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Fuel Planning Web Site

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Anonymous
July 4, 2005 5:36:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

What applications or web sites give a good overvue of fuel
planning for specific models of GA aircraft? I am interested in
understanding better the altitude that gives the best overall
fuel efficiency for a given distance travel, assuming winds aloft
are zero. Seeing a table or chart that summarizes some basic
generalizations would be helpful.

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com

More about : fuel planning web site

Anonymous
July 4, 2005 10:08:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Will <DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:

> What applications or web sites give a good overvue of fuel
> planning for specific models of GA aircraft? I am interested in
> understanding better the altitude that gives the best overall
> fuel efficiency for a given distance travel, assuming winds aloft
> are zero.

Jeppesen's FLightStar is an excellent application that comes with many
default aircraft profiles and does exactly what you ask. AOPA's Flight
Planner, a freebee to those who belong to AOPA, is a somewhat scaled back
version of this particular PC-based flight planner, but it still comes with
many of the fuel planning features.

FlightStar will take the aircraft's fuel efficiency and speed and (with or
without winds aloft) calculate the most efficient altitude based on time to
destination and total cost of flight. Sometimes the two altitudes don't
necessarily coincide.

Here is the link:

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_...


> Seeing a table or chart that summarizes some basic
> generalizations would be helpful.

The only tables I have seen are in the specific aircraft's pilot operating
handbook (POH).

--
Peter


















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Anonymous
July 4, 2005 10:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I have Flitestar 8.5 but honestly it feels pretty loose. It is
extremely strong on chart drawing tools and letting you change
the waypoints in your flight plan. But for fuel planning
frankly I'm pretty lost, and the documentation isn't helping me a
whole lot. Where can I see the actual fuel consumed in each leg
of the flight and keep track of fuel remaining? Probably this is
buried away on some report?

I was going to upgrade to release 9 of Flitemap IFR but then I
found out they discontinued FliteMap and have yet some other
product connected with Jeppview that does the moving map
functions. Rather than integrating the important activities of
Flight Planning, Moving Map, and enroute and approach charts
together into one product, it feels like Jeppesen is moving these
things further away from each other. You have to buy Flitestar
for flight planning, Jeppview for approach charts, and still some
other product for moving map. Frustrating.

What did you use to learn the key features of Flitestar?
Thanks for any help you can give in advance.

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kznmq96kss5s$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Jeppesen's FLightStar is an excellent application that comes
with many
> default aircraft profiles and does exactly what you ask.
AOPA's Flight
> Planner, a freebee to those who belong to AOPA, is a somewhat
scaled back
> version of this particular PC-based flight planner, but it
still comes with
> many of the fuel planning features.
>
> FlightStar will take the aircraft's fuel efficiency and speed
and (with or
> without winds aloft) calculate the most efficient altitude
based on time to
> destination and total cost of flight. Sometimes the two
altitudes don't
> necessarily coincide.
>
> Here is the link:
>
>
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_...
>
>
> > Seeing a table or chart that summarizes some basic
> > generalizations would be helpful.
>
> The only tables I have seen are in the specific aircraft's
pilot operating
> handbook (POH).
>
> --
> Peter
Related resources
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 2:47:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Will <DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:

> I have Flitestar 8.5 but honestly it feels pretty loose.

I cannot comment on 8.x as I came into FlightStar with version 9.0. It is
very strong from the fuel planning aspect.

<snip>
> But for fuel planning
> frankly I'm pretty lost, and the documentation isn't helping me a
> whole lot. Where can I see the actual fuel consumed in each leg
> of the flight and keep track of fuel remaining? Probably this is
> buried away on some report?

One of the strengths of the software is the detailed Nav Log report. In
version 9.x (again, I do not know about 8.x - it might be the same, it
might not), this report can seen by changing the view from "En Route
Charts" to "Reports." In 9.x, changing the view is accomplished by
clicking on one of four large tabs at the top of the main window. They are
very obviously placed.

After clicking the Reports tab, click the "Nav Log" button at the bottom of
the main window. The Navigation Log should appear in the main window.

In there you will find your route, broken down by waypoints, where there
are Fuel (used and remaining), Time (leg and total to that way point),
Distance (leg and total), and Ground speed columns. There are also a
couple of empty blocks per waypoint where you can write your estimate
arrival time based on last waypoint and actual arrival time. This will
give you your actual versus estimated fuel burn.

This report can also be printed from this view, or by going to
File > Print (name of route), which is the first print option listed.

> I was going to upgrade to release 9 of Flitemap IFR but then I
> found out they discontinued FliteMap and have yet some other
> product connected with Jeppview that does the moving map
> functions. Rather than integrating the important activities of
> Flight Planning, Moving Map, and enroute and approach charts
> together into one product, it feels like Jeppesen is moving these
> things further away from each other. You have to buy Flitestar
> for flight planning, Jeppview for approach charts, and still some
> other product for moving map. Frustrating.

I agree that Jeppesen is expensive and somewhat frustrating as a company,
given that there really is no major competitor outside of the US gov't
charting service, at least in the US.

> What did you use to learn the key features of Flitestar?

The school of "hard knocks." :)  I sat down and planned several routes,
then began using it for real.



--
Peter


















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Anonymous
July 5, 2005 2:47:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Sure enough, I have this, and thanks.

Now how do I change the altitude for the flight after I have
already created it, to test the impact on fuel consumption? Is
there any feature to automatically determine the optimium
altitude to minimize fuel consumption?

Is there any way to download winds aloft, and then have the plan
automatically determine the correct altitudes at each segment to
take advantage of the best winds? It would be awesome if you
could update against new winds aloft data while in flight and
have suggestions made for changes to the flight plan.

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com



"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kkfzj0al0bq.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> One of the strengths of the software is the detailed Nav Log
report. In
> version 9.x (again, I do not know about 8.x - it might be the
same, it
> might not), this report can seen by changing the view from "En
Route
> Charts" to "Reports." In 9.x, changing the view is
accomplished by
> clicking on one of four large tabs at the top of the main
window. They are
> very obviously placed.
>
> After clicking the Reports tab, click the "Nav Log" button at
the bottom of
> the main window. The Navigation Log should appear in the main
window.
>
> In there you will find your route, broken down by waypoints,
where there
> are Fuel (used and remaining), Time (leg and total to that way
point),
> Distance (leg and total), and Ground speed columns. There are
also a
> couple of empty blocks per waypoint where you can write your
estimate
> arrival time based on last waypoint and actual arrival time.
This will
> give you your actual versus estimated fuel burn.
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 2:57:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Will <DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:

> Now how do I change the altitude for the flight after I have
> already created it, to test the impact on fuel consumption? Is
> there any feature to automatically determine the optimium
> altitude to minimize fuel consumption?

In version 9.x, there is an "Optimize Altitudes" feature. Assuming your
aircraft profile is accurate, this feature will give you a no-wind optimal
altitude (taking into account time-to-climb and -descend as well as true
airspeed) and an imported winds aloft (from either keying in an estimate or
downloading forecasted winds aloft) best altitude, which takes into account
all no-wind information plus effects of winds and temperature at different
altitudes.

To access this feature, click: Preflight > Optimize Altitudes for {route}
off the main menu.

Once inside this window, you can see the optimal altitudes, as they are the
ones where either cost or gallons used are colored BLUE. Click on the
column of the altitude you desire and the software automatically uses that
altitude for all calculations, including within the NavLog. FlightStar
will even calculate TOC and BOD waypoints and fuel used based on whatever
altitude you chose.

Go back in that window to change to any altitude you want.

> Is there any way to download winds aloft, and then have the plan
> automatically determine the correct altitudes at each segment to
> take advantage of the best winds?

Based on my experience with FlightStar, the "Optimize Altitude" feature of
this software will only give you the best altitude over the entire route.
Thus, if you are crossing a cold front where the winds go from a strong
tailwind to a strong headwind, you will only see the best altitude that
gives you the best average groundspeed.

However, based on your excellent weather planning and knowing that you are
going to cross from a region of strong tailwinds to headwinds, you can set
different altitudes between each leg of your route in the following menu
choice:

Preflight > Route Calculator for {route}

Not exactly automated, but still it makes complex flight planning pretty
easy.

> It would be awesome if you
> could update against new winds aloft data while in flight and
> have suggestions made for changes to the flight plan.

I only use the software for preflight planning, so I do not know about
this.

IMO, calculating headwinds/tailwinds while flying (something that should be
done by any pilot flying out of the traffic pattern) makes it pretty easy
to pick different cruise altitudes, no software needed. :) 

FYI, I used FlightStar to plan my across-the-US flight in a Bonanza last
May 28th. It was accurate to within 5 gallons per leg across the entire US
(central NY all the way to Palm Springs, CA).

--
Peter
























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Anonymous
July 5, 2005 2:57:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Thanks for all of that advice. I learned a lot more about the
software from your short posts than I did from reading through
the Jeppesen manual.

Did you get a chance to checkout Big Biear Mountain while on the
trip to Palm Springs? Airport code is L35. Try flying in
there with MegaScenery Southern California. Really pretty area,
and it is surprising to find high altitude pine forests and lakes
sitting right next to desert in Palm Springs. Most of the
commercial flights to locations north of LA have a clear view of
this lake from the air, and it looks like a little oasis on top
of a mountain.

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1g64o7tmo14qj$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> FYI, I used FlightStar to plan my across-the-US flight in a
Bonanza last
> May 28th. It was accurate to within 5 gallons per leg across
the entire US
> (central NY all the way to Palm Springs, CA).
>
> --
> Peter
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 2:57:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

By the way, do you know about the Peter Dowson utility that will
export Flitestar flight plans to the FS2004 GPS? It really
works, although it a bit of a hassle. I always use it from a
separate computer and link to the default FS2004 flightplan
directory on the computer where FS2004 runs. Then you need to
manually load the flight plan from inside FS2004 when you plan an
IFR flight. I have not unfortunately found any way to load one
of these flight plans into the Reality Garmin GPS.

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com



"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1g64o7tmo14qj$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Will <DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:
> FYI, I used FlightStar to plan my across-the-US flight in a
Bonanza last
> May 28th. It was accurate to within 5 gallons per leg across
the entire US
> (central NY all the way to Palm Springs, CA).
>
> --
> Peter
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 5:59:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Will <DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:

> Did you get a chance to checkout Big Biear Mountain while on the
> trip to Palm Springs?

Not on this trip, but a couple of years ago I flew commercially to visit my
relatives in Palm Springs. While there for the two weeks, I got checked
out in one of The Palm Springs Flight School's C172SPs. One of the
checkout tasks was to fly up to Big Bear for a high altitude airport
checkout.

I then took my relatives up there the following week for lunch at that
airport's cafe.

As you probably have noticed, you cannot fly directly there from Palm
Springs airport due to the higher mountain peaks directly south of Big
Bear. Instead, you need to fly north, then turn west directly to the
airport, all while climbing from 400 ft MSL at PSP up to about 9,500 ft
MSL.

--
Peter
























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Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:09:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Will <DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:

> I have not unfortunately found any way to load one
> of these flight plans into the Reality Garmin GPS.

Yep, the Reality Garmin GNS430/530 is basically a "screen scraper" gauge
for the actual Garmin GPS simulator, which has to run in the background.
Just like the real GPS, the only way to enter a flight plan into this GPS
simulator is to tediously dial it in.

In one of the piloting newsgroups I read that the FAA actually purposely
limited flight plan data entry to only dialing it in with the GPS knob when
the FAA went about certifying IFR GPSs under that particular certification
standard.

This is because when dialing in the waypoint, the GPS will give you the
name, location, and distance of that waypoint before the waypoint is
entered into the flight plan, making it harder (but not impossible) to
enter an incorrect waypoint into the flight plan. It is possible that
a flight plan downloaded from a PC could have incorrect waypoints that
wouldn't be caught until that leg was actually the active leg. Not
something a pilot wants to find out while IMC in busy airspace.

If you think of it this way, it actually makes sense as to why the FAA did
this.

--
Peter
























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Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:09:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I can't help but point out (and I did point it out to Reality's
Jean-Luc), that Reality could very easily create a utility that
would take as input a flight plan, and then automate the task of
creating the flight plan by simply feeding keystrokes to the
Reality Garmin 530. Jean Luc thought it was a good idea (for
once :)  ) and said they would put it on a list for future
possible implementation.

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:144ylheqp539f.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Yep, the Reality Garmin GNS430/530 is basically a "screen
scraper" gauge
> for the actual Garmin GPS simulator, which has to run in the
background.
> Just like the real GPS, the only way to enter a flight plan
into this GPS
> simulator is to tediously dial it in.
>
> --
> Peter
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:47:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Will <DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:

> I can't help but point out (and I did point it out to Reality's
> Jean-Luc), that Reality could very easily create a utility that
> would take as input a flight plan, and then automate the task of
> creating the flight plan by simply feeding keystrokes to the
> Reality Garmin 530. Jean Luc thought it was a good idea (for
> once :)  ) and said they would put it on a list for future
> possible implementation.

Thinking something is an excellent idea and actually implementing that idea
can often be opposing goals. :) 

--
Peter
























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