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Microsoft . NET Framework and ATI Cards.... Drivers... Bad??

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 12, 2006 12:09:55 PM

I just bought a X1900XTX, and am kinda wishing i bought a 7900gtx instead.... only because of one reason...

Microsoft .NET Framework....

I can't believe that ATI made this the new defautl for download drivers.... THis is my first ATI card, and I went to go download the latest drivers, so I will be prepared when my video card arrives tomorrow.... well I was not expecting to have to download microsoft .net framework...

Can someone here please tell me this does not suck.... i have been reading about it on google, and it only looks like bad news.... someone want to shed some more light on this issue for me?

More about : microsoft net framework ati cards drivers bad

April 12, 2006 1:11:25 PM

My X1900XTX is my second ATI card, and I resisted installing .NET on my computer for my Radeon 9700 Pro for about a year because of the nasty stuff I'd heard, but after installing .NET I really can't say anything bad about it. It didn't break anything that I'm aware of and there are security updates for .NET.
April 12, 2006 1:43:05 PM

You only need the .NET Framework if you install the Catalyst Control Center. And yes, its a piece of shit. When you're installing the driver choose a custom installation and only select to install the driver itself. No problems then.

The .NET Framework itself isn't the problem though.
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April 12, 2006 2:13:38 PM

yes, do tell us... what makes it a POS?

I also have updated drivers religiously for a few years now (9700pro was my last ati card) and never hit ONE issue.

.net is not the devil (however much uncle billy looks like satan ;)  ) and it does not break anything.

You are right however that you do not need it for the drivers... only the control center, but I would reccomend installing it for the options you get with it.
April 12, 2006 2:55:26 PM

Why are you worried about the .Net framework? It's just a couple of .dlls that support the UI for the ATI control center.

Are you just as paranoid about downloading updates for your software or downloading Flash or Acrobat or Java?
April 12, 2006 3:04:54 PM

As for the ATI control center, it doesn't seem to have very much functionality, and therefore seems like it might be a waste of resources to have running. I have noticed that I occasionally get some strange behaviors when coming out of powersave. When my laptop comes out of hibernate I have about a 50-50 chance of getting an exception in the ATI sw. Not that it matters. On my desktop, I will occasionally have multiple little Catalyst icons in the systray after coming out of powersave, but mouseover makes them dissappear.

I've never seen a useful feature in the control panel so I don't know if it's worth installing.
April 12, 2006 3:24:52 PM

Quote:
You only need the .NET Framework if you install the Catalyst Control Center. And yes, its a piece of ****. When you're installing the driver choose a custom installation and only select to install the driver itself. No problems then.

The .NET Framework itself isn't the problem though.


Exactly. There is nothing wrong with .NET. However, the CCC is the biggest piece of bloatware I've seen in a long time, especially when you take into account what little it actually does. I would use the Omega drivers which still use the old ATI control panel.
April 12, 2006 3:34:57 PM

Quote:
ehm not wanting to point out the obvious but calling something a pos then not supplying reason's is a bit stupid. no one is going to believe you. can you be more specific. i have had no problems so that kinda refutes your argument.


It has many known issues. One example I've seen is the CLI.exe file failing that is the catalyst control center. Another I've had is trying to run dual monitors and having them constantly flickering with refresh issues. Uninstall the Catalyst Control Center and waalaa! it works. It is not a stable product nor needed so anytime I'm in a situation using an ATI card I never install it because of the many problems I've had with it across several different machines.
April 12, 2006 3:41:30 PM

hmm... strange indeed. never had that issue. could it be something else conflicting w/ ccc? have you tried disabling/shutting down other apps to see if it stops?

as for features: I like the built in oc tool, and use the effects tweaks for diff situations but admitedly that does not need .net and could have been implemented w/o it.

There is a lag on startup for ccc since the .net thing, but that is from .net and not the ccc directly. When started up it does take a touch more resources, but when just in the taskbar it takes no more... not a big deal to me
April 12, 2006 3:46:27 PM

yes, that could easily be from conflicting apps or overall os instability on your system. I have none of those issues, and have not since the first ccc w/ .net

have you tried to trace down where the issue is? like if a particular app is freaking out ccc? if it is something like that (which i suspect) then that app may be the problem and not cli...

I had an app for my energizer batt-backup that did that for a while, it also freaked out other apps and i killed it. That is why i say that it is not ccc or .net but the other app.
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2006 6:02:07 PM

Quote:

The .NET Framework itself isn't the problem though.


LOL! Yeah sure, that's why the move from 1.1 to the BETA 2.0 fixed all my problems, right?

Saying .NEt is not a problem is like saying Windows is not the reason you're getting BSODs or CTDs. It's a combination of both.

But like I said for me .NET 2.0 has solved my major problems, all except the lag that is associated with loading .NET with the driver package, and it's much faster than 1.1, and doesn't have the multiple instances of CLI like 1.1.

BTW, that delay also happens with the nV .NET drivers as well, and considering that Vista will require .NET drivers for all, it's just a way of easing you into your bleak future. And like oyu mention, it is an option, and with ATiTrayTools you don't have to miss out on the new features either (except some early AVIVO stuff).

Quote:
One example I've seen is the CLI.exe file failing that is the catalyst control center.


That usually happens because of a poor/corrupt .NET installation, reinstalling .NET followed by the drivers usually fixes that. Once again, is a corrupt .NEt ATi's fault?

Quote:
Another I've had is trying to run dual monitors and having them constantly flickering with refresh issues. Uninstall the Catalyst Control Center and waalaa! it works.


Have not seen that issue or heard it widely mentioned. But when doing multi-monitor you come to expect some tweaking to get it to work right, whether it's, ATi, nV or far better solutions like Matrox and UltraMon's software.

Quote:
It is not a stable product nor needed


IMO, no less stable than any other product/driver package. What it is however is a resource hog, and that's got alot to do with .NET too.
April 12, 2006 6:43:05 PM

With my Nvidia card I've never had an issue doing dual monitors. I've just plugged in the second monitor and extended my desktop to it. And once I uninstalled the control center, thats all I did with the ATI card and it worked fine.

I have two test systems at work with integrated ATI graphics, both have had issues with the Catalyst Control Panel on nothing more than fresh installs of XP with all the latest updates installed. Other systems I've used it on also had nothing running but Windows background tasks and stuff like Quicktime tray icon, Spybots tea timer, and Asus's System monitor(their temp monitor program).

Also, the only Blue Screens I've EVER gotten with XP have been due to other drivers. On my home system I got it because of an issue with Nvidia's drivers once. At work I get them because of driver issues with the sensors we make and thats the point of my job. And I've been using XP since before it was released.

You can use it if you want, but I'll stick with just using the driver.

Don't think I'm knocking ATI cause I have an Nvidia card because when I upgrade my system in the near future I'm going back to an x1900XT, hopefully Crossfire right away but if not then later.
April 12, 2006 6:57:06 PM

I never called the driver a POS. I was just asking for more insight to those who know.

Most of my questions have been answered already, and I thank you guys for your expertise. The problem I have been reading about is mostly due to memory hogging my the .net framework and slow startup times. There have also been some instability issues where windows will not start because of something with the CLI, or CCC.

If you do a google search there is a lot of debate over ATI impementing .net into their drivers. So much, that there is even several online petitions boycotting ATI.

I do not support those time of acts, and was merely trying to probe more information before my card arrives. Hearing from you guys that you have not had any problems is defintely reassuring. Thanks,
April 12, 2006 7:08:57 PM

They're not saying you did. They're saying I did. Because to me it is.

If you haven't had any problems fine. But I've dealt with it too much to ever install it again. ATI's drivers have always worked fine for me. But the control panel is a POS in my opinion. Never had an issue when it wasn't installed.

And machines I work with always get the latest updates and the .NET Framework 2.0 has been out since like December. Apps I have here at work use .NET and none of them have issues.

In case you're wondering what hardware I've had issues on its been DFI boards(S939), Asus boards(S939), and ATI boards(S939). Maybe its an issue with AMD64s, who knows. When I ran an ATI(9800 Pro) card it was when I had my old 2.6GHz P4C and didn't have any problems with the control center back then. Course back then they probably weren't using the .NET Framework either.
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2006 7:43:30 PM

Quote:

You can use it if you want, but I'll stick with just using the driver.


Works 'ok' for me, but I don't like the lag or the memory issues, but like I said, I can live with it. What I don't like is the addition of .NET and the inherent M$ issues it brings. While I haven't hade a single BSOD on my last two laptops, I do still get CTDs with many apps that work fine on other versions of windows (morrowind is fine on W98SE and Win2K, but crashes every 30-90mins in XP. And my computer's fairly clean, getting defragged, scanned, cleaned and removing extraneous processed on a regular basis. I'm one of the few who does a fresh install every few months just to reduce bloat (with updated driver DVD-RAM to make things easy).

I'm not saying CCC is great, personally I never used it or the CP much, most of the time I make my changes from the taskbar, AtiTrayTools is great for that with the CP user with just the drivers like you say, and CCC adds it for the rest.

And when it comes to multi-monitors, personally I prefer UltraMon and miss the support/features I got with Matrox, but really both the nV equipped laptop and 3 Ati systems I've used on/off for multi-mon haven't had any major trouble. Heck my R9000 ran fine right up until I sold it (which has since been replaced in that rig with an X1600Pro because my friend couldn't play oblivion).

Are there issues with HydraVision, sure, but like I said same with nView and same with the other two, IMO, better apps. The only problem I had with nView and the laptop was failure to spawn the second screen on first attempt. But that happens on of them. I found the TV ou support for dual mon a little better on my R9600P though, still haven't tried it on the MRX700 though.
April 12, 2006 8:22:47 PM

I'd just like to add that I have the .NET framework on all my home computers and work computer and have never had any problems with it. I can, however, tell you that I don't exactly know why it's needed.
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