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74GB 10K RAPTOR VS. SATA 150 RAID 0

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  • Hard Drives
  • NAS / RAID
  • Configuration
  • Raptor
  • SATA
  • Storage
Last response: in Storage
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April 20, 2006 6:39:05 PM

After hours of research seems no one else has tried what I'm about to try tonight...

Current Configuration:
Asus P5VDC-MX Mobo
Pentium D805 2.6GHz
2GB DDR2 RAM 533MHz
2 - WD 120GB SATA 150's in RAID 0
WindowsXP Pro

After Today:
Asus P5VDC-MX Mobo
Pentium D805 2.6GHz
2GB DDR2 RAM 533MHz
1 - Raptor 74GB 10K RPM SATA
2 - WD 120GB SATA 150's in RAID 0
WindowsXP Media Center loaded on my Raptor and then use the RAID 0 as my backup and temp files...yeah I know...Raid 0 as back up probably not a good idea, but I'm going to keep copies of all on Raptor also...

I've read a lot on this and some say the SATA Raid 0 is faster than 1 Raptor alone...Other's say a Raptor is much faster if you avg out all the read and write times it's a better way to go than Raid 0 config...I was tired of worrying about data loss with my RAID 0 config and wanted to keep the speed of raid so I got the Raptor. I'll post the results..right now with the CURRENT config, it takes 15 min to install Win XP Pro with SP1 and 2 and updates....this is really the only way for me to test the configurations without running benchmark software, that would take too long to load and get up and running...

Well there are a lot of people with opinions about this but I wasn't able to find someone that actually tried this. It get's expensive but I guess if we all post the little info we can come up with we can all make better choices about the hardware we buy.

More about : 74gb 10k raptor sata 150 raid

April 20, 2006 8:53:01 PM

Quote:
After hours of research seems no one else has tried what I'm about to try tonight...

Current Configuration:
Asus P5VDC-MX Mobo
Pentium D805 2.6GHz
2GB DDR2 RAM 533MHz
2 - WD 120GB SATA 150's in RAID 0
WindowsXP Pro

After Today:
Asus P5VDC-MX Mobo
Pentium D805 2.6GHz
2GB DDR2 RAM 533MHz
1 - Raptor 74GB 10K RPM SATA
2 - WD 120GB SATA 150's in RAID 0
WindowsXP Media Center loaded on my Raptor and then use the RAID 0 as my backup and temp files...yeah I know...Raid 0 as back up probably not a good idea, but I'm going to keep copies of all on Raptor also...

I've read a lot on this and some say the SATA Raid 0 is faster than 1 Raptor alone...Other's say a Raptor is much faster if you avg out all the read and write times it's a better way to go than Raid 0 config...I was tired of worrying about data loss with my RAID 0 config and wanted to keep the speed of raid so I got the Raptor. I'll post the results..right now with the CURRENT config, it takes 15 min to install Win XP Pro with SP1 and 2 and updates....this is really the only way for me to test the configurations without running benchmark software, that would take too long to load and get up and running...

Well there are a lot of people with opinions about this but I wasn't able to find someone that actually tried this. It get's expensive but I guess if we all post the little info we can come up with we can all make better choices about the hardware we buy.


From my immense experience with Raptors and RAID 0's (especially of SATA's) I can GUARANTEE you the SATA's have lower access times and higher throughput. You'll likely see:

6-8ms access time for RAID 0
11ms for single Raptor (All dozen+ Raptors I've used had the same speed)

Once the Raptors get RAID'd, the access time drops to 4ms, which is astounding. A Single Raptor 74GB gets no more than 71MB/s Read/Write (69MB/s Average) and the RAID 0 is GUARANTEED to get 85MB/s MINIMUM, with Sub-100MB/s and ~100MB/s possible. You can't judge how fast Windows installs as a benchmark, as it's only as fast as the CD. I have a 160GB WD w/ 2MB Cache install as fast as a Raptor, so don't use that as a test.

The RAID 0 is much better, if you can, sell that Raptor and buy another SATA, the 3 in RAID 0 will be great as hell.

~~Mad Mod Mike, fixin' the world 1 rig at a time
April 21, 2006 12:01:02 AM

This comparo has already been done "by professionals" whose job it is to test STUFF.

Check this link from THG HERE

I put ya to the end of the comparo where they tell the conclusions but please read as it is a great article that is well done.

This has much more info than a bunch of people saying yeah raid0 is faster...

The comparo already has the 74gb Raptor in the mix as well so you will have direct info to use. Of course the main article is for the new 150gb version but look at the charts and you will get a good idea where the 74 places.

Hope this helps..
Related resources
April 21, 2006 2:01:44 AM

Hey Mikey,

While you were at it why did ya not tell him to make sure he stores all of his critical data on the Raid0 as well!!

That way he could be TOTALLY misinformed.

I do agree with you that two Raptors in Raid0 would be a thing of beauty though.

or

2X15K SCSI drives in Raid0 ---- Drool!!

I'll take two Atlas 15K rpm drives and a side of fries please!
April 21, 2006 6:27:12 AM

Quote:
Application I/O utilization is what matters here and two 7200RPM RAID0 looses out to a single Raptor(either 74GB or 150GB).

From my immense experience with Raptors and RAID 0's (especially of SATA's) I can GUARANTEE you the SATA's have lower access times and higher throughput

That is just so wrong.

Quote:
A Single Raptor 74GB gets no more than 71MB/s Read/Write (69MB/s Average) and the RAID 0 is GUARANTEED to get 85MB/s MINIMUM, with Sub-100MB/s and ~100MB/s possible.

Real world I/O performance is very different with application. That shouldn't even be used as an comparison.

Yea, you're right, the 20 some Raptors I've used in Multiple Workstations and Servers, along with the HUNDREDS of RAID's I've used, means I don't know what I'm talking about, okay Wusy, thanks for playing, but you lose....

@Ches: HAHA! Damn that's funny, where do you get your material? You know they say "Women age like fine wine" but as Walter says "Ches111 ages like Milk", ahahA! Damn that's funny.

~~Mad Mod Mike, fixin' the world 1 rig at a time
April 21, 2006 2:13:41 PM

Ok well this site http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/02/06/wd1500ad_raptor_...
Puts my mind at ease that I made the right choise...along with my testing from last night.

Raptor 74GB SATA150 IS Faster than RAID 0 for those of us doing everyday things, internet, word, music and some lite video editing. I did notice a faster load time of my movie files when using RAID 0, but as far as load times for windows, opening internet pages, RAPTOR is the way to go. I also want to mention that I ran the install of Windows Media Center Three times last night just to test, and also ran Fresh Diagnose Benchmarks, the Raptor has very high read speeds, my programs load so much faster than Raid0...so for those of you looking for an alt. or a faster system, go get the 74GBRaptor from Tiger it's only $119 now with rebates until April 30 '06...one by it'self out performes in everyday tasks SATA RAID 0...all the benchmark numbers are nice to know and make you feel warm and fuzzy inside about your drive, but until you see it working you'll never know...

Thanks for your suggestions and help...sorry dude with all the experiance with Raptors, but with my setup Raptor was just better than Raid 0, I'm still using the Raid 0 though seems stable for now, but keeping backup of files anyway...thanks
April 21, 2006 3:54:01 PM

OK so TechBuy81,

What you are saying is you found similar results to what was posted in the professional article by THG.

Man that is astonishing?? :-)

Mikey, you caught what he said right? He agrees with what was posted by the pros. Go figure. THG was right on something that went against what Mikey said - NO WAY.

Mikey this is Too easy and Too fun... Later
April 21, 2006 4:03:05 PM

Yes my results were right on with what the PRO's said, and I'm very happy with my Raptor, I just wish I woudln't be stuck here at work having to wait to go home, last night i only had a chance to install windows and that was it..it got too late...my job is getting in the way of my hobby.
April 21, 2006 5:42:14 PM

I understand and also feel your pain :-)

I recently moved wireless carriers and bought the VX-6700 phone from verizon. This phone with data plan is incredible (I get a discount cause I work for them :-))

The thing is you can HACK anything about the phone and make it do something new nearly everyday. I have had it for over a month now and still find new ways to improve its look/performance/abilities nearly every day.

So it is the same thing as with you... Not enough time to play (I mean WORK on my new toy).

Cheer up the weekend is at hand :-) (unless you work weekends)
April 21, 2006 6:53:27 PM

Quote:
OK so TechBuy81,

What you are saying is you found similar results to what was posted in the professional article by THG.

Man that is astonishing?? :-)

Mikey, you caught what he said right? He agrees with what was posted by the pros. Go figure. THG was right on something that went against what Mikey said - NO WAY.

Mikey this is Too easy and Too fun... Later


That last part made me laugh, I enjoy reading posts from people such as yourself trying to hide your insecurity and rubbishness with posts such as "Pros" and "This is too easy" etc., Wow, thank you for typing that, I really needed that to get my day going. The part that dumbfounded me was "pros", I assume you're referring to you and wusy....hmmm....Wusy is in College (so he claims) so he's out of the "Pro" arena, you're an idiot who doesn't understand hard drives, so your "Pro" status has been revoked, sorry, gotta call the IPSA (Your feeble mind won't understand what that means) and get it back, only costs $10, shouldn't be too much for a boy of your stature.

PS: I really don't care what Toms or anybody says, I've worked on thousands of Servers and Workstations with Raptors and RAID's, I know what's faster.

~~Mad Mod Mike, fixin' the world 1 rig at a time
April 21, 2006 7:04:33 PM

Wow, so you come on tomshardware just to find things that will help you get through your day? You expect someone to go on your opinion, in your post you had no data no examples or numbers to back up what you said...and it was all..."Oh yeah I have worked on hundreds of drives and this and that and just because I say so Raid 0 is better.." These guys "pros" actually had the drives, did the testing, showed the numbers, ran the software/benchmarks...I did similar tests and guess what my info was the same as what they found...who do you think people are going to believe or go to for answers..YOU? The One Rig At a Time guy? Get with it man, Multitasking, I've been working on my "rig" and running other tests to make sure I'm setting it up for performance...you work on one at a time and go on opinion and think you know it all cause you've worked on 100's of drives? how many have you burned out or crashed cause...YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING...get alife and stop wasting our time..dont post here anymore or on Toms people need real answers not opinions or thoughs on what you say you've done...I can sit here and say..OH YEAH ONE RIG AT A TIME, I'VE WORKED ON 100'S OF THESE..NO WAY MAN got to have the data to back it up and I'm telling you Fact...Raptor 10K 74GB will beat out a 7200RPM Raid 0 config, I tested it and came with these results and so did the Pros...Anyone else agree?
April 21, 2006 7:08:31 PM

Quote:
Wow, so you come on tomshardware just to find things that will help you get through your day? You expect someone to go on your opinion, in your post you had no data no examples or numbers to back up what you said...and it was all..."Oh yeah I have worked on hundreds of drives and this and that and just because I say so Raid 0 is better.." These guys "pros" actually had the drives, did the testing, showed the numbers, ran the software/benchmarks...I did similar tests and guess what my info was the same as what they found...who do you think people are going to believe or go to for answers..YOU? The One Rig At a Time guy? Get with it man, Multitasking, I've been working on my "rig" and running other tests to make sure I'm setting it up for performance...you work on one at a time and go on opinion and think you know it all cause you've worked on 100's of drives? how many have you burned out or crashed cause...YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING...get alife and stop wasting our time..dont post here anymore or on Toms people need real answers not opinions or thoughs on what you say you've done...I can sit here and say..OH YEAH ONE RIG AT A TIME, I'VE WORKED ON 100'S OF THESE..NO WAY MAN got to have the data to back it up and I'm telling you Fact...Raptor 10K 74GB will beat out a 7200RPM Raid 0 config, I tested it and came with these results and so did the Pros...Anyone else agree?


You: "so you come on tomshardware just to find things that will help you get through your day?" - No but I think you needed to rant to help yourself.

Sheesh, another idiot.....oh god :roll:

~~Mad Mod Mike, fixin' the world 1 rig at a time
April 21, 2006 7:12:50 PM

No, not ranting, but I wanted to help you out, dont keep making the same mistakes you know...making yourself look like an idiot...you kept arguing that your an expert and that you know because of your years and 100's of drives of experiance and yet you didn't know that a raptor can outperform a raid 0 config...just quit now man dont keep embarrasing yourself...it's funny how you sat there waiting for my reply though, lol, have a lot of time on your hands for a guy who works on so many drives and has so much experiance...i'm at work so i've got time to kill :-) what's your excuse mr expert?...one rig at a time...lol
April 21, 2006 7:17:02 PM

Quote:
No, not ranting, but I wanted to help you out, dont keep making the same mistakes you know...making yourself look like an idiot...you kept arguing that your an expert and that you know because of your years and 100's of drives of experiance and yet you didn't know that a raptor can outperform a raid 0 config...just quit now man dont keep embarrasing yourself...it's funny how you sat there waiting for my reply though, lol, have a lot of time on your hands for a guy who works on so many drives and has so much experiance...i'm at work so i've got time to kill :-) what's your excuse mr expert?...one rig at a time...lol


How about I just got home? Doesn't work? hmmm....

I'm embarressing myself? Who am I to be embarressed about? You? Ches? AHAHAHA, that tickles my tummy, I fancy reading your posts, please, respond to this post so I may enjoy another laugh.

~~Mad Mod MIke, fixin' the world 1 rig at a time
April 21, 2006 7:23:53 PM

oh man...what a sad story, i'll stop making fun now..sorry i thought you were kidding but sounds like your serious...nice day out like today and you come home and sit infront of your computer? I'm at work, like i said nothing better to do...but you...just got home and your waiting for me to respond? will this be the highlight of your day? I hope it gives you a laugh, cause i dont think you have much going for you if i were to stop responding...sorry man i'll leave you alone, but you should really try going outside and making friends leave your keyboard and mouse for an hour or so...later geek
April 21, 2006 7:27:16 PM

Quote:
oh man...what a sad story, i'll stop making fun now..sorry i thought you were kidding but sounds like your serious...nice day out like today and you come home and sit infront of your computer? I'm at work, like i said nothing better to do...but you...just got home and your waiting for me to respond? will this be the highlight of your day? I hope it gives you a laugh, cause i dont think you have much going for you if i were to stop responding...sorry man i'll leave you alone, but you should really try going outside and making friends leave your keyboard and mouse for an hour or so...later geek


By "Doesn't Work" I meant "does that not work for you?" but oh well...

Hey, did you know Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition runs on 25MB of RAM? It's pretty slow, but it works.

~~Mad Mod Mike, fixin' the world 1 rig at a time
April 21, 2006 7:48:51 PM

Hey Mikey,

Glad to see you are your good old self.

Just to clarify,

I was talking about the PROs at THG. I was not referencing Myself or Wusy.

I provided facts from PROs not from the "I think" category like yourself.

Again too easy. If being an idiot means "in this case" being right SIGN ME UP.

You know I have feelings and if I cared about what you thought about me that would have really hurt :LOL

Mikey the weekend is coming hope you have a good one ....
April 21, 2006 8:18:34 PM

That was a good read..
April 21, 2006 8:22:08 PM

We've done the RAID vs single here many times. Bottom line is: if you're gonna surf the net, messengers and light tasks, don't wast $$ on a RAID. If you're gonna use the piss out of your PC like I do, RAID all the way. Just remember to BU often when using stripe mode.
April 21, 2006 8:23:39 PM

Way back when I used to use only the DeskStar Series since they could not be beat in the Ultra Wide SCSI II world. But back then they were the IBM Deskstar not the Hitachi..

I beleive it was an Adaptec 2940 Ultra Wide SCSI II controller too... Man that machine was fast for its time :-)

SATA has a lot to offer and you can finally start realizing the potential of the interface using multiple drives in Raid0 which now ships with many MBs "gotta love that".

I want to do the four drive Raid 5 thing on my next build but i am afraid the heat might kill my desire to do this since I will be building an EVERYTHING PC. I would call it a HTPC but I intend to use it for far more than that.
April 21, 2006 8:32:49 PM

Get a good, roomy case with lots of space for the HD's, like a Lian Li. Plenty of fans, great airflow. Heat is a killer, get it first ;) 
April 21, 2006 8:40:06 PM

I suspect the onboard controller has a lot to do with RAID gains. Some implementations can cause a serious amount of overhead.

We were building a large indexed DB that had to support up to 8 threaded simultaneous queries that returned all results in no more than 1s.

When accessing the disk array we wanted to use a Raid5 stack for hot swap capability. This was a nice aftermarket array that had the ability to quickly rebuild a hot swapped drive back into the array (big deal back then).

We ended up sacrificing the hot swap abilities for the sake of overall performance. We switched from Raid 5 using ADVFS (advanced file system) and went to a stripped UFS model. The overhead on the ADVFS was a clear performance drag.

So i guess to make a long story longer you can easily make a good performing Raid array slower than moses if you try hard enough.
April 21, 2006 8:46:17 PM

Quote:
After Today:
Asus P5VDC-MX Mobo
Pentium D805 2.6GHz
2GB DDR2 RAM 533MHz
1 - Raptor 74GB 10K RPM SATA
2 - WD 120GB SATA 150's in RAID 0

I have a question do you play games or use you computer for large databases? If you use your PC to play games a fast hard drive is waste of money that would be better spend else were. I would buy 2GB extra of ram to make a software base solid state drive. No matter what kind or how many hard drives you have you never see performance the likes unless you go all out for a hardware based SSD.
April 21, 2006 8:47:16 PM

Yeah was looking at an Antec P180 since the HD cage and the PSU are separated from the rest of the interior similar to the Lian.

I also like the Antec TruePower series PSs they have been goo to me :-)

I was trying to think ahead and built the shelving in my Media closet such that a larger case could fit. Ventilation to the closet will be THE issue.
April 21, 2006 8:52:14 PM

That'll work nicely.
April 21, 2006 8:53:54 PM

Not entirely true. Load FEAR on an old 10 GD HD, add that 2 GB RAM, let's see how it plays. :wink:
April 21, 2006 8:54:27 PM

Don't cry Ches, it's okay.

~~Mad Mod Mike, fixin' the world 1 rig at a time
April 21, 2006 9:53:12 PM

Thanks mike for the input...
Glad you can contribute :-)
April 21, 2006 10:02:08 PM

Quote:
Thanks mike for the input...
Glad you can contribute :-)


You're just jealous that you don't have that crying picture! :p 

~~Mad Mod Mike, fixin' the world 1 rig at a time
April 21, 2006 10:07:04 PM

For a while there you did'nt either :-)

You are right though.... I am jealous of you....

I'm sure everyone here at THG is... :roll: :roll: :roll:
April 21, 2006 10:34:06 PM

By the way Mikey,

I am reading up on the Yonah... Not a bad little performer... ;-)
April 22, 2006 11:38:20 PM

Quote:
Not entirely true. Load FEAR on an old 10 GD HD, add that 2 GB RAM, let's see how it plays.

I see you like stacking the odds but with that kind of test the memory would need to be at the extreme minimum with a raptor drive so less put the min amount of memory for fear on your test system. I would say with that change your system would suck more than the one you suggested for me. With a 40Giga WD drive and the 4 GB, 2Giga SSD, memory would beat a raptor with only 2 Giga.
April 23, 2006 4:51:52 PM

Quote:
Problem is FEAR doesn't use over 2GB. The reason why you put 2GB for games like FEAR is because it uses over 1GB and dual-channel wise 2x1GB is the optimum option.
Even 1.5GB will do.

So make the software Solid State drive 3Giga and load as much of fear as will fit and it'll make a fast drive near worthless. wusy, you may need to read my previous posts or you need a understand how SSD will make use of the remainder for the memory.
April 25, 2006 9:39:30 PM

Quote:
Oh, my bad.

Try http://www.cenatek.com/product_ramdisk.cfm which costs, but saves an image before shutdown or the free RAMDisk.tk with no saving image.
Faster and more economical than current solid state storage solutions.

No problem and thanks for the link prices have really came down for software SSD's. The last time I looked it costed around 109.99 and only worked for XP pro.
!