Color Laser

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
photos or something.

I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
running well.

Bill
30 answers Last reply
More about color laser
  1. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:11:09 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
    from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:

    >Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
    >color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
    >photos or something.
    >
    >I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
    >they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
    >black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
    >the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
    >ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
    >running well.
    >
    >Bill


    HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
    Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
    will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
    old one.
    Is this progress?


    Want to Fix Something?

    http://www.manuals4you.com
  2. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:34:31 -0500, Yikes!ItsIke
    <Yikes!ItsIke@younameit.com> found these unused words floating about:

    >On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:11:09 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
    >from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:
    >
    >>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
    >>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
    >>photos or something.
    >>
    >>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
    >>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
    >>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
    >>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
    >>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
    >>running well.
    >>
    >>Bill
    >
    >
    >HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
    >Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
    >will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
    >old one.
    >Is this progress?
    >
    >
    It's what the inkjunks have been doing for years ... !
  3. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Coup wrote:

    > Overall I'm so far quite satisfied with the 3100cn.. hopefully the
    > above will help others decide if this printer is of interest to
    > them...

    Am I correct in assuming that one could relatively easily turn off the
    color printing and force it to work monochrome most of the time to get
    cheaper pages? Only turn on the color when necessary? I see Dell
    claims 1.5c/page black and 12.5c/page color.

    And if the color sat unused for a week or two at a time would it still
    work or would that cause problems as with an ink jet? I never had
    trouble with a monochrome toner caking or something, but have no
    experience with color toners.

    Thanks...

    Bill
  4. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Bill,

    How many color prints will you be making per month?

    Dennis


    Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:
    > Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
    > color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
    > photos or something.
    >
    > I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or
    do
    > they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
    > black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it
    for
    > the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to

    > ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep
    them
    > running well.
    >
    > Bill
  5. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    How many color prints will you need to make each month ?
  6. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 01:46:17 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
    from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:

    >Coup wrote:
    >
    >> Overall I'm so far quite satisfied with the 3100cn.. hopefully the
    >> above will help others decide if this printer is of interest to
    >> them...
    >
    >Am I correct in assuming that one could relatively easily turn off the
    >color printing and force it to work monochrome most of the time to get
    >cheaper pages? Only turn on the color when necessary? I see Dell
    >claims 1.5c/page black and 12.5c/page color.

    Yes. There are 2 settings you make in the driver setup to force the
    printer to ONLY use the black toner, this not only saves money, the
    printer no longer cycles thru the 4 engines and the speed switches
    from the nominal 5 ppm to the 21 rated for monochrome. As suggested in
    the Dell Support Bulletin Board, many simply create a second instance
    of the printer driver with these settings, rename it 3100 Monochrome
    and use that when doing simple text runs....
    >
    >And if the color sat unused for a week or two at a time would it still
    >work or would that cause problems as with an ink jet? I never had
    >trouble with a monochrome toner caking or something, but have no
    >experience with color toners.

    Color toner acts the same as black toner, color lasers will act like a
    monochrome laser... ignore it for two months, turn it on, use
    it...period..... The only real issue with disuse is actually the
    paper... over long periods of time (months) depending upon the
    environment (temperature/humidity) the characteristics of the paper
    will change. Some will dry out, others may even absorb moisture...
    this can cause jamming and adherence issues for the toner... similar
    to what happens with copiers too. Also, note that inkjet papers
    should NEVER be used with a color laser (or copier for that matter).
    Inkjet papers are designed to allow controlled absorbtion of liquid
    inks... most of these coatings will leave deposits on a color laser
    drum that will foul them. In addition they inhibit the fusing of laser
    toner to the surface of the paper. You can use plain copy paper
    although color/photographic results will be less than optimum or color
    laser papers which are deliberately made with super-smooth surfaces
    designed to allow optimum fusing of the toner to the surface.
  7. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
    > Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
    > will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
    > old one.
    > Is this progress?

    It's typical of the usual HP ripoff. They've been waving two fingers
    at the paying customers for years over the cost of consumables, and
    the mugs smile happily at them while they're doing it :(

    Takes all sorts I suppose ...


    Bloggy
  8. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Most color laser printers have a mono mode that just uses the black
    toner. I see no reason why there would be a problem in leaving the
    color toners unused for several weeks.

    In general, from looking at the expendable of several color laser
    printers, the black toner is cheaper than the color and often has more
    toner in the cartridge, but it often still costs more than a black toner
    from a monochrome only printer.

    Art

    Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:

    > Coup wrote:
    >
    >> Overall I'm so far quite satisfied with the 3100cn.. hopefully the
    >> above will help others decide if this printer is of interest to
    >> them...
    >
    >
    > Am I correct in assuming that one could relatively easily turn off the
    > color printing and force it to work monochrome most of the time to get
    > cheaper pages? Only turn on the color when necessary? I see Dell
    > claims 1.5c/page black and 12.5c/page color.
    >
    > And if the color sat unused for a week or two at a time would it still
    > work or would that cause problems as with an ink jet? I never had
    > trouble with a monochrome toner caking or something, but have no
    > experience with color toners.
    >
    > Thanks...
    >
    > Bill
  9. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Free Printer Guy wrote:
    > Bill,
    >
    > How many color prints will you be making per month?
    >
    > Dennis

    Not many. A dozen maybe? Simple charts and graphs type stuff, not
    photos or anything.

    Bill
  10. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I've got to admit the Dell looks like quite a nice printer. If they
    also sold it in a multifunction model I'd buy it tomorrow I think.

    As it is, I'll anguish over it for awhile until the price comes back
    down I suppose.

    Thanks for the info Coup.

    (Curiously, I don't see anyone selling the color laser engines in a
    multifunction format yet. I suppose they want to get some field
    experience with the color print engine itself first. Surely they're
    bolting parts together in the back room even now though.)

    Bill
  11. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
    wrote in message news:rZMLd.6426$Ix.5654@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > I've got to admit the Dell looks like quite a nice printer. If they
    > also sold it in a multifunction model I'd buy it tomorrow I think.
    >
    > As it is, I'll anguish over it for awhile until the price comes back
    > down I suppose.
    >
    > Thanks for the info Coup.
    >
    > (Curiously, I don't see anyone selling the color laser engines in a
    > multifunction format yet. I suppose they want to get some field
    > experience with the color print engine itself first. Surely they're
    > bolting parts together in the back room even now though.)
    >
    > Bill

    There are several Multifunction color lasers on the market. You're just
    looking in the wrong place. Look under "Networkable Color Copiers". Xerox,
    Canon, Minolta, etc.

    BTW- I just bought a Canon Imagepass 3200. Now that's quite a machine. up
    to 11x17, ps3 and a Fiery RIP. Prints, copies, faxes, scans and creates
    ..pdf files.

    Mark
  12. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:28:53 -0500, "Mark" <marklb@bogus.net> wrote:

    >

    >BTW- I just bought a Canon Imagepass 3200. Now that's quite a machine. up
    >to 11x17, ps3 and a Fiery RIP. Prints, copies, faxes, scans and creates
    >.pdf files.
    >
    >Mark
    >

    LOL aside from the space such a beast would take up here...I'd lust
    after one of those too... but somehow I think you've gone over the
    $400 budget I set myself ;-)
  13. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Mark wrote:

    > There are several Multifunction color lasers on the market. You're just
    > looking in the wrong place. Look under "Networkable Color Copiers". Xerox,
    > Canon, Minolta, etc.
    >
    > BTW- I just bought a Canon Imagepass 3200. Now that's quite a machine. up
    > to 11x17, ps3 and a Fiery RIP. Prints, copies, faxes, scans and creates
    > .pdf files.

    ----------------------

    You mean you bought an ImageRunner perhaps? That's the only 3200 model
    I see on Canon's web site. Anything in that class is *waaaay* out of my
    range. Canon won't even quote a price on it on their web pages -- must
    see the dealer. Like they say, "If you have to ask the price, you can't
    afford it." Even if I could afford it, the thing won't fit on my desk!

    I'm looking for a little desk top color laser copier multifunction.

    Bill
  14. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
    wrote in message news:2EOLd.5048$S3.1138@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > Mark wrote:
    >
    > > There are several Multifunction color lasers on the market. You're just
    > > looking in the wrong place. Look under "Networkable Color Copiers".
    Xerox,
    > > Canon, Minolta, etc.
    > >
    > > BTW- I just bought a Canon Imagepass 3200. Now that's quite a machine.
    up
    > > to 11x17, ps3 and a Fiery RIP. Prints, copies, faxes, scans and creates
    > > .pdf files.
    >
    > ----------------------
    >
    > You mean you bought an ImageRunner perhaps? That's the only 3200 model
    > I see on Canon's web site. Anything in that class is *waaaay* out of my
    > range. Canon won't even quote a price on it on their web pages -- must
    > see the dealer. Like they say, "If you have to ask the price, you can't
    > afford it." Even if I could afford it, the thing won't fit on my desk!
    >
    > I'm looking for a little desk top color laser copier multifunction.
    >
    > Bill

    You're right, it is an imageRunner. For some reason though it shows up on
    the network as imagePass. And really, as far as copiers go, it's not that
    big, but it won't fit on a desktop.

    With all the extras (Fiery RIP, scan to network folder, Collater, Fax, etc)
    is was about $15k.

    Mark
  15. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:07:18 -0500, "Mark" <marklb@bogus.net> wrote:

    >You're right, it is an imageRunner. For some reason though it shows up on
    >the network as imagePass. And really, as far as copiers go, it's not that
    >big, but it won't fit on a desktop.
    >
    >With all the extras (Fiery RIP, scan to network folder, Collater, Fax, etc)
    >is was about $15k.

    <http://www.loyal.net/copiers/copiers/iRc3200.htm> has it for
    $11,940.00

    It appears that ImageRunner is the copier, and ImagePass is the
    network interface.

    jc
  16. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Mark wrote:

    > With all the extras (Fiery RIP, scan to network folder, Collater, Fax, etc)
    > is was about $15k.

    I bought my current Dell computer new for $400. It would probably quit
    in indignation if I spent $15K for a printer!

    Bill
  17. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
    wrote in message news:CYRLd.5206$S3.2174@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > Mark wrote:
    >
    > > With all the extras (Fiery RIP, scan to network folder, Collater, Fax,
    etc)
    > > is was about $15k.
    >
    > I bought my current Dell computer new for $400. It would probably quit
    > in indignation if I spent $15K for a printer!
    >
    > Bill

    LOL!!
  18. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I smell a Xerox deal hatching ;-)

    Art

    Free Printer Guy wrote:

    > Bill,
    >
    > How many color prints will you be making per month?
    >
    > Dennis
    >
    >
    > Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:
    >
    >>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
    >>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
    >>photos or something.
    >>
    >>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or
    >
    > do
    >
    >>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
    >>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it
    >
    > for
    >
    >>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
    >
    >
    >>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep
    >
    > them
    >
    >>running well.
    >>
    >>Bill
    >
    >
  19. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Well, I think they are called color photocopiers, and they are big and
    costly to make, not to mention they don't want to cut into that market,
    which is probably were most of the money is.

    In general, color photocopiers have less costly toner cartridges, but
    the initial cost of the units are considerably higher.

    Art

    Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:

    > I've got to admit the Dell looks like quite a nice printer. If they
    > also sold it in a multifunction model I'd buy it tomorrow I think.
    >
    > As it is, I'll anguish over it for awhile until the price comes back
    > down I suppose.
    >
    > Thanks for the info Coup.
    >
    > (Curiously, I don't see anyone selling the color laser engines in a
    > multifunction format yet. I suppose they want to get some field
    > experience with the color print engine itself first. Surely they're
    > bolting parts together in the back room even now though.)
    >
    > Bill
  20. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:
    > Well, I think they are called color photocopiers, and they are big and
    > costly to make, not to mention they don't want to cut into that market,
    > which is probably were most of the money is.
    >
    > In general, color photocopiers have less costly toner cartridges, but
    > the initial cost of the units are considerably higher.
    >
    > Art

    ----------------

    A few years back I could have said the same about mono photocopiers.
    Big expensive production machines you'd never have on your desk. Now
    you do, and given the cheap print engine it's fairly trivial to add a
    scanner and fax interface at very moderate extra expense. Which they've
    been doing for some time now.

    Do you see any reason at all that color laser printers won't follow
    exactly the same trajectory? They've already cost/size reduced the
    print engine to sit on your desk. Integrating a scanner/fax is
    technologically trivial at this point if they see a market for it.

    I've got to believe it's on their product road maps. They just need to
    get the simple color laser printer out the door first.

    Frankly I'd be surprised if color laser multifunctions don't come out
    soon and drive the monos off the market.

    Bill
  21. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:26:08 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >Coup wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:35:02 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Any idea who is making it for Dell?
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> Art .. you're getting bleary-eyed...lol Reread my #1 below that you
    >> quoted in your question ;-)
    >>
    >
    >I am indeed bleary-eyed... I was up for about 36 hours at that point...
    >and you are right, I missed it. I read everything but that last
    >sentence, where you went into them not being Lexmarks.
    >
    >The Fuji-Xerox printers have received some interest as perhaps a good
    >association between the two companies and their technologies.
    >
    >I'm going to have to ask around for some print samples, as good as your
    >description is, it is hard to qualify an image production device without
    >seeing output.
    >
    >I'll have to research it... however, why the heck is it so large? 17" x
    >17" x 30" high? wow.
    >
    >Art

    Actually, I was exaggerating it turns out, the 3100cn is 17' x 17" x
    22" high. The 3100cn adds the extra paper tray underneath that adds 4"
    to it. Adding the available duplexer to it probably creates something
    approaching the 30" tower.

    Other weirdness (you have to wonder about the though processes that
    results in some of this):

    The 3000cn is 4" lower, missing the 250 sheet paper tray, but the
    3100cn CANNOT BE OPERATED WITHOUT THE TRAY.

    The 3100cn is actually about 73 lbs vs 56 for the 3000, virtually the
    whole difference is the paper tray which is one hunk of a piece of
    mostly metal....so most everything on this printer is built like a
    tank... except

    The fold out "support/stop flap" on the output tray at the top
    couldn't possibly be any thinner or more flimsy plastic... this seems
    to be becoming a 'tradition' with just about ever maker of printers...
    is there some 'secret protocol' all printer companies have subscribed
    to about this sort of thing? God forbid they add 2 oz. to the weight
    and make this part out of stamped metal...
  22. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In message <PH7Md.6033$S3.689@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Bill
    Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\" from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
    writes
    >
    >Do you see any reason at all that color laser printers won't follow
    >exactly the same trajectory? They've already cost/size reduced the
    >print engine to sit on your desk. Integrating a scanner/fax is
    >technologically trivial at this point if they see a market for it.
    >
    >I've got to believe it's on their product road maps. They just need to
    >get the simple color laser printer out the door first.
    >
    >Frankly I'd be surprised if color laser multifunctions don't come out
    >soon and drive the monos off the market.
    >
    I've been looking at this sort of thing and currently I reckon its
    cheaper to buy a multifunction A3 (approx 11" x 17") mono and an A3
    colour laser for less than the equivalent multifunction colour A3.

    --
    Timothy Lee http://www.wightproperty.com
    tlatwightpropertydotcom
  23. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Actually, I do see several reasons they will not be here soon.

    First off, color inkjet multifunction machines are very inexpensive to
    make, are lightweight, and there target market is low volume users.

    Color laser printers are big, and expensive to make. To reduce the
    size, and add a scanner will require smaller toner cartridges. For low
    volume users, it makes no sense. For larger volume users, the market
    provides color photocopiers at considerably higher costs.

    I see color photocopiers coming down in cost only if the manufacturers
    go to a costly refilling system, like color laser printers. To do so,
    requires a large enough demand, because the machines are still costly to
    make. If they can't sell a LOT of very overpriced color toner
    cartridges, simply put, they cannot afford to lower the cost of the copiers.

    Since even relatively small toner cartridges provide thousands of copies
    at 5% coverage, for small volume users, the manufacturers would end up
    selling these machines at near cost, and never sell refill cartridges.

    Large volume users will buy them only because they save money on
    consumables, which means the price of the machines have to stay up to
    pay for the cost of the machines.

    I could be wrong. I never expected inkjet color printing to come to
    anything more than a short transition to color laser... obviously that
    was way off base. Don't bet the farm on my predictions, but for now, at
    least, I think you may not be seeing these all in one color laser based
    machines at reasonable costs for years to come.

    Art

    Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:

    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> Well, I think they are called color photocopiers, and they are big and
    >> costly to make, not to mention they don't want to cut into that
    >> market, which is probably were most of the money is.
    >>
    >> In general, color photocopiers have less costly toner cartridges, but
    >> the initial cost of the units are considerably higher.
    >>
    >> Art
    >
    >
    > ----------------
    >
    > A few years back I could have said the same about mono photocopiers. Big
    > expensive production machines you'd never have on your desk. Now you
    > do, and given the cheap print engine it's fairly trivial to add a
    > scanner and fax interface at very moderate extra expense. Which they've
    > been doing for some time now.
    >
    > Do you see any reason at all that color laser printers won't follow
    > exactly the same trajectory? They've already cost/size reduced the
    > print engine to sit on your desk. Integrating a scanner/fax is
    > technologically trivial at this point if they see a market for it.
    >
    > I've got to believe it's on their product road maps. They just need to
    > get the simple color laser printer out the door first.
    >
    > Frankly I'd be surprised if color laser multifunctions don't come out
    > soon and drive the monos off the market.
    >
    > Bill
  24. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    But then you'd never have to buy a new part... those little flaps are
    only available from Dell for $300 each! ;-)

    Art


    Coup wrote:


    > The fold out "support/stop flap" on the output tray at the top
    > couldn't possibly be any thinner or more flimsy plastic... this seems
    > to be becoming a 'tradition' with just about ever maker of printers...
    > is there some 'secret protocol' all printer companies have subscribed
    > to about this sort of thing? God forbid they add 2 oz. to the weight
    > and make this part out of stamped metal...
    >
    >
  25. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:
    > Actually, I do see several reasons they will not be here soon.
    >
    > First off, color inkjet multifunction machines are very inexpensive to
    > make, are lightweight, and there target market is low volume users.
    >
    > Color laser printers are big, and expensive to make. To reduce the
    > size, and add a scanner will require smaller toner cartridges. For low
    > volume users, it makes no sense. For larger volume users, the market
    > provides color photocopiers at considerably higher costs.

    Perhaps you're missing the point that cheap color laser printers are
    *already* here? As Coup said, on a good sale you can buy one from Dell
    for $275. The real question is simply how long it takes to bolt a
    scanner on the top of it. They already do it with mono laser
    multifunctions.

    Bill
  26. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:26:08 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
    wrote:


    >The Fuji-Xerox printers have received some interest as perhaps a good
    >association between the two companies and their technologies.
    >
    >I'm going to have to ask around for some print samples, as good as your
    >description is, it is hard to qualify an image production device without
    >seeing output.
    >
    >I'll have to research it... however, why the heck is it so large? 17" x
    >17" x 30" high? wow.
    >
    >Art
    >
    I've just installed 3 of the Dell 5100cn which is the bigger brother
    of the 3100. The printer is big and bulky but my back is telling me
    that it is lighter than an HP4600. Compare to the HP 4500 or even the
    HP 4600 the Dell is much more quiet, in fact these were installed as
    personal printers which mean they are within 5 feet of the users and
    it is even less noisy than an HP4200 it replaced.

    If you have ever waited for an 4500 to warm up you'll be delighted
    with how fast the Dell came out of power save mode. The first page
    came out under 30 seconds. I only printed a couple of test pages and
    some web pages so don't have an informed opinion of the output quality
    but my quick impression is that the color saturation and glossiness is
    more like the 4500, which I prefer, than the 4600.
  27. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:31:56 -0600, VH <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:26:08 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
    >wrote:
    >
    >
    >>The Fuji-Xerox printers have received some interest as perhaps a good
    >>association between the two companies and their technologies.
    >>
    >>I'm going to have to ask around for some print samples, as good as your
    >>description is, it is hard to qualify an image production device without
    >>seeing output.
    >>
    >>I'll have to research it... however, why the heck is it so large? 17" x
    >>17" x 30" high? wow.
    >>
    >>Art
    >>
    >I've just installed 3 of the Dell 5100cn which is the bigger brother
    >of the 3100. The printer is big and bulky but my back is telling me
    >that it is lighter than an HP4600. Compare to the HP 4500 or even the
    >HP 4600 the Dell is much more quiet, in fact these were installed as
    >personal printers which mean they are within 5 feet of the users and
    >it is even less noisy than an HP4200 it replaced.
    >
    >If you have ever waited for an 4500 to warm up you'll be delighted
    >with how fast the Dell came out of power save mode. The first page
    >came out under 30 seconds. I only printed a couple of test pages and
    >some web pages so don't have an informed opinion of the output quality
    >but my quick impression is that the color saturation and glossiness is
    >more like the 4500, which I prefer, than the 4600.

    Absolutely. The 3000/3100 come out of sleep mode amazingly fast. I was
    reminded of this yesterday watching a Minolta 2300 take around 85
    seconds to do this, my 3100 takes about 15 secs.. Btw the new Dells
    are utterly silent in sleep mode... I immediately set mine to enter
    sleep mode in 2 mins... there's virtually no penalty for running it
    this way...
  28. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Hi Bill,

    No, I don't believe I missed the point you are making, but you may have
    misunderstood mine. I have been in the market for a color laser, so I
    fully aware of the prices. I have looked at several in the $350-500 CAN
    price range. They still are relatively bulky, heavy and costly to make.
    Adding a scanner on top will make them bigger and bulkier, and I don't
    know that people will want them who use these type of products in home
    environments. The inkjets can be sold this way because they cost
    considerably less to make and ship and they sell them by the shipload
    due to the price, which keeps the costs down. The color lasers selling
    for so little suddenly is due to the "new" business model they are
    using... you pay via the toner. (sound familiar)

    In order to make money on these laser printers, the manufacturers have
    to sell replacement toner cartridges. Otherwise, they probably barely
    break even, considering shipping costs and real costs of the product.
    While inkjet printers used in all in one machines are made up of mainly
    plastic, costing little in quantity production, the complexity and
    amount of more valuable raw materials makes the color laser printer much
    more costly to produce, to set up and to repair.

    As I see it, if they introduce color laser all in ones cheaply
    (basically replacing color photocopiers) they will KILL the inkjet all
    in one market and they will dampen the color photocopier market
    considerably.

    It will soon become clear to people who buy all in one copiers that the
    color laser is faster, and makes a more durable print. The cost per
    print is also going to be cheaper, especially with the starter
    cartridges given with the printer (unless they short them even further).
    People who would have bought the inkjet versions, will migrate to the
    color laser versions, and use them until the toner runs out. At that
    time, they will have received the equivalent of 3-4 ink refills in
    quantity of prints, comfortably paying for the additional cost of the
    printer, and the company will have no financial return on them. Those
    buyers are not likely to get replacement cartridges, because 1) they
    will probably not need a refill based upon volume for several years, and
    2) Because the cost of the toner cartridges is relatively much higher on
    refill.

    The other market will be people who have offices, schools, and such, and
    need a easy to operate color laser photocopier, and would have purchased
    a more costly one, since currently that's what's out there. Those sales
    will slack off as well. These larger volume users may buy replacement
    toners, or find generic refills.

    If you have ever looked inside a color laser printer, you will have
    noticed how much more durable they are designed and how much more guts
    are involved versus a inkjet. The paper handling alone is much more
    complex. I would gather the profit margin in those machines is small,
    at $350 CAN, or $295 US with toner. Their only hope is to sell you more
    toner down the road. Already, I have noticed that many of the big box
    stores carrying the color laser printers don't carry the toner at all or
    only keep it on hand for a few months until the printer is off the
    market. This leaves people either buying direct for the manufacturer,
    which I'm sure they like, since the profit is higher and no discounts,
    or they buy generic toner and have it refilled.

    As the initial value and cost of the item goes up, this pay as you go
    concept becomes a longer and longer payback, and companies don't like
    that. It would be like getting a car for cost or less with the hopes
    the gas purchases would manufacture the profits. Probably could be
    done, but the time to do it would be too long in the future.

    As I said, I'm just one guy, with one set of beliefs about these
    logistic, but I could be wrong... maybe an "all in one color laser" is
    about to be released for $400, who knows. In the end with these
    products it is all about the consumables.

    Art

    Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:

    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> Actually, I do see several reasons they will not be here soon.
    >>
    >> First off, color inkjet multifunction machines are very inexpensive to
    >> make, are lightweight, and there target market is low volume users.
    >>
    >> Color laser printers are big, and expensive to make. To reduce the
    >> size, and add a scanner will require smaller toner cartridges. For
    >> low volume users, it makes no sense. For larger volume users, the
    >> market provides color photocopiers at considerably higher costs.
    >
    >
    > Perhaps you're missing the point that cheap color laser printers are
    > *already* here? As Coup said, on a good sale you can buy one from Dell
    > for $275. The real question is simply how long it takes to bolt a
    > scanner on the top of it. They already do it with mono laser
    > multifunctions.
    >
    > Bill
  29. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:34:31 -0500, Yikes!ItsIke
    <Yikes!ItsIke@younameit.com> wrote:

    >On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:11:09 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
    >from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:
    >
    >>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
    >>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
    >>photos or something.
    >>
    >>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
    >>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
    >>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
    >>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
    >>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
    >>running well.
    >>
    >>Bill
    >
    >
    >HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
    >Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
    >will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
    >old one.
    >Is this progress?
    >
    Would just like to respectfully disagree that "it's cheaper to buy a
    new one..." (at least in 'many cases)".

    What MANY (MOST???) of the manufacturers seem to do is supply 'starter
    toner cartridges' that may have only enough toner in them to print (at
    std coverages) only perhaps 20%-30% of what you can/should get with
    'normal' cartridges'. (Eg. maybe 1000-1500 pages instead of 5000).

    One needs to do one's 'homework' and check this carefully before
    buying ANY color laser to see what actually 'comes with it'.
  30. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    We are very happy with our Magicolor 2300DL and the toners last forever. We
    buy the high capacity toners.


    "HammerToe" <HammerToe@online.com> wrote in message
    news:71uo11pdpr012agqrfrair8lt5u2d1hcbv@4ax.com...
    > On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:34:31 -0500, Yikes!ItsIke
    > <Yikes!ItsIke@younameit.com> wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:11:09 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
    >>from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
    >>>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
    >>>photos or something.
    >>>
    >>>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
    >>>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
    >>>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
    >>>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
    >>>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
    >>>running well.
    >>>
    >>>Bill
    >>
    >>
    >>HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
    >>Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
    >>will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
    >>old one.
    >>Is this progress?
    >>
    > Would just like to respectfully disagree that "it's cheaper to buy a
    > new one..." (at least in 'many cases)".
    >
    > What MANY (MOST???) of the manufacturers seem to do is supply 'starter
    > toner cartridges' that may have only enough toner in them to print (at
    > std coverages) only perhaps 20%-30% of what you can/should get with
    > 'normal' cartridges'. (Eg. maybe 1000-1500 pages instead of 5000).
    >
    > One needs to do one's 'homework' and check this carefully before
    > buying ANY color laser to see what actually 'comes with it'.
    >
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