldn't decide, I'd recommend letting the game decide. The article I read with the benchmarks was discussing the fact that current tech with a 64bit memory bus had finally caught (and beat in some cases) 3 generation old tech with a 256bit memory bus. I think all the budget cards these days are underated. As much as I don't want to live with only 4 pipelines, playing City of Heroes, Stormreach, Morrowind, World of Warcraft, Doom3, etc, etc, is still plenty fun with then. Ehhem, at 1024X768...... without eye candy.
April 12, 2006 9:49:42 PM

Shabodah my man, I am taking no pleasure whatsoever in you having trouble finding the benches. I'm not out to get you or anything, just genuinely curious.

I was under the impression that the 9700 PRO was at least 1 and a half times better than any 64-bit card out there, and I would be very interested to see otherwise. I'll do some looking too, it's interesting to me, I haven't had the opportunity to play with the 7300 GS like you have.

I hear it's as good as the 128-bit 6200's so I'd really like to know where it stands in relation to the 9700 PRO.
I can't get my hands on every card, benches aren't perfect but they're all you have unless you've got every card in the world at your disposal.
April 12, 2006 11:37:28 PM

The 6200 really can't hold a candle to even the 7300gs. People put way too much emphasis on memory controllers. Just got done explaining the whole 754/939 bit to someone else, but as GPU's are concerned, it doesn't seem like having more than 64bit per 4 pixel pipelines is worth it. For example, the 7300gs is 64/4, 7600 is 128/12, 7900 is 256/24, but the ATI cards like the 1900xt 256/16 seem more efficient than the Nvidia one's. As dual channel yields little gains on a single core, it becomes more and more necessary with multi-core. I would imagine we'll be seeing quad channel memory controllers with quad core chips and that seems to be a huge issue for AMD and Intel to sort out properly. Anywho, back on subject, I build a lot of BUDGET computers, so I have worked with lots of things under $150. Despite this post, I wouldn't recommend a 7300GS till they hit the $50 pricepoint. It is basically 1/3 of a 7600gs when it comes down to it at more than half the price. Having gamed with all sorts of these budget/old cards, I would recommend people use ATI for HL2, regardless, untill you are in the 7600GS/GT range. Anywho, if you lived near by I'd let you borrow the 7300 and mess with it. I've played lots of games on low/medium at 1024/768 and not really had any issues with it. Newegg's got lots more reviews for people interested. Benches are hard to find because no one seems to care about the card (probably cause it's not up to price/performance.) PS- Mazda makes the best shifter/shift linkages!
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