Oddities while installing 98

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Hi guys (again),
I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.

I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it. We came
across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
1)Boot from start-up floppy
2)Switch to C:\
3)MD WIN98
4)CD F:\WIN98
5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
6)Remove Floppy
7)ctrl+alt+del
8)should boot from C:
9)CD WIN98
10)SETUP.

Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
It refused to recognise the F:drive.
(he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
been the F:\).
It kept saying there was no Fdrive.
I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was there.
I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to happen.
After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!

We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping well
doing what we asked it to.

help.

thanks,

regards Jane
29 answers Last reply
More about oddities installing
  1. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:eoMR56lFFHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > Hi guys (again),
    > I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.
    >
    > I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
    > We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it.

    *How* did you format it? With the /s switch? From inside Windows or from
    the floppy boot disk?

    >We came
    > across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
    > I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
    > 1)Boot from start-up floppy

    *With* CDROM support?

    > 2)Switch to C:\
    > 3)MD WIN98
    > 4)CD F:\WIN98
    > 5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
    > 6)Remove Floppy
    > 7)ctrl+alt+del
    > 8)should boot from C:
    > 9)CD WIN98
    > 10)SETUP.
    >
    > Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
    > It refused to recognise the F:drive.
    > (he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
    > Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
    > been the F:\).
    > It kept saying there was no Fdrive.

    The floppy boot system won't find a CD drive if you didn't start *with*
    CDROM support. If you did that, and it still doesn't find the CD drive,
    then the problem is that the CD drive is one that isn't supported by the
    default drivers that are loaded by the Startup disk with CDROM Support
    enabled. One of the most common reasons for this is if the CD drive is
    not a standard ATAPI/IDE or SCSI drive--like some of the really old
    Soundblaster drives that ran straight off the sound card. You have to
    determine the make/model of the CD drive, and how it's connected, and
    then alter the Startup floppy to load the proper drivers.

    However, from what you say below, my guess is that the Startup disk does
    support the CD drive and that you simply didn't enable CDROM support at
    startup. If you want to acess the CD drive, you need that support.

    > I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was there.
    > I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
    > Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to
    happen.
    > After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
    > time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
    > As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
    > a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
    > already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!

    Well, *is* there already a Windows system installed on the drive? Or on
    *any* drive that's attached and visible?

    >
    > We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
    > The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
    > was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping well
    > doing what we asked it to.

    Hey, it tries, but you have to give it the tools it needs, and the
    proper directions, if you want it to do what you want it to do, <s>.

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
  2. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    jane wrote:
    > Hi guys (again),
    > I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.
    >
    > I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
    > We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it. We came
    > across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
    > I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
    > 1)Boot from start-up floppy
    > 2)Switch to C:\
    > 3)MD WIN98
    > 4)CD F:\WIN98
    > 5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
    > 6)Remove Floppy
    > 7)ctrl+alt+del
    > 8)should boot from C:
    > 9)CD WIN98
    > 10)SETUP.
    >
    > Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
    > It refused to recognise the F:drive.
    > (he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
    > Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
    > been the F:\).
    > It kept saying there was no Fdrive.
    > I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was there.
    > I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
    > Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to
    happen.
    > After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
    > time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
    > As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
    > a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
    > already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!
    >
    > We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
    > The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
    > was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping
    well
    > doing what we asked it to.
    >
    > help.
    >
    > thanks,
    >
    > regards Jane

    In DOS you can't do your steps 3 to 4 like that. You must first switch
    drives to F:

    3) MD win98
    3a) F:
    4) CD WIN98

    would have put you at the CDROM's WIN98 folder to do the copy *.* from.
    You can't just change to any directory on any drive with one command
    line. It has to be drive change first and then to any folder on that
    drive.

    You should have been booting with CDROM support all along as you would
    never get an F: drive without doing that. The boot up process gives
    you a few hints about what's going on unless you are using a custom
    boot disk and not the standard 98 one. It should tell you what your
    ramdrive letter is and when Mscdex.exe loads it should also tell you
    what your CDROM letter is. Any errors would also show up as text while
    the boot disk grinds away. You could do DIR F: to see if the CDROM
    drive is working or not.

    It sounds like maybe you guys formatted the wrong hard drive? You
    can't install windows to the D: drive without some fancy doings that
    will only get in the way if disscused now. You'll have to format the
    C: drive and install Windows there or swap the drives around via their
    jumpers or BIOS boot order which should be A:, C:, whatever. Double
    check your boot order in the BIOS setup screens.

    1) boot floppy with CDROM support
    2) at A:> prompt do DIR C: to see what is on the hard drive first
    3) format c: /u /c
    4) c:
    5) md win98
    6) f:
    7) cd win98
    8) copy *.* c:\win98
    9) c:
    10) cd win98
    11) setup

    Your number 8 above is wrong and I don't know who told you that the
    hard drive would boot unless /s switch was part of the format command
    which I strongly advise newbies to never use. It's simply not needed
    and only causes grief and catastrophe to the understanding of what's
    really going on and which device is booting the machine. Unless you
    really want to be totally confused at this point, don't format with the
    /s switch or do a SYS C: command. Hope that gets you a little closer.
  3. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Ok very good, Rom is not the same as CDROM stop using one term for the
    other right away, and /s files is not what I said. /s switch when used
    with format command transfers system files to the formated hard drive
    and makes the hard drive bootable. SYS C: command will do the same
    thing. Avoid using either method to get the hard drive bootable
    because at this point you really don't have enough knowledge to discern
    exactly what device is booting the machine? And which device is doing
    the booting is very important for *US* to understand in order to avoid
    so many complications it boggles the mind, and eventually help you to
    your goal. Later when you've done this a couple of times, please use
    the /s switch and/or SYS C: and see what that does just for grins. For
    now please only boot with the standard 98 startup disk otherwise known
    as the 98 boot disk, because we all know how it boots and sets up the
    ramdrive and shifts the CDROM drive down one letter and exactly what
    prompts you will see in the process and can address those prompts when
    missing or different as they would be from any other booting device.

    If you don't have system files on the hard drive then it can't be
    booting the machine into DOS. And that's the easy way around a
    potentially very confusing situation.

    Guru's like to show off sometimes and post way too complicated schemes
    and methods to achive that end. 98 doesn't need a 'sys'ed C drive nor
    does 95 so I figure the 'tip' comes from Win3.1 days and is thus a bit
    long in the tooth. It also adds to newbie confusion and I'm all
    against that. There are also a lot of old sites out there that have
    not so relevent anymore advice, you'll have to learn how to spot them
    by lurking in these groups and noting which are linked to the most
    often and which are not.

    If you have a bootable CD and the boot order in the BIOS is such that
    CDROM comes before floppy (typical today, perhaps even the default
    setting? - so check that first, please) then you may boot with the CD
    or the floppy. If this is the case, Windows setup will tell you to
    remove the floppy when the times comes for the first reboot. 98 setup
    fails to tell you to also remove the CD from the CDROM drive because
    bootable CDs were a new thing when 98 came out and this problem didn't
    exist prior to that. But leaving the bootable CD in the CDROM drive is
    the same thing as leaving the floppy in the floppy drive and this leads
    to a confusing situation because of a not so good prompt built into the
    setup program. And that's more confusion we just don't need. At your
    end I can't imagine what you would think of it were that to happen.
    And being a newbie I wonder if you could tell if you had a bootable OEM
    CD or a non-bootable retail CD without help? OEM CDs will say on them
    'For distribution only with a new PC.' Retail CDs will not say that.
    And of course legal copies of either won't say anything on them so even
    more potential confusion. Today there is just too many bootable
    devices that can get in the way of us helping - if we are confused and
    thus wrong how can we possibly help?

    You should have seen Mscdex.exe text showing you the CDROM drive letter
    if you chose (1) boot with CDROM support. Otherwise you don't have a
    CDROM drive and can't use it to copy the cab files from. Please note
    if he has two or more CDROM drives of any type including DVD drives.

    My XP advice would be to install 98 first and then just drop in the XP
    CD and let it take over the system. This method will install a boot
    loader program such that at boot time instead of DOS you get the boot
    loader that asks you which OS you want to boot, XP or 98? And this way
    you get both OS on the same machine. All versions of the XP CD are
    bootable but are properly prompted to remove the CD when appropriate
    unlike 98. I do not have XP and my advice comes only from NT 4.0 which
    also sets up a boot loader over a pre-existing 9x OS. Best of luck on
    this quest.
  4. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Lee, you figure wrong about the "tip being from Win3.1 days." There are
    perfectly good reasons for using the method Jane describes for setting
    up WIN98 (or any other Windows system, for that matter.)

    1. The installation files are placed on the hard drive, thus disposing
    of the need to forever have the CD handy in order to install components.
    It's also less wear and tear on the CD and the CD drive if you simply
    run one file copy operation instead of having it accessed here and there
    and back and forth by Setup.

    2. Running Setup from the hard drive is faster and avoids potential
    errors while reading from the CD. Such errors are common, and one of the
    major causes of installation failures.

    3. RAM isn't being consumed by a startup disk RAM drive and can be put
    to better use.

    Jane had a couple of things wrong--didn't follow instructions to the
    letter--but there's nothing inherently *more* risky in the procedure
    than there is in any installation procedure. And while you may have had
    trouble understanding what was going on from her description, I had no
    trouble at all. Her usage in saying that "the drive wouldn't boot
    *unless* it had the /s files" was also grammatically and technically
    correct. The "format /s" procedure places the "/s files" on the target
    partition, and it won't boot without the "/s files" being present (and
    in their proper places, though that isn't germane to the conversation.)

    PS--If you don't have first-hand knowledge of XP installation, perhaps
    you should refrain from advising on the matter. There is no prompt to
    remove the bootable CD from the system because the XP CDs have a boot
    prompt--if you don't "press any key" when prompted, the CD boot is
    cancelled.

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

    "Lee" <melee5@my-deja.com> wrote in message
    news:1108814871.220964.281510@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > Ok very good, Rom is not the same as CDROM stop using one term for the
    > other right away, and /s files is not what I said. /s switch when
    used
    > with format command transfers system files to the formated hard drive
    > and makes the hard drive bootable. SYS C: command will do the same
    > thing. Avoid using either method to get the hard drive bootable
    > because at this point you really don't have enough knowledge to
    discern
    > exactly what device is booting the machine? And which device is doing
    > the booting is very important for *US* to understand in order to avoid
    > so many complications it boggles the mind, and eventually help you to
    > your goal. Later when you've done this a couple of times, please use
    > the /s switch and/or SYS C: and see what that does just for grins.
    For
    > now please only boot with the standard 98 startup disk otherwise known
    > as the 98 boot disk, because we all know how it boots and sets up the
    > ramdrive and shifts the CDROM drive down one letter and exactly what
    > prompts you will see in the process and can address those prompts when
    > missing or different as they would be from any other booting device.
    >
    > If you don't have system files on the hard drive then it can't be
    > booting the machine into DOS. And that's the easy way around a
    > potentially very confusing situation.
    >
    > Guru's like to show off sometimes and post way too complicated schemes
    > and methods to achive that end. 98 doesn't need a 'sys'ed C drive nor
    > does 95 so I figure the 'tip' comes from Win3.1 days and is thus a bit
    > long in the tooth. It also adds to newbie confusion and I'm all
    > against that. There are also a lot of old sites out there that have
    > not so relevent anymore advice, you'll have to learn how to spot them
    > by lurking in these groups and noting which are linked to the most
    > often and which are not.
    >
    > If you have a bootable CD and the boot order in the BIOS is such that
    > CDROM comes before floppy (typical today, perhaps even the default
    > setting? - so check that first, please) then you may boot with the CD
    > or the floppy. If this is the case, Windows setup will tell you to
    > remove the floppy when the times comes for the first reboot. 98 setup
    > fails to tell you to also remove the CD from the CDROM drive because
    > bootable CDs were a new thing when 98 came out and this problem didn't
    > exist prior to that. But leaving the bootable CD in the CDROM drive
    is
    > the same thing as leaving the floppy in the floppy drive and this
    leads
    > to a confusing situation because of a not so good prompt built into
    the
    > setup program. And that's more confusion we just don't need. At your
    > end I can't imagine what you would think of it were that to happen.
    > And being a newbie I wonder if you could tell if you had a bootable
    OEM
    > CD or a non-bootable retail CD without help? OEM CDs will say on them
    > 'For distribution only with a new PC.' Retail CDs will not say that.
    > And of course legal copies of either won't say anything on them so
    even
    > more potential confusion. Today there is just too many bootable
    > devices that can get in the way of us helping - if we are confused and
    > thus wrong how can we possibly help?
    >
    > You should have seen Mscdex.exe text showing you the CDROM drive
    letter
    > if you chose (1) boot with CDROM support. Otherwise you don't have a
    > CDROM drive and can't use it to copy the cab files from. Please note
    > if he has two or more CDROM drives of any type including DVD drives.
    >
    > My XP advice would be to install 98 first and then just drop in the XP
    > CD and let it take over the system. This method will install a boot
    > loader program such that at boot time instead of DOS you get the boot
    > loader that asks you which OS you want to boot, XP or 98? And this
    way
    > you get both OS on the same machine. All versions of the XP CD are
    > bootable but are properly prompted to remove the CD when appropriate
    > unlike 98. I do not have XP and my advice comes only from NT 4.0
    which
    > also sets up a boot loader over a pre-existing 9x OS. Best of luck on
    > this quest.
    >
  5. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    | You can't just change to any directory on any drive with one command
    | line. It has to be drive change first and then to any folder on that
    | drive.

    Actually, it can be done in either order, CD may be first or second...

    C:\>dir F:
    Directory of F:\
    MYDOCU~1 <DIR> 02-10-05 1:15a My Documents
    MYDOWN~1 <DIR> 02-10-05 1:16a My Downloads
    OPTIONS <DIR> 02-10-05 1:18a OPTIONS
    0 file(s) 0 bytes
    3 dir(s) 7,526.39 MB free

    C:\>cd F:\options

    C:\>F:

    F:\OPTIONS>


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Lee" <melee5@my-deja.com> wrote in message
    news:1108806576.603617.103480@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    | jane wrote:
    | > Hi guys (again),
    | > I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.
    | >
    | > I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
    | > We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it. We came
    | > across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
    | > I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
    | > 1)Boot from start-up floppy
    | > 2)Switch to C:\
    | > 3)MD WIN98
    | > 4)CD F:\WIN98
    | > 5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
    | > 6)Remove Floppy
    | > 7)ctrl+alt+del
    | > 8)should boot from C:
    | > 9)CD WIN98
    | > 10)SETUP.
    | >
    | > Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
    | > It refused to recognise the F:drive.
    | > (he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
    | > Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
    | > been the F:\).
    | > It kept saying there was no Fdrive.
    | > I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was
    there.
    | > I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
    | > Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to
    | happen.
    | > After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
    | > time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
    | > As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
    | > a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
    | > already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!
    | >
    | > We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
    | > The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
    | > was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping
    | well
    | > doing what we asked it to.
    | >
    | > help.
    | >
    | > thanks,
    | >
    | > regards Jane
    |
    | In DOS you can't do your steps 3 to 4 like that. You must first
    switch
    | drives to F:
    |
    | 3) MD win98
    | 3a) F:
    | 4) CD WIN98
    |
    | would have put you at the CDROM's WIN98 folder to do the copy *.*
    from.
    | You can't just change to any directory on any drive with one command
    | line. It has to be drive change first and then to any folder on that
    | drive.
    |
    | You should have been booting with CDROM support all along as you would
    | never get an F: drive without doing that. The boot up process gives
    | you a few hints about what's going on unless you are using a custom
    | boot disk and not the standard 98 one. It should tell you what your
    | ramdrive letter is and when Mscdex.exe loads it should also tell you
    | what your CDROM letter is. Any errors would also show up as text
    while
    | the boot disk grinds away. You could do DIR F: to see if the CDROM
    | drive is working or not.
    |
    | It sounds like maybe you guys formatted the wrong hard drive? You
    | can't install windows to the D: drive without some fancy doings that
    | will only get in the way if disscused now. You'll have to format the
    | C: drive and install Windows there or swap the drives around via their
    | jumpers or BIOS boot order which should be A:, C:, whatever. Double
    | check your boot order in the BIOS setup screens.
    |
    | 1) boot floppy with CDROM support
    | 2) at A:> prompt do DIR C: to see what is on the hard drive first
    | 3) format c: /u /c
    | 4) c:
    | 5) md win98
    | 6) f:
    | 7) cd win98
    | 8) copy *.* c:\win98
    | 9) c:
    | 10) cd win98
    | 11) setup
    |
    | Your number 8 above is wrong and I don't know who told you that the
    | hard drive would boot unless /s switch was part of the format command
    | which I strongly advise newbies to never use. It's simply not needed
    | and only causes grief and catastrophe to the understanding of what's
    | really going on and which device is booting the machine. Unless you
    | really want to be totally confused at this point, don't format with
    the
    | /s switch or do a SYS C: command. Hope that gets you a little closer.
    |
  6. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    What was the error when you tried to access F:? That will tell you whether
    the drive exists, but the access attempt failed, or the drive doesn't exist.

    Also, your step 4 should be
    4a F:
    4b CD\WIN98

    What is the message that is displayed during boot about installing the
    CD-ROM device drivers, and MSCDEX? There should be a message confirming the
    driver installed OK and a message that indicates the drive selected for the
    CD-ROM - some boot disks use a different letter, such as R, instead of
    defaulting to the next available.
    --
    Jeff Richards
    MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:eoMR56lFFHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > Hi guys (again),
    > I knew I had 2 posts to make tonight.
    >
    > I was at a friends today and because he has two HD's we played.
    > We formatted his drive then tried to put Win98se on it. We came
    > across some odd things and still dont have OS on it.
    > I did what I was taught here, ie, ::::::
    > 1)Boot from start-up floppy
    > 2)Switch to C:\
    > 3)MD WIN98
    > 4)CD F:\WIN98
    > 5)COPY *.* C:\WIN98
    > 6)Remove Floppy
    > 7)ctrl+alt+del
    > 8)should boot from C:
    > 9)CD WIN98
    > 10)SETUP.
    >
    > Except I/We couldnt get past (3).
    > It refused to recognise the F:drive.
    > (he has a C & a D drive, so the ramdrive should have 'fabricated' an
    > Edrive and hence the Win98 files from the CD-ROM should have
    > been the F:\).
    > It kept saying there was no Fdrive.
    > I double checked everything. I did DIR on C:\, the folder was there.
    > I did DIR on E:\,.......ramdrive stuff was there.
    > Try to change to Fdrive again......... Nope, wasnt going to happen.
    > After many attempts, we decided to reboot (for about the umpteenth
    > time) and instal OS *with* CDROM support.
    > As soon as Dos had run its usual tests and etc, it would take us to
    > a blue screen (wonder why Bill chose Blue) stating that there was
    > already an OS............... "piffle" I said.!
    >
    > We did this for most of the afternoon, checking and re-checking.
    > The drive was clean, the start-up disk was fine, the Win98se disk
    > was in the ROM, Everything was fine except for it flipping well
    > doing what we asked it to.
  7. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    (tail very well wedged between quivering legs),,,,

    I think all you guys have pointed out something we did wrong.

    Jeff......
    1)I cant remember the exact message, but I think it just said that
    the F:drive was not accessable
    1a)We never got a MSCDEX, only something that began with OEM
    1b)Yes, it looks like we missed step 4a. But, we did try to access
    the F:drive in the manner you mentioned, but as you will see
    further on in this note it was never going to happen due to what
    we did or didnt do.

    Gary.....
    1) (speaking very embarrased), no, I dont think we used Enable with
    Rom support at *that* stage.
    2)no, there definately wasnt an OS on drive, but I guess the comp
    didnt really know what else to say to point out our error.
    3)yes, you are right. the machine cannot function unless, me, the user
    give it the correct instructions. (boy, this is hard to type, am so
    embarrassed.)

    Lee....
    1)At the stage of #8 we thought we would be in the Fdrive at the
    Win98 folder, but never got that far.
    2)At 'format' stage, it was done like this... " Format C: /S".
    I dont really understand what you are saying when in one breath
    you are saying the drive wouldnt boot *unless* it had the /s files,
    and in another you are saying it is unadvisable for *newbies* to
    make use of it.
    I would love to know why some "guru's" who have internet sites
    strictly on these type of topics state that the S switch Must be used
    and others say avoid it like the plague......... just what the heck
    does it or doesnt it do in the first place.
    3)no, we didnt use the SYS C command.

    Phew, guess thats about it.
    I wont post on this topic until I am able to visit him again, hopefully
    on the advice given in this thread we will get it going first time.

    As you have probably all noticed via a Post next to this one, I am
    personally wanting to instal XP onto my system for learning purposes.
    Hugh said I should shoot off to a couple of sites he posted for me,
    but as can be seen from this thread alone, these sites dont always
    give correct information and also not in the order things are to be
    done...... hope some of you offer some advice on my Personal
    situation as per other post.

    Thanks guys.....

    regards Jane
  8. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:%23WlsAymFFHA.3824@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > (tail very well wedged between quivering legs),,,,

    Awwww... That's cute.

    >
    > I think all you guys have pointed out something we did wrong.
    >
    > Jeff......
    > 1)I cant remember the exact message, but I think it just said that
    > the F:drive was not accessable
    > 1a)We never got a MSCDEX, only something that began with OEM
    > 1b)Yes, it looks like we missed step 4a. But, we did try to access
    > the F:drive in the manner you mentioned, but as you will see
    > further on in this note it was never going to happen due to what
    > we did or didnt do.

    The CD (Change Directory) command can't be used to go from one drive to
    another. You have to first change drives, then CD to the directory you
    want.

    F:
    CD WIN98

    >
    > Gary.....
    > 1) (speaking very embarrased), no, I dont think we used Enable with
    > Rom support at *that* stage.
    > 2)no, there definately wasnt an OS on drive, but I guess the comp
    > didnt really know what else to say to point out our error.
    > 3)yes, you are right. the machine cannot function unless, me, the user
    > give it the correct instructions. (boy, this is hard to type, am so
    > embarrassed.)

    All CD Support does is load drivers for the CD drive(s). It doesn't care
    *why* you want to use the CD drive--there's no magic involved that has
    anything to do with running Setup from the installation CD. If you want
    to get to the CD drive, you have to enable CD Support at startup.

    >
    > Lee....
    > 1)At the stage of #8 we thought we would be in the Fdrive at the
    > Win98 folder, but never got that far.
    > 2)At 'format' stage, it was done like this... " Format C: /S".
    > I dont really understand what you are saying when in one breath
    > you are saying the drive wouldnt boot *unless* it had the /s files,
    > and in another you are saying it is unadvisable for *newbies* to
    > make use of it.
    > I would love to know why some "guru's" who have internet sites
    > strictly on these type of topics state that the S switch Must be
    used
    > and others say avoid it like the plague......... just what the
    heck
    > does it or doesnt it do in the first place.
    > 3)no, we didnt use the SYS C command.

    Provided you keep good track of your partitions and know which one is
    "Active" (that's a technical term, denoting which partition on the drive
    is the one that is to be booted), and you are otherwise well-organized,
    there's no reason at all not to use the /s switch with Format. But
    unless you're installing *in_this_particular_manner*, it's not needed.
    And when something's not needed, it's wisest not to use it or enable it.

    >
    > Phew, guess thats about it.
    > I wont post on this topic until I am able to visit him again,
    hopefully
    > on the advice given in this thread we will get it going first time.
    >
    > As you have probably all noticed via a Post next to this one, I am
    > personally wanting to instal XP onto my system for learning purposes.
    > Hugh said I should shoot off to a couple of sites he posted for me,
    > but as can be seen from this thread alone, these sites dont always
    > give correct information and also not in the order things are to be
    > done...... hope some of you offer some advice on my Personal
    > situation as per other post.

    The sites Hugh recommended are *Microsoft* sites, and he wouldn't have
    recommended them if he didn't think they were accurate. In that
    particular case, I think Hugh was simply suggesting two decent places
    for you to start your education in multi-booting, and not necessarily
    the be-all and end-all, everything-you-need-to-know answers to your
    questions.

    Part of your ongoing problems with your learning experience here, Jane,
    is that you tend to mix suggestions and procedures. There are many
    different ways of doing the same thing in Windows. That's one of the
    things that makes it so "user friendly" and popular. But if you are
    going to use a particular procedure, unless you know a lot about what
    you're doing, don't mix in pieces of other procedures. Find the one that
    best suits your needs and use *only* the directions for that procedure.
    That way, you have a known baseline from which to operate.

    You also need to know *why* you are doing something--what the procedure
    will produce. Computing is (generally) quite linear. It doesn't help
    that Microsoft (and others) engage in "idiot-proofing" and technically
    inaccurate but "friendly" language to describe their procedures. But if
    you can keep the terms straight, and you understand what a procedure
    really does--if you can "think it through"-- well, that's the first real
    step in learning computer programming and diagnosis.

    In the case at hand, it isn't clear from your post that the *only*
    partition (aka drive) that the system can see is the newly formatted
    partition. If it isn't, if there are other partitions or drives on the
    system that can be accessed, then you are treading on much more
    dangerous turf--one misstep and you can trash the existing system. Which
    is why, I think, Lee cautioned against using the method you were
    attempting.

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
  9. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Lee Said>>>>>>>>>>>>

    > Your number 8 above is wrong and I don't know who told you that the
    > hard drive would boot unless /s switch was part of the format command
    > which I strongly advise newbies to never use. It's simply not needed
    > and only causes grief and catastrophe to the understanding of what's
    > really going on and which device is booting the machine. Unless you
    > really want to be totally confused at this point, don't format with the
    > /s switch or do a SYS C: command. Hope that gets you a little closer.
    >
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    **Hi again Lee,,,,,,
    I went and did a search for where I got the info on making a file on
    the Cdrive and doing what I did. Here is the result of my search:::**

    The below info is from a thread called
    **Fatal Error, I am stumped on this one**
    -----------------
    Either way is fine, Jane. Using the /s switch makes the partition
    bootable, but Setup does this anyway. When it's most useful is when you
    copy the installation files to the hard drive, first, then boot to the
    HD and run Setup without using a floppy boot disk or the CD drive.

    Gary -- 24/01/05
    ---------------------
    Yes, that's what I mean, though there's a few other files besides the
    CAB files. Here's how:

    Boot to the Windows Startup floppy, FDISK, reboot as required, then
    FORMAT, using the /s switch on C\, but not on any other partitions (if
    present.) Then, while still booted to the floppy, run the following
    commands, using the appropriate letter for the CD drive where I have
    written "cdletter". I'll also assume this is a single-partition drive,
    but if it's not, it's even better to copy these files to somewhere
    *other_than* C:\. Adjust the commands appropriately. Also, this assumes
    a standard Windows 98 Installation CD, where the main setup files are
    located in \Win98\. Remember to use colons after drive letters.

    c:
    md WIN98 (I use upper-case so that the directory looks better in
    Windows)
    cdletter: (That's "cd drive letter" followed by a colon)
    cd win98 (That's "Change Directory to \win98\ folder on th eCD)
    copy *.* c:\win98 (there's spaces in there, before and after *.*)

    This will only copy files, not sub-directories, and that's OK. Good, in
    fact. When the copy job is finished, eject the floppy disk, then restart
    using C-A-D. When the C:\> prompt appears, run the following commands:

    cd win98
    setup

    Gary -- 24/02/05
    ---------------
  10. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    > > (tail very well wedged between quivering legs),,,,
    >
    > Awwww... That's cute.

    nah, puppies is cute.
  11. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:%23WlsAymFFHA.3824@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    >
    > I think all you guys have pointed out something we did wrong.
    >
    > Jeff......
    > 1)I cant remember the exact message, but I think it just said that
    > the F:drive was not accessable

    Was there a disc in the CDROM drive?
  12. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I had no trouble understanding what her problem was, I am not confused.
    But I would be as soon I wasn't sure how she was booting. She asked
    me why some do it one way and why I recommended that she not boot from
    the hard drive. Avoiding potential confusion was my answer to that but
    in the process of answering her, I apparently confused you? If she is
    not going to follow instructions exactly from whatever source, she is
    bound for confusion at some point, to wit - this entire thread it turns
    out.

    Points 1 and 2 I am in favor of which leads me to think that I confused
    you somewhat. I understand the purpose of both and agree with you
    totally on both points. But I don't think even a 3 meg ramdrive would
    compromise a windows 98 installation during the intial setup phase, so
    we have to part ways at your 3rd point. My advice on XP installation
    amounted to one point, let it infect your current 98 system so as to
    have the dual boot option of XP and 98 choices. I'll not refrain from
    giving that advice but we all appreciate your efforts in trying to
    limit the clutter around here. I don't have to have XP to know that a
    dual boot system would be much handier to have, of course, Jane has to
    do the homework to find out if she has enough room for it and where/how
    to allow it to live there, if her machine can use XP in the first place
    and many other issues which I promise I will NOT comment on.
  13. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    You are welcome Jane even though you took me as a feisty female when
    I'm anything but that on both counts. I simply couldn't let you get
    away with hacking up a new lingo term when Rom was already taken. Best
    of luck with both 98 and XP.
  14. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Jeeze, PCR. Only a mystic or a batch writer would be changing
    directories on a drive he wasn't even at yet. Since when did you start
    grinding your pencils this sharp? Those can be dangerous like that.
    I'll try to be more exact next time if you'll let me go this time.
  15. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Hi lee,
    you is one fiesty gal, or is lee a male name,
    in oz it can be either.

    thanks for input

    regards Jane

    "Lee" <melee5@my-deja.com> wrote in message
    news:1108814871.220964.281510@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > Ok very good, Rom is not the same as CDROM stop using one term for the
    > other right away, and /s files is not what I said. /s switch when used
    > with format command transfers system files to the formated hard drive
    > and makes the hard drive bootable. SYS C: command will do the same
    > thing. Avoid using either method to get the hard drive bootable
    > because at this point you really don't have enough knowledge to discern
    > exactly what device is booting the machine? And which device is doing
    > the booting is very important for *US* to understand in order to avoid
    > so many complications it boggles the mind, and eventually help you to
    > your goal. Later when you've done this a couple of times, please use
    > the /s switch and/or SYS C: and see what that does just for grins. For
    > now please only boot with the standard 98 startup disk otherwise known
    > as the 98 boot disk, because we all know how it boots and sets up the
    > ramdrive and shifts the CDROM drive down one letter and exactly what
    > prompts you will see in the process and can address those prompts when
    > missing or different as they would be from any other booting device.
    >
    > If you don't have system files on the hard drive then it can't be
    > booting the machine into DOS. And that's the easy way around a
    > potentially very confusing situation.
    >
    > Guru's like to show off sometimes and post way too complicated schemes
    > and methods to achive that end. 98 doesn't need a 'sys'ed C drive nor
    > does 95 so I figure the 'tip' comes from Win3.1 days and is thus a bit
    > long in the tooth. It also adds to newbie confusion and I'm all
    > against that. There are also a lot of old sites out there that have
    > not so relevent anymore advice, you'll have to learn how to spot them
    > by lurking in these groups and noting which are linked to the most
    > often and which are not.
    >
    > If you have a bootable CD and the boot order in the BIOS is such that
    > CDROM comes before floppy (typical today, perhaps even the default
    > setting? - so check that first, please) then you may boot with the CD
    > or the floppy. If this is the case, Windows setup will tell you to
    > remove the floppy when the times comes for the first reboot. 98 setup
    > fails to tell you to also remove the CD from the CDROM drive because
    > bootable CDs were a new thing when 98 came out and this problem didn't
    > exist prior to that. But leaving the bootable CD in the CDROM drive is
    > the same thing as leaving the floppy in the floppy drive and this leads
    > to a confusing situation because of a not so good prompt built into the
    > setup program. And that's more confusion we just don't need. At your
    > end I can't imagine what you would think of it were that to happen.
    > And being a newbie I wonder if you could tell if you had a bootable OEM
    > CD or a non-bootable retail CD without help? OEM CDs will say on them
    > 'For distribution only with a new PC.' Retail CDs will not say that.
    > And of course legal copies of either won't say anything on them so even
    > more potential confusion. Today there is just too many bootable
    > devices that can get in the way of us helping - if we are confused and
    > thus wrong how can we possibly help?
    >
    > You should have seen Mscdex.exe text showing you the CDROM drive letter
    > if you chose (1) boot with CDROM support. Otherwise you don't have a
    > CDROM drive and can't use it to copy the cab files from. Please note
    > if he has two or more CDROM drives of any type including DVD drives.
    >
    > My XP advice would be to install 98 first and then just drop in the XP
    > CD and let it take over the system. This method will install a boot
    > loader program such that at boot time instead of DOS you get the boot
    > loader that asks you which OS you want to boot, XP or 98? And this way
    > you get both OS on the same machine. All versions of the XP CD are
    > bootable but are properly prompted to remove the CD when appropriate
    > unlike 98. I do not have XP and my advice comes only from NT 4.0 which
    > also sets up a boot loader over a pre-existing 9x OS. Best of luck on
    > this quest.
    >
  16. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I've been spelling "Jeeze": Geez. Yours looks better, so let's just call
    it even. I have to go wash my bloody, leaden fingers, anyhow. OK, then.

    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Lee" <melee5@my-deja.com> wrote in message
    news:1108895346.897805.229120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
    | Jeeze, PCR. Only a mystic or a batch writer would be changing
    | directories on a drive he wasn't even at yet. Since when did you
    start
    | grinding your pencils this sharp? Those can be dangerous like that.
    | I'll try to be more exact next time if you'll let me go this time.
    |
  17. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Hi All,
    Its late and I'm going to college tomorrow.
    I have two hours between lessons after lunch in which time I am
    going back to friends to try again to instal win98se using garys
    version of makeing a folder and intalling the cab-files into it.
    Can anyone here please give me a 1 thru 10 Process on how to do
    this properly.?
    I only have 11 hours before I have to leave, I will hopefully check
    early tomorrow to find a response or two

    thanks

    regards Jane
  18. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:uWP%23CZNGFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > Hi All,
    > Its late and I'm going to college tomorrow.
    > I have two hours between lessons after lunch in which time I am
    > going back to friends to try again to instal win98se using garys
    > version of makeing a folder and intalling the cab-files into it.
    > Can anyone here please give me a 1 thru 10 Process on how to do
    > this properly.?
    > I only have 11 hours before I have to leave, I will hopefully check
    > early tomorrow to find a response or two
    >
    > thanks
    >
    > regards Jane

    On a working system:
    1 Create a Windows 98 boot floppy
    2 Remove the floppy and mark it Standard Boot Floppy
    3 Create a second Windows 98 boot floppy
    4 Now delete all files on the 2nd floppy EXCEPT:
    = AUTOEXEC.BAT
    = COMMAND.COM
    = CONFIG.SYS
    = FORMAT.COM
    = HIMEM.SYS
    = IO.SYS
    = MSCDEX.EXE
    = MSDOS.SYS
    = OAKCDROM.SYS
    = RESTART.COM
    = SCANDISK.EXE
    = SCANDISK.INI
    = SYS.COM
    (You can skip Step #4 if you like)
    5 Right-click on AUTOEXEC.BAT and select Edit
    6 Delete the content of AUTOEXEC.BAT
    7 Copy and paste the following into AUTOEXEC.BAT
    SYS C:
    LH A:\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001
    MD C:\WIN98
    D:
    CD \WIN98
    COPY D:\WIN98\*.* C:\WIN98
    C:
    CD \WIN98
    SETUP
    [Note: I have double-spaced the commands to help
    with readability, but you can single-space]
    [Note: Make sure that you include the colons -
    they are very easy to miss if you type
    the commands instead of using copy/paste]
    6 Close AUTOEXEC.BAT
    7 Remove the floppy and mark it Modified Boot Floppy

    On the system to be refreshed:
    1 Insert the Standard Boot Floppy and let it boot to DOS
    2 Run FDISK
    3 Remove all logical drives and all partitions
    4 Create your Primary partition and make it active
    5 Format C:
    6 Remove the Standard Boot Floppy
    7 Insert the Windows 98 CD-ROM disc in the CD-ROM drive
    8 Insert the Modified Boot Floppy and reboot (CTRL-ALT-DEL)

    After the "Starting Windows 98" splash, this is what will happen
    1 The system files will be copied to the C drive, making it bootable
    2 The CD-ROM driver will be loaded
    3 The C:\WIN98 directory will be created
    4 The computer will switch to the CD-ROM drive D:
    5 The computer will switch to the WIN98 directory on D:
    6 The WIN98 directory files will be copied from the CD-ROM disc
    to the C:\WIN98 sub-directory
    7 The computer will switch to the hard drive C:
    8 The computer will switch to the C:\WIN98 sub-directory
    9 The Windows Setup program will begin

    After Setup completes, you can run FDISK to create additional
    primary and extended partitions and physical and logical drives
    as required. Then it is time to install the drivers, system updates
    and applications.

    Anytime in the future, when you make a configuration change
    which demands the Windows 98 CD, the system will
    automagically use the CAB files in C:\WIN98 instead.
    You won't have to insert the CD.
  19. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    http://www.hexff.com/index.html How to Clean Install
    This first has it all, but..
    (a) Perhaps don't do the 2.5 swap file thing, &
    (b) You may rather have multiple partitions, &
    (c) Attend it's warning: Have any non-Windows peripheral drivers
    available to install afterwards. Here...
    http://www.pchelpandconsulting.com/links/windows.html WinDrvExpert
    http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm WinDrvBckup free version
    Those two supposedly back up all currently installed drivers, such that
    they can be reinstalled. I never tried it but have seen a favorable
    report.

    http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html Badour has one
    http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm Aumha has one
    http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250928 How to Reinstall Windows
    http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=193902
    How to Reinstall Windows into a new folder


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:uWP%23CZNGFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    | Hi All,
    | Its late and I'm going to college tomorrow.
    | I have two hours between lessons after lunch in which time I am
    | going back to friends to try again to instal win98se using garys
    | version of makeing a folder and intalling the cab-files into it.
    | Can anyone here please give me a 1 thru 10 Process on how to do
    | this properly.?
    | I only have 11 hours before I have to leave, I will hopefully check
    | early tomorrow to find a response or two
    |
    | thanks
    |
    | regards Jane
    |
    |
  20. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    WOW!
    Thanks Hugh.
    I have to say, that one has come in from out of left field.
    I had no idea you could Fdisk and create partitions while an OS
    is on the computer.
    I have never done it that way before and am under the impression
    that Fdisk kills everything.
    How does it work? How can you create a partition while an OS is using the
    said partition you wish to "break-down" into other sections? I thought you
    had to utilise 3rd party software for this
    procedure.
    I have 1 1/2 hours before I have to leave, hope you are awake and
    online.

    regards Jane
    "Hugh Candlin" <No@MeansNo.Com> wrote in message
    news:O66wqgQGFHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    > news:uWP%23CZNGFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > Hi All,
    > > Its late and I'm going to college tomorrow.
    > > I have two hours between lessons after lunch in which time I am
    > > going back to friends to try again to instal win98se using garys
    > > version of makeing a folder and intalling the cab-files into it.
    > > Can anyone here please give me a 1 thru 10 Process on how to do
    > > this properly.?
    > > I only have 11 hours before I have to leave, I will hopefully check
    > > early tomorrow to find a response or two
    > >
    > > thanks
    > >
    > > regards Jane
    >
    > On a working system:
    > 1 Create a Windows 98 boot floppy
    > 2 Remove the floppy and mark it Standard Boot Floppy
    > 3 Create a second Windows 98 boot floppy
    > 4 Now delete all files on the 2nd floppy EXCEPT:
    > = AUTOEXEC.BAT
    > = COMMAND.COM
    > = CONFIG.SYS
    > = FORMAT.COM
    > = HIMEM.SYS
    > = IO.SYS
    > = MSCDEX.EXE
    > = MSDOS.SYS
    > = OAKCDROM.SYS
    > = RESTART.COM
    > = SCANDISK.EXE
    > = SCANDISK.INI
    > = SYS.COM
    > (You can skip Step #4 if you like)
    > 5 Right-click on AUTOEXEC.BAT and select Edit
    > 6 Delete the content of AUTOEXEC.BAT
    > 7 Copy and paste the following into AUTOEXEC.BAT
    > SYS C:
    > LH A:\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001
    > MD C:\WIN98
    > D:
    > CD \WIN98
    > COPY D:\WIN98\*.* C:\WIN98
    > C:
    > CD \WIN98
    > SETUP
    > [Note: I have double-spaced the commands to help
    > with readability, but you can single-space]
    > [Note: Make sure that you include the colons -
    > they are very easy to miss if you type
    > the commands instead of using copy/paste]
    > 6 Close AUTOEXEC.BAT
    > 7 Remove the floppy and mark it Modified Boot Floppy
    >
    > On the system to be refreshed:
    > 1 Insert the Standard Boot Floppy and let it boot to DOS
    > 2 Run FDISK
    > 3 Remove all logical drives and all partitions
    > 4 Create your Primary partition and make it active
    > 5 Format C:
    > 6 Remove the Standard Boot Floppy
    > 7 Insert the Windows 98 CD-ROM disc in the CD-ROM drive
    > 8 Insert the Modified Boot Floppy and reboot (CTRL-ALT-DEL)
    >
    > After the "Starting Windows 98" splash, this is what will happen
    > 1 The system files will be copied to the C drive, making it bootable
    > 2 The CD-ROM driver will be loaded
    > 3 The C:\WIN98 directory will be created
    > 4 The computer will switch to the CD-ROM drive D:
    > 5 The computer will switch to the WIN98 directory on D:
    > 6 The WIN98 directory files will be copied from the CD-ROM disc
    > to the C:\WIN98 sub-directory
    > 7 The computer will switch to the hard drive C:
    > 8 The computer will switch to the C:\WIN98 sub-directory
    > 9 The Windows Setup program will begin
    >
    > After Setup completes, you can run FDISK to create additional
    > primary and extended partitions and physical and logical drives
    > as required. Then it is time to install the drivers, system updates
    > and applications.
    >
    > Anytime in the future, when you make a configuration change
    > which demands the Windows 98 CD, the system will
    > automagically use the CAB files in C:\WIN98 instead.
    > You won't have to insert the CD.
    >
    >
  21. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:uI4NghRGFHA.560@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > WOW!
    > Thanks Hugh.
    > I have to say, that one has come in from out of left field.

    I have posted that information a few times.

    > I had no idea you could Fdisk and create partitions while an OS
    > is on the computer.
    > I have never done it that way before and am under the impression
    > that Fdisk kills everything.
    > How does it work?

    How to Use the Fdisk Tool and the Format Tool to Partition or Repartition a
    Hard Disk
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;255867

    > How can you create a partition while an OS is using the
    > said partition you wish to "break-down" into other sections? I thought
    you
    > had to utilise 3rd party software for this
    > procedure.

    That is true, but it is also a different set of specifications
    from your original post, which is what I was responding to.

    > I have 1 1/2 hours before I have to leave, hope you are awake and
    > online.

    Sorry.

    I don't provide voluntary support on someone else's schedule.
    Most of the people who provide support will probably agree
    that the "rule" here is "catch-as-catch-can",
    which comes right after "catch-me-if-you-can".
  22. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    > 4 Now delete all files on the 2nd floppy EXCEPT:
    > = AUTOEXEC.BAT
    > = COMMAND.COM
    > = CONFIG.SYS
    > = FORMAT.COM
    > = HIMEM.SYS
    > = IO.SYS
    > = MSCDEX.EXE
    > = MSDOS.SYS
    > = OAKCDROM.SYS
    > = RESTART.COM
    > = SCANDISK.EXE
    > = SCANDISK.INI
    > = SYS.COM
    > (You can skip Step #4 if you like)
    ---------------------------
    ER, Hugh,,,,,
    I just made the New disk, and I checked it against your list, these
    items are not even on it:::
    SYS.COM
    SCANDISK.EXE
    SCANDISK.INI
    RESTART.COM
    MSCDEX.EXE
    FORMAT.COM

    Am I missing something?
    The disk was made from going to Add/Rem, Create StartUp Disk.
    I had a win98 CD in the drive.
    Are the above missing files located within the EBD.CAB?
    Getting confused!

    regards Jane
  23. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:O%23rqLxRGFHA.2180@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    >
    > > 4 Now delete all files on the 2nd floppy EXCEPT:
    > > = AUTOEXEC.BAT
    > > = COMMAND.COM
    > > = CONFIG.SYS
    > > = FORMAT.COM
    > > = HIMEM.SYS
    > > = IO.SYS
    > > = MSCDEX.EXE
    > > = MSDOS.SYS
    > > = OAKCDROM.SYS
    > > = RESTART.COM
    > > = SCANDISK.EXE
    > > = SCANDISK.INI
    > > = SYS.COM
    > > (You can skip Step #4 if you like)
    > ---------------------------
    > ER, Hugh,,,,,
    > I just made the New disk, and I checked it against your list, these
    > items are not even on it:::
    > SYS.COM
    > SCANDISK.EXE
    > SCANDISK.INI
    > RESTART.COM
    > MSCDEX.EXE
    > FORMAT.COM
    >
    > Am I missing something?
    > The disk was made from going to Add/Rem, Create StartUp Disk.
    > I had a win98 CD in the drive.
    > Are the above missing files located within the EBD.CAB?

    Yes.

    > Getting confused!

    That's why I said, (You can skip Step #4 if you like)
  24. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    news:uzrHfETGFHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > http://www.hexff.com/index.html How to Clean Install
    > This first has it all, but..
    > (a) Perhaps don't do the 2.5 swap file thing, &
    > (b) You may rather have multiple partitions, &
    > (c) Attend it's warning: Have any non-Windows peripheral drivers
    > available to install afterwards. Here...
    > http://www.pchelpandconsulting.com/links/windows.html WinDrvExpert
    > http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm WinDrvBckup free version
    > Those two supposedly back up all currently installed drivers, such that
    > they can be reinstalled. I never tried it but have seen a favorable
    > report.
    >
    > http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html Badour has one
    > http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm Aumha has one
    > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250928 How to Reinstall Windows
    > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=193902
    > How to Reinstall Windows into a new folder

    Hey, thanks for reply PCR, i was worried about you.

    Okay, since the last time I posted, Ian and I had lost our ISP.
    I am online now as of about 1/2 an hour ago, (had to do a couple
    of emails first)

    I went to friends house at lunchtime (as mentioned) and we got straight into
    it.
    We used Garys version from about 2 weeks ago (I changed one thing)
    It worked just fine.(hugh, yours was just toooo different for me to try
    yesterday)
    We then proceeded to put XP on the Drive(of which was created using Fdisk)
    We made it NTFS, all is well.
    (actually, I was in the drivers seat, so beat your chests guys, because I
    followed all Your instructions and it worked)

    Now,,,,,,,,,
    Lets talk about JANE, she got stuff she needs help with.
    Jane wants to have XP too, have disk now.
    Have Ddrive with Autocad on it....... have already backed it up and placed
    it in safe place on Edrive.
    First Question. All of the Paths that Autocad is Used to, what will happen
    to them when I do
    a Restore and place Autocad itself on my Edrive? Will all prior settings be
    gone.?
    (this is naturally relating to the fact that I dont re-intal autocad from
    disk and just plonk the
    whole thing from Ddrive to Edrive via Back-Up)
    Second, (btw, still summer here and prawns still available for bbq), the two
    other things on my Ddrive
    are Recycle Bin and Incinerator, of which are not backed up in any
    way......... what is it exactly that
    happens to these two chaps if I format D?
    And, if I finallly get to the stage whereby I am ready to put XP on the
    Ddrive (as I observed how easy it
    was to do at my friends house..... albeit it he had no fear of losing
    anything as he had a spare clean drive)
    would I or would I not be smart/prudent in nominating the xp o/s as fat 32
    or ntfs?
    Keeping in mind I am only interested in looking around the way it works
    rather that using it as my primary
    o/s. (hope that makes sense, because I personally know exactly what I am
    trying to say)

    Oh, one last thing (as there always is with Jane).
    That same friend Gave me one of those FlashDrive things......... (yes, I
    know what it is).
    He also gave me 3 small disks with it to load whatever was necessary to
    load.
    I managed to find the one that related to the product he gave me, but it was
    insistant in
    telling me it was USB 2.0 and that even if I had 98se I would have to d/l
    drivers from the disk.
    (pretty silly really, as I was reading it right in front of me from the disk
    itself.........hmmm)
    Anyway, this is yet another reason I want xp, having the flash would help
    heaps in taking home
    assignments from college.
    Question is, can I use this FlashDrive with my win 98 usb1 or will I have to
    instal xp in order to
    have it?

    boy, that was a lot of typing.

    all that aside, and just to be sociable.
    I downloaded a program/utility a few days ago, and the owner actually wrote
    back to me praising me
    for my enthusiasm and offered me 10 free licences of fully working versions
    of his product..... and trust me,
    it isnt just a fly-by-night product.
    I was so impressed when I received the mail today that I wrote back
    instantly telling him how I was nearly
    in shock that he had even bothered to converse with me let alone offer me so
    much.
    It reminded me of you guys who are there as if I walked to a friends house
    and knocked on the door because
    I needed someone to talk to or some help with something.
    I hear from so many people nowadays how the internet is like talking to a
    bank, you just dont get to talk
    to a person, and I'm so glad and thankful that I have found this kind of
    newsgroup.

    thanks guys

    regards Jane
  25. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I'M OK! It's TERHUNE who was dangling by his toes in the mouths of his
    Poodles over an earthquake! They DID hold him long enough for Dan to
    complete his secret rescue mission, all the while saying he went to sit
    on his nieces!

    I must leave you in THEIR capable hands to answer any XP-radiation
    questions. Glad you did get Win98 installed OK, though.


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:e8qm4bnGFHA.3968@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    |
    | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    | news:uzrHfETGFHA.1348@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    | > http://www.hexff.com/index.html How to Clean Install
    | > This first has it all, but..
    | > (a) Perhaps don't do the 2.5 swap file thing, &
    | > (b) You may rather have multiple partitions, &
    | > (c) Attend it's warning: Have any non-Windows peripheral drivers
    | > available to install afterwards. Here...
    | > http://www.pchelpandconsulting.com/links/windows.html WinDrvExpert
    | > http://www.jermar.com/wdrvbck.htm WinDrvBckup free version
    | > Those two supposedly back up all currently installed drivers, such
    that
    | > they can be reinstalled. I never tried it but have seen a favorable
    | > report.
    | >
    | > http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html Badour has one
    | > http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm Aumha has one
    | > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=250928 How to Reinstall Windows
    | > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=193902
    | > How to Reinstall Windows into a new folder
    |
    | Hey, thanks for reply PCR, i was worried about you.
    |
    | Okay, since the last time I posted, Ian and I had lost our ISP.
    | I am online now as of about 1/2 an hour ago, (had to do a couple
    | of emails first)
    |
    | I went to friends house at lunchtime (as mentioned) and we got
    straight into
    | it.
    | We used Garys version from about 2 weeks ago (I changed one thing)
    | It worked just fine.(hugh, yours was just toooo different for me to
    try
    | yesterday)
    | We then proceeded to put XP on the Drive(of which was created using
    Fdisk)
    | We made it NTFS, all is well.
    | (actually, I was in the drivers seat, so beat your chests guys,
    because I
    | followed all Your instructions and it worked)
    |
    | Now,,,,,,,,,
    | Lets talk about JANE, she got stuff she needs help with.
    | Jane wants to have XP too, have disk now.
    | Have Ddrive with Autocad on it....... have already backed it up and
    placed
    | it in safe place on Edrive.
    | First Question. All of the Paths that Autocad is Used to, what will
    happen
    | to them when I do
    | a Restore and place Autocad itself on my Edrive? Will all prior
    settings be
    | gone.?
    | (this is naturally relating to the fact that I dont re-intal autocad
    from
    | disk and just plonk the
    | whole thing from Ddrive to Edrive via Back-Up)
    | Second, (btw, still summer here and prawns still available for bbq),
    the two
    | other things on my Ddrive
    | are Recycle Bin and Incinerator, of which are not backed up in any
    | way......... what is it exactly that
    | happens to these two chaps if I format D?
    | And, if I finallly get to the stage whereby I am ready to put XP on
    the
    | Ddrive (as I observed how easy it
    | was to do at my friends house..... albeit it he had no fear of
    losing
    | anything as he had a spare clean drive)
    | would I or would I not be smart/prudent in nominating the xp o/s as
    fat 32
    | or ntfs?
    | Keeping in mind I am only interested in looking around the way it
    works
    | rather that using it as my primary
    | o/s. (hope that makes sense, because I personally know exactly what I
    am
    | trying to say)
    |
    | Oh, one last thing (as there always is with Jane).
    | That same friend Gave me one of those FlashDrive things.........
    (yes, I
    | know what it is).
    | He also gave me 3 small disks with it to load whatever was necessary
    to
    | load.
    | I managed to find the one that related to the product he gave me, but
    it was
    | insistant in
    | telling me it was USB 2.0 and that even if I had 98se I would have to
    d/l
    | drivers from the disk.
    | (pretty silly really, as I was reading it right in front of me from
    the disk
    | itself.........hmmm)
    | Anyway, this is yet another reason I want xp, having the flash would
    help
    | heaps in taking home
    | assignments from college.
    | Question is, can I use this FlashDrive with my win 98 usb1 or will I
    have to
    | instal xp in order to
    | have it?
    |
    | boy, that was a lot of typing.
    |
    | all that aside, and just to be sociable.
    | I downloaded a program/utility a few days ago, and the owner actually
    wrote
    | back to me praising me
    | for my enthusiasm and offered me 10 free licences of fully working
    versions
    | of his product..... and trust me,
    | it isnt just a fly-by-night product.
    | I was so impressed when I received the mail today that I wrote back
    | instantly telling him how I was nearly
    | in shock that he had even bothered to converse with me let alone offer
    me so
    | much.
    | It reminded me of you guys who are there as if I walked to a friends
    house
    | and knocked on the door because
    | I needed someone to talk to or some help with something.
    | I hear from so many people nowadays how the internet is like talking
    to a
    | bank, you just dont get to talk
    | to a person, and I'm so glad and thankful that I have found this kind
    of
    | newsgroup.
    |
    | thanks guys
    |
    | regards Jane
    |
    |
  26. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:e8qm4bnGFHA.3968@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > I went to friends house at lunchtime (as mentioned) and we got
    straight into
    > it.
    > We used Garys version from about 2 weeks ago (I changed one thing)
    > It worked just fine.(hugh, yours was just toooo different for me to
    try
    > yesterday)
    > We then proceeded to put XP on the Drive(of which was created using
    Fdisk)
    > We made it NTFS, all is well.
    > (actually, I was in the drivers seat, so beat your chests guys,
    because I
    > followed all Your instructions and it worked)

    I have to ask: Why install Windows 98 if your final goal was Windows XP.
    You can do all of the setup chores necessary from a WinXP CD, and if
    upgrade verification was the issue, then the solution to that is to show
    XP's Setup the installation CD for Win9x. Or am I reading you right? Was
    this a dual-boot installation?

    >
    > Now,,,,,,,,,
    > Lets talk about JANE, she got stuff she needs help with.
    > Jane wants to have XP too, have disk now.
    > Have Ddrive with Autocad on it....... have already backed it up and
    placed
    > it in safe place on Edrive.
    > First Question. All of the Paths that Autocad is Used to, what will
    happen
    > to them when I do
    > a Restore and place Autocad itself on my Edrive? Will all prior
    settings be
    > gone.?
    > (this is naturally relating to the fact that I dont re-intal autocad
    from
    > disk and just plonk the
    > whole thing from Ddrive to Edrive via Back-Up)

    You can't migrate most programs from one OS installation to another in
    this manner. Applications installations are often "dynamic" affairs--the
    installer makes some of it's installation decisions based upon
    pre-exisiting conditions. They also don't just consist of dumping the
    files onto the drive. Besides files that it places in teh program's own
    folder(s), there are also typically files added to the Common Files
    section of Program Files, to various parts of the Windows directory, and
    shortcuts, too. And, of course, there's the necessary changes to configu
    ration files--not only to the Registry but also to files like Win.ini,
    System.ini, etc. It's difficult enough when the OS migration is from one
    instlalation to another of the same version (98 to 98, XP to XP, etc.)
    The case is made worse by the fact that you are migrating from a Win9x
    system to a WinNT system--the configuration files don't even necessarily
    have the same names, the configurations themselves are performed in
    entirely different manners, and many even not apply to one OS while
    being critically necessary to another.

    Or are you simply migrating the installation to another partition, with
    a different letter, and are simply concerned about continued use from
    the OS to which it was installed? If so, the same issues apply to a
    degree. You would have to find *all* of the pointers to that program's
    folders and files and then change them to the proper paths. But! You
    have one saving grace. If you format the partition that used to be D:\
    with the NTFS file system, Windows 98 can't recognize that partition,
    and so will no longer call it D:\--it will call what *used_to_be* E:\
    drive D:\ drive. This is good for your purposes of moving AutoCAD to the
    current E:\ drive (because once you delete the current D:\ or reformat
    using NTFS, it's not longer D:\ and E:\ becomes D:\.) But what about the
    rest of your stuff? Anything that was already on E:\ will now be on D:\.
    Were there any other programs on D:\? When you "backed up" the files to
    the current E:\ drive, dod you copy them? Did you retain the same Path
    other than the letter of the drive? Just what did you do?

    > Second, (btw, still summer here and prawns still available for bbq),
    the two
    > other things on my Ddrive
    > are Recycle Bin and Incinerator, of which are not backed up in any
    > way......... what is it exactly that
    > happens to these two chaps if I format D?

    They disappear. Until you start up with a Windows OS in charge, at which
    point the Recycler/Recycle Bin will be automatically recreated.
    Incinerator is part of a third-party app and, I would imagine, if that
    app was installed, and in this particular case, it will be automatically
    recreated, also.

    > And, if I finallly get to the stage whereby I am ready to put XP on
    the
    > Ddrive (as I observed how easy it
    > was to do at my friends house..... albeit it he had no fear of
    losing
    > anything as he had a spare clean drive)
    > would I or would I not be smart/prudent in nominating the xp o/s as
    fat 32
    > or ntfs?

    Considering the previous discussion of moving AutoCAD, you would do best
    by formatting it as NTFS.

    > Keeping in mind I am only interested in looking around the way it
    works
    > rather that using it as my primary
    > o/s. (hope that makes sense, because I personally know exactly what I
    am
    > trying to say)

    I understand, but your should know that XP is very invasive. It adds
    stuff to every partition it finds that it can recognize. Only by using a
    3rd-party boot manager can you hide any partitions from XP, and even
    then, it's tricky. So, expect files that are foreign to (and
    unrecognized and sometimes mistreated by) Windows 98. You also want to
    turn off XP's System Restore on all but its own OS partition. Lastly,
    you will note that the drive letter assignments to partitions may vary
    between the OSes. However, in XP, you can change almost any drive's
    letter as you please.

    >
    > Oh, one last thing (as there always is with Jane).
    > That same friend Gave me one of those FlashDrive things.........
    (yes, I
    > know what it is).
    > He also gave me 3 small disks with it to load whatever was necessary
    to
    > load.
    > I managed to find the one that related to the product he gave me, but
    it was
    > insistant in
    > telling me it was USB 2.0 and that even if I had 98se I would have to
    d/l
    > drivers from the disk.
    > (pretty silly really, as I was reading it right in front of me from
    the disk
    > itself.........hmmm)
    > Anyway, this is yet another reason I want xp, having the flash would
    help
    > heaps in taking home
    > assignments from college.
    > Question is, can I use this FlashDrive with my win 98 usb1 or will I
    have to
    > instal xp in order to
    > have it?

    Well, does it work on the system you have? If so, that's a good enough
    test. It *may* need additional drivers, even to function properly in USB
    1.1 Mode on Win98. It may simply be stating that *if* you want it to
    work according to specs, it needs to be in USB 2 mode, and for that, you
    need drivers and/or USB 2 hardware support.
    >
    > boy, that was a lot of typing.
    >
    > all that aside, and just to be sociable.
    > I downloaded a program/utility a few days ago, and the owner actually
    wrote
    > back to me praising me
    > for my enthusiasm and offered me 10 free licences of fully working
    versions
    > of his product..... and trust me,
    > it isnt just a fly-by-night product.
    > I was so impressed when I received the mail today that I wrote back
    > instantly telling him how I was nearly
    > in shock that he had even bothered to converse with me let alone offer
    me so
    > much.
    > It reminded me of you guys who are there as if I walked to a friends
    house
    > and knocked on the door because
    > I needed someone to talk to or some help with something.
    > I hear from so many people nowadays how the internet is like talking
    to a
    > bank, you just dont get to talk
    > to a person, and I'm so glad and thankful that I have found this kind
    of
    > newsgroup.

    All that workup and you aren't going to tell us what the program is?

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
  27. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Hi,,,,
    Oh boy, never again.
    I wrote last nights message after Ian and I came back from
    dining out, and I re-read it just now. It sounds like jibberish
    and I think I know why, something to do with two bottles of red
    between us.

    The utility is XXCOPY.
    I chose it as my college assignment and the guy obviously read a
    comment I left in the comment box. (didnt think anyone bothered reading
    them).

    regards Jane

    oh, just installing Flash Device now, have to re-boot so will keep you
    posted.

    > All that workup and you aren't going to tell us what the program is?
    >
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    >
  28. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    > I have to ask: Why install Windows 98 if your final goal was Windows XP.
    > You can do all of the setup chores necessary from a WinXP CD, and if
    > upgrade verification was the issue, then the solution to that is to show
    > XP's Setup the installation CD for Win9x. Or am I reading you right? Was
    > this a dual-boot installation?

    Hi Gary,,,,
    The answer is no, I honestly dont think anyone here was reading me right
    concerning this project.
    As you know, installing an O/S of any kind is/was new to me, especially over
    the last month.
    So, installing win98 on his system was a step toward one of two goals.
    The first being the fact that we have both been led to believe that when
    having two
    O/S's on a drive it is prudent to put the lesser one on first and put XP on
    last.
    The second being the sheer opportunity to do another instal of win98.
    The primary objective for me personally on top of the above is the lead up
    to
    actually putting XP on my own home computer.
    All of the characteristics you mention that xp has, especially its ability
    to basically
    install itself with very little user interaction, is new to me.
    As I have mentioned many many times, I do Not have xp and have only come
    into
    contact with it via visiting college a few times a week for a couple of
    hours each time.
    This as you can imagine gives me very little time to aquaint myself with it,
    and especially
    as most of the time the instructor talking and teaching.
    My goal then of having here on my home PC is nothing more than familiarity.
    I will not be using it to connect to the internet, I will not be keeping any
    programs on it,,
    I merely want it to get the feel of it.

    Hope that has cleared up for all the reason for my having it.
    Also hope it cleared things up regarding my wanting see first hand what
    happens when
    98 and xp are both on one hdd........ I havent seen this before.

    regards Jane
  29. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Yes, I read it wrong. Your goal was a dual-boot system. All I can
    suggest is that it's better to set those up on separate partitions, and
    yes, you're right, you want to install Win98 before WinXP *if* you
    intend to use WinXP's boot manager, and not some third-party boot
    manager. Otherwise, I'd recommend the opposite: Install XP first,
    precisely so that it doesn't install its boot manager.

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

    "jane" <jane@internet.com> wrote in message
    news:uyCKlQ$GFHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    >
    > > I have to ask: Why install Windows 98 if your final goal was Windows
    XP.
    > > You can do all of the setup chores necessary from a WinXP CD, and if
    > > upgrade verification was the issue, then the solution to that is to
    show
    > > XP's Setup the installation CD for Win9x. Or am I reading you right?
    Was
    > > this a dual-boot installation?
    >
    > Hi Gary,,,,
    > The answer is no, I honestly dont think anyone here was reading me
    right
    > concerning this project.
    > As you know, installing an O/S of any kind is/was new to me,
    especially over
    > the last month.
    > So, installing win98 on his system was a step toward one of two goals.
    > The first being the fact that we have both been led to believe that
    when
    > having two
    > O/S's on a drive it is prudent to put the lesser one on first and put
    XP on
    > last.
    > The second being the sheer opportunity to do another instal of win98.
    > The primary objective for me personally on top of the above is the
    lead up
    > to
    > actually putting XP on my own home computer.
    > All of the characteristics you mention that xp has, especially its
    ability
    > to basically
    > install itself with very little user interaction, is new to me.
    > As I have mentioned many many times, I do Not have xp and have only
    come
    > into
    > contact with it via visiting college a few times a week for a couple
    of
    > hours each time.
    > This as you can imagine gives me very little time to aquaint myself
    with it,
    > and especially
    > as most of the time the instructor talking and teaching.
    > My goal then of having here on my home PC is nothing more than
    familiarity.
    > I will not be using it to connect to the internet, I will not be
    keeping any
    > programs on it,,
    > I merely want it to get the feel of it.
    >
    > Hope that has cleared up for all the reason for my having it.
    > Also hope it cleared things up regarding my wanting see first hand
    what
    > happens when
    > 98 and xp are both on one hdd........ I havent seen this before.
    >
    > regards Jane
    >
    >
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