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Help needed to upgrade USB port on old PC

Last response: in Windows 95/98/ME
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February 20, 2005 2:33:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

I am trying to connect a new Brothers MFC420CN fax, scanner,
and printer to an older Gateway computer. Brothers requirements state
USB 2.0 is required. Don't know how to tell what type of USB is in
the computer but since computer was made in 1999 would have to assume
that it has USB 1.0 since USB 2.0 specifications not even completed
until 2000. Tried to look up an upgrade card USB 2.0 PCI to fix
problem BUT all the cards I find in a Google search seem to specify
Windows 98SE not just Windows 98.

Questions:

1. How does one tell what version of USB is installed?

2. Is there some basic difference between 98 and 98SE that would make
these cards not work with regular Windows 98 or is it just that 98 is
so old now they list it as 98SE?

3. Do have another option available if must have Win 98SE to upgrade
and that is to go through a ethernet connection. However top speed
through ethernet is 100 MB while USB 2.0 is 480 mB that is quite a
difference. Would think it would be quite noticeable?
email response not expected but to respond remove .uk at end
TIA
Hank
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 3:26:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Hank" <hgreintges@skybest.com.uk> wrote in message
news:gudh11dh49d3c66qv9c0riuke3c2gbja85@4ax.com...
> I am trying to connect a new Brothers MFC420CN fax, scanner,
> and printer to an older Gateway computer. Brothers requirements state
> USB 2.0 is required. Don't know how to tell what type of USB is in
> the computer but since computer was made in 1999 would have to assume
> that it has USB 1.0 since USB 2.0 specifications not even completed
> until 2000. Tried to look up an upgrade card USB 2.0 PCI to fix
> problem BUT all the cards I find in a Google search seem to specify
> Windows 98SE not just Windows 98.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. How does one tell what version of USB is installed?

Checking for USB 2:
http://www.usbman.com/Guides/checking_for_usb_2.htm

The keyword is "Enhanced"
Right-click My Computer, click Properties, Device Manager tab. Expand the Universal
Serial Bus Controllers category, and see if an "Enhanced" USB Host Controller is
listed. On a machine your age, they are peobably all USB 1.1

>
> 2. Is there some basic difference between 98 and 98SE that would make
> these cards not work with regular Windows 98 or is it just that 98 is
> so old now they list it as 98SE?

USB Hardware 1.0 vs 1.1 Host Controller Issue Explained:
http://www.usbman.com/Guides/USB_version1.0_version1.1....

"A flaw in an early OHCI, USB host controller..... affected mass storage devices,
printers, scanners, and other devices that require data integrity. The OHCI flaw
has been corrected by Microsoft with a work around in Windows98 SE, v
4.10.2222a.......Windows98 First Release versions do not provide the work around for
the OHCI/VHDL core bug."

That said, USB 2.0 drivers are written by the card (or chipset) manufacturer, and
may include both Win98 and Win98SE drivers, so you must check the card's drivers
carefully. Also, even if there are drivers for the card, the peripheral you attach
(or its software) may require Win98SE. In your case that Brother MF printer works
under Win98 or Win98SE, according to its online documentation, so as long as you
find a USB 2.0 PCI card with Win98 FE drivers, you should not have a problem.

>
> 3. Do have another option available if must have Win 98SE to upgrade
> and that is to go through a ethernet connection. However top speed
> through ethernet is 100 MB while USB 2.0 is 480 mB that is quite a
> difference. Would think it would be quite noticeable?

Are you sure you can connect to *only* the Ethernet port without a USB 2.0
connection at all? What do the docs say?
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 6:23:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Hank" <hgreintges@skybest.com.uk> wrote in message
news:gudh11dh49d3c66qv9c0riuke3c2gbja85@4ax.com...

> 3. Do have another option available if must have Win 98SE to upgrade
> and that is to go through a ethernet connection. However top speed
> through ethernet is 100 MB while USB 2.0 is 480 mB that is quite a
> difference. Would think it would be quite noticeable?
> email response not expected but to respond remove .uk at end

Those are theoretical speeds. If you have a modern 10/100 LAN adapter,
and it's duplexed (which most are, these days), it can send and receive,
both, at 100 Mbits/sec with not much loss due to overhead. On the other
hand, USB2 is serial--can only send *or* receive, but not both at once,
and all such transmissions include both sending and receiving. The
actual throughput of USB2 is dependent on many factors. See:
http://www.usb.org/developers/usbfaq/#band1

I can't find a similar discussion of Ethernet 10/100, but my impression
is that it doesn't generally have the kinds of bottleneck problems that
USB has (nor does Firewire, actually, which makes *it* the absolute best
until you start talking about gigabit ethernet.) I recall a recent
conversation between some people who know these kinds of things, and the
upshot is that *if* the USB2 conditions are absolutely favorable, the
max one-way throughput is something like 2 MBytes/sec. (or 80
Mbits/sec). Result is that the two are more or less on par.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
Related resources
February 20, 2005 7:13:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:26:52 -0500, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
wrote:

>"Hank" <hgreintges@skybest.com.uk> wrote in message
>news:gudh11dh49d3c66qv9c0riuke3c2gbja85@4ax.com...
>> I am trying to connect a new Brothers MFC420CN fax, scanner,
>> and printer to an older Gateway computer. Brothers requirements state
>> USB 2.0 is required. Don't know how to tell what type of USB is in
>> the computer but since computer was made in 1999 would have to assume
>> that it has USB 1.0 since USB 2.0 specifications not even completed
>> until 2000. Tried to look up an upgrade card USB 2.0 PCI to fix
>> problem BUT all the cards I find in a Google search seem to specify
>> Windows 98SE not just Windows 98.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> 1. How does one tell what version of USB is installed?
>
>Checking for USB 2:
>http://www.usbman.com/Guides/checking_for_usb_2.htm
>
>The keyword is "Enhanced"
>Right-click My Computer, click Properties, Device Manager tab. Expand the Universal
>Serial Bus Controllers category, and see if an "Enhanced" USB Host Controller is
>listed. On a machine your age, they are peobably all USB 1.1

This is a friend's machine I was writing about but I tried
checking the above on my new Dell 3000 and was surprised to find of
the four USB listed only one says enhanced so I guess the others are
some version of 1.X? Now I am wondering how to tell which one is
where.

>
>>
>> 2. Is there some basic difference between 98 and 98SE that would make
>> these cards not work with regular Windows 98 or is it just that 98 is
>> so old now they list it as 98SE?
>
>USB Hardware 1.0 vs 1.1 Host Controller Issue Explained:
>http://www.usbman.com/Guides/USB_version1.0_version1.1....
>
>"A flaw in an early OHCI, USB host controller..... affected mass storage devices,
>printers, scanners, and other devices that require data integrity. The OHCI flaw
>has been corrected by Microsoft with a work around in Windows98 SE, v
>4.10.2222a.......Windows98 First Release versions do not provide the work around for
>the OHCI/VHDL core bug."
>
>That said, USB 2.0 drivers are written by the card (or chipset) manufacturer, and
>may include both Win98 and Win98SE drivers, so you must check the card's drivers
>carefully. Also, even if there are drivers for the card, the peripheral you attach
>(or its software) may require Win98SE. In your case that Brother MF printer works
>under Win98 or Win98SE, according to its online documentation, so as long as you
>find a USB 2.0 PCI card with Win98 FE drivers, you should not have a problem.

After posting I was reading the fine print in the Brother
manual and came across this: "MFC420 can be connected to a computer
that has a USB 1.1 interface." Also in a foot note to USB 2.0 data
rate 480 meg reads "maximum data transfer rate will be 12 MB/S" So a
USB 2.0 is a definite overkill.
Thanks for the responses. Will try firing up on the old USB
port when I get back there. In the mean time learned something new
about my PC.


>
>>
>> 3. Do have another option available if must have Win 98SE to upgrade
>> and that is to go through a ethernet connection. However top speed
>> through ethernet is 100 MB while USB 2.0 is 480 mB that is quite a
>> difference. Would think it would be quite noticeable?
>
>Are you sure you can connect to *only* the Ethernet port without a USB 2.0
>connection at all? What do the docs say?

email response not expected but to respond remove .uk at end
TIA
Hank
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 7:56:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Hank <hgreintges@skybest.com.uk> wrote in
news:gudh11dh49d3c66qv9c0riuke3c2gbja85@4ax.com:

> I am trying to connect a new Brothers MFC420CN fax, scanner,
> and printer to an older Gateway computer. Brothers requirements state
> USB 2.0 is required. Don't know how to tell what type of USB is in
> the computer but since computer was made in 1999 would have to assume
> that it has USB 1.0 since USB 2.0 specifications not even completed
> until 2000. Tried to look up an upgrade card USB 2.0 PCI to fix
> problem BUT all the cards I find in a Google search seem to specify
> Windows 98SE not just Windows 98.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. How does one tell what version of USB is installed?

Go to device manager. When there's an 'Enhanced USB Host controller' or
something like that, you've got USB 2.0. But in your case you can safely
presume that you've got USB 1.1

> 2. Is there some basic difference between 98 and 98SE that would make
> these cards not work with regular Windows 98 or is it just that 98 is
> so old now they list it as 98SE?

As far as I know the main difference between 98 and 98 SE is an enhanced
USB support. I don't know if that means that 98 cannot run USB 2.0, but if
you can only get drivers for SE, you're stuck.

> 3. Do have another option available if must have Win 98SE to upgrade
> and that is to go through a ethernet connection. However top speed
> through ethernet is 100 MB while USB 2.0 is 480 mB that is quite a
> difference. Would think it would be quite noticeable?

Maybe in scanner mode, but I don't think so. In all other cases the data
stream will be below 100 Mbit/s.
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 11:51:59 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

The USB port configuration might be a BIOS setting - this is often provided
for compatibility with older peripherals.
--
Jeff Richards
MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
"Hank" <hgreintges@skybest.com.uk> wrote in message
news:m7uh11ptnh3ja7vh6jbsdgdaa0uhkr46cm@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:26:52 -0500, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
> wrote:
> snip <
>
> This is a friend's machine I was writing about but I tried
> checking the above on my new Dell 3000 and was surprised to find of
> the four USB listed only one says enhanced so I guess the others are
> some version of 1.X? Now I am wondering how to tell which one is
> where.
>
!