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Multi-site, global deployment of VoIP - Qs

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Anonymous
August 6, 2004 12:27:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Like any other good "netizen" - once I got my new assignment, I have
started "poking around" various information resources:voip-info.org,
reading this group, etc. The time came - though - when - despite all the
information I have stumbled upon, so far, I need to bug you with some
questions/thoughts:

First teh setup - I am responsible for a global network, with LANs in
various countries in the world, with the majority of connections happening
over site-to-site VPNs, managed by my group (i.e. no QoS, but "fat" pipes
.... I know, I know - latency is here important - but I can tell you that
none of my existing links has had higher latency than the previously used
WAN/dedicated connetions (FRs, T1s, etc.))

Second - the LANs are - in the majority of cases - old technology - so I
will be reaping those apart, probably. Inside those I have good telephony
infrastructure, with - mostly - Nortel gear (thus hard to justify taking
those out, for the IP Telephony - in fact this may be a question on its
own ...)

And now the Qs:

- has anybody deployed successfully VoIP over site-to-site VPNs? If so -
what type of devices/solutions?
- in regards to IPTelephony - I am being pushed to go with the Cisco
"suite" - Call Manager annd such. I have recently had a horrible
experience with the Express version (calls stumbling on each other,
voice messages showing up days later, etc.), but I was told that it was
because of the (im)maturity level of Express, vs. the very robust CM 4.0
that I should be using. Is this correct?
- what solutions (links) would you recommend for a global/multi-site
architecture(s)?
- for the infrastructure - I am thinking 3750s, in conjunction with 2950s
for small sites, and 65xx and 4xxx for bigger ones (multi-layered). Any
advise in this regard?
- though in charge with a group of geeks, and having deployed many other
things on our own, before, I am afraid I may have to go with consulting
from experienced people this time ... it's just that my Cisco acct rep's
statement gives me shivers about "plug-and-play" Cisco VoIP solutions ;) 
Would this be a correct approach (though more costly, of course), or would
you think we'll "figure it out"?

I would definitely appreciate first hand experience sharing, and I will
try to summarize - in the end - your replies.

TIA,
Papi
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 10:05:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Probably the best thing you can do is go to some of the major dealers'
websites and see what they have to offer. Some like NEC, Cisco, Nortel all
have excellent solutions. To answer some of your questions/concerns: QoS
is almost as important as latency if not more, so you may want to implement
some sort of QoS. Doing a Point to Multipoint VoIP solution is possible
with VPN's in fact is it encouraged. If you limit the traffic on the
network such as the Internet Cloud traffic it will improve your quality,
thus VPN's are great for that. I have personally installed NEC VoIP
solutions over VPN's that were poorly setup and have not had any problems.
Your switches and router selection is good (Layer 2/3). IP Telephony is a
field that has drastically improved over the last year or so. There are
programs that run in the "background and pop up when you receive a message
or phone call and then allows you to route the call in whatever way you
need. There are also those that integrate with Outlook and notify you when
a new message arrives. Cisco is not the only solution, it is a good one,
but there are others that are more economical and just as efficient if not
more. Hope this helps.
"Papi" <papaia.a@home.ro> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.08.06.13.27.48.846384@home.ro...
> Like any other good "netizen" - once I got my new assignment, I have
> started "poking around" various information resources:voip-info.org,
> reading this group, etc. The time came - though - when - despite all the
> information I have stumbled upon, so far, I need to bug you with some
> questions/thoughts:
>
> First teh setup - I am responsible for a global network, with LANs in
> various countries in the world, with the majority of connections happening
> over site-to-site VPNs, managed by my group (i.e. no QoS, but "fat" pipes
> ... I know, I know - latency is here important - but I can tell you that
> none of my existing links has had higher latency than the previously used
> WAN/dedicated connetions (FRs, T1s, etc.))
>
> Second - the LANs are - in the majority of cases - old technology - so I
> will be reaping those apart, probably. Inside those I have good telephony
> infrastructure, with - mostly - Nortel gear (thus hard to justify taking
> those out, for the IP Telephony - in fact this may be a question on its
> own ...)
>
> And now the Qs:
>
> - has anybody deployed successfully VoIP over site-to-site VPNs? If so -
> what type of devices/solutions?
> - in regards to IPTelephony - I am being pushed to go with the Cisco
> "suite" - Call Manager annd such. I have recently had a horrible
> experience with the Express version (calls stumbling on each other,
> voice messages showing up days later, etc.), but I was told that it was
> because of the (im)maturity level of Express, vs. the very robust CM 4.0
> that I should be using. Is this correct?
> - what solutions (links) would you recommend for a global/multi-site
> architecture(s)?
> - for the infrastructure - I am thinking 3750s, in conjunction with 2950s
> for small sites, and 65xx and 4xxx for bigger ones (multi-layered). Any
> advise in this regard?
> - though in charge with a group of geeks, and having deployed many other
> things on our own, before, I am afraid I may have to go with consulting
> from experienced people this time ... it's just that my Cisco acct rep's
> statement gives me shivers about "plug-and-play" Cisco VoIP solutions ;) 
> Would this be a correct approach (though more costly, of course), or would
> you think we'll "figure it out"?
>
> I would definitely appreciate first hand experience sharing, and I will
> try to summarize - in the end - your replies.
>
> TIA,
> Papi
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:09:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Papi wrote:

> - has anybody deployed successfully VoIP over site-to-site VPNs? If so -
> what type of devices/solutions?

Ive set VOIP up over the public Internet using VPN, it works extremely well
between the UK, USA and United Arab Emirates, India will be online in a few
months.

Ive managed to cut phone bills by 50% using the Avaya IP Office, a few VPN
concentrators and IP phones. We also now have the ability to "break out" at
each site, allowing for local call rates into the countries with the
systems.

Mind you our setup wouldn't cope with anymore than 10 concurrent users --
doesnt need to -- but that's more down to the VPN routers being used rather
than the Avaya IPO.

The boss loves it.
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 4:16:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Rather than ripping out all of your old telcom gear, have you thought about
just plugging in some VOIP gateways between the PSTN and your PBX. As a
small business user, I've been looking at Multitech and the Sipura SPA-3000
boxes, which look like they might do a great job (the SPA-3000 is only
$120).

I don't know what's available for larger users, but something similar could
save you a huge amount of money for replacing your existing phone systems.

Mike Schumann

"Papi" <papaia.a@home.ro> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.08.06.13.27.48.846384@home.ro...
> Like any other good "netizen" - once I got my new assignment, I have
> started "poking around" various information resources:voip-info.org,
> reading this group, etc. The time came - though - when - despite all the
> information I have stumbled upon, so far, I need to bug you with some
> questions/thoughts:
>
> First teh setup - I am responsible for a global network, with LANs in
> various countries in the world, with the majority of connections happening
> over site-to-site VPNs, managed by my group (i.e. no QoS, but "fat" pipes
> ... I know, I know - latency is here important - but I can tell you that
> none of my existing links has had higher latency than the previously used
> WAN/dedicated connetions (FRs, T1s, etc.))
>
> Second - the LANs are - in the majority of cases - old technology - so I
> will be reaping those apart, probably. Inside those I have good telephony
> infrastructure, with - mostly - Nortel gear (thus hard to justify taking
> those out, for the IP Telephony - in fact this may be a question on its
> own ...)
>
> And now the Qs:
>
> - has anybody deployed successfully VoIP over site-to-site VPNs? If so -
> what type of devices/solutions?
> - in regards to IPTelephony - I am being pushed to go with the Cisco
> "suite" - Call Manager annd such. I have recently had a horrible
> experience with the Express version (calls stumbling on each other,
> voice messages showing up days later, etc.), but I was told that it was
> because of the (im)maturity level of Express, vs. the very robust CM 4.0
> that I should be using. Is this correct?
> - what solutions (links) would you recommend for a global/multi-site
> architecture(s)?
> - for the infrastructure - I am thinking 3750s, in conjunction with 2950s
> for small sites, and 65xx and 4xxx for bigger ones (multi-layered). Any
> advise in this regard?
> - though in charge with a group of geeks, and having deployed many other
> things on our own, before, I am afraid I may have to go with consulting
> from experienced people this time ... it's just that my Cisco acct rep's
> statement gives me shivers about "plug-and-play" Cisco VoIP solutions ;) 
> Would this be a correct approach (though more costly, of course), or would
> you think we'll "figure it out"?
>
> I would definitely appreciate first hand experience sharing, and I will
> try to summarize - in the end - your replies.
>
> TIA,
> Papi
September 29, 2004 11:06:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

Cisco router/gateways work great with Nortel PBX, do it all the time. I
don't know what you're using for VPN but at the very least make sure you
have QoS up to the VPN device. After that it's all internet so their isn't
much more you can do.

Do some basic round trip latency tests (simple ping) through the VPN
tunnels. If it varies greatly you will have quality problems known as
Jitter, this can be dealt with to a point. If the latency is over 100ms you
might have quality issue but it's very subjective. What kind of calling will
it be? Office to office, or customer to sales rep? Internal company
communication don't have to be as good as outside calls. If the latency gets
over 250ms you're in trouble.

"Mike Schumann" <mike-nospam@traditions-nospam.com> wrote in message
news:414dbefb$0$432$6536d21b@news.bitstream.net...
> Rather than ripping out all of your old telcom gear, have you thought
about
> just plugging in some VOIP gateways between the PSTN and your PBX. As a
> small business user, I've been looking at Multitech and the Sipura
SPA-3000
> boxes, which look like they might do a great job (the SPA-3000 is only
> $120).
>
> I don't know what's available for larger users, but something similar
could
> save you a huge amount of money for replacing your existing phone systems.
>
> Mike Schumann
>
> "Papi" <papaia.a@home.ro> wrote in message
> news:p an.2004.08.06.13.27.48.846384@home.ro...
> > Like any other good "netizen" - once I got my new assignment, I have
> > started "poking around" various information resources:voip-info.org,
> > reading this group, etc. The time came - though - when - despite all the
> > information I have stumbled upon, so far, I need to bug you with some
> > questions/thoughts:
> >
> > First teh setup - I am responsible for a global network, with LANs in
> > various countries in the world, with the majority of connections
happening
> > over site-to-site VPNs, managed by my group (i.e. no QoS, but "fat"
pipes
> > ... I know, I know - latency is here important - but I can tell you that
> > none of my existing links has had higher latency than the previously
used
> > WAN/dedicated connetions (FRs, T1s, etc.))
> >
> > Second - the LANs are - in the majority of cases - old technology - so I
> > will be reaping those apart, probably. Inside those I have good
telephony
> > infrastructure, with - mostly - Nortel gear (thus hard to justify taking
> > those out, for the IP Telephony - in fact this may be a question on its
> > own ...)
> >
> > And now the Qs:
> >
> > - has anybody deployed successfully VoIP over site-to-site VPNs? If so -
> > what type of devices/solutions?
> > - in regards to IPTelephony - I am being pushed to go with the Cisco
> > "suite" - Call Manager annd such. I have recently had a horrible
> > experience with the Express version (calls stumbling on each other,
> > voice messages showing up days later, etc.), but I was told that it was
> > because of the (im)maturity level of Express, vs. the very robust CM 4.0
> > that I should be using. Is this correct?
> > - what solutions (links) would you recommend for a global/multi-site
> > architecture(s)?
> > - for the infrastructure - I am thinking 3750s, in conjunction with
2950s
> > for small sites, and 65xx and 4xxx for bigger ones (multi-layered). Any
> > advise in this regard?
> > - though in charge with a group of geeks, and having deployed many other
> > things on our own, before, I am afraid I may have to go with consulting
> > from experienced people this time ... it's just that my Cisco acct rep's
> > statement gives me shivers about "plug-and-play" Cisco VoIP solutions ;) 
> > Would this be a correct approach (though more costly, of course), or
would
> > you think we'll "figure it out"?
> >
> > I would definitely appreciate first hand experience sharing, and I will
> > try to summarize - in the end - your replies.
> >
> > TIA,
> > Papi
>
>
Anonymous
September 30, 2004 3:15:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.voice-over-ip (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:06:15 -0400, "RC" <no-spam@not-real.com> wrote:
>
>Do some basic round trip latency tests (simple ping) through the VPN
>tunnels. If it varies greatly you will have quality problems known as
>Jitter, this can be dealt with to a point. If the latency is over 100ms you
>might have quality issue but it's very subjective. What kind of calling will
>it be? Office to office, or customer to sales rep? Internal company
>communication don't have to be as good as outside calls. If the latency gets
>over 250ms you're in trouble.
>
Pings are better than nothing, but there's a lot more to voice quality
than simple jitter and latency. See www.voiptroubleshooter.com for
more info.

Rather than doing a ping, you can use www.testyourvoip.com to get an
idea of what the line quality is on each link. However, quality can
change because of network loading. Note that time of day and day of
week can affect network loading, especially in a global situation.

If you've got the budget, get a VoIP analyzer or two and some probes.
The VoIP Troubleshooter website has a listing of these devices under
"Tools and Resources"
!