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DFI LanParty UT DR Expert...Expectations and Your Thoughts

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April 21, 2006 3:29:57 PM

Hey There...I picked this board up to try some oc'ing on...Here's my current setup, and a list of other available parts...

Latest Settings TCCD: http://home.comcast.net/~apesoccer/oc/Expert_Dec05bios.htm

Basic Setup:
Mobo: DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR Expert
Bios Rev: 1.0 12/07/05
CPU: 3500+ E4:Venice 1.3v version (full cpu revision at bottom)
VCore: 1.3v (stock)
HTT: Auto (LDT/FSB Freq Ratio)
CPU Multi: 11
HSF: Stock (i may decide to go water...or just a better hsf)
PSU: Sparkle FSP550-60PLG (slightly different model then the one in my asus rig)
HD: 30gb Maxtor junk drive
GPU: PCI slot, geforce 4 420 64mb

Currently Disabled:
-Marvell 1gb ethernet (disabled in bios)
-onbd snd (disabled in bios)
-raid and all sata ports (disabled in bios)
-Terminal Services (disabled in msconfig)
-Indexing Service (disabled in msconfig)
-Error Reporting (disabled in msconfig)
-Event Log (disabled in msconfig)
-Help and Support (disabled in msconfig)
-Telephony (disabled in msconfig)
-Themes (disabled in msconfig)
-Uninteruptable Power Supply (disabled in msconfig)
-Automatic Updates (disabled in msconfig)
-Adj Best Perf (system properties)
-Removed xtra fonts (fonts folder)
-Moved HD to Pri Master
-defragged
-fdc, irda, ide slave 0 and 1 (disabled in bios)


Available or Semi-Available Parts:
-Asus A8n-sli Premium (Primary)
-3800+ X2 (Asus)
-2x1024 OCZ 3200 Platnium (Asus)
-2x6800GT's XFX (Asus)
-100gb WD (Asus)
-XP90 (Asus)

-EPOX EP-9NPAJ 939 (Secondary)
-3000+ Winchester (Epox)
-2x1024 OCZ 3200 Gold (Epox)
-36gb WD raptor (Epox)
-120gb 8mb WD (Epox)
-1x6800GS EVGA (Epox)

-DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR Expert (Backup)
-3500+ E4 (DFI)
-2x512 TCCD Patriot XBLK (DFI)
-PCI Gforce 4 420 (DFI)
-Maxtor 30gb (DFI)

-92mm Tornado (not in use)
-Jetway 939/SLI (not in use)
-2x512 CH-6 HyperX (not in use)

Stock Run 1x512 HyperX:
-32m SuperPi: 36min 12sec

Stock Run 2x512 HyperX:
-32m SuperPi: 33min 53sec
-PCMark04: 3561
-PCMark05: 1778
-3DMark01: 3574
-SiSoft Memory BW: Int: 5750 Float: 5690
-Aquamark 3: 3026 (GFX 306; CPU 11482)

Stock Run 2x512 Patriot:
-32m SuperPi: 33min 47sec
-PCMark04:
-PCMark05:
-3DMark01:
-SiSoft Memory BW: Int: 5787 Float: 5725
-Aquamark 3: (GFX ; CPU )

Full CPU Revision:
model number: ADA3500DKA4CG
core description: E4
5-letter code: CDBHE
week-code: 0546
4-letter code: XPMW
13-letter code: 1366276K50213
April 21, 2006 3:45:07 PM

Initial Responses:

In my original setup, i only had a 20-pin psu (which also didn't have the 8-pin so-called p4 pwr), so i plugged in the 20-pin and a 4-pin in to the 24-pin and 8-pin slots, as many other people have done. (I have now updated to the Sparkle supply, which has the 24-pin and 8-pin connectors).

When i first tried to post, the memory wouldn't work correctly (in the 1st and 3rd Orange slots). I took out 1 of the memory sticks, and still had issues. After changing the slot, from the first to the third slot with the single 512 stick, it booted (it did not work in the second slot either). I then changed the stock memory settings to what I've said are my regular settings above... Now both memory sticks work (1st and 3rd [orange slots]). I had read up a bit on this, so i expected I could run in to this kind of issue. I'm currently running Memtest86+ v1.65 which is included in the bios with both sticks and dc mode with the exact same timings as listed above. Passed MemTest 1x...now booting in to Windows and rerunning SuperPi and running the Futuremark suite.
April 21, 2006 3:57:28 PM

Overclocking the Expert...

This was a little more difficult then i thought it was going to be, there are alot more nobs to fiddle with then what i am used to. But thats half the fun =D. I'm really happy with how far 1.5v was able to go...2.8ghz...I wasn't hoping for so much on this stock hsf. The temps on this guy are maxing out around 50c, i could easily bring that down a ways with a better cooling solution, but for now, it's enough.


Hardware:
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR Expert
3500+ E4
Stock HSF
2x512 TCCD Patriot XBLK
PCI Gforce 4 420
Maxtor 30gb

Max Multiplier Settings (32m Stable Only)
Divider: 1:1
CPU Multi: 11
CPU VCore: 1.5v
FSB: 255
MHZ: 2850mhz
Mem Bus: 255
Mem Timings: 2.5 3 3 10 3 3 1T
Mem V: 2.87v

Highest Mem Bus Settings (32m Stable Only)
Divider:
CPU Multi:
CPU VCore:
FSB:
MHZ:
Mem Bus:
Mem Timings:
Mem V:

Highest Overall MHz Settings (32m Stable Only)
Divider:
CPU Multi:
CPU VCore:
FSB:
MHZ:
Mem Bus:
Mem Timings:
Mem V:

Advanced Settings:
This is the same link as the earlier ones:
http://home.comcast.net/~apesoccer/oc/Expert_Dec05bios.htm
Related resources
April 21, 2006 4:17:03 PM

Alright I have one question, how the hell is your ram running at 1.8V? I think you mean 2.8v. At 1.8v your RAM should be starving for power.

I have almost the same general setup as you. I would expect your Venice to hit 2.7-2.8ghz. You are going to have to add a few ticks to the vcore to get there though.

your RAM has to be in the Orange slots if you want to run it in 1T timings.

Your main source of stability will be in the RAM timings section on the bottom set of option, you will find Data Drive Strength and Drive strength (i believe). Finding the combination that fits your ram will take time, alot of time.

This is a very tempermental board. I have had mine for 4 months and I still dont fully understand it. I've been trying for 6 weeks to get my Venice to go past 2750Mhz but it just won't budge. I wouldn't suggest going water unless you plan on cooling the NB and the CPU. If you do, do not forget to mount a fan to cool off the voltage regulators, which should allow even higher clocks.

Lets see what else.... idk Ill post back later when i remember more lol.

Careful each board has its own personality 8O
April 21, 2006 4:48:35 PM

First, thx for the tips!!! I'll fix the written error of 1.8v...my mistake!

I expect to take this pretty slow...I also expect to use the current ram for only a little while...I'll be moving in the TCCD since i've already tested it solid up to 330+fsb (on two other boards...and i expect it can do better here...we'll see...). Before purchasing this board, i printed out about 100 pages worth of material to go over, from other people's oc's on this board and the older dfi nf4 series. I realize i won't be able to use all of the settings from the nf4 series, but it gives me a range to shoot for, for alot of the different settings. Any extra information you want to throw at me, i'll gobble up heh.

Extra Info...like what bios revision you're running? =D
April 26, 2006 5:42:28 PM

Edited and removed...
April 26, 2006 6:10:19 PM

HEh I have the exact same mobo, that U have. But I had to upgrade my psu 8O
Whatever the manual says, YOU really need to have. No converters or anything like that. A great mobo, but it really is power hungry. :twisted:
April 26, 2006 7:51:41 PM

Yea i'm running a 550w 24pin and 8-pin (specific to this board + p4 systems), i picked it specificially for this system. =( I haven't seen anyone having trouble with this fortron/sparkle psu. It's specificially:
Model NO: FSP550-60PLG...And i have less drain on this system then most people do...since i'm running a pci video card (rather then a pci-e card).

I have two of them...(edit: sparkle psu's)

I also have a Enermax 24pin, but it's known to have issues with this board. Thx for the heads up though!

This board runs like a champ with my ch-5 ram thrown in...just has issues with my TCCD. heh.(edit: see below, tccd issues fixed...)
April 26, 2006 8:02:20 PM

I like my FSP GLN-600 ( i think thats the model # :p  ).

At least you have a known type of memory. My Mushkin is some crazy ass Infenion brand, none of this TCCD/BH-5 crap. Its so strange because its hard to find settings for a type of RAM that I have never heard of/used before. In fact I don't think I've seen anyone else really even using my RAM with this MOBO 8O

Oh the webs I weave
April 27, 2006 3:29:37 AM

Quote:
There are TCCD tweaked BIOS over at DFI-Street for the Expert.


Now if they just created some for Infineon based memory I would be good to go :( 
April 27, 2006 3:34:52 PM

So it turns out i didn't know what i was doing as well as i thought i did...=)

I got some help over at the dfi forums area...Here's what i've done so far now...Solid at stock...soon to be overclocking...Trying to find fastest timings now...

Updated Link:
http://home.comcast.net/~apesoccer/oc/Expert_Dec05bios.xls
April 27, 2006 4:10:59 PM

First thing is first drop back to November bios, they are more stable if you have SLI. :o 

Memory voltage could be upped a bit to 2.85-2.9
TRC/TRFC should be within 2-4 clocks of each other
tref can be dropped 16/32
DRAM Str and DRAM Data Dr Str is just hit and miss combination, mine is level 0 level 8
Max Async lat is fairly fast.
DRAM REsponse time should prob be on Fast or Fastest
Your reall pushing the preamble time.


My question is how did you determine where the problem area is? I'd love to know whats crashing my DFI Xpert lol.
April 27, 2006 4:50:18 PM

As you'll notice, the pink areas, are areas i *think* are problem areas...but i'm not absolutely certain of. The brown areas are the only ones i'm fairly certain of. I think, the only area, that i could say for sure was one specific thing, was the 9ns...Because i changed two settings, 1 was from 8 to 9ns, and the other was from fast to slow. I ran, 9ns and slow, as well as 8ns and slow and 8ns and fast...9ns wouldn't even boot...So it was imo, a direct cause of crashes.

The other brown area, going from cl 2 to cl 2.5 caused the computer not to boot...Retesting at 2, and then later 3, did not cause the computer not to boot. It not working at 2.5 was probably influenced by other factors as well, but that it would boot at 2 and not 2.5...says there's something odd there to me. Now, i wouldn't carry that over to different settings on different mobo's with dif cpus and memory heh...I'm fairly certain that setting, and it's change alone, caused the crash (::given the other settings::) .
edit: cl 2.5 and 3, needed an additional timings change in order to run...Read Preamble Time to 6ns from 5ns.

This link comes up a little faster for me...And should help out people that don't have office...
http://home.comcast.net/~apesoccer/oc/Expert_Dec05bios.htm
April 27, 2006 8:08:32 PM

Impressive tracking of bios settings my man. I just kind of feel my way through it. Changing an option here and there, getting a feel for what number will work and what won't.

What i do know is my ram absolutely hates Low Data DR Str and Odd number Data str. It also only likes 3-3-2-8 settings.

My cpu doesn't like anything over 2700mhz but I can force it up with voltage lol. Not smart but watercooling helps. I wish I had an opty 170. I think the voltage regulators may be getting a little warm, along with the NB so I plan on fixing that by the end of May.

Also the wake on mouse move or keyboard strike doesn't work. The power and reset buttons on the board are lovely. I do wish MS would get rid of the need for Floppy raid drivers. All in all I am very happy with the board. Course an Asus would be less trouble but but I like how tempermental this board is. Shows spunk LOL 8O

I haven't figured out the real point of the skew value? could you let me in on that secret?
April 27, 2006 8:44:02 PM

This is a copy/Paste Job from http://www.lostcircuits.com

"It is true that lower voltage swings enable higher freqencies but after a certain point, the ramping of the voltages will show a significant skew. The skew can be reduced by increased drive strength, however, with the drawback of a voltage overshoot/undershoot at the rising and falling edges, respectively. One additional problem with high frequency signaling is the phenonmenon of trace delays. The solution in DDR was to add clock forwarding in form of a simple data stobe. DDR II takes things further by introducing a bidirectional, differential I/O buffer strobe consisting of DQS and /DQS as pull-up and pull-down signals. Differential means that the two signals are measured against each other instaed of using a simple strobe signal and a reference point. In theory the pull-up and pull-down signals should be mirror-symmetric to each other but reality shows otherwise. That means that there will be skew-induced delays to reaching the output high and low voltages (VOH and VOL) and the cross points between DQS and /DQS used for clock forwarding will not necessarily conincide with the DQ crossing the reverence voltage (Vref) or even be consistent from one clock to the next. The mismatch between clock and data reference points is referred to as the DQ-DQS skew."

So...I guess it allows for irregularites between the peaks and pits of the VOH and VOL, as compared to the reference DQ... (i have no idea what i just said...). So, the "skew", is that distance or difference... You can Increase it or Decrease it... According to some info i have, "Decrease = slower, Increase = Faster..." Not very helpful... If i find the link to the original, i'll give it to you.
April 27, 2006 8:51:39 PM

Sounds like it came of the OC guide on DFi-Street. I read it and it didn't make a lick of sense so I was hoping you had a better insight than I. :p 
April 27, 2006 9:08:15 PM

Quote:
But yea...i have very little actual understanding of that setting. heh.


Ahhh I see we are in the same boat 8O
April 27, 2006 10:13:08 PM

I just put my DFI system together and am installing OS now.

CMS TO1

STF-BO1-E1 Cros Flow Fan

PC P&C 510-ADL

DFI Expert

Optron 146 (boxed) 90nm

G.Skill 4000USU2-2GBHZ (UCCC chips)

Thermalright SI-120

SilverStone FM121 HS/case fans (110 CFM ea)....with rear case grill removed.

Sunbeam RHK-BA fan controler

I ordered AS 5 but it was not in my box so untill the mail brings it I am useing the TIM that came with the SI-120.

I also have the Evercool VC-RE that will replace the stock NB cooler when I get the AS 5.

Useing this same nic on the DFI forums.
April 27, 2006 10:48:46 PM

Maximum PC did a test of AS 5 v normal pastes and such and the results were rather suprising. At best AS5 gives you 1C better temps , maybe 3C compared to off brand in house made crap. The best thing you can do is to seat the heatsink evenly and flush more than what paste you use. Nothign against AS5, I use it, but imo its not worth waiting to build a system with. I know you said you weren't waiting but hey Just my 2 cents. :D 
April 28, 2006 12:54:48 PM

Cool, if you guys want to add your own tabs to that worksheet i've been working on, you're welcome to. Just copy and paste the same format, if you're interested. You're welcome to add your own programs you've used to test your timings with as well. You should be able to save the .xml page. I can upload it when you guys are done, if you want.
April 28, 2006 3:08:08 PM

Damn it now I have to go into the BIOS and write down all my settings..... lol

not a problem, I'll do it today when I install my 2 new 7900GTX's. I am so stoked about them it is ridiculous. Mainly because when I sent in my 7800GTX's for Step Up one was broken and both were missing screws in the ACS3 cooling because I had water blocks on them and lost some screws 8O

Edit: Well I broke down and bought a TT Big Typhoon to hold me over till I can afford watercooling... now if UPS would just come.
April 28, 2006 6:00:16 PM

lol...If i'd stop buying crap, i might be able to afford some newer gpu's...but i probably won't upgrade for some time. I've got 2 6800gt's and a 6800gs. Then there's that pci card on my dfi board heh.
April 28, 2006 6:32:40 PM

I used to have a 6800 GT and those thing still hold their own. The only reason I upgraded from 6800GT was that I had an AGP version and I moved to the AMD platform which was PCI-e so yeah.... that doesn't match lol.
April 28, 2006 6:55:58 PM

Yeh I know...AS 5 only does about 1 C,then again thats 18 F!

Anyhow I just put it together with the stuff that came with the Thermalright SI-120 and started playing with it.


From the top down:
(all tests @ 1.4 volts on cpu/2.8 on ram and no spcl % added. No memory tweeks.)

At 2.9Ghz booted but failed to run SuperP.(this was only setting not useing 1:1 ratio)

At 2.8 hung up durring 3DMark06.

At 2.7 started to get error in memery test useing sp2004.

Have had it running 5 hrs of sp2004 blended test no errors @ 2.5Ghz. Room is 21 C and CPU is 33C under load.

Note: the crossflow fan drops the PWMIC and the Chipset temps alot and the NF4 fan only gets up to 2200 rpm with x-flow on.

Useing a budget 7900GT with CPU @ 2.5Ghz I scored 5337 in 3DMark06.
I was useing a 7 yr old monitor and had to run the test @ 1224x768 and think this gfx card does better at higher res.
April 28, 2006 8:03:40 PM

I dont think 1C = 18F :o 

Anyways, got my 7900GTX's and my system is being a complete b!tch, i mean hardcore b!tch. It locked up when I got to windows trying to keep my CPU OC, which is fine, I was expecting that. So I declocked it closer and closer to stock and I got nothing. It kept wigging out when I booted up Lineage II. Then out of nowhere the next time I booted I got this LOUD hissing sound for 3 seconds or so from my speakers. I can't figure out wtf is goin on. I think maybe my NB is overheating because the 7800GTX cooler blocks 65% of the NB fan. I have it set to full power all the time but that didn't help. So I positioned a 80MM fan between the GTX rear and the rotated HDD cage in an effort to try and determine if its a NB problem.

At this point I am open to any suggestions. What I do know for certain is it is not a CPU overheating problem bc its now at about 32C underload. GFX cards aren't overheating, they hit 50C underload. all power plugs are properly attached including the floppy type connector over the primary PCI-e slot. the X-FI is in the bottom most PCI slot and has the power connector attached.

The water cooling did drop for a day or two, but it was full of nonconductive liquid so that shouldn't be the problem. Hmmm this sh!t better not be broken. Right now I am in windows at stock speeds all around. I wanted to type this b4 I tried to boot up L2 again.

Suggestions?

Edit: Well i think my Mobo and/or CPU got fried :( 
May 1, 2006 2:21:13 PM

You would be very very lucky to get a machine to run 2.9 with only 1.4v...VERY lucky. My 3800+ X2 is solid up to 2.55 1:1 and 2.7 on a divider at 1.5v. My 3000+ Winnie, can run 2.2ghz @ 1.55v 1:1, and i've run it up to 2.4 on a divider at the same voltage. I'm trying to work with that 3500+ now on my dfi board...I'll let you guys know how that went at some point...Right now i'm having serious issues pushing 2.5 on the default multi (11)...=(. I could very easily just have another memory timing off though...

edit: yep it was a memory timing...heh...sitting at 2.8 1:1 255fsb...
!