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AMD fanboys on the defense.

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April 14, 2006 11:08:22 PM

It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!

More about : amd fanboys defense

April 14, 2006 11:12:48 PM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


Low self esteems, with a bit of testosterone.
April 14, 2006 11:15:30 PM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!
Who knows, I could never figure out why someone would defend something they aren't even a part of, unless of course they own shares, then I could understand.
Related resources
April 14, 2006 11:27:50 PM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


Low self esteems, with a bit of testosterone.

Word


Whatever that means.
April 14, 2006 11:29:19 PM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


Low self esteems, with a bit of testosterone.

Word


Whatever that means.

Word.
April 14, 2006 11:54:20 PM

Yup..........word.
April 15, 2006 12:24:09 AM

Quote:
Low self esteems, with a bit of testosterone.


LMAO, short, sweet and to the point!
April 15, 2006 12:24:12 AM

I can't make sense of it either... I think it is senseless :roll:
April 15, 2006 12:41:53 AM

sh!t, they found I got shares *goes to hide them in the bathroom*


(and btw, werent intel fanboys doing the same during the reing of the A64's? :p  )
April 15, 2006 12:42:30 AM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


You're right about fanaticism (although, if one cares to be honest with oneself, we're all a bit...) and, about the pretense discredibility some people are trying to put on Intel's products. It's a very complex matter (fanaticism) and I shall resume it to its lightest form: preference.
Apple fans followed a brand, a design, a performant platform and a way of life, computing-wise; Intel fans typically followed power (in GHz and even now), and the actual undisputable, pervasive and allmighty computing giant's steps. AMD fans are in a class of their own: they mostly praise GHz-per-performance-per power (heat)-per-price; and, AMD gave them that, for the last half-decade.
Now, the landscape is changing; we're still IN the transition... it's tough to have to step down the podium, even if it's for the silver medal.
At the end, I still believe it's not a matter of who wins, but a matter of scale: The big one should win in their league and so should the small one. AMD had the chance (twice in a lifetime? Who knows...) of detroning the hardcore, for a while... and what a blow it was! A Hammer one!
But, Intel maintained its faithful crowd of fans with NetBurst, right?

I, for one, admire computing technology and the blurred meanders of chip design. I admire all that's been done in the past, I admire the K8, NetBurst (surprise?!), Core & whatever it is to come. I only hope it's good & interesting.


Cheers!
April 15, 2006 12:49:45 AM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


If anyone is wondering...I try to avoid "fanboy" forums altogether. Main reason is that the folks in the forum are usually set in their way of thinking, and God Himself could not change their minds, so I figure there's no point in even trying.

Not sure why I'm speaking in this one--but just in case somebody who is willing to be wrong is reading this, wanted to let you know--that's why this is probably the only fanboy thread I ever post in. I'll watch for meaningful replies, but no more replies here.

See ya.
April 15, 2006 1:01:02 AM

yeah, you're right, it's pretty hard to change their minds. I'm just glad I'm not really biased one way or the other, I have a preference for Intel though, but I would have happily bought an AMD during the Netburst fiasco, no denying, it wasn't a great processor, but it was alright. And the 65nm is pretty good. :) 
April 15, 2006 2:21:19 AM

:trophy: Congrats, you will the award for the 1,000,000 time that was posted! :trophy:
April 15, 2006 3:07:35 AM

So, you think: it`s only about 5 fps not the 20% more than the fx-60?
April 15, 2006 3:13:33 AM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


You're right about fanaticism (although, if one cares to be honest with oneself, we're all a bit...) and, about the pretense discredibility some people are trying to put on Intel's products. It's a very complex matter (fanaticism) and I shall resume it to its lightest form: preference.
Apple fans followed a brand, a design, a performant platform and a way of life, computing-wise; Intel fans typically followed power (in GHz and even now), and the actual undisputable, pervasive and allmighty computing giant's steps. AMD fans are in a class of their own: they mostly praise GHz-per-performance-per power (heat)-per-price; and, AMD gave them that, for the last half-decade.
Now, the landscape is changing; we're still IN the transition... it's tough to have to step down the podium, even if it's for the silver medal.
At the end, I still believe it's not a matter of who wins, but a matter of scale: The big one should win in their league and so should the small one. AMD had the chance (twice in a lifetime? Who knows...) of detroning the hardcore, for a while... and what a blow it was! A Hammer one!
But, Intel maintained its faithful crowd of fans with NetBurst, right?

I, for one, admire computing technology and the blurred meanders of chip design. I admire all that's been done in the past, I admire the K8, NetBurst (surprise?!), Core & whatever it is to come. I only hope it's good & interesting.


Cheers!

I would argue that there seems to be a distinct difference between an AMD fanboy and an intel fanboy. It seems to me that most blog sites, forums, and for that matter tech sites are full of AMD (closet) fanboys that always seem to put a spin on news that quite frankly favors AMD. I would point out the recent news about AMD raising there product prices, well guess what that means........"AMD is raising prices because they can't keep up with demand." Now I'm not saying that AMD shouldn't raise prices....hell that's the american way, suppy and demand, but if intel was to raises prices then they are seen as a greedy company who want's to suck every last dime out of us.....oh and for that matter if they drop prices that is still seen as an evil scheme to lower poor little defenseless AMD's margins and take market share back....ahhhh how dare they do that. AMD on the other hand takes a 3 point share away from evil intel and everyone is happy.....Not to get off topic but this is kind of what like watching FOX news channel report the news......
April 15, 2006 3:30:44 AM

Here is a thought.
What if those you claim are Amd fanboys, are actually performance fanboys, who are trying to prevent Intel's chosen benchmarks from influencing the the buying public?
Personnally, I do believe that the Conroe will perform as advertized, in those hand picked benchmarks. Reality is, that the Amd chip did not perform as well in those benches, as I would expect an X2 4800 to do.
Conroe will be better than netburst. Will it be better than A64? I dont know, for sure, but I think not.
April 15, 2006 4:05:16 AM

Believe what you will about the numbers, but a preponderance of the evidence purports that Conroe is indeed faster in virtually every facet compared to A64's... but nevermind that for now... Most of us will have to wait out another couple of months to see for ourselves...
Time will tell...
April 15, 2006 4:27:33 AM

well, I was surprised too, but in the foreign countries the price of atlon fx-60 hits the 1400 usd against the 500 of conroe (i hope) and the resell value of intel chips if you need to, seems to me a very reasonable rebate in the high end processors.(I have the chance to oc an opteron 165 but as a noob in oc...the steppings etc) the amd prices are for true fans
April 15, 2006 4:53:38 AM

Quote:
but a preponderance of the evidence purports that Conroe is indeed faster in virtually every facet compared to A64's

You mean the proponderence of Intel PR info purports that right?
I dont buy Intel PR, any more than offers to buy a bridge.
Give me something that can actually be considered evidence.
Everything I've seen suggests that the Amd system in Intel's benchmarks, was severely crippled.
It would be more correct to say "The preponderence of evidence proves that Intel's staff are incompetent at setting up an Amd system.
April 15, 2006 4:56:57 AM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


:idea: Making a thread like this serves no purpose other than flame bait. It's no better than what the AMD faithful are doing with their threads. Let's try and keep this soap opera out of the forums.
April 15, 2006 5:01:11 AM

He's right! It means what it says. Admit it. Nothing last forever, like November rain. :D 
April 15, 2006 5:29:41 AM

Quote:
He's right! It means what it says. Admit it. Nothing last forever, like November rain. :D 


Hellz yeah a G n' R reference.......I was like in middle school. Ahhhh the good ol'd dayz. Good weed loud music and loose girls.......ok I lie about the girls part.......
April 15, 2006 5:47:52 AM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


:idea: Making a thread like this serves no purpose other than flame bait. It's no better than what the AMD faithful are doing with their threads. Let's try and keep this soap opera out of the forums.

Actually this hasn't turned into a fanboy flame war so far..........right. All I'm trying to say is that it seems to me that there seems to be a bias towards AMD in the tech community. Why???? Is it a..... well lets just root for the nice corp AMD............ against the evil corp intel........... or is it that intel ripped a bunch of you off, or maybe it's the lets just root for the underdog. The truth is that there is a techy bias that favors AMD, and it's kind of like the old ford vs. chevy competition (that's for you gearheads) but on a more intense level. I mean come on when you start reading stuff like "die! intel die! die! die!!!!" That's a whole different level.
April 15, 2006 4:12:40 PM

Quote:
I would argue that there seems to be a distinct difference between an AMD fanboy and an intel fanboy. (...)


That's the whole point: that kind of talk clearly defines the eternal & very actual 'if I'm white you must be black; but, if you're white, I'm whiter than you' nonsense. This is valid universally and it's an à priori (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/a+priori) statement.
It really doesn't matter what a fanboy/girl is if the keyword is fanaticism.
I'm pretty shure that, if we all knew a bit more (or nothing at all! :wink: ) about what we're talking about, the keyword would change to preference, support, empathy, admiration... "When's that bit more enough?" you may ask. Well, there's no à priori answer; that's the beauty of it. This, should be valid universally, in my opinion.


Cheers!
April 15, 2006 5:36:42 PM

The forums has done a complete 180. I remember when I first came here a little over nine months ago any Intel fanboy who posted favorable evidence was blasted by a chorus of AMD fans confident in AMD's superiority. Now it seems the tides are shifting, and the Intel fans are coming out to gloat. I'd just caution them, one day the tables will turn.
April 15, 2006 6:52:22 PM

Just looks at sports teams. The most sucking have the most diehard fans.
Same goes for AMD Fanboys.
April 15, 2006 7:41:34 PM

Quote:
The forums has done a complete 180. I remember when I first came here a little over nine months ago any Intel fanboy who posted favorable evidence was blasted by a chorus of AMD fans confident in AMD's superiority. Now it seems the tides are shifting, and the Intel fans are coming out to gloat. I'd just caution them, one day the tables will turn.


Yes, as for fanboyism (what a dreadful concept!), there's also some leap-frogging, mirroring current [processor/benchmark] trends, in forums like this one.
However, my point is that, we're hardly debating technology & economy trends, two of the most basic and yet, fundamental driving forces in any society (yes, even in third-world ones!).
The vast majority of computer users only care if it works, if it does what's intended to and if it's available/comfortable/safe/simple to use, in order to justify its price. That's all. These [apparent] elementary premises drive markets, profits & losses, helps build gigantic corporations (and drawns some!) and, even, give acronyms to corporate representatives (CEO, COO, CTO,...).
I wonder if Caboose-1's argument is really that decisive:
Quote:
Who knows, I could never figure out why someone would defend something they aren't even a part of, unless of course they own shares, then I could understand.

- Yes it is, if taken into [fanboyism's] extremes; what would I GAIN by defending, as much as I can and often beyond reasonable limits, what indeed doesn't belong - in any material way - to me?! Sounds fair.

- No it isn't, from the mere user's perspective: they will defend, in their own way, what suits them best. No fanboyisms.
Marketing would be a much more powerful weapon if we were all fanboys/girls; in this case (Intel vs AMD), both sides would grow proportionately. But, paradoxically, the widest end-user mass-market is also the one with the biggest inertia & reluctancy to the change (for medium-to-large entreprises, the inertia-to-change ratio is even bigger: costs & compatibility, are significant enough).

Bottom line:
Aside from any fanboy/girl contention, ultimately it's the [mere] end-user preference which drives the markets, not fanboyism.
Edit: And they sure defend their brands agressively, if it works & pays off.

Ah! Disclaimer (Hello, Jack! :D  ): This is my opinion... and it's bound to change, anytime! :D 


Cheers!
April 15, 2006 8:40:51 PM

i think there is one phrase from HL2 which applies to intel:

Quote:
The combine can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


and now the intel version

Quote:
Intel can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


i think this is what has happened, AMD's increased share has alarmed intel, and their getting all defensive (conroe?) and are responding in kind (and possibly greater) than AMD

Ara
April 15, 2006 8:53:02 PM

Quote:
i think there is one phrase from HL2 which applies to intel:

The combine can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


and now the intel version

Quote:
Intel can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


i think this is what has happened, AMD's increased share has alarmed intel, and their getting all defensive (conroe?) and are responding in kind (and possibly greater) than AMD

AraA predictable failure doctor Freeman

or

A predictable failure doctor Ruiz
April 15, 2006 8:56:25 PM

ROFLMAO

that was good

night, night

Ara
April 15, 2006 9:48:06 PM

Oh u ppl woud wonder how many intel freaks are arround and im saying that because i work in a hardware shop and i see ppl coming in and asking where are the systems with pentium procesors they dont whana now about nothing else u cant change ther mind P4 is the best :) .I might be categorized as and AMD fan boy but im a fan for best performance/$$$.
________________
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PSU Hiper HPU-4S425
April 15, 2006 10:27:08 PM

This is actually realy sad, i mean do all you lot do is moan and argue about being a fan boy or whatever, so what if intel next cpu architecture is better than amd's, i currently have an amd cpu, but i am not a fanboy, if next gen intel cpu's are better than amd i will buy intel, you lot moaning and arguing with ewach other like, my processor is better than urs is, is childish. all you fanboys out there including amd and intel, need to grow up, get laid and stop winging like a pussy.
April 15, 2006 10:36:00 PM

Quote:
Here is a thought.
What if those you claim are Amd fanboys, are actually performance fanboys, who are trying to prevent Intel's chosen benchmarks from influencing the the buying public?


I will just comment on this one -- is general buying public (think on a scale of millions) performance savvy as you and me?

No? Of course not because most of them use their computers for not so demanding tasks of office, surfing, mp3 and movies.

Now with that out of the way, please let us know which CPU from Celeron to Sempron, from A64/x2 to Pentium 4/Pentium D cannot perform given tasks with adequate performance?

Truth is that they all do pretty good job in common tasks and mind you, not everyone needs to play the latest games which can bring even the fastest/most expensive beasts down to their knees.

So, if you are trying to place a wake up call upon buyers, it is about time for you to wake up and realize that 95% of them simply don't care.

The other 5% are fanatics which crave for every .1s in something so meaningless as a SuperPI benchmark just so they can show off in front of their friends.

Before you ask why SuperPI is meaningless:

#1 - you can't do anything usefull with it
#2 - if you need PI calculated to so many decimal places you can do it faster with PiFast43
#3 - it doesn't prove that your CPU overall performance is great
#4 - you don't overclock it for everyday use that much as you do it for benchmarking

The worst thing with AMD fans is that they try to convert everyone to their side. Grow up already, some people want to drive BMW even though Ferrari is faster. It is called freedom of choice and brand awareness and everyone should have it.
Cheers
April 15, 2006 11:05:55 PM

Listen Intel fanboys. For the last 4 + years, Amd has had the better product. If someone came to this forum, during that time, and suggested that Intel chips were better, they got flamed.
IF conroe is better, the same thing will happen, if someone tries to say that Amd is better.
We are a tech forum. We dont like people lying about product.
We dont even care if people dont use 100% of the product. The only thing we do care about is fitting a recommendation to the asker's needs. (We even suggested Intel over the last four years, where it made sense)
Right now, if someone wants the best chip available, 95% of the time, that would be Amd.
By the way, if you have bought exclusively Intel over the last four years, you can probably count yourself a moron. I am sure you will all claim that for your needs, Intel was better. Who are you lying to.
April 15, 2006 11:17:09 PM

@AMD Fanboys:
In Soviet Russia, AMD defends YOU.
April 15, 2006 11:18:39 PM

wow dude, are you kidding, I know some Apple people, and I would be willing to bet most of them(guys) would do Unspeakable things to Steve Jobs Lewinski style given the chance. But really though, what does this bother you for, let it roll of your back. I am a fan of AMD but not a fanboy, so just take it with a grain of salt. And to say that people are like that just for one company is obviously false, it's not the company it's human nature. Alot of people root for the underdog, hell I do. But when Intel was put in it's place by K8 alot of the Intel fanboys shut up. Just wait, wait for Conroe to come out if it is really that much faster than K8..... you will see them again. And probably see many more than you ever imagined. But anywayz, I am not really sure to this day why fanboys on both sides are getting so fired up about an imaginary cpu, it is still vaporware..... wait for the damn thing to release, all of you...... then you can whine about stuff all you want. 50% of you will look like fools when it comes out, so.... just think about it.... and maybe we can have some normal conversations again about something that can actually be bought and tested by the consumers.....
April 15, 2006 11:22:52 PM

Monica Lewinski is totally hot.
April 15, 2006 11:26:22 PM

Wow, you are sick (or maybe you just need glasses)
I guess we are all entittled to our own opinion, no matter how stupid it is.
April 15, 2006 11:49:15 PM

You find “fanboys” in any venue there’s competition, although they usually see themselves as men, or the more “enlightened”, adults. The perceived dominant competitor has their fans and most everyone else that cares doesn’t like them. In baseball it’s the Yankees and for those of you who aren’t into sports, the passions run just as high. In fact sports and car fans are far more likely to get into fights than CPU fans. Maybe it’s the bars I drink at but I don’t ever remember a fight ever breaking out between an Intel and AMD fanboys, though it could be fun to watch. These kinds of discussions can be interesting when the people involved are knowledgeable, civil, and keep the emotions more or less in check. As far as I’m concerned, flaming is just plain irritating and rude, like the TV shows or athletes with an in-you-face attitude, although it’s probably therapeutic for those involved. Threads like this don’t bother me, they are clearly labeled in the Subject. What does bother me is when someone asks a question and the thread turns into fanboy howling and the person doesn’t get they’re question answered. People that do this are just plain rude, they’re just interrupting and taking over someone else’s conversation.
April 16, 2006 12:19:05 AM

Quote:
You find “fanboys” in any venue there’s competition, although they usually see themselves as men, or the more “enlightened”, adults. The perceived dominant competitor has their fans and most everyone else that cares doesn’t like them. In baseball it’s the Yankees and for those of you who aren’t into sports, the passions run just as high. In fact sports and car fans are far more likely to get into fights than CPU fans. Maybe it’s the bars I drink at but I don’t ever remember a fight ever breaking out between an Intel and AMD fanboys, though it could be fun to watch. These kinds of discussions can be interesting when the people involved are knowledgeable, civil, and keep the emotions more or less in check. As far as I’m concerned, flaming is just plain irritating and rude, like the TV shows or athletes with an in-you-face attitude, although it’s probably therapeutic for those involved. Threads like this don’t bother me, they are clearly labeled in the Subject. What does bother me is when someone asks a question and the thread turns into fanboy howling and the person doesn’t get they’re question answered. People that do this are just plain rude, they’re just interrupting and taking over someone else’s conversation.


Word.
April 16, 2006 12:37:51 AM

Quote:
Listen Intel fanboys.


I don't like you calling me a fanboy, I use my computer for work, and not just for showing off.

Quote:
For the last 4 + years, Amd has had the better product. If someone came to this forum, during that time, and suggested that Intel chips were better, they got flamed.


Better for what?!? Gaming? SuperPI? Benchmarks? What about video editing, music production, etc?!? What about all stability issues that plagued AMD platform until nVidia came to the rescue with nForce chipsets?!?

How can you be ignorant when it comes to the fact that better for you does not mean better for everyone?

Quote:
IF conroe is better, the same thing will happen, if someone tries to say that Amd is better.


I somehow doubt it after having witnessed typical mind state of an AMD fan.

Quote:
We are a tech forum. We dont like people lying about product.


We, we, blah, blah, geez... who do you think you are? You sound like a leader of a communist party. Who put YOU in charge and authorized you to speak in the name of the whole community?

Quote:
We dont even care if people dont use 100% of the product.


See? That is what I am talking about -- ignorance.

Quote:
The only thing we do care about is fitting a recommendation to the asker's needs.


Ok, then fit one for me. I program for Windows platform (C/C++/ASM, medical imaging, CAT/MRI), ocasionaly play latest games and encode some movies using DivX. I also use Photoshop and Cubase.

Quote:
By the way, if you have bought exclusively Intel over the last four years, you can probably count yourself a moron. I am sure you will all claim that for your needs, Intel was better. Who are you lying to.


Then by your standards I am a moron because I have been doing it for more than 4 years. :D 

Now comes the funny part -- MY COMPUTER WAS ALWAYS CAPABLE OF PERFORMING ALL THE TASKS I REQUIRED FROM IT. PROOF IS THAT I STILL HAVE MY JOB, AND THAT I AM NOT AT LOSS WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY. EVERY INTEL I HAD SO FAR HAS PAID ITSELF OFF BY MORE THAN 3 TIMES OF ITS PRICE.

What I really need to know is the following:

HOW DARE YOU TO DENY ME MY FREEDOM OF CHOICE AND TO INSULT ME OVER IT?!?

You really need to think about this. You are not a God, you are expendable, you are but a small rusty screw in a large machinery. Nobody sane cares what you believe or think because there is at least 1,000,000 other idiots posting same bullshit like you at this very moment on the Internet. Either you trust everyone or you trust no one, I vote for second option. That means I don't trust you too.

Moreover, I don't have to justify my buying decisions to you -- IT IS MY MONEY, NOT YOURS so stick your nose back into your own ass.
April 16, 2006 1:21:50 AM

Quote:
i think there is one phrase from HL2 which applies to intel:

The combine can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


and now the intel version

Quote:
Intel can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


i think this is what has happened, AMD's increased share has alarmed intel, and their getting all defensive (conroe?) and are responding in kind (and possibly greater) than AMD

Ara

:D  Funny analogy.

But, inaccurate, though.
(Disclaimer: what I'm about to state is my opinion, for how polemic it might be.)

Down to the dungeons. Intel deliberately triggered NetBurst (pun intended) in order to test innovative features (like trace cache, micro-ops fusion, HyperThreading, etecetera) at dizzying frequencies. A [very] deep pipeline might be a fine approach to single-threaded performance, while compensating TLP with HyperThreading. This kind of "best of both worlds" is counter-intuitive, however, and Intel new it since its first 20-stage pipelined P4. And, Intel had plenty of examples (some of its own) at the time NetBurst was born: IBM/Motorola, AMD and... the P6/PIII. "Heat issues, you say?!" Naaah, Intel surely knew better than that, ever since the first HSF came with the box (probably, much earlier). "Hampered performance, no kidding?!" Except for AMD'ers (?), of course, NetBurst was a success! Still is! (Intel always had a mallaise in the server space... but, it delivered even if for lack of alternatives... until Opteron).
Now, this test involved everything a chip's designer & manufacturer like Intel can throw at it: financial & human resources, design, architecture, engineering, lithographic processes, logistics, OEMs & retail supply... while maintaining - in parallel - its "skunk works" at full speed (Israel's Pentium M team & Itanium).
It's hard to believe that highly qualified, best-of-class chip designers, architects, engineers & physicists of all sorts, simply ignored the current basics of computing performance & the laws of thermodynamics; well, it doesn't make sense to me, at all. Too much naïveté (?) is suspicious... unless it was taken on purpose!
Itanium was/is an experiment, a failed attempt to shift computing trends with an overwhelmingly innovative paradigm. But, not NetBurst.
The consumers were used as probes (aren't they always?!), performance & profit wise... and, it worked. Meanwhile, the Centrino pack was coming out of the Israeli "skunk works'" facility. Intel played both ways: very fast (P4) AND very wide (Pentium M).
Then, what was expected for AMD (and IBM) to do, AMD did: They went full steam ahead with this [magnificient] microarchitecture, the Hammer (aka, K 8). They populated the space Intel was letting opened, namely, the server space, either by lack of [threatening] alternatives and by resting on its other segments' success. And, kept testing (both indoors & outdoors).
Intel-wise, it comes as a no [big] surprise the fact that Core's bringing the "best of both worlds", with enough room to expand, thanks to NetBurst & Pentium M... and to all of us who helped testing it.
From new technologies, new materials, new techniques, the symbiotic interplay of both computing approaches merged into another very successful, future proof microarchitecture, the one all Intel users also helped R&D to achieve.
Again, here's a good reason for the NetBurst implementation to have existed: multi-core processors - aside their multi advantage - will become the next conundrum if they cannot be pushed to higher frequencies; after all, why do we want so many fancy features performed at a "snail's" pace?

Finaly, what came as a surprise (lack of resources, pure naïveté or else...?), was AMD's rest on the K8 (I still wonder WHY Fred Weber really left... and I can't seem to find a convincing answer!).
Intel's a giant & bootstrapped its way up to where it is now; AMD's a dwarf, comparatively, but has IBM on its side & a lot of innovative assets & brainpower. IBM - in my view - is a major advantage AMD seemed to take loosely (strong speculation!): why aren't we already talking about an Intel-shame-on-you K10? Intel's apparent lack of foresight gave plenty of time to AMD; Opteron spoke out loud & pointed the way... to a decade old improved microarchitecture?! K8L?! Hard to believe. Sure, Intel took AMD's loose end; who wouldn't?!
Once again, NetBurst won.

(Double-disclaimer: Just my opinion! :D  )


Cheers!
April 16, 2006 3:26:22 AM

Quote:
It seems that lately all the amd fanboys have been on the defense. Their are alot of AMD fanboy sites that are scrambling to discredit conroe .i.e sharikou.blogspot.com, geek.com. Now I find it interesting that most of these guys take it so personal and go out of their way to defend a company like AMD....I mean it is almost down right fanatical. Now I'm not saying that intel doesn't have fanboys, cuz they do, but no where near the level of devotion and I'd take a bullet in the chest for AMD extreme. Is there a reason for this.......I just can't think of any other company that has this much of a loyal following.....yes even the apple geeks are not as loyal to their beloved apple. I hope the K8L works for AMD or we're going to start seeing amd fanboy sites saying that intel is the devil and they funded hitler during WWII........oh wait they probably already wrote that...........All hail AMD!!!!!!


It has to do with the fact that the AMD camp can't find real logistical facts to disuade Intels up and coming technology.

The thing that irks me the most is, one day, everybody seems to agree on one thing and as soon as a single little shred of evidence comes floating around, everybody jumps ship and screams at each other.
April 16, 2006 3:55:42 AM

Quote:
The thing that irks me the most is, one day, everybody seems to agree on one thing and as soon as a single little shred of evidence comes floating around, everybody jumps ship and screams at each other.


That actually happens because people jump ship. If they would once and for all stick with their choice and let others have their own instead of that silly craving for the bigger burger when they actually aren't hungry... nah, I am dreaming... utopia.
April 16, 2006 4:00:36 AM

Quote:
Listen Intel fanboys. For the last 4 + years, Amd has had the better product. If someone came to this forum, during that time, and suggested that Intel chips were better, they got flamed.
IF conroe is better, the same thing will happen, if someone tries to say that Amd is better.
We are a tech forum. We dont like people lying about product.
We dont even care if people dont use 100% of the product. The only thing we do care about is fitting a recommendation to the asker's needs. (We even suggested Intel over the last four years, where it made sense)
Right now, if someone wants the best chip available, 95% of the time, that would be Amd.
By the way, if you have bought exclusively Intel over the last four years, you can probably count yourself a moron. I am sure you will all claim that for your needs, Intel was better. Who are you lying to.


4+ years? You need to check your history. More like 2 years.
April 16, 2006 5:26:01 AM

Let me preface this by stating this is merely my opinion, and that I am somewhat an AMD "fanboy" (though not to the levels some people have displayed).

The "fanboyism" displayed is a psychological phenomenon that is commonly seen throughout humanity. People use certain things which they have no relation to as a means to identify themselves. How often do you hear someone say "our team won" after a football game? Regardless of the fact that this person didn't throw a single pass, block a single offensive lineman, or have any other impact on the game.

People have a preference for AMD or Intel, and it becomes a part of how they define themselves as a person. When this company is attacked, it is naturally taken as being a personal attack, regardless of the fact that the fate of the company does not effect you in any vital way. But still, it is taken as an attack on that person's identity and thus the reaction is a strong one.

I think one of the main reasons AMD has a bit more "fanatical" followers is that they have always been, and still are (market-share wise) The Underdog. Everyone loves to root for The Underdog.

Another reason I see for AMD's very loyal fan-base is that they have, from what I have seen in my 6+ years in the computer industry, offered a better performance/price ratio. Sure, the Pentium 4 3.2GHz w/HT may have outperformed my Barton 2500+ oc'ed to 3200+, but I got it for about $200 less than the Intel offering. The Intel offering, by the way, was not that much better in performance either, certainly not enough for me to justify another $200 on my system. Plus there is a certain level of enjoyment from the fact that I am able to get 3200+ speeds from the (far cheaper) 2500+. Heck, if I push it I can get 2.5GHz out of that 2500+ (but the heat becomes greater than I like). It's as much a hobby as it is functional.

These forums, as several people have pointed out in this post and others, is populated by the vast minority of computer users. We are the "tech-savvy" users, the people who research and (to varying degrees) understand the products which we choose to purchase. Because of this increased level of understanding and awareness, most of us are aware of the price/performance advantage AMD has rather consistantly had since the K7 (K6 was debatable in my eyes).

The companies, both AMD and Intel (not to mention just about every other major company out there) encourage this behavior. These extremely loyal few will ensure that even if they put out an inferior product, somebody is going to buy it. There is also the issue of "word-of-mouth advertising." If you see a commercial, a forum thread, benchmarks, or just about anything else on TV/Internet/magazine, stating that Company A has a superior product, it helps. When you go to your friends house to play the copy of Oblivion he just got and you say "Holy ****, how does this run so well on your computer?!?"; to which your friend replies "Well dude, I got a Company B product in this!" - it goes a lot further than any advertising the company can conjur up.
April 16, 2006 5:29:52 AM

Quote:
Listen Intel fanboys.


I don't like you calling me a fanboy, I use my computer for work, and not just for showing off.

Quote:
For the last 4 + years, Amd has had the better product. If someone came to this forum, during that time, and suggested that Intel chips were better, they got flamed.


Better for what?!? Gaming? SuperPI? Benchmarks? What about video editing, music production, etc?!? What about all stability issues that plagued AMD platform until nVidia came to the rescue with nForce chipsets?!?

How can you be ignorant when it comes to the fact that better for you does not mean better for everyone?

Quote:
IF conroe is better, the same thing will happen, if someone tries to say that Amd is better.


I somehow doubt it after having witnessed typical mind state of an AMD fan.

Quote:
We are a tech forum. We dont like people lying about product.


We, we, blah, blah, geez... who do you think you are? You sound like a leader of a communist party. Who put YOU in charge and authorized you to speak in the name of the whole community?

Quote:
We dont even care if people dont use 100% of the product.


See? That is what I am talking about -- ignorance.

Quote:
The only thing we do care about is fitting a recommendation to the asker's needs.


Ok, then fit one for me. I program for Windows platform (C/C++/ASM, medical imaging, CAT/MRI), ocasionaly play latest games and encode some movies using DivX. I also use Photoshop and Cubase.

Quote:
By the way, if you have bought exclusively Intel over the last four years, you can probably count yourself a moron. I am sure you will all claim that for your needs, Intel was better. Who are you lying to.


Then by your standards I am a moron because I have been doing it for more than 4 years. :D 

Now comes the funny part -- MY COMPUTER WAS ALWAYS CAPABLE OF PERFORMING ALL THE TASKS I REQUIRED FROM IT. PROOF IS THAT I STILL HAVE MY JOB, AND THAT I AM NOT AT LOSS WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY. EVERY INTEL I HAD SO FAR HAS PAID ITSELF OFF BY MORE THAN 3 TIMES OF ITS PRICE.

What I really need to know is the following:

HOW DARE YOU TO DENY ME MY FREEDOM OF CHOICE AND TO INSULT ME OVER IT?!?

You really need to think about this. You are not a God, you are expendable, you are but a small rusty screw in a large machinery. Nobody sane cares what you believe or think because there is at least 1,000,000 other idiots posting same bullshit like you at this very moment on the Internet. Either you trust everyone or you trust no one, I vote for second option. That means I don't trust you too.

Moreover, I don't have to justify my buying decisions to you -- IT IS MY MONEY, NOT YOURS so stick your nose back into your own ass.

Word.
April 16, 2006 5:30:39 AM

Quote:
i think there is one phrase from HL2 which applies to intel:

The combine can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


and now the intel version

Quote:
Intel can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


i think this is what has happened, AMD's increased share has alarmed intel, and their getting all defensive (conroe?) and are responding in kind (and possibly greater) than AMD

Ara

:D  Funny analogy.

But, inaccurate, though.
(Disclaimer: what I'm about to state is my opinion, for how polemic it might be.)

Down to the dungeons. Intel deliberately triggered NetBurst (pun intended) in order to test innovative features (like trace cache, micro-ops fusion, HyperThreading, etecetera) at dizzying frequencies. A [very] deep pipeline might be a fine approach to single-threaded performance, while compensating TLP with HyperThreading. This kind of "best of both worlds" is counter-intuitive, however, and Intel new it since its first 20-stage pipelined P4. And, Intel had plenty of examples (some of its own) at the time NetBurst was born: IBM/Motorola, AMD and... the P6/PIII. "Heat issues, you say?!" Naaah, Intel surely knew better than that, ever since the first HSF came with the box (probably, much earlier). "Hampered performance, no kidding?!" Except for AMD'ers (?), of course, NetBurst was a success! Still is! (Intel always had a mallaise in the server space... but, it delivered even if for lack of alternatives... until Opteron).
Now, this test involved everything a chip's designer & manufacturer like Intel can throw at it: financial & human resources, design, architecture, engineering, lithographic processes, logistics, OEMs & retail supply... while maintaining - in parallel - its "skunk works" at full speed (Israel's Pentium M team & Itanium).
It's hard to believe that highly qualified, best-of-class chip designers, architects, engineers & physicists of all sorts, simply ignored the current basics of computing performance & the laws of thermodynamics; well, it doesn't make sense to me, at all. Too much naïveté (?) is suspicious... unless it was taken on purpose!
Itanium was/is an experiment, a failed attempt to shift computing trends with an overwhelmingly innovative paradigm. But, not NetBurst.
The consumers were used as probes (aren't they always?!), performance & profit wise... and, it worked. Meanwhile, the Centrino pack was coming out of the Israeli "skunk works'" facility. Intel played both ways: very fast (P4) AND very wide (Pentium M).
Then, what was expected for AMD (and IBM) to do, AMD did: They went full steam ahead with this [magnificient] microarchitecture, the Hammer (aka, K 8). They populated the space Intel was letting opened, namely, the server space, either by lack of [threatening] alternatives and by resting on its other segments' success. And, kept testing (both indoors & outdoors).
Intel-wise, it comes as a no [big] surprise the fact that Core's bringing the "best of both worlds", with enough room to expand, thanks to NetBurst & Pentium M... and to all of us who helped testing it.
From new technologies, new materials, new techniques, the symbiotic interplay of both computing approaches merged into another very successful, future proof microarchitecture, the one all Intel users also helped R&D to achieve.
Again, here's a good reason for the NetBurst implementation to have existed: multi-core processors - aside their multi advantage - will become the next conundrum if they cannot be pushed to higher frequencies; after all, why do we want so many fancy features performed at a "snail's" pace?

Finaly, what came as a surprise (lack of resources, pure naïveté or else...?), was AMD's rest on the K8 (I still wonder WHY Fred Weber really left... and I can't seem to find a convincing answer!).
Intel's a giant & bootstrapped its way up to where it is now; AMD's a dwarf, comparatively, but has IBM on its side & a lot of innovative assets & brainpower. IBM - in my view - is a major advantage AMD seemed to take loosely (strong speculation!): why aren't we already talking about an Intel-shame-on-you K10? Intel's apparent lack of foresight gave plenty of time to AMD; Opteron spoke out loud & pointed the way... to a decade old improved microarchitecture?! K8L?! Hard to believe. Sure, Intel took AMD's loose end; who wouldn't?!
Once again, NetBurst won.

(Double-disclaimer: Just my opinion! :D  )


Cheers!

Word.
April 16, 2006 7:02:58 AM

Quote:
i think there is one phrase from HL2 which applies to intel:

The combine can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


and now the intel version

Quote:
Intel can be slow to wake, but once their up, you don't want to get in their way


i think this is what has happened, AMD's increased share has alarmed intel, and their getting all defensive (conroe?) and are responding in kind (and possibly greater) than AMD

Ara

:D  Funny analogy.

But, inaccurate, though.
(Disclaimer: what I'm about to state is my opinion, for how polemic it might be.)

Down to the dungeons. Intel deliberately triggered NetBurst (pun intended) in order to test innovative features (like trace cache, micro-ops fusion, HyperThreading, etecetera) at dizzying frequencies. A [very] deep pipeline might be a fine approach to single-threaded performance, while compensating TLP with HyperThreading. This kind of "best of both worlds" is counter-intuitive, however, and Intel new it since its first 20-stage pipelined P4. And, Intel had plenty of examples (some of its own) at the time NetBurst was born: IBM/Motorola, AMD and... the P6/PIII. "Heat issues, you say?!" Naaah, Intel surely knew better than that, ever since the first HSF came with the box (probably, much earlier). "Hampered performance, no kidding?!" Except for AMD'ers (?), of course, NetBurst was a success! Still is! (Intel always had a mallaise in the server space... but, it delivered even if for lack of alternatives... until Opteron).
Now, this test involved everything a chip's designer & manufacturer like Intel can throw at it: financial & human resources, design, architecture, engineering, lithographic processes, logistics, OEMs & retail supply... while maintaining - in parallel - its "skunk works" at full speed (Israel's Pentium M team & Itanium).
It's hard to believe that highly qualified, best-of-class chip designers, architects, engineers & physicists of all sorts, simply ignored the current basics of computing performance & the laws of thermodynamics; well, it doesn't make sense to me, at all. Too much naïveté (?) is suspicious... unless it was taken on purpose!
Itanium was/is an experiment, a failed attempt to shift computing trends with an overwhelmingly innovative paradigm. But, not NetBurst.
The consumers were used as probes (aren't they always?!), performance & profit wise... and, it worked. Meanwhile, the Centrino pack was coming out of the Israeli "skunk works'" facility. Intel played both ways: very fast (P4) AND very wide (Pentium M).
Then, what was expected for AMD (and IBM) to do, AMD did: They went full steam ahead with this [magnificient] microarchitecture, the Hammer (aka, K 8). They populated the space Intel was letting opened, namely, the server space, either by lack of [threatening] alternatives and by resting on its other segments' success. And, kept testing (both indoors & outdoors).
Intel-wise, it comes as a no [big] surprise the fact that Core's bringing the "best of both worlds", with enough room to expand, thanks to NetBurst & Pentium M... and to all of us who helped testing it.
From new technologies, new materials, new techniques, the symbiotic interplay of both computing approaches merged into another very successful, future proof microarchitecture, the one all Intel users also helped R&D to achieve.
Again, here's a good reason for the NetBurst implementation to have existed: multi-core processors - aside their multi advantage - will become the next conundrum if they cannot be pushed to higher frequencies; after all, why do we want so many fancy features performed at a "snail's" pace?

Finaly, what came as a surprise (lack of resources, pure naïveté or else...?), was AMD's rest on the K8 (I still wonder WHY Fred Weber really left... and I can't seem to find a convincing answer!).
Intel's a giant & bootstrapped its way up to where it is now; AMD's a dwarf, comparatively, but has IBM on its side & a lot of innovative assets & brainpower. IBM - in my view - is a major advantage AMD seemed to take loosely (strong speculation!): why aren't we already talking about an Intel-shame-on-you K10? Intel's apparent lack of foresight gave plenty of time to AMD; Opteron spoke out loud & pointed the way... to a decade old improved microarchitecture?! K8L?! Hard to believe. Sure, Intel took AMD's loose end; who wouldn't?!
Once again, NetBurst won.

(Double-disclaimer: Just my opinion! :D  )


Cheers!

Word.
Wishful thinking
April 16, 2006 7:25:25 PM

Quote:
Let me preface this by stating this is merely my opinion, and that I am somewhat an AMD "fanboy" (though not to the levels some people have displayed).

The "fanboyism" displayed is a psychological phenomenon that is commonly seen throughout humanity. People use certain things which they have no relation to as a means to identify themselves. How often do you hear someone say "our team won" after a football game? Regardless of the fact that this person didn't throw a single pass, block a single offensive lineman, or have any other impact on the game.

People have a preference for AMD or Intel, and it becomes a part of how they define themselves as a person. When this company is attacked, it is naturally taken as being a personal attack, regardless of the fact that the fate of the company does not effect you in any vital way. But still, it is taken as an attack on that person's identity and thus the reaction is a strong one.

I think one of the main reasons AMD has a bit more "fanatical" followers is that they have always been, and still are (market-share wise) The Underdog. Everyone loves to root for The Underdog.

Another reason I see for AMD's very loyal fan-base is that they have, from what I have seen in my 6+ years in the computer industry, offered a better performance/price ratio. Sure, the Pentium 4 3.2GHz w/HT may have outperformed my Barton 2500+ oc'ed to 3200+, but I got it for about $200 less than the Intel offering. The Intel offering, by the way, was not that much better in performance either, certainly not enough for me to justify another $200 on my system. Plus there is a certain level of enjoyment from the fact that I am able to get 3200+ speeds from the (far cheaper) 2500+. Heck, if I push it I can get 2.5GHz out of that 2500+ (but the heat becomes greater than I like). It's as much a hobby as it is functional.

These forums, as several people have pointed out in this post and others, is populated by the vast minority of computer users. We are the "tech-savvy" users, the people who research and (to varying degrees) understand the products which we choose to purchase. Because of this increased level of understanding and awareness, most of us are aware of the price/performance advantage AMD has rather consistantly had since the K7 (K6 was debatable in my eyes).


you missed one vital point, and that is, that when you overclocked your 2500 for $200 less to 3.2Ghz P4 speeds, you could overclock the P4 that much further... P4's overclock really well. You can even use that analogy against a 3200. You overclock the 2500 for $200 less than the 3200 to 3200 speeds, the 3200 can go that much further, to say 3800. From my own experience, P4 @ 3.2Ghz outperforms a 3400.
!