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Color Laser

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Anonymous
January 31, 2005 9:11:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
photos or something.

I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
running well.

Bill

More about : color laser

Anonymous
January 31, 2005 9:34:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:11:09 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:

>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
>photos or something.
>
>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
>running well.
>
>Bill


HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
old one.
Is this progress?


Want to Fix Something?

http://www.manuals4you.com
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 9:34:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:34:31 -0500, Yikes!ItsIke
<Yikes!ItsIke@younameit.com> found these unused words floating about:

>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:11:09 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
>from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
>>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
>>photos or something.
>>
>>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
>>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
>>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
>>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
>>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
>>running well.
>>
>>Bill
>
>
>HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
>Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
>will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
>old one.
>Is this progress?
>
>
It's what the inkjunks have been doing for years ... !
Related resources
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 4:46:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Coup wrote:

> Overall I'm so far quite satisfied with the 3100cn.. hopefully the
> above will help others decide if this printer is of interest to
> them...

Am I correct in assuming that one could relatively easily turn off the
color printing and force it to work monochrome most of the time to get
cheaper pages? Only turn on the color when necessary? I see Dell
claims 1.5c/page black and 12.5c/page color.

And if the color sat unused for a week or two at a time would it still
work or would that cause problems as with an ink jet? I never had
trouble with a monochrome toner caking or something, but have no
experience with color toners.

Thanks...

Bill
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 7:37:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Bill,

How many color prints will you be making per month?

Dennis


Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:
> Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
> color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
> photos or something.
>
> I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or
do
> they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
> black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it
for
> the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to

> ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep
them
> running well.
>
> Bill
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 7:39:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

How many color prints will you need to make each month ?
February 1, 2005 7:43:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 01:46:17 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:

>Coup wrote:
>
>> Overall I'm so far quite satisfied with the 3100cn.. hopefully the
>> above will help others decide if this printer is of interest to
>> them...
>
>Am I correct in assuming that one could relatively easily turn off the
>color printing and force it to work monochrome most of the time to get
>cheaper pages? Only turn on the color when necessary? I see Dell
>claims 1.5c/page black and 12.5c/page color.

Yes. There are 2 settings you make in the driver setup to force the
printer to ONLY use the black toner, this not only saves money, the
printer no longer cycles thru the 4 engines and the speed switches
from the nominal 5 ppm to the 21 rated for monochrome. As suggested in
the Dell Support Bulletin Board, many simply create a second instance
of the printer driver with these settings, rename it 3100 Monochrome
and use that when doing simple text runs....
>
>And if the color sat unused for a week or two at a time would it still
>work or would that cause problems as with an ink jet? I never had
>trouble with a monochrome toner caking or something, but have no
>experience with color toners.

Color toner acts the same as black toner, color lasers will act like a
monochrome laser... ignore it for two months, turn it on, use
it...period..... The only real issue with disuse is actually the
paper... over long periods of time (months) depending upon the
environment (temperature/humidity) the characteristics of the paper
will change. Some will dry out, others may even absorb moisture...
this can cause jamming and adherence issues for the toner... similar
to what happens with copiers too. Also, note that inkjet papers
should NEVER be used with a color laser (or copier for that matter).
Inkjet papers are designed to allow controlled absorbtion of liquid
inks... most of these coatings will leave deposits on a color laser
drum that will foul them. In addition they inhibit the fusing of laser
toner to the surface of the paper. You can use plain copy paper
although color/photographic results will be less than optimum or color
laser papers which are deliberately made with super-smooth surfaces
designed to allow optimum fusing of the toner to the surface.
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 11:58:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
> Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
> will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
> old one.
> Is this progress?

It's typical of the usual HP ripoff. They've been waving two fingers
at the paying customers for years over the cost of consumables, and
the mugs smile happily at them while they're doing it :( 

Takes all sorts I suppose ...


Bloggy
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 3:38:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Most color laser printers have a mono mode that just uses the black
toner. I see no reason why there would be a problem in leaving the
color toners unused for several weeks.

In general, from looking at the expendable of several color laser
printers, the black toner is cheaper than the color and often has more
toner in the cartridge, but it often still costs more than a black toner
from a monochrome only printer.

Art

Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:

> Coup wrote:
>
>> Overall I'm so far quite satisfied with the 3100cn.. hopefully the
>> above will help others decide if this printer is of interest to
>> them...
>
>
> Am I correct in assuming that one could relatively easily turn off the
> color printing and force it to work monochrome most of the time to get
> cheaper pages? Only turn on the color when necessary? I see Dell
> claims 1.5c/page black and 12.5c/page color.
>
> And if the color sat unused for a week or two at a time would it still
> work or would that cause problems as with an ink jet? I never had
> trouble with a monochrome toner caking or something, but have no
> experience with color toners.
>
> Thanks...
>
> Bill
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 5:22:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Free Printer Guy wrote:
> Bill,
>
> How many color prints will you be making per month?
>
> Dennis

Not many. A dozen maybe? Simple charts and graphs type stuff, not
photos or anything.

Bill
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 6:10:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I've got to admit the Dell looks like quite a nice printer. If they
also sold it in a multifunction model I'd buy it tomorrow I think.

As it is, I'll anguish over it for awhile until the price comes back
down I suppose.

Thanks for the info Coup.

(Curiously, I don't see anyone selling the color laser engines in a
multifunction format yet. I suppose they want to get some field
experience with the color print engine itself first. Surely they're
bolting parts together in the back room even now though.)

Bill
February 1, 2005 6:10:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
wrote in message news:rZMLd.6426$Ix.5654@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I've got to admit the Dell looks like quite a nice printer. If they
> also sold it in a multifunction model I'd buy it tomorrow I think.
>
> As it is, I'll anguish over it for awhile until the price comes back
> down I suppose.
>
> Thanks for the info Coup.
>
> (Curiously, I don't see anyone selling the color laser engines in a
> multifunction format yet. I suppose they want to get some field
> experience with the color print engine itself first. Surely they're
> bolting parts together in the back room even now though.)
>
> Bill

There are several Multifunction color lasers on the market. You're just
looking in the wrong place. Look under "Networkable Color Copiers". Xerox,
Canon, Minolta, etc.

BTW- I just bought a Canon Imagepass 3200. Now that's quite a machine. up
to 11x17, ps3 and a Fiery RIP. Prints, copies, faxes, scans and creates
..pdf files.

Mark
February 1, 2005 6:34:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:28:53 -0500, "Mark" <marklb@bogus.net> wrote:

>

>BTW- I just bought a Canon Imagepass 3200. Now that's quite a machine. up
>to 11x17, ps3 and a Fiery RIP. Prints, copies, faxes, scans and creates
>.pdf files.
>
>Mark
>

LOL aside from the space such a beast would take up here...I'd lust
after one of those too... but somehow I think you've gone over the
$400 budget I set myself ;-)
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 8:03:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mark wrote:

> There are several Multifunction color lasers on the market. You're just
> looking in the wrong place. Look under "Networkable Color Copiers". Xerox,
> Canon, Minolta, etc.
>
> BTW- I just bought a Canon Imagepass 3200. Now that's quite a machine. up
> to 11x17, ps3 and a Fiery RIP. Prints, copies, faxes, scans and creates
> .pdf files.

----------------------

You mean you bought an ImageRunner perhaps? That's the only 3200 model
I see on Canon's web site. Anything in that class is *waaaay* out of my
range. Canon won't even quote a price on it on their web pages -- must
see the dealer. Like they say, "If you have to ask the price, you can't
afford it." Even if I could afford it, the thing won't fit on my desk!

I'm looking for a little desk top color laser copier multifunction.

Bill
February 1, 2005 8:03:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
wrote in message news:2EOLd.5048$S3.1138@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Mark wrote:
>
> > There are several Multifunction color lasers on the market. You're just
> > looking in the wrong place. Look under "Networkable Color Copiers".
Xerox,
> > Canon, Minolta, etc.
> >
> > BTW- I just bought a Canon Imagepass 3200. Now that's quite a machine.
up
> > to 11x17, ps3 and a Fiery RIP. Prints, copies, faxes, scans and creates
> > .pdf files.
>
> ----------------------
>
> You mean you bought an ImageRunner perhaps? That's the only 3200 model
> I see on Canon's web site. Anything in that class is *waaaay* out of my
> range. Canon won't even quote a price on it on their web pages -- must
> see the dealer. Like they say, "If you have to ask the price, you can't
> afford it." Even if I could afford it, the thing won't fit on my desk!
>
> I'm looking for a little desk top color laser copier multifunction.
>
> Bill

You're right, it is an imageRunner. For some reason though it shows up on
the network as imagePass. And really, as far as copiers go, it's not that
big, but it won't fit on a desktop.

With all the extras (Fiery RIP, scan to network folder, Collater, Fax, etc)
is was about $15k.

Mark
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 11:07:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:07:18 -0500, "Mark" <marklb@bogus.net> wrote:

>You're right, it is an imageRunner. For some reason though it shows up on
>the network as imagePass. And really, as far as copiers go, it's not that
>big, but it won't fit on a desktop.
>
>With all the extras (Fiery RIP, scan to network folder, Collater, Fax, etc)
>is was about $15k.

<http://www.loyal.net/copiers/copiers/iRc3200.htm&gt; has it for
$11,940.00

It appears that ImageRunner is the copier, and ImagePass is the
network interface.

jc
Anonymous
February 1, 2005 11:50:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mark wrote:

> With all the extras (Fiery RIP, scan to network folder, Collater, Fax, etc)
> is was about $15k.

I bought my current Dell computer new for $400. It would probably quit
in indignation if I spent $15K for a printer!

Bill
February 2, 2005 12:02:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
wrote in message news:CYRLd.5206$S3.2174@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Mark wrote:
>
> > With all the extras (Fiery RIP, scan to network folder, Collater, Fax,
etc)
> > is was about $15k.
>
> I bought my current Dell computer new for $400. It would probably quit
> in indignation if I spent $15K for a printer!
>
> Bill

LOL!!
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 5:17:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I smell a Xerox deal hatching ;-)

Art

Free Printer Guy wrote:

> Bill,
>
> How many color prints will you be making per month?
>
> Dennis
>
>
> Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:
>
>>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
>>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
>>photos or something.
>>
>>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or
>
> do
>
>>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
>>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it
>
> for
>
>>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
>
>
>>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep
>
> them
>
>>running well.
>>
>>Bill
>
>
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 5:28:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Well, I think they are called color photocopiers, and they are big and
costly to make, not to mention they don't want to cut into that market,
which is probably were most of the money is.

In general, color photocopiers have less costly toner cartridges, but
the initial cost of the units are considerably higher.

Art

Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:

> I've got to admit the Dell looks like quite a nice printer. If they
> also sold it in a multifunction model I'd buy it tomorrow I think.
>
> As it is, I'll anguish over it for awhile until the price comes back
> down I suppose.
>
> Thanks for the info Coup.
>
> (Curiously, I don't see anyone selling the color laser engines in a
> multifunction format yet. I suppose they want to get some field
> experience with the color print engine itself first. Surely they're
> bolting parts together in the back room even now though.)
>
> Bill
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 8:01:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:
> Well, I think they are called color photocopiers, and they are big and
> costly to make, not to mention they don't want to cut into that market,
> which is probably were most of the money is.
>
> In general, color photocopiers have less costly toner cartridges, but
> the initial cost of the units are considerably higher.
>
> Art

----------------

A few years back I could have said the same about mono photocopiers.
Big expensive production machines you'd never have on your desk. Now
you do, and given the cheap print engine it's fairly trivial to add a
scanner and fax interface at very moderate extra expense. Which they've
been doing for some time now.

Do you see any reason at all that color laser printers won't follow
exactly the same trajectory? They've already cost/size reduced the
print engine to sit on your desk. Integrating a scanner/fax is
technologically trivial at this point if they see a market for it.

I've got to believe it's on their product road maps. They just need to
get the simple color laser printer out the door first.

Frankly I'd be surprised if color laser multifunctions don't come out
soon and drive the monos off the market.

Bill
February 2, 2005 10:24:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:26:08 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
wrote:

>
>
>Coup wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 12:35:02 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Any idea who is making it for Dell?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Art .. you're getting bleary-eyed...lol Reread my #1 below that you
>> quoted in your question ;-)
>>
>
>I am indeed bleary-eyed... I was up for about 36 hours at that point...
>and you are right, I missed it. I read everything but that last
>sentence, where you went into them not being Lexmarks.
>
>The Fuji-Xerox printers have received some interest as perhaps a good
>association between the two companies and their technologies.
>
>I'm going to have to ask around for some print samples, as good as your
>description is, it is hard to qualify an image production device without
>seeing output.
>
>I'll have to research it... however, why the heck is it so large? 17" x
>17" x 30" high? wow.
>
>Art

Actually, I was exaggerating it turns out, the 3100cn is 17' x 17" x
22" high. The 3100cn adds the extra paper tray underneath that adds 4"
to it. Adding the available duplexer to it probably creates something
approaching the 30" tower.

Other weirdness (you have to wonder about the though processes that
results in some of this):

The 3000cn is 4" lower, missing the 250 sheet paper tray, but the
3100cn CANNOT BE OPERATED WITHOUT THE TRAY.

The 3100cn is actually about 73 lbs vs 56 for the 3000, virtually the
whole difference is the paper tray which is one hunk of a piece of
mostly metal....so most everything on this printer is built like a
tank... except

The fold out "support/stop flap" on the output tray at the top
couldn't possibly be any thinner or more flimsy plastic... this seems
to be becoming a 'tradition' with just about ever maker of printers...
is there some 'secret protocol' all printer companies have subscribed
to about this sort of thing? God forbid they add 2 oz. to the weight
and make this part out of stamped metal...
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 3:26:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In message <PH7Md.6033$S3.689@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Bill
Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\" from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net>
writes
>
>Do you see any reason at all that color laser printers won't follow
>exactly the same trajectory? They've already cost/size reduced the
>print engine to sit on your desk. Integrating a scanner/fax is
>technologically trivial at this point if they see a market for it.
>
>I've got to believe it's on their product road maps. They just need to
>get the simple color laser printer out the door first.
>
>Frankly I'd be surprised if color laser multifunctions don't come out
>soon and drive the monos off the market.
>
I've been looking at this sort of thing and currently I reckon its
cheaper to buy a multifunction A3 (approx 11" x 17") mono and an A3
colour laser for less than the equivalent multifunction colour A3.

--
Timothy Lee http://www.wightproperty.com
tlatwightpropertydotcom
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 8:43:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Actually, I do see several reasons they will not be here soon.

First off, color inkjet multifunction machines are very inexpensive to
make, are lightweight, and there target market is low volume users.

Color laser printers are big, and expensive to make. To reduce the
size, and add a scanner will require smaller toner cartridges. For low
volume users, it makes no sense. For larger volume users, the market
provides color photocopiers at considerably higher costs.

I see color photocopiers coming down in cost only if the manufacturers
go to a costly refilling system, like color laser printers. To do so,
requires a large enough demand, because the machines are still costly to
make. If they can't sell a LOT of very overpriced color toner
cartridges, simply put, they cannot afford to lower the cost of the copiers.

Since even relatively small toner cartridges provide thousands of copies
at 5% coverage, for small volume users, the manufacturers would end up
selling these machines at near cost, and never sell refill cartridges.

Large volume users will buy them only because they save money on
consumables, which means the price of the machines have to stay up to
pay for the cost of the machines.

I could be wrong. I never expected inkjet color printing to come to
anything more than a short transition to color laser... obviously that
was way off base. Don't bet the farm on my predictions, but for now, at
least, I think you may not be seeing these all in one color laser based
machines at reasonable costs for years to come.

Art

Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:

> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> Well, I think they are called color photocopiers, and they are big and
>> costly to make, not to mention they don't want to cut into that
>> market, which is probably were most of the money is.
>>
>> In general, color photocopiers have less costly toner cartridges, but
>> the initial cost of the units are considerably higher.
>>
>> Art
>
>
> ----------------
>
> A few years back I could have said the same about mono photocopiers. Big
> expensive production machines you'd never have on your desk. Now you
> do, and given the cheap print engine it's fairly trivial to add a
> scanner and fax interface at very moderate extra expense. Which they've
> been doing for some time now.
>
> Do you see any reason at all that color laser printers won't follow
> exactly the same trajectory? They've already cost/size reduced the
> print engine to sit on your desk. Integrating a scanner/fax is
> technologically trivial at this point if they see a market for it.
>
> I've got to believe it's on their product road maps. They just need to
> get the simple color laser printer out the door first.
>
> Frankly I'd be surprised if color laser multifunctions don't come out
> soon and drive the monos off the market.
>
> Bill
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 8:46:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

But then you'd never have to buy a new part... those little flaps are
only available from Dell for $300 each! ;-)

Art


Coup wrote:


> The fold out "support/stop flap" on the output tray at the top
> couldn't possibly be any thinner or more flimsy plastic... this seems
> to be becoming a 'tradition' with just about ever maker of printers...
> is there some 'secret protocol' all printer companies have subscribed
> to about this sort of thing? God forbid they add 2 oz. to the weight
> and make this part out of stamped metal...
>
>
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 11:38:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:
> Actually, I do see several reasons they will not be here soon.
>
> First off, color inkjet multifunction machines are very inexpensive to
> make, are lightweight, and there target market is low volume users.
>
> Color laser printers are big, and expensive to make. To reduce the
> size, and add a scanner will require smaller toner cartridges. For low
> volume users, it makes no sense. For larger volume users, the market
> provides color photocopiers at considerably higher costs.

Perhaps you're missing the point that cheap color laser printers are
*already* here? As Coup said, on a good sale you can buy one from Dell
for $275. The real question is simply how long it takes to bolt a
scanner on the top of it. They already do it with mono laser
multifunctions.

Bill
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 1:31:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:26:08 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
wrote:


>The Fuji-Xerox printers have received some interest as perhaps a good
>association between the two companies and their technologies.
>
>I'm going to have to ask around for some print samples, as good as your
>description is, it is hard to qualify an image production device without
>seeing output.
>
>I'll have to research it... however, why the heck is it so large? 17" x
>17" x 30" high? wow.
>
>Art
>
I've just installed 3 of the Dell 5100cn which is the bigger brother
of the 3100. The printer is big and bulky but my back is telling me
that it is lighter than an HP4600. Compare to the HP 4500 or even the
HP 4600 the Dell is much more quiet, in fact these were installed as
personal printers which mean they are within 5 feet of the users and
it is even less noisy than an HP4200 it replaced.

If you have ever waited for an 4500 to warm up you'll be delighted
with how fast the Dell came out of power save mode. The first page
came out under 30 seconds. I only printed a couple of test pages and
some web pages so don't have an informed opinion of the output quality
but my quick impression is that the color saturation and glossiness is
more like the 4500, which I prefer, than the 4600.
February 4, 2005 11:07:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 22:31:56 -0600, VH <> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:26:08 GMT, Arthur Entlich <artistic@telus.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>The Fuji-Xerox printers have received some interest as perhaps a good
>>association between the two companies and their technologies.
>>
>>I'm going to have to ask around for some print samples, as good as your
>>description is, it is hard to qualify an image production device without
>>seeing output.
>>
>>I'll have to research it... however, why the heck is it so large? 17" x
>>17" x 30" high? wow.
>>
>>Art
>>
>I've just installed 3 of the Dell 5100cn which is the bigger brother
>of the 3100. The printer is big and bulky but my back is telling me
>that it is lighter than an HP4600. Compare to the HP 4500 or even the
>HP 4600 the Dell is much more quiet, in fact these were installed as
>personal printers which mean they are within 5 feet of the users and
>it is even less noisy than an HP4200 it replaced.
>
>If you have ever waited for an 4500 to warm up you'll be delighted
>with how fast the Dell came out of power save mode. The first page
>came out under 30 seconds. I only printed a couple of test pages and
>some web pages so don't have an informed opinion of the output quality
>but my quick impression is that the color saturation and glossiness is
>more like the 4500, which I prefer, than the 4600.

Absolutely. The 3000/3100 come out of sleep mode amazingly fast. I was
reminded of this yesterday watching a Minolta 2300 take around 85
seconds to do this, my 3100 takes about 15 secs.. Btw the new Dells
are utterly silent in sleep mode... I immediately set mine to enter
sleep mode in 2 mins... there's virtually no penalty for running it
this way...
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 3:11:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hi Bill,

No, I don't believe I missed the point you are making, but you may have
misunderstood mine. I have been in the market for a color laser, so I
fully aware of the prices. I have looked at several in the $350-500 CAN
price range. They still are relatively bulky, heavy and costly to make.
Adding a scanner on top will make them bigger and bulkier, and I don't
know that people will want them who use these type of products in home
environments. The inkjets can be sold this way because they cost
considerably less to make and ship and they sell them by the shipload
due to the price, which keeps the costs down. The color lasers selling
for so little suddenly is due to the "new" business model they are
using... you pay via the toner. (sound familiar)

In order to make money on these laser printers, the manufacturers have
to sell replacement toner cartridges. Otherwise, they probably barely
break even, considering shipping costs and real costs of the product.
While inkjet printers used in all in one machines are made up of mainly
plastic, costing little in quantity production, the complexity and
amount of more valuable raw materials makes the color laser printer much
more costly to produce, to set up and to repair.

As I see it, if they introduce color laser all in ones cheaply
(basically replacing color photocopiers) they will KILL the inkjet all
in one market and they will dampen the color photocopier market
considerably.

It will soon become clear to people who buy all in one copiers that the
color laser is faster, and makes a more durable print. The cost per
print is also going to be cheaper, especially with the starter
cartridges given with the printer (unless they short them even further).
People who would have bought the inkjet versions, will migrate to the
color laser versions, and use them until the toner runs out. At that
time, they will have received the equivalent of 3-4 ink refills in
quantity of prints, comfortably paying for the additional cost of the
printer, and the company will have no financial return on them. Those
buyers are not likely to get replacement cartridges, because 1) they
will probably not need a refill based upon volume for several years, and
2) Because the cost of the toner cartridges is relatively much higher on
refill.

The other market will be people who have offices, schools, and such, and
need a easy to operate color laser photocopier, and would have purchased
a more costly one, since currently that's what's out there. Those sales
will slack off as well. These larger volume users may buy replacement
toners, or find generic refills.

If you have ever looked inside a color laser printer, you will have
noticed how much more durable they are designed and how much more guts
are involved versus a inkjet. The paper handling alone is much more
complex. I would gather the profit margin in those machines is small,
at $350 CAN, or $295 US with toner. Their only hope is to sell you more
toner down the road. Already, I have noticed that many of the big box
stores carrying the color laser printers don't carry the toner at all or
only keep it on hand for a few months until the printer is off the
market. This leaves people either buying direct for the manufacturer,
which I'm sure they like, since the profit is higher and no discounts,
or they buy generic toner and have it refilled.

As the initial value and cost of the item goes up, this pay as you go
concept becomes a longer and longer payback, and companies don't like
that. It would be like getting a car for cost or less with the hopes
the gas purchases would manufacture the profits. Probably could be
done, but the time to do it would be too long in the future.

As I said, I'm just one guy, with one set of beliefs about these
logistic, but I could be wrong... maybe an "all in one color laser" is
about to be released for $400, who knows. In the end with these
products it is all about the consumables.

Art

Bill Martin -- Remove "NOSPAM" from address wrote:

> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> Actually, I do see several reasons they will not be here soon.
>>
>> First off, color inkjet multifunction machines are very inexpensive to
>> make, are lightweight, and there target market is low volume users.
>>
>> Color laser printers are big, and expensive to make. To reduce the
>> size, and add a scanner will require smaller toner cartridges. For
>> low volume users, it makes no sense. For larger volume users, the
>> market provides color photocopiers at considerably higher costs.
>
>
> Perhaps you're missing the point that cheap color laser printers are
> *already* here? As Coup said, on a good sale you can buy one from Dell
> for $275. The real question is simply how long it takes to bolt a
> scanner on the top of it. They already do it with mono laser
> multifunctions.
>
> Bill
Anonymous
February 23, 2005 3:37:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:34:31 -0500, Yikes!ItsIke
<Yikes!ItsIke@younameit.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:11:09 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
>from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
>>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
>>photos or something.
>>
>>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
>>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
>>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
>>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
>>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
>>running well.
>>
>>Bill
>
>
>HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
>Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
>will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
>old one.
>Is this progress?
>
Would just like to respectfully disagree that "it's cheaper to buy a
new one..." (at least in 'many cases)".

What MANY (MOST???) of the manufacturers seem to do is supply 'starter
toner cartridges' that may have only enough toner in them to print (at
std coverages) only perhaps 20%-30% of what you can/should get with
'normal' cartridges'. (Eg. maybe 1000-1500 pages instead of 5000).

One needs to do one's 'homework' and check this carefully before
buying ANY color laser to see what actually 'comes with it'.
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 1:27:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

We are very happy with our Magicolor 2300DL and the toners last forever. We
buy the high capacity toners.


"HammerToe" <HammerToe@online.com> wrote in message
news:71uo11pdpr012agqrfrair8lt5u2d1hcbv@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:34:31 -0500, Yikes!ItsIke
> <Yikes!ItsIke@younameit.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:11:09 GMT, "Bill Martin -- Remove \"NOSPAM\"
>>from address" <wylie@earthNOSPAMlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone have experience and/or recommendations on a relatively cheap
>>>color laser? I'm just looking to print text and color charts -- not
>>>photos or something.
>>>
>>>I've owned the black ones in the past. Are the color ones similar or do
>>>they require more tweaking, cleaning and maintenance than the older
>>>black only? With the black one I could pretty much forget about it for
>>>the 5,000 pages or so the toner cartridge could print. As opposed to
>>>ink jets where one seems to spend time cleaning them, etc., to keep them
>>>running well.
>>>
>>>Bill
>>
>>
>>HP has a Color LaserJet for $499 US. I think its the 1500 or the 2500.
>>Its a disposable printer. To purchase the 4 toner cartridges it takes
>>will cost you more than $499. You can just buy a new one and junk the
>>old one.
>>Is this progress?
>>
> Would just like to respectfully disagree that "it's cheaper to buy a
> new one..." (at least in 'many cases)".
>
> What MANY (MOST???) of the manufacturers seem to do is supply 'starter
> toner cartridges' that may have only enough toner in them to print (at
> std coverages) only perhaps 20%-30% of what you can/should get with
> 'normal' cartridges'. (Eg. maybe 1000-1500 pages instead of 5000).
>
> One needs to do one's 'homework' and check this carefully before
> buying ANY color laser to see what actually 'comes with it'.
>
!