Review of KB891711.EXE issue

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
review other posts to this NG for background.

1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?

2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
Registers, please.

3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)

4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
anywhere, yet.

5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
each juncture.

If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
*asterisk, but I'm not certain.)

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
64 answers Last reply
More about review kb891711 issue
  1. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Gary S. Terhune wrote:
    > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report
    the
    > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect
    data
    > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying
    to
    > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain
    from
    > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep
    it
    > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more
    specific
    > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > review other posts to this NG for background.
    >
    > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    >
    > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact,
    verbatim
    > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > Registers, please.
    >
    > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    >
    > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the
    Startup
    > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most
    especially
    > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > anywhere, yet.
    >
    > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to
    the
    > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want
    to
    > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually
    make
    > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for
    invasion.
    > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled.
    Then
    > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    > each juncture.
    >
    > If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with
    KB891711.EXE
    > and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    > related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    > *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)
    >
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
  2. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    It appears that my first reply did not come through, so I'll summarize
    my experience. I use cable. After I downloaded KB 891711 and 888113,
    when I rebooted as soon as the quick start menu loaded, I got the blue
    screen and an error message. Unfortunately, I did not write the error
    message down, altho (as will be noted) I got it several times, but I
    think it was 0X8007003. Each time I rebooted, I got the same result.
    So, I went into Safe Mode and used System Restore to go back before the
    download, and everything was OK; however, my download history noted
    that the two updates were successfully downloaded. The next day I got
    the Update alert and, foolishly, updated them again, with the same
    result, and the same remedy. This time my update history noted two
    successful downloads.

    I checked MSCONFIG for starting programs and neither KB was listed.
    I'm confused here. The updates were noted to be successful, but each
    time I went back before the updates. Does that mean the downloads were
    successful, but they haven't been installed? They are not in my start
    menu and a search for them revealed nothing.

    I'm not going to do the rest as my puter is working now and I intend to
    keep it that way.
  3. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > results according to the schema below....
    >
    > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?

    Dial-up.

    > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > Registers, please.

    Laptop running Windows 98SE. Went to Windows Update and installed the two
    latest updates (Q?250 and Q891711), one at a time and in that order.
    Everything seemed fine, then my dialup connection terminated during an AVG
    virus-definition download. Attempting to reconnect resulted in "no dial tone
    detected" errors in DUN, even though the phone line was connected and OK. My
    Active Desktop (a local HTML file) then turned into the WSOD; clicking on
    "Restore Active Desktop" caused my system to stop responding to the mouse
    and keyboard. Ctrl-Alt-Del having no effect, I had to turn the PC off and
    back on.

    On reboot, everything seemed fine after the obligatory Scandisk until after
    the login prompt, when the WSOD desktop appeared and my computer locked up
    after some but not all of my background programs had started up. Repeated
    the hard reset a couple of times, with the same result.

    Finally booted into Safe Mode (F5 is our friend) and removed 891711 from my
    system via Add/Remove Programs. Restarted the PC, and everything was fine.
    Ran my anti-virus and anti-spyware programs, nothing found.

    > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    >
    > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > anywhere, yet.
    >
    > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    > each juncture.
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    >
  4. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Gary,

    You said that KB891711 was an "obvious problem" and it sounds like it is for
    many users. However, for my computer -- other than the odd fact that it
    loads at startup and shows in MSCONFIG -- I have seen no effect of any
    kind. I'm a Win98SE user, cable hookup, Firefox browser. Hope my good
    fortune holds up!

    =====================================================================
    "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > review other posts to this NG for background.
    >
    > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    >
    > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > Registers, please.
    >
    > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    >
    > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > anywhere, yet.
    >
    > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    > each juncture.
    >
    > If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
    > and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    > related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    > *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)
    >
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    >
  5. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    > ...The next day I got the Update alert

    Are you running Win98? Do you have Windows Critical Update Notification
    Utility (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/224420) installed?
    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-Windows (Shell, IE/OE) & Security

    In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx


    irvingr5 wrote:
    > It appears that my first reply did not come through, so I'll summarize
    > my experience. I use cable. After I downloaded KB 891711 and 888113,
    > when I rebooted as soon as the quick start menu loaded, I got the blue
    > screen and an error message. Unfortunately, I did not write the error
    > message down, altho (as will be noted) I got it several times, but I
    > think it was 0X8007003. Each time I rebooted, I got the same result.
    > So, I went into Safe Mode and used System Restore to go back before the
    > download, and everything was OK; however, my download history noted
    > that the two updates were successfully downloaded. The next day I got
    > the Update alert and, foolishly, updated them again, with the same
    > result, and the same remedy. This time my update history noted two
    > successful downloads.
    >
    > I checked MSCONFIG for starting programs and neither KB was listed.
    > I'm confused here. The updates were noted to be successful, but each
    > time I went back before the updates. Does that mean the downloads were
    > successful, but they haven't been installed? They are not in my start
    > menu and a search for them revealed nothing.
    >
    > I'm not going to do the rest as my puter is working now and I intend to
    > keep it that way.
  6. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Hello, Gary, et. al.,

    RE: WinME machines
    The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under WinME is
    the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
    launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore. Unchecking
    *statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.

    There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem, particularly in
    ....windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the important
    contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early AMD
    cpu's of <700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
    Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen in an
    earlier Win Update problem.
    Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video adapter/driver.

    We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.

    HTH,
    --
    Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    ------
    "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > review other posts to this NG for background.
    >
    > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    >
    > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > Registers, please.
    >
    > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    >
    > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > anywhere, yet.
    >
    > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    > each juncture.
    >
    > If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
    > and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    > related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    > *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)
    >
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    >
  7. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Thanks for the report, Jack! Sounds like you guys have it about as well
    nailed down as anyone else, <g>.

    Reason I cautioned against disabling *statemgr is that disabling SFP and
    SR also deletes the "restore points" (right?)

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

    "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    news:%236G$VUNKFHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > Hello, Gary, et. al.,
    >
    > RE: WinME machines
    > The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under
    WinME is
    > the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
    > launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore.
    Unchecking
    > *statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.
    >
    > There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem,
    particularly in
    > ...windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the
    important
    > contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early
    AMD
    > cpu's of <700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
    > Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen
    in an
    > earlier Win Update problem.
    > Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video
    adapter/driver.
    >
    > We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.
    >
  8. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    Normally DSL, sometimes cable, sometimes dial-up via dial-up networking (NOT an installed bloatware application). DUN still functions normally.

    2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    Registers, please.
    BSOD only when using a small, common Win98 application kown as "Enditall". (I've used this same application for many years and have not had any BSODs with it until the last two critical updates were installed. I decided to test it after I noticed the running process "kb 891711" which led me to Google it and discover a newsgroup post suggesting that this process interfears with programs like Enditall that access Windows Explorer.)

    3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    No errors. No tricks. Serious problem: BSOD with Enditall.

    4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    anywhere, yet.
    Problem not browser (IE6) related. No AV used or needed. Have external firewall, plus good ISPs (Covad or MSN for msn.com email) blocking most SPAM and viral attachments, and an understanding of file extensions and potential dangers.

    5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    each juncture.
    No AV; firewall is external. Since my computer is old and slow (133MHz) I keep my msconfig down to about 15 processes most of which are for small useful utilites. Since Enditall is not a background process, none of the items in the msconfig list contribute to the BSOD.

    If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
    and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
  9. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

    X-Post to WinME General.

    Jack, would you and the others please consider pinging your Lead(s) about
    this problem? Several of us are trying to 'kick it up a notch' by doing so.
    Thanks.
    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-Windows (Shell, IE/OE) & Security

    In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx

    Jack E Martinelli wrote:
    > Hello, Gary, et. al.,
    >
    > RE: WinME machines
    > The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under WinME is
    > the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
    > launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore.
    > Unchecking *statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.
    >
    > There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem, particularly in
    > ...windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the important
    > contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early AMD
    > cpu's of <700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
    > Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen in
    > an earlier Win Update problem.
    > Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video
    > adapter/driver.
    >
    > We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.
  10. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

    Ten four, Big Guy.
    I suspect MS has heard plenty already.
    --
    Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    ------
    "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:%23sbylYNKFHA.3420@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > X-Post to WinME General.
    >
    > Jack, would you and the others please consider pinging your Lead(s) about
    > this problem? Several of us are trying to 'kick it up a notch' by doing
    so.
    > Thanks.
    > --
    > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    > MS MVP-Windows (Shell, IE/OE) & Security
    >
    > In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    >
    > Jack E Martinelli wrote:
    > > Hello, Gary, et. al.,
    > >
    > > RE: WinME machines
    > > The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under WinME
    is
    > > the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
    > > launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore.
    > > Unchecking *statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.
    > >
    > > There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem, particularly
    in
    > > ...windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the important
    > > contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early AMD
    > > cpu's of <700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
    > > Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen in
    > > an earlier Win Update problem.
    > > Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video
    > > adapter/driver.
    > >
    > > We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.
    >
  11. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:27:25 -0800, "Gary S. Terhune"
    <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote:


    >1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    Dialup
    >2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    >enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    >details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    >Registers, please.
    no errors because I unchecked KB891711, and I'm afraid to recheck it
    >3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered
    no tricks
    >4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    >functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    >tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    >internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    >IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    >anywhere, yet.
    I'm not daring enough to do that
    >5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    >internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    >restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    >it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    >Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    >connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    >reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    >progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    >each juncture.
    not doing that either because, when IE crashes, I don't just go to the
    blue screen. Instead, my whole system freezes and won't do one darned
    thing until I flip the switch on the computer, then turn it back on.
    I'm not going to continue flipping the switch and make a bad thing
    worse.

    While many of you find computer problems like this to be intriguing, I
    find them frightening.

    Beth
  12. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Only KB891711 would show up at MSConfig, but both would show at "Control
    Panel, Add/Remove Programs, Install/Uninstall tab"...

    (a) Windows 98 KB891711 Update
    (b) Windows 98 Q823559 Update
    (c) Windows 98 Q840315 Update
    (d) Windows 98 Q888113 Update
    (e) Windows 98 Q890175 Update

    ...., somewhere in that bunch. BUT, I am Win98SE. You may be WinME, if
    you have GoBack, per Terhune.

    I believe you will not find them there. You have uninstalled them, I
    think, & Windows Update knows it, because it offers them again. (Man,
    they should have pulled it by now, though!)

    YET, it's History button is confused. Perhaps GoBack did not recover the
    file that is your History, which I THINK is...

    "C:\Program Files\WindowsUpdate\V4\iuhist.xml"

    Was GoBack supposed to get that one? What is the date on yours? Mine is
    3/10/05, the date I took those last two, acc. to...

    "C:\WINDOWSWindows Update.log"...
    ........Quote..............
    2005-03-10 00:23:08 05:23:08 Success IUENGINE Downloaded file
    http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/Windows98-KB891711-ENU_0a0d02ffb04ee461ae6c98672057046.EXE
    2005-03-10 00:23:08 05:23:08 Success IUENGINE Local path
    h:\WUTemp\com_microsoft.891711_98_SP1_WinSE_295\Windows98-KB891711-ENU.E
    XE
    2005-03-10 00:23:10 05:23:10 Success IUENGINE See iuhist.xml
    for details: Download finished
    ........EOQ.................


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "irvingr5" <irvingr5@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:1110823068.105358.238070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
    | It appears that my first reply did not come through, so I'll summarize
    | my experience. I use cable. After I downloaded KB 891711 and 888113,
    | when I rebooted as soon as the quick start menu loaded, I got the blue
    | screen and an error message. Unfortunately, I did not write the error
    | message down, altho (as will be noted) I got it several times, but I
    | think it was 0X8007003. Each time I rebooted, I got the same result.
    | So, I went into Safe Mode and used System Restore to go back before
    the
    | download, and everything was OK; however, my download history noted
    | that the two updates were successfully downloaded. The next day I got
    | the Update alert and, foolishly, updated them again, with the same
    | result, and the same remedy. This time my update history noted two
    | successful downloads.
    |
    | I checked MSCONFIG for starting programs and neither KB was listed.
    | I'm confused here. The updates were noted to be successful, but each
    | time I went back before the updates. Does that mean the downloads
    were
    | successful, but they haven't been installed? They are not in my start
    | menu and a search for them revealed nothing.
    |
    | I'm not going to do the rest as my puter is working now and I intend
    to
    | keep it that way.
    |
  13. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    The machines I see the problems on at work are Win98SE, Dell computers with Intel
    processors of 1GHz or more, integrated Intel video adapter/driver. I will check the
    exact info and the BIOS versions this week if I can get to them. Note that there
    are three identical Dell computers there, and only two of them exhibited the blue
    screens. NAV and LU are not on any of the machines. No third-party
    firewall....they are on a network using a Netgear router with a built-in firewall,
    broadband connection (RoadRunner).
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


    "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    news:%236G$VUNKFHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > Hello, Gary, et. al.,
    >
    > RE: WinME machines
    > The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under WinME is
    > the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
    > launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore. Unchecking
    > *statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.
    >
    > There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem, particularly in
    > ...windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the important
    > contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early AMD
    > cpu's of <700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
    > Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen in an
    > earlier Win Update problem.
    > Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video adapter/driver.
    >
    > We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.
    >
    > HTH,
    > --
    > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > ------
    > "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    > > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    > > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > > review other posts to this NG for background.
    > >
    > > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    > >
    > > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    > > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > > Registers, please.
    > >
    > > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    > >
    > > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    > > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    > > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    > > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > > anywhere, yet.
    > >
    > > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    > > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    > > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    > > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    > > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    > > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    > > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    > > each juncture.
    > >
    > > If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
    > > and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    > > related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    > > *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)
    > >
    > > --
    > > Gary S. Terhune
    > > MS MVP Shell/User
    > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
  14. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Gary wrote:
    > Reason I cautioned against disabling *statemgr is that disabling SFP and
    > SR also deletes the "restore points" (right?)

    Correct!

    "To reset System Restore:
    System | Performance | File System | Troubleshooting and check "Disable
    System Restore", Apply and IMMEDIATELY reboot. This will flush your restore
    folder and erase all checkpoints, then,
    System | Performance | File System | Troubleshooting and uncheck "Disable
    System Restore", Apply and again IMMEDIATELY reboot. This should now
    automatically create a new checkpoint immediately following the restart.
    Finally adjust the space allocated to the restore folder,
    System | Performance | File System | Hard Disk and adjust the restore slider
    to your preferred setting.
    --
    Mike Maltby MS MVP "
    --

    Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    ------
    "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:%23oahXZNKFHA.3832@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > Thanks for the report, Jack! Sounds like you guys have it about as well
    > nailed down as anyone else, <g>.
    >
    > Reason I cautioned against disabling *statemgr is that disabling SFP and
    > SR also deletes the "restore points" (right?)
    >
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > news:%236G$VUNKFHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > Hello, Gary, et. al.,
    > >
    > > RE: WinME machines
    > > The only item in msconfig/Startup related to System Restore under
    > WinME is
    > > the *statemgr, the State Manager responsible for supervising the
    > > launch/execution of both System File Protect and System Restore.
    > Unchecking
    > > *statemgr in msconfig will disable both functions.
    > >
    > > There is an extensive discussion of the KB 891711 problem,
    > particularly in
    > > ...windowsme.general, where it is yet quite uncertain what the
    > important
    > > contributing cause/s is/are. An earlier suggestion that only early
    > AMD
    > > cpu's of <700 MHz are responsible appears not to be true.
    > > Another suggestion is tentatively implicating certain BIOS's, as seen
    > in an
    > > earlier Win Update problem.
    > > Other less probable causes include the chipset and the video
    > adapter/driver.
    > >
    > > We believe we have ruled out NAV and Live Update as the culprit.
    > >
    >
  15. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same BIOS's and
    only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules out
    (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS timing
    problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new Celeron
    cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed identical,
    i.e., no flashed items.

    Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.

    Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest reports for
    the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    --
    Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    ------
    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > The machines I see the problems on at work are Win98SE, Dell computers
    with Intel
    > processors of 1GHz or more, integrated Intel video adapter/driver. I will
    check the
    > exact info and the BIOS versions this week if I can get to them. Note
    that there
    > are three identical Dell computers there, and only two of them exhibited
    the blue
    > screens. NAV and LU are not on any of the machines. No third-party
    > firewall....they are on a network using a Netgear router with a built-in
    firewall,
    > broadband connection (RoadRunner).
    > --
    > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    >
    > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > news:%236G$VUNKFHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > Hello, Gary, et. al.,
    > >

    <SNIP>
  16. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl

    > The machines I see the problems on at work are Win98SE, Dell computers

    [...]

    > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

    Glen I wanted to ask you this before, and don't want to sidetrack this thread
    much, but it's delightfully interesting that a company still uses 98SE and my
    wondering is not a trick question but would sincerely like to know the
    reasons surrounding it. ..perhaps it's just a small company and what works
    well and is very stable and the employees are used to it so then why
    change it creating the common 'change confusion' ? ..or is there more?

    Thanks much,
    Rick
  17. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I have ME and GoBack would not give me any prior date, so I used System
    Restore. I don't know why GoBack could not, and it could not twice,
    unless it's because System Restore is active. You're right, since I
    went back before the installations both times, neither of those patches
    were installed, although my History shows that they were both
    successfully installed. Well, they were, but by System Restore, I
    uninstalled them.

    I got the reminder again today, and did install KB888113, but not
    KB891711, with no problems. Am I safe with just this one?
  18. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Glee, I have ME, Dell, Pentium III with speed of 800 mghz, and I
    have this problem.
  19. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I connect using DSL and don't seem to have any problems,But my P.C. take
    double the usual time to boot-up and it seems to take a long time for all the
    icons to appear on the desktop. On other web sites I looked into it seems
    that uninstalling the update doesn't help, since the problems caused by it
    persist, In my case I took it out of the start-up menu with msconfig but upon
    rebooting, when I pressed control-alt-delete on the empty screen, it still
    shows up as a running process, and it is still slow in booting up. I hope
    Microsoft comes up with a fix soon ....because they are making a good case
    for me to buy a Mac......if they weren't so dammed expensive.......I guess
    you get what you pay for.......................

    "Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

    > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > review other posts to this NG for background.
    >
    > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    >
    > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > Registers, please.
    >
    > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    >
    > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > anywhere, yet.
    >
    > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    > each juncture.
    >
    > If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
    > and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    > related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    > *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)
    >
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    >
    >
  20. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    While this issue is happening in Win98 and WinME (with Win2K indicated
    elsewhere), might I suggest that a WinME-specific newsgroup would be a more
    logical place for you?

    news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windowsme.general
    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-Windows (Shell, IE/OE) & Security

    In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx


    irvingr5 wrote:
    > Glee, I have ME, Dell, Pentium III with speed of 800 mghz, and I
    > have this problem.
  21. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    You have no choice but to be safe with just one, until MS fixes the
    other. BUT, the write-up on the KB891711 vulnerability is horrific. So,
    watch what you click for a while, & keep your virus scanner up-to-date.

    Well, it looks like you've uninstalled KB891711, if the site continues
    to offer it to you. But, I wonder, how do you compare against what
    Chauvin has said are the Registry entries & files of the thing. Of
    course, this is for Win98SE & may naturally be different for you. Maybe,
    just do a search for the files he mentions...

    news:eaKRLVwJFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl
    .........Quote...............
    The install is really really a simple one though, and just for notation
    here
    is exactly what the simple install does, and from this it's easy to make
    sure the uninstall is complete if ever need be:

    (for files - only 3 were added and no other file changes were made)

    C:\WINDOWS\INF\QFE\W98\
    891711UN.INF

    C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711\
    KB891711exe
    Q891711.dll

    (and for the registry the install only Added a few entires - it made no
    other changes)

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed
    Components\{2cd1b477-8d46-4b86-b7dc-13fb65fb5914}]
    @="Windows 98 KB891711 Update"
    "IsInstalled"=dword:00000001
    "Locale"="EN"
    "Version"="4.10.0.2222"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunService
    s]
    "KB891711"="C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\KB891711\\KB891711.EXE"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\Upda
    tes\W98\UPD891711]
    @="Windows 98 KB891711 Update"
    "C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\KB891711\\KB891711.EXE"=""
    "C:\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM\\KB891711\\Q891711.DLL"=""

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\
    891711]
    @=""
    "DisplayName"="Windows 98 KB891711 Update"
    "UninstallString"="RunDll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection
    C:\\WINDOWS\\INF\\QFE\\W98\\891711UN.INF"
    .........EOQ.................


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "irvingr5" <irvingr5@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:1110912560.730863.168630@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    | I have ME and GoBack would not give me any prior date, so I used
    System
    | Restore. I don't know why GoBack could not, and it could not twice,
    | unless it's because System Restore is active. You're right, since I
    | went back before the installations both times, neither of those
    patches
    | were installed, although my History shows that they were both
    | successfully installed. Well, they were, but by System Restore, I
    | uninstalled them.
    |
    | I got the reminder again today, and did install KB888113, but not
    | KB891711, with no problems. Am I safe with just this one?
    |
  22. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    PA, do you know what happens if one were to delete "C:\Program
    Files\WindowsUpdate\V4\iuhist.xml". Would the site generate a new one or
    blow up?


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:%239s23INKFHA.1392@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    | > ...The next day I got the Update alert
    |
    | Are you running Win98? Do you have Windows Critical Update
    Notification
    | Utility (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/224420) installed?
    | --
    | ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    | MS MVP-Windows (Shell, IE/OE) & Security
    |
    | In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    |
    |
    | irvingr5 wrote:
    | > It appears that my first reply did not come through, so I'll
    summarize
    | > my experience. I use cable. After I downloaded KB 891711 and
    888113,
    | > when I rebooted as soon as the quick start menu loaded, I got the
    blue
    | > screen and an error message. Unfortunately, I did not write the
    error
    | > message down, altho (as will be noted) I got it several times, but I
    | > think it was 0X8007003. Each time I rebooted, I got the same
    result.
    | > So, I went into Safe Mode and used System Restore to go back before
    the
    | > download, and everything was OK; however, my download history noted
    | > that the two updates were successfully downloaded. The next day I
    got
    | > the Update alert and, foolishly, updated them again, with the same
    | > result, and the same remedy. This time my update history noted two
    | > successful downloads.
    | >
    | > I checked MSCONFIG for starting programs and neither KB was listed.
    | > I'm confused here. The updates were noted to be successful, but
    each
    | > time I went back before the updates. Does that mean the downloads
    were
    | > successful, but they haven't been installed? They are not in my
    start
    | > menu and a search for them revealed nothing.
    | >
    | > I'm not going to do the rest as my puter is working now and I intend
    to
    | > keep it that way.
    |
  23. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Door #1, I suspect.
    --
    ~PA Bear

    In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx

    PCR wrote:
    > PA, do you know what happens if one were to delete "C:\Program
    > Files\WindowsUpdate\V4\iuhist.xml". Would the site generate a new one or
    > blow up?
  24. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can get on those machines
    again.
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

    "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same BIOS's and
    > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules out
    > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS timing
    > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new Celeron
    > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed identical,
    > i.e., no flashed items.
    >
    > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    >
    > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest reports for
    > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    > --
    > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > ------
    > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > > The machines I see the problems on at work are Win98SE, Dell computers
    > with Intel
    > > processors of 1GHz or more, integrated Intel video adapter/driver. I will
    > check the
    > > exact info and the BIOS versions this week if I can get to them. Note
    > that there
    > > are three identical Dell computers there, and only two of them exhibited
    > the blue
    > > screens. NAV and LU are not on any of the machines. No third-party
    > > firewall....they are on a network using a Netgear router with a built-in
    > firewall,
    > > broadband connection (RoadRunner).
    > > --
    > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    > >
    > >
    > > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > > news:%236G$VUNKFHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > > Hello, Gary, et. al.,
    > > >
    >
    > <SNIP>
    >
    >
  25. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Small company. They bought an H-P ME computer when ME came out, and were not
    impressed, so on subsequent machines ordered (from Dell), they specified Win98SE.
    They bought a Compaq a year ago with XP SP1, then just a few months ago bought two
    Dells with XP SP2. So we now have Dells with 98SE and with XP SP2, along with the
    H-P ME, and a Compaq XP which has recently been upgraded to SP2.
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

    "Rick Chauvin" <justask@nospamz.com> wrote in message
    news:OqzJjPWKFHA.3184@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl
    >
    > > The machines I see the problems on at work are Win98SE, Dell computers
    >
    > [...]
    >
    > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    > Glen I wanted to ask you this before, and don't want to sidetrack this thread
    > much, but it's delightfully interesting that a company still uses 98SE and my
    > wondering is not a trick question but would sincerely like to know the
    > reasons surrounding it. ..perhaps it's just a small company and what works
    > well and is very stable and the employees are used to it so then why
    > change it creating the common 'change confusion' ? ..or is there more?
    >
    > Thanks much,
    > Rick
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
  26. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > review other posts to this NG for background.
    > <snip>

    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    I know you're asking for responses from those having problems but perhaps
    you might also find it useful to hear from those of us who are not. I have
    all the latest updates and am having no problems. I running:
    Windows 98SE
    HP Pavilion 8380
    400 MHz Pentium II
    224.OMB RAM
    40 GB
  27. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I should try it one day. I wonder whether it would be properly filled in
    or left empty.

    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:u9oBGubKFHA.244@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    | Door #1, I suspect.
    | --
    | ~PA Bear
    |
    | In Memoriam, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    |
    | PCR wrote:
    | > PA, do you know what happens if one were to delete "C:\Program
    | > Files\WindowsUpdate\V4\iuhist.xml". Would the site generate a new
    one or
    | > blow up?
  28. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    ..


    "LAH" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
    news:uQCWIHeKFHA.572@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    > > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    > > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > > review other posts to this NG for background.
    > > <snip>
    >
    > > Gary S. Terhune
    > > MS MVP Shell/User
    > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    > >
    > I know you're asking for responses from those having problems but perhaps
    > you might also find it useful to hear from those of us who are not. I
    have
    > all the latest updates and am having no problems. I running:
    > Windows 98SE
    > HP Pavilion 8380
    > 400 MHz Pentium II
    > 224.OMB RAM
    > 40 GB
    >
    >

    Here's another data point.

    I reported earlier that I had downloaded KB891711 last week and had
    experienced no problems. However, tonight when I attempted my weekly
    scandisk/defrag using GEODisk2, I got a BSOD. After a bit of
    experimentation, I found that if I did a ctrl-alt-del and closed KB891711,
    then invoked GEODisk2, scandisk/defrag would proceed normally. So far
    that's the only anomaly I've encountered.

    Win98SE
    P11, 300MHz
    320 meg RAM
  29. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
    news:OAOr8GgKFHA.244@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > .
    >
    >
    > "LAH" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
    > news:uQCWIHeKFHA.572@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > >
    > > "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > > news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > > > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > > > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > > > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > > > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > > > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > > > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > > > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain
    from
    > > > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > > > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more
    specific
    > > > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > > > review other posts to this NG for background.
    > > > <snip>
    > >
    > > > Gary S. Terhune
    > > > MS MVP Shell/User
    > > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    > > >
    > > I know you're asking for responses from those having problems but
    perhaps
    > > you might also find it useful to hear from those of us who are not. I
    > have
    > > all the latest updates and am having no problems. I running:
    > > Windows 98SE
    > > HP Pavilion 8380
    > > 400 MHz Pentium II
    > > 224.OMB RAM
    > > 40 GB
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Here's another data point.
    >
    > I reported earlier that I had downloaded KB891711 last week and had
    > experienced no problems. However, tonight when I attempted my weekly
    > scandisk/defrag using GEODisk2, I got a BSOD. After a bit of
    > experimentation, I found that if I did a ctrl-alt-del and closed KB891711,
    > then invoked GEODisk2, scandisk/defrag would proceed normally. So far
    > that's the only anomaly I've encountered.
    >
    > Win98SE
    > P11, 300MHz
    > 320 meg RAM

    And BTW, Comcast cable
  30. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Compaq 7470, 533MHz AMD K6-2, Win98SE, IE6 SP1, fully updated.
    Have the problem.

    Can you...?...

    "START, Run, MSInfo32, Software Environment, Running Tasks"
    Post what you see for these...

    Rnaapp.exe 4.10.2222 Microsoft Corporation Dial-Up Networking
    Application C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Rnaapp.exe 4.0 Microsoft(R) Windows(R)
    Operating System

    Tapisrv.exe 4.10.2222 Microsoft Corporation Microsoft® Windows(TM)
    Telephony Server C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Tapisrv.exe 4.0 Microsoft(R)
    Windows(R) Operating System

    What about this one...?...

    Ddhelp.exe 4.09.00.0900 Microsoft Corporation Microsoft DirectX Helper
    C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Ddhelp.exe 4.0 Microsoft® DirectX for Windows®


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "LAH" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
    news:uQCWIHeKFHA.572@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    |
    | "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    | news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    | > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    | > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    | > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report
    the
    | > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect
    data
    | > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying
    to
    | > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    | > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain
    from
    | > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep
    it
    | > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more
    specific
    | > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    | > review other posts to this NG for background.
    | > <snip>
    |
    | > Gary S. Terhune
    | > MS MVP Shell/User
    | > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    | > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    | >
    | I know you're asking for responses from those having problems but
    perhaps
    | you might also find it useful to hear from those of us who are not. I
    have
    | all the latest updates and am having no problems. I running:
    | Windows 98SE
    | HP Pavilion 8380
    | 400 MHz Pentium II
    | 224.OMB RAM
    | 40 GB
    |
    |
  31. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Rnaapp.exe 4.10.2222 Microsoft Corporation Dial-Up Networking Application
    C:\Windows\System\Rnaapp.exe 4.0 Microsoft(R)Windows(R)Oper...

    Tapisrv.exe 4.10.2222 Microsoft Corporation Microsoft Windows(TM)
    Telephony Server C:\Windows\System\Tapisrv.exe 4.0
    Microsoft(R_Windows(R)Oper...

    Ddhelp.exe 4.09.00.09000 Microsoft Corporation Microsoft DirectX Helper
    C:\Windows\System\Ddhelp.exe 4.0 Microsoft DirectX for Windows

    Hope this is the information you requested. It seems identical to what you
    posted.

    Last night my 10 year old son did have some sort of error regarding Rnaapp.
    I don't remember exactly what it was and don't know exactly what he was
    doing when it happened. He was playing some sort of online game but had
    left it for several minutes. I rebooted and all worked well after that. I
    don't think it had anything to do with the problem you're discussing. More
    likely it had something to do with a server timing out, difficulty
    reconnecting to our ISP, or perhaps the temp files needed to be
    emptied.<shrug> There weren't any more problems last night and things
    appear to be OK this morning.

    "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    news:%23vFRameKFHA.2136@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > Compaq 7470, 533MHz AMD K6-2, Win98SE, IE6 SP1, fully updated.
    > Have the problem.
    >
    > Can you...?...
    >
    > "START, Run, MSInfo32, Software Environment, Running Tasks"
    > Post what you see for these...
    >
    > Rnaapp.exe 4.10.2222 Microsoft Corporation Dial-Up Networking
    > Application C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Rnaapp.exe 4.0 Microsoft(R) Windows(R)
    > Operating System
    >
    > Tapisrv.exe 4.10.2222 Microsoft Corporation Microsoft® Windows(TM)
    > Telephony Server C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Tapisrv.exe 4.0 Microsoft(R)
    > Windows(R) Operating System
    >
    > What about this one...?...
    >
    > Ddhelp.exe 4.09.00.0900 Microsoft Corporation Microsoft DirectX Helper
    > C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\Ddhelp.exe 4.0 Microsoft® DirectX for Windows®
    >
    >
    > --
    > Thanks or Good Luck,
    > There may be humor in this post, and,
    > Naturally, you will not sue,
    > should things get worse after this,
    > PCR
    > pcrrcp@netzero.net
    > "LAH" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
    > news:uQCWIHeKFHA.572@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > |
    > | "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > | news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > | > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > | > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > | > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report
    > the
    > | > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect
    > data
    > | > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying
    > to
    > | > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > | > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain
    > from
    > | > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep
    > it
    > | > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more
    > specific
    > | > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > | > review other posts to this NG for background.
    > | > <snip>
    > |
    > | > Gary S. Terhune
    > | > MS MVP Shell/User
    > | > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > | > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    > | >
    > | I know you're asking for responses from those having problems but
    > perhaps
    > | you might also find it useful to hear from those of us who are not. I
    > have
    > | all the latest updates and am having no problems. I running:
    > | Windows 98SE
    > | HP Pavilion 8380
    > | 400 MHz Pentium II
    > | 224.OMB RAM
    > | 40 GB
  32. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    ...okay thanks Glen,

    Rick
  33. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    The latest suspicion implicates the video adapter / driver.
    See other thread in this ng for details.
    --
    Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    ------
    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:%23uMY9qcKFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can get on those
    machines
    > again.
    > --
    > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same BIOS's
    and
    > > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules out
    > > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS timing
    > > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new
    Celeron
    > > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    > > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed identical,
    > > i.e., no flashed items.
    > >
    > > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    > >
    > > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest reports
    for
    > > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    > > --
    > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    > >
    > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > > ------
    > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...

    <SNIP>
  34. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
    news:utwAsJgKFHA.1308@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
    > news:OAOr8GgKFHA.244@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > .
    > >
    > >
    > > "LAH" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
    > > news:uQCWIHeKFHA.572@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > > >
    > > > "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > > > news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > > > > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > > > > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > > > > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report
    the
    > > > > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect
    data
    > > > > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying
    to
    > > > > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > > > > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain
    > from
    > > > > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep
    it
    > > > > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more
    > specific
    > > > > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > > > > review other posts to this NG for background.
    > > > > <snip>
    > > >
    > > > > Gary S. Terhune
    > > > > MS MVP Shell/User
    > > > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > > > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    > > > >
    > > > I know you're asking for responses from those having problems but
    > perhaps
    > > > you might also find it useful to hear from those of us who are not. I
    > > have
    > > > all the latest updates and am having no problems. I running:
    > > > Windows 98SE
    > > > HP Pavilion 8380
    > > > 400 MHz Pentium II
    > > > 224.OMB RAM
    > > > 40 GB
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > Here's another data point.
    > >
    > > I reported earlier that I had downloaded KB891711 last week and had
    > > experienced no problems. However, tonight when I attempted my weekly
    > > scandisk/defrag using GEODisk2, I got a BSOD. After a bit of
    > > experimentation, I found that if I did a ctrl-alt-del and closed
    KB891711,
    > > then invoked GEODisk2, scandisk/defrag would proceed normally. So far
    > > that's the only anomaly I've encountered.
    > >
    > > Win98SE
    > > P11, 300MHz
    > > 320 meg RAM
    >
    > And BTW, Comcast cable
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Another data point. At one time during my experimentation with the KB891711
    problem, I uninstalled it using add/remove programs. This successfully
    removed it from the start menu and MSCONFIG. When I later tried to
    reinstall it from Windows Update I got the "no new critical updates
    available" message. Since KB891711 apppeared to have little negative
    effect, I had wanted to reinstall it to get the alleged protection it
    provided. I did a "find files or folders" search and discovered that there
    were two KB891711 folders remaining after the uninstall. Apparently Windows
    Update erroneously saw these as evidence that KB891711 was resident on my
    computer. I deleted them, went back to Windows Update and was able to
    download KB891711 with no trouble. So far, the only problem I have seen
    with KB891711 installed is the previously noted inability to scandisk/defrag
    with GEODisk2.
  35. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I may contribute as follows:

    "Gary S. Terhune" wrote:

    > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > review other posts to this NG for background.
    >
    > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?

    DSL, but the problem which I'll describe seems independent from the Internet
    conection.


    >
    > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > Registers, please.


    A few hours (?) after installing KB891711, the computer (Win98 - Toshiba
    portege 3110 CT) would show a black screen after logging in and a the moment
    programs that shoud load at startup would try to do so. If I did not logged
    in (leaving the login screen idle, i.e. not entering anything and NOT
    clicking on "cancel"), I could ping the computer and acces shared directories
    frm another computer (through LAN). However, if I logged in, the computer
    became inacessible at the moment its screen got black.

    Starting the computer in safe mode, I systematically uncheked all programs
    that I could see in the START tab using msconfig. I found that its was a
    programme called CVPND. EXE (part of a CISCO VPN client version 4 that run as
    a resident programme, waiting for the launch of the VPN client it-self ) that
    caused the freezing of machine (unchecking this entry allowed me to log in
    and have the machine to work normally) . However, I could no longer then use
    my CISCO client ! Starting CVPND.EXE manually after completing a normal
    booting, and then trying to run the CISCO client caused the screen to freeze
    and to be splitted in 4 small miniature displays. All I could do at this
    stage was to make a reset !

    Unchecking KB891711 allowed me to re-enable CVPND.EXE and to run the CISCO
    client and other programmes without problem.

    >
    > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)

    I tried several tricks (like not logging in but simply clicking "cancel",
    logging as another user than the usual one, etc...) but to no avail (the way
    the screen froze differed [black screen, splitted screen, normal but frozen
    screen, ... ], but the machine aventually always got stucked, unresponsive,
    and inacessible from te network). The only way I could strat the computer
    (and using msconfig) was in safe mode where averything seemed normal.

    >
    > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > anywhere, yet.

    Unchecking Zone Alarm, Norton and CVPND entries allowed the machine to
    start without problems with KB891711 running. All other programmes worked
    fine.

    >
    > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    > each juncture.

    I did not test this but may do it if you consider it essential.

    >
    > If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
    > and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    > related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    > *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)


    With an ME machine, I got a blue screen when trying to re-install Netscape
    7.2 (which had been uninstalled because it had problems). The machine could
    then be started in safe mode ONLY until KB891711 was unchecked with msconfig.

    Now, my questions to you:

    - at this point, what is best: leave KN891771 unchecked or unsinstall it ?
    - when will Microsoft (a) remove this KB891771 from what can be donwloaded
    and installed from Windows Update (b) have a corrected patch ready ?
    - how safe is it to remain without KB891711 (but with a updated Zone Alarm
    and Norton AV)

    Paul.


    >
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    >
    >
  36. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "Paul (Bornival)" <PaulBornival@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
    message news:771206F9-3F01-4F9E-805B-D400582178C1@microsoft.com...
    > > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    >
    > DSL, but the problem which I'll describe seems independent from the
    Internet
    > conection.

    > >
    > > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact,
    verbatim
    > > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > > Registers, please.
    >
    >
    > A few hours (?) after installing KB891711, the computer (Win98 -
    Toshiba
    > portege 3110 CT) would show a black screen after logging in and a the
    moment
    > programs that shoud load at startup would try to do so. If I did not
    logged
    > in (leaving the login screen idle, i.e. not entering anything and NOT
    > clicking on "cancel"), I could ping the computer and acces shared
    directories
    > frm another computer (through LAN). However, if I logged in, the
    computer
    > became inacessible at the moment its screen got black.
    >
    > Starting the computer in safe mode, I systematically uncheked all
    programs
    > that I could see in the START tab using msconfig. I found that its
    was a
    > programme called CVPND. EXE (part of a CISCO VPN client version 4 that
    run as
    > a resident programme, waiting for the launch of the VPN client
    it-self ) that
    > caused the freezing of machine (unchecking this entry allowed me to
    log in
    > and have the machine to work normally) . However, I could no longer
    then use
    > my CISCO client ! Starting CVPND.EXE manually after completing a
    normal
    > booting, and then trying to run the CISCO client caused the screen to
    freeze
    > and to be splitted in 4 small miniature displays. All I could do at
    this
    > stage was to make a reset !
    >
    > Unchecking KB891711 allowed me to re-enable CVPND.EXE and to run the
    CISCO
    > client and other programmes without problem.
    >
    > >
    > > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    >
    > I tried several tricks (like not logging in but simply clicking
    "cancel",
    > logging as another user than the usual one, etc...) but to no avail
    (the way
    > the screen froze differed [black screen, splitted screen, normal but
    frozen
    > screen, ... ], but the machine aventually always got stucked,
    unresponsive,
    > and inacessible from te network). The only way I could strat the
    computer
    > (and using msconfig) was in safe mode where averything seemed normal.
    >
    > >
    > > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the
    Startup
    > > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from
    any
    > > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most
    especially
    > > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > > anywhere, yet.
    >
    > Unchecking Zone Alarm, Norton and CVPND entries allowed the machine
    to
    > start without problems with KB891711 running. All other programmes
    worked
    > fine.
    >
    > >
    > > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to
    the
    > > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want
    to
    > > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually
    make
    > > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for
    invasion.
    > > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart
    and
    > > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled.
    Then
    > > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing
    at
    > > each juncture.
    >
    > I did not test this but may do it if you consider it essential.
    >
    > >
    > > If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with
    KB891711.EXE
    > > and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    > > related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    > > *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)
    >
    >
    > With an ME machine, I got a blue screen when trying to re-install
    Netscape
    > 7.2 (which had been uninstalled because it had problems). The machine
    could
    > then be started in safe mode ONLY until KB891711 was unchecked with
    msconfig.

    Thank you very much for these details. With any luck, a commonality will
    be discovered sooner than later. No, I don't think you need to perform
    any additional tests. My only intent is that we track down which
    programs and procedures are affected. You seem to have detailed that
    just fine.

    > Now, my questions to you:
    >
    > - at this point, what is best: leave KN891771 unchecked or unsinstall
    it ?

    If simply unchecking it in MSCONFIG solves the problem, then fine. If it
    manages to reinstate itself, then you have no choice but to Uninstall
    it. One thing you might try (not sure if you already have). Try
    uninstalling it, then using Clean Boot procedures before reinstalling it
    (see my sig for link to Clean Boot article.) Please, if you find any
    change in behavior after reinstlaling in this manner, let us know, OK?

    > - when will Microsoft (a) remove this KB891771 from what can be
    donwloaded
    > and installed from Windows Update (b) have a corrected patch ready ?

    No word on either count. As silent as MS is being, I can only assume
    they're working frantically to determine what's what.

    > - how safe is it to remain without KB891711 (but with a updated Zone
    Alarm
    > and Norton AV)

    Safe enough, *if* you exercise caution on the web, avoiding unknown
    and/or risky sites. Also, if running Outlook Express 6, in Options, on
    the Read tab, enable "Read in Plain Text Only". If not using a mail/news
    client that can be set to "Plain Text Only", consider switching
    mail/news clients. Also recommend SpywareBlaster and the MVPS HOSTS file
    to prevent known malicious sites from resolving. See the second link in
    my sig for further info.

    The vulnerability is a real one, but it does require that you permit a
    maliciously encoded HTML file to be rendered on your system.

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
  37. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Jack,
    My machine is 2 GHz, Celeron w/Asus P4SGX-MX MB w/SIS 650GX video chipset
    currently in use.

    The update patch caused IE to crash to BSOD, exactly like PCR's description.
    Offline, IE worked great, loaded many .html's into it from off my local hd.

    I'm on dial-up, simple DUN connection, no ISP s/w involved and do not use
    ICW. Pc-cillin is my a/v s/w and my only firewall is via Pc-cillin, however
    the puter is stealth per Gibson's site and my configuration of my firewall.

    I have removed the patch KB891711. I have had no more problems, in fact, I
    had no problems after I disabled it in msconfig, but I wouldn't expect to,
    and I still have patch KB888113 which I took at the same time.

    Personally, I won't use this update as it is configured to startup and run
    w/Windows. I start any services I want to use after I connect to the
    Internet... ONLY Pc-cillin starts up and runs w/Windows and I maintain a
    normal startup.

    What is Microsoft thinking... this patch is downright **Goofy** (my mild
    opinion)!!

    Star


    "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    news:eZdd3YjKFHA.3356@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > The latest suspicion implicates the video adapter / driver.
    > See other thread in this ng for details.
    > --
    > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > ------
    > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > news:%23uMY9qcKFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > > I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can get on those
    > machines
    > > again.
    > > --
    > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    > >
    > > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > > news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > > > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same BIOS's
    > and
    > > > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules out
    > > > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS
    timing
    > > > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new
    > Celeron
    > > > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    > > > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed
    identical,
    > > > i.e., no flashed items.
    > > >
    > > > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    > > >
    > > > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest reports
    > for
    > > > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    > > > --
    > > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    > > >
    > > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > > > ------
    > > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > > > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    >
    > <SNIP>
    >
    >
  38. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    The machines here all have integrated Intel® 82810 Graphics Controllers.
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

    "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    news:eZdd3YjKFHA.3356@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > The latest suspicion implicates the video adapter / driver.
    > See other thread in this ng for details.
    > --
    > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > ------
    > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > news:%23uMY9qcKFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > > I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can get on those
    > machines
    > > again.
    > > --
    > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    > >
    > > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > > news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > > > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same BIOS's
    > and
    > > > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules out
    > > > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS timing
    > > > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new
    > Celeron
    > > > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    > > > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed identical,
    > > > i.e., no flashed items.
    > > >
    > > > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    > > >
    > > > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest reports
    > for
    > > > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    > > > --
    > > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    > > >
    > > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > > > ------
    > > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > > > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    >
    > <SNIP>
    >
    >
  39. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    To my knowledge, the KB891711 "patch" is adversely affecting some machines,
    but not many. The common thread or cause is not yet apparent.
    I don't know whether MS knew beforehand that this would occur.
    I think that affected users should follow MVP Jim Eshelman's advice and
    disable or uninstall the patch until further notice.
    The patch does not execute in Safe Mode and can be uninstalled using the
    Add-Remove Programs wizard, among other ways.

    Your machine is one of the more new, more powerful ones to be affected, to
    my knowledge.
    Thank you for the report.
    --
    Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm

    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    ------
    "Star" <star@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:113i5ac23g8ldcf@corp.supernews.com...
    > Jack,
    > My machine is 2 GHz, Celeron w/Asus P4SGX-MX MB w/SIS 650GX video chipset
    > currently in use.
    >
    > The update patch caused IE to crash to BSOD, exactly like PCR's
    description.
    > Offline, IE worked great, loaded many .html's into it from off my local
    hd.
    >
    > I'm on dial-up, simple DUN connection, no ISP s/w involved and do not use
    > ICW. Pc-cillin is my a/v s/w and my only firewall is via Pc-cillin,
    however
    > the puter is stealth per Gibson's site and my configuration of my
    firewall.
    >
    > I have removed the patch KB891711. I have had no more problems, in fact,
    I
    > had no problems after I disabled it in msconfig, but I wouldn't expect to,
    > and I still have patch KB888113 which I took at the same time.
    >
    > Personally, I won't use this update as it is configured to startup and run
    > w/Windows. I start any services I want to use after I connect to the
    > Internet... ONLY Pc-cillin starts up and runs w/Windows and I maintain a
    > normal startup.
    >
    > What is Microsoft thinking... this patch is downright **Goofy** (my mild
    > opinion)!!
    >
    > Star
    >
    >
    > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > news:eZdd3YjKFHA.3356@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > The latest suspicion implicates the video adapter / driver.
    > > See other thread in this ng for details.
    > > --
    > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    > >
    > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > > ------
    > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > > news:%23uMY9qcKFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > > > I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can get on
    those
    > > > machines again.
    > > > --
    > > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    > > >
    > > > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > > > > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same
    BIOS's and
    > > > > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules
    out
    > > > > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS
    timing
    > > > > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new
    Celeron
    > > > > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    > > > > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed
    identical,
    > > > > i.e., no flashed items.
    > > > >
    > > > > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    > > > >
    > > > > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest
    reports for
    > > > > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    > > > > --
    > > > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > > > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    > > > >
    > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > > > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > > > >
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > > > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > > > > ------
    > > > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > > > > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > >
    > > <SNIP>
    > >
  40. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Glee, Star, Martinelli, all...
    news:O$AIqyzKFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl
    Subject: Re: KB891711
    Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:01:54 -0500

    It's long-winded, but there is a way I can get IE to work with KB891711.exe running. Hmmm, I'm starting to wonder, though, what it means...

    Can it be, the instance of IE that is working that way is NOT protected by KB891711.exe?


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message news:%23H6nZ3vKFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | To my knowledge, the KB891711 "patch" is adversely affecting some machines,
    | but not many. The common thread or cause is not yet apparent.
    | I don't know whether MS knew beforehand that this would occur.
    | I think that affected users should follow MVP Jim Eshelman's advice and
    | disable or uninstall the patch until further notice.
    | The patch does not execute in Safe Mode and can be uninstalled using the
    | Add-Remove Programs wizard, among other ways.
    |
    | Your machine is one of the more new, more powerful ones to be affected, to
    | my knowledge.
    | Thank you for the report.
    | --
    | Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    |
    | http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | ------
    | "Star" <star@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    | news:113i5ac23g8ldcf@corp.supernews.com...
    | > Jack,
    | > My machine is 2 GHz, Celeron w/Asus P4SGX-MX MB w/SIS 650GX video chipset
    | > currently in use.
    | >
    | > The update patch caused IE to crash to BSOD, exactly like PCR's
    | description.
    | > Offline, IE worked great, loaded many .html's into it from off my local
    | hd.
    | >
    | > I'm on dial-up, simple DUN connection, no ISP s/w involved and do not use
    | > ICW. Pc-cillin is my a/v s/w and my only firewall is via Pc-cillin,
    | however
    | > the puter is stealth per Gibson's site and my configuration of my
    | firewall.
    | >
    | > I have removed the patch KB891711. I have had no more problems, in fact,
    | I
    | > had no problems after I disabled it in msconfig, but I wouldn't expect to,
    | > and I still have patch KB888113 which I took at the same time.
    | >
    | > Personally, I won't use this update as it is configured to startup and run
    | > w/Windows. I start any services I want to use after I connect to the
    | > Internet... ONLY Pc-cillin starts up and runs w/Windows and I maintain a
    | > normal startup.
    | >
    | > What is Microsoft thinking... this patch is downright **Goofy** (my mild
    | > opinion)!!
    | >
    | > Star
    | >
    | >
    | > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    | > news:eZdd3YjKFHA.3356@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    | > > The latest suspicion implicates the video adapter / driver.
    | > > See other thread in this ng for details.
    | > > --
    | > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    | > >
    | > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | > > ------
    | > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    | > > news:%23uMY9qcKFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    | > > > I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can get on
    | those
    | > > > machines again.
    | > > > --
    | > > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    | > > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    | > > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    | > > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    | > > >
    | > > > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    | > > > news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | > > > > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same
    | BIOS's and
    | > > > > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules
    | out
    | > > > > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS
    | timing
    | > > > > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new
    | Celeron
    | > > > > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    | > > > > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed
    | identical,
    | > > > > i.e., no flashed items.
    | > > > >
    | > > > > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    | > > > >
    | > > > > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest
    | reports for
    | > > > > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    | > > > > --
    | > > > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | > > > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    | > > > >
    | > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | > > > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | > > > >
    | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | > > > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | > > > > ------
    | > > > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    | > > > > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    | > >
    | > > <SNIP>
    | > >
    |
    |
  41. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    PCR,

    You may be on to *something*, BUT that would depend on what you did to make
    it work and you didn't share that finding!!

    You are saying, **my IE crashes w/patch, and **IT SHOULD** as that is the
    protection of the patch correctly working**

    Yes/No, am I correct ??

    Star


    "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    news:Og31ZP0KFHA.1156@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    Glee, Star, Martinelli, all...
    news:O$AIqyzKFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl
    Subject: Re: KB891711
    Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:01:54 -0500

    It's long-winded, but there is a way I can get IE to work with KB891711.exe
    running. Hmmm, I'm starting to wonder, though, what it means...

    Can it be, the instance of IE that is working that way is NOT protected by
    KB891711.exe?


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    news:%23H6nZ3vKFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | To my knowledge, the KB891711 "patch" is adversely affecting some
    machines,
    | but not many. The common thread or cause is not yet apparent.
    | I don't know whether MS knew beforehand that this would occur.
    | I think that affected users should follow MVP Jim Eshelman's advice and
    | disable or uninstall the patch until further notice.
    | The patch does not execute in Safe Mode and can be uninstalled using the
    | Add-Remove Programs wizard, among other ways.
    |
    | Your machine is one of the more new, more powerful ones to be affected, to
    | my knowledge.
    | Thank you for the report.
    | --
    | Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    |
    | http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | ------
    | "Star" <star@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    | news:113i5ac23g8ldcf@corp.supernews.com...
    | > Jack,
    | > My machine is 2 GHz, Celeron w/Asus P4SGX-MX MB w/SIS 650GX video
    chipset
    | > currently in use.
    | >
    | > The update patch caused IE to crash to BSOD, exactly like PCR's
    | description.
    | > Offline, IE worked great, loaded many .html's into it from off my local
    | hd.
    | >
    | > I'm on dial-up, simple DUN connection, no ISP s/w involved and do not
    use
    | > ICW. Pc-cillin is my a/v s/w and my only firewall is via Pc-cillin,
    | however
    | > the puter is stealth per Gibson's site and my configuration of my
    | firewall.
    | >
    | > I have removed the patch KB891711. I have had no more problems, in
    fact,
    | I
    | > had no problems after I disabled it in msconfig, but I wouldn't expect
    to,
    | > and I still have patch KB888113 which I took at the same time.
    | >
    | > Personally, I won't use this update as it is configured to startup and
    run
    | > w/Windows. I start any services I want to use after I connect to the
    | > Internet... ONLY Pc-cillin starts up and runs w/Windows and I maintain a
    | > normal startup.
    | >
    | > What is Microsoft thinking... this patch is downright **Goofy** (my mild
    | > opinion)!!
    | >
    | > Star
    | >
    | >
    | > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    | > news:eZdd3YjKFHA.3356@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    | > > The latest suspicion implicates the video adapter / driver.
    | > > See other thread in this ng for details.
    | > > --
    | > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    | > >
    | > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | > > ------
    | > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    | > > news:%23uMY9qcKFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    | > > > I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can get on
    | those
    | > > > machines again.
    | > > > --
    | > > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    | > > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    | > > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    | > > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    | > > >
    | > > > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in
    message
    | > > > news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | > > > > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same
    | BIOS's and
    | > > > > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules
    | out
    | > > > > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS
    | timing
    | > > > > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new
    | Celeron
    | > > > > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    | > > > > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed
    | identical,
    | > > > > i.e., no flashed items.
    | > > > >
    | > > > > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    | > > > >
    | > > > > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest
    | reports for
    | > > > > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    | > > > > --
    | > > > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | > > > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    | > > > >
    | > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | > > > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | > > > >
    | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | > > > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | > > > > ------
    | > > > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    | > > > > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    | > >
    | > > <SNIP>
    | > >
    |
    |
  42. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    You are saying, **my IE crashes w/patch, and **IT SHOULD** as that is the
    protection of the patch correctly working**

    ****Sooo, the patch prevents IE from launching... if the patch fails in
    protection...****

    Microsoft wouldn't make/design a patch like that PCR.

    Star


    "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    news:Og31ZP0KFHA.1156@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    Glee, Star, Martinelli, all...
    news:O$AIqyzKFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl
    Subject: Re: KB891711
    Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:01:54 -0500

    It's long-winded, but there is a way I can get IE to work with KB891711.exe
    running. Hmmm, I'm starting to wonder, though, what it means...

    Can it be, the instance of IE that is working that way is NOT protected by
    KB891711.exe?


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    news:%23H6nZ3vKFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | To my knowledge, the KB891711 "patch" is adversely affecting some
    machines,
    | but not many. The common thread or cause is not yet apparent.
    | I don't know whether MS knew beforehand that this would occur.
    | I think that affected users should follow MVP Jim Eshelman's advice and
    | disable or uninstall the patch until further notice.
    | The patch does not execute in Safe Mode and can be uninstalled using the
    | Add-Remove Programs wizard, among other ways.
    |
    | Your machine is one of the more new, more powerful ones to be affected, to
    | my knowledge.
    | Thank you for the report.
    | --
    | Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    |
    | http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | ------
    | "Star" <star@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    | news:113i5ac23g8ldcf@corp.supernews.com...
    | > Jack,
    | > My machine is 2 GHz, Celeron w/Asus P4SGX-MX MB w/SIS 650GX video
    chipset
    | > currently in use.
    | >
    | > The update patch caused IE to crash to BSOD, exactly like PCR's
    | description.
    | > Offline, IE worked great, loaded many .html's into it from off my local
    | hd.
    | >
    | > I'm on dial-up, simple DUN connection, no ISP s/w involved and do not
    use
    | > ICW. Pc-cillin is my a/v s/w and my only firewall is via Pc-cillin,
    | however
    | > the puter is stealth per Gibson's site and my configuration of my
    | firewall.
    | >
    | > I have removed the patch KB891711. I have had no more problems, in
    fact,
    | I
    | > had no problems after I disabled it in msconfig, but I wouldn't expect
    to,
    | > and I still have patch KB888113 which I took at the same time.
    | >
    | > Personally, I won't use this update as it is configured to startup and
    run
    | > w/Windows. I start any services I want to use after I connect to the
    | > Internet... ONLY Pc-cillin starts up and runs w/Windows and I maintain a
    | > normal startup.
    | >
    | > What is Microsoft thinking... this patch is downright **Goofy** (my mild
    | > opinion)!!
    | >
    | > Star
    | >
    | >
    | > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    | > news:eZdd3YjKFHA.3356@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    | > > The latest suspicion implicates the video adapter / driver.
    | > > See other thread in this ng for details.
    | > > --
    | > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    | > >
    | > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | > > ------
    | > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    | > > news:%23uMY9qcKFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    | > > > I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can get on
    | those
    | > > > machines again.
    | > > > --
    | > > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    | > > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    | > > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    | > > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    | > > >
    | > > > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in
    message
    | > > > news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | > > > > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the same
    | BIOS's and
    | > > > > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather rules
    | out
    | > > > > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some BIOS
    | timing
    | > > > > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott and new
    | Celeron
    | > > > > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    | > > > > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are indeed
    | identical,
    | > > > > i.e., no flashed items.
    | > > > >
    | > > > > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    | > > > >
    | > > > > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and Everest
    | reports for
    | > > > > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    | > > > > --
    | > > > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    | > > > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    | > > > >
    | > > > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    | > > > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    | > > > >
    | http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    | > > > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    | > > > > ------
    | > > > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    | > > > > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    | > >
    | > > <SNIP>
    | > >
    |
    |
  43. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I guess my write-up is confusedly written-up. Please go to that thread, though, & respond to it there. No, I said...

    If an instance of IE is open offline, IE will continue to work after going online, UNTIL that instance is closed. Then, the BSOD resume at every attempt to open another IE or click an URL.

    This is true, despite NetZero still caused a BSOD after it connected while trying to open it's home page.

    But please go there.


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Star" <star@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:113k5eb67luv672@corp.supernews.com...
    | You are saying, **my IE crashes w/patch, and **IT SHOULD** as that is the
    | protection of the patch correctly working**
    |
    | ****Sooo, the patch prevents IE from launching... if the patch fails in
    | protection...****
    |
    | Microsoft wouldn't make/design a patch like that PCR.
    |
    | Star
    |
    |
    | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    | news:Og31ZP0KFHA.1156@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | Glee, Star, Martinelli, all...
    | news:O$AIqyzKFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl
    | Subject: Re: KB891711
    | Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:01:54 -0500
    |
    | It's long-winded, but there is a way I can get IE to work with KB891711.exe
    | running. Hmmm, I'm starting to wonder, though, what it means...
    |
    | Can it be, the instance of IE that is working that way is NOT protected by
    | KB891711.exe?
    ....snip
  44. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    More of his "humor", I suspect. And you *still* listen to PCR?

    --
    Gary S. Terhune
    MS MVP Shell/User
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

    "Star" <star@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:113k5eb67luv672@corp.supernews.com...
    > You are saying, **my IE crashes w/patch, and **IT SHOULD** as that is
    the
    > protection of the patch correctly working**
    >
    > ****Sooo, the patch prevents IE from launching... if the patch fails
    in
    > protection...****
    >
    > Microsoft wouldn't make/design a patch like that PCR.
    >
    > Star
    >
    >
    > "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    > news:Og31ZP0KFHA.1156@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > Glee, Star, Martinelli, all...
    > news:O$AIqyzKFHA.580@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl
    > Subject: Re: KB891711
    > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:01:54 -0500
    >
    > It's long-winded, but there is a way I can get IE to work with
    KB891711.exe
    > running. Hmmm, I'm starting to wonder, though, what it means...
    >
    > Can it be, the instance of IE that is working that way is NOT
    protected by
    > KB891711.exe?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Thanks or Good Luck,
    > There may be humor in this post, and,
    > Naturally, you will not sue,
    > should things get worse after this,
    > PCR
    > pcrrcp@netzero.net
    > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in message
    > news:%23H6nZ3vKFHA.3616@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > | To my knowledge, the KB891711 "patch" is adversely affecting some
    > machines,
    > | but not many. The common thread or cause is not yet apparent.
    > | I don't know whether MS knew beforehand that this would occur.
    > | I think that affected users should follow MVP Jim Eshelman's advice
    and
    > | disable or uninstall the patch until further notice.
    > | The patch does not execute in Safe Mode and can be uninstalled using
    the
    > | Add-Remove Programs wizard, among other ways.
    > |
    > | Your machine is one of the more new, more powerful ones to be
    affected, to
    > | my knowledge.
    > | Thank you for the report.
    > | --
    > | Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > | Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    > |
    > | http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > | In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > |
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > | Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > | ------
    > | "Star" <star@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > | news:113i5ac23g8ldcf@corp.supernews.com...
    > | > Jack,
    > | > My machine is 2 GHz, Celeron w/Asus P4SGX-MX MB w/SIS 650GX video
    > chipset
    > | > currently in use.
    > | >
    > | > The update patch caused IE to crash to BSOD, exactly like PCR's
    > | description.
    > | > Offline, IE worked great, loaded many .html's into it from off my
    local
    > | hd.
    > | >
    > | > I'm on dial-up, simple DUN connection, no ISP s/w involved and do
    not
    > use
    > | > ICW. Pc-cillin is my a/v s/w and my only firewall is via
    Pc-cillin,
    > | however
    > | > the puter is stealth per Gibson's site and my configuration of my
    > | firewall.
    > | >
    > | > I have removed the patch KB891711. I have had no more problems,
    in
    > fact,
    > | I
    > | > had no problems after I disabled it in msconfig, but I wouldn't
    expect
    > to,
    > | > and I still have patch KB888113 which I took at the same time.
    > | >
    > | > Personally, I won't use this update as it is configured to startup
    and
    > run
    > | > w/Windows. I start any services I want to use after I connect to
    the
    > | > Internet... ONLY Pc-cillin starts up and runs w/Windows and I
    maintain a
    > | > normal startup.
    > | >
    > | > What is Microsoft thinking... this patch is downright **Goofy**
    (my mild
    > | > opinion)!!
    > | >
    > | > Star
    > | >
    > | >
    > | > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in
    message
    > | > news:eZdd3YjKFHA.3356@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > | > > The latest suspicion implicates the video adapter / driver.
    > | > > See other thread in this ng for details.
    > | > > --
    > | > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User / DTS
    > | > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    > | > >
    > | > > http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > | > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > | > >
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > | > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > | > > ------
    > | > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > | > > news:%23uMY9qcKFHA.2648@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    > | > > > I will try to get the info, but it may be days before I can
    get on
    > | those
    > | > > > machines again.
    > | > > > --
    > | > > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > | > > > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > | > > > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > | > > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    > | > > >
    > | > > > "Jack E Martinelli" <jemartin_DELETE@NO_SPAM_gis.net> wrote in
    > message
    > | > > > news:Os9gZFWKFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > | > > > > Glen, if you are seeing three identical machines with the
    same
    > | BIOS's and
    > | > > > > only two are exhibiting the 891711 problem then that rather
    rules
    > | out
    > | > > > > (tentatively) Mike Malby's suggestion that the issue is some
    BIOS
    > | timing
    > | > > > > problem, as seen earlier with the first released Prescott
    and new
    > | Celeron
    > | > > > > cpu's and the early OEM-BIOS's.
    > | > > > > Please confirm that the Dell/Intell machine BIOS's are
    indeed
    > | identical,
    > | > > > > i.e., no flashed items.
    > | > > > >
    > | > > > > Your observations also kill the "only-AMD cpu" connection.
    > | > > > >
    > | > > > > Perhaps a close examination of the Belarc Advisor and
    Everest
    > | reports for
    > | > > > > the three machines will reveal the cause ...
    > | > > > > --
    > | > > > > Jack E. Martinelli 2002-05 MS MVP for Shell/User /
    DTS
    > | > > > > Help us help you: http://www.dts-L.org/goodpost.htm
    > | > > > >
    > | > > > >
    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx
    > | > > > > In Memorium: Alex Nichol
    > | > > > >
    > |
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/nichol.mspx
    > | > > > > Your cooperation is very appreciated.
    > | > > > > ------
    > | > > > > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > | > > > > news:%23cEIjfRKFHA.3332@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > | > >
    > | > > <SNIP>
    > | > >
    > |
    > |
    >
    >
  45. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Oh! It's unfortunate, but an Export of a Registry key will often look different from how it looks in the Registry.

    (a) (default) shows up as @.
    (b) Single slashes (\) become double (\\).
    (c) What you said.
    (d) Other even weirder effects.


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message news:eKcntV1KFHA.576@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    | PCR, I now have KB891711 installed and it does appear as you said except the
    | "IsInstalled" dword is slightly different, being, 0x00000001 [1]. Would be
    | interesting to uninstall again and see if the circumstances are as before.
    |
    |
    | That being said, I'm through foolin' around with the KB891711 issue as this
    | particular anomalous behavior seems to have no bearing on the problem or its
    | solution.
    |
    | "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    | news:OEJLVU0KFHA.4092@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    | LAH, thanks, I no longer suspect those files.
    |
    | bobster, that's an odd circumstance you describe. I would think it's this
    | Registry key that determines what the site thinks about it...
    |
    | [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Active Setup\Installed
    | Components\{2cd1b477-8d46-4b86-b7dc-13fb65fb5914}]
    | @="Windows 98 KB891711 Update"
    | "IsInstalled"=dword:00000001
    | "Locale"="EN"
    | "Version"="4.10.0.2222"
    |
    |
    | --
    | Thanks or Good Luck,
    | There may be humor in this post, and,
    | Naturally, you will not sue,
    | should things get worse after this,
    | PCR
    | pcrrcp@netzero.net
    | "LAH" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
    | news:eO6lAIvKFHA.2640@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    ....snip
  46. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    It's true I need to work on that, BUT this wasn't an example of it!

    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:u9yD002KFHA.3340@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    | More of his "humor", I suspect. And you *still* listen to PCR?
    |
    | --
    | Gary S. Terhune
    | MS MVP Shell/User
    | http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    | http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    |
    | "Star" <star@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    | news:113k5eb67luv672@corp.supernews.com...
    | > You are saying, **my IE crashes w/patch, and **IT SHOULD** as that
    is
    | the
    | > protection of the patch correctly working**
    | >
    | > ****Sooo, the patch prevents IE from launching... if the patch fails
    | in
    | > protection...****
    | >
    | > Microsoft wouldn't make/design a patch like that PCR.
    | >
    | > Star
    | >
    | >
    | > "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote in message
    | > news:Og31ZP0KFHA.1156@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    ....snip
  47. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    That's interesting, because GEODisk was specifically designed to close ALL running
    apps except Explorer. I wonder why it cannot close KB891711.exe, when it *can* be
    closed manually using Ctrl+Alt+Delete. Hmmm....
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

    "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
    news:O2uxTvlKFHA.132@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
    > news:utwAsJgKFHA.1308@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > >
    > > "bobster" <fauxie@bogus.net> wrote in message
    > > news:OAOr8GgKFHA.244@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > > > .
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "LAH" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:uQCWIHeKFHA.572@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > > > > news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > > > > > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > > > > > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > > > > > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report
    > the
    > > > > > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect
    > data
    > > > > > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying
    > to
    > > > > > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > > > > > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain
    > > from
    > > > > > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep
    > it
    > > > > > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more
    > > specific
    > > > > > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > > > > > review other posts to this NG for background.
    > > > > > <snip>
    > > > >
    > > > > > Gary S. Terhune
    > > > > > MS MVP Shell/User
    > > > > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > > > > > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    > > > > >
    > > > > I know you're asking for responses from those having problems but
    > > perhaps
    > > > > you might also find it useful to hear from those of us who are not. I
    > > > have
    > > > > all the latest updates and am having no problems. I running:
    > > > > Windows 98SE
    > > > > HP Pavilion 8380
    > > > > 400 MHz Pentium II
    > > > > 224.OMB RAM
    > > > > 40 GB
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Here's another data point.
    > > >
    > > > I reported earlier that I had downloaded KB891711 last week and had
    > > > experienced no problems. However, tonight when I attempted my weekly
    > > > scandisk/defrag using GEODisk2, I got a BSOD. After a bit of
    > > > experimentation, I found that if I did a ctrl-alt-del and closed
    > KB891711,
    > > > then invoked GEODisk2, scandisk/defrag would proceed normally. So far
    > > > that's the only anomaly I've encountered.
    > > >
    > > > Win98SE
    > > > P11, 300MHz
    > > > 320 meg RAM
    > >
    > > And BTW, Comcast cable
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Another data point. At one time during my experimentation with the KB891711
    > problem, I uninstalled it using add/remove programs. This successfully
    > removed it from the start menu and MSCONFIG. When I later tried to
    > reinstall it from Windows Update I got the "no new critical updates
    > available" message. Since KB891711 apppeared to have little negative
    > effect, I had wanted to reinstall it to get the alleged protection it
    > provided. I did a "find files or folders" search and discovered that there
    > were two KB891711 folders remaining after the uninstall. Apparently Windows
    > Update erroneously saw these as evidence that KB891711 was resident on my
    > computer. I deleted them, went back to Windows Update and was able to
    > download KB891711 with no trouble. So far, the only problem I have seen
    > with KB891711 installed is the previously noted inability to scandisk/defrag
    > with GEODisk2.
    >
    >
  48. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Among the info I would like to see from posters having problems with update
    KB891711(particularly blue secreens and freezes), is whether or not they are using
    animated cursors/mouse-pointers in Windows, either as part of a Desktop Theme
    (Control Panel> Desktop Themes) or simply as a mouse pointer option in Control
    Panel> Mouse.
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

    "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    > In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    > KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    > encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    > results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    > in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    > pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    > posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    > additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    > clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    > tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    > review other posts to this NG for background.
    >
    > 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    >
    > 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    > enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    > details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    > Registers, please.
    >
    > 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    > errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    > MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    >
    > 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    > functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    > tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    > internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    > IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    > anywhere, yet.
    >
    > 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    > internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    > restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    > it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    > Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    > connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    > reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    > progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    > each juncture.
    >
    > If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
    > and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    > related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    > *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)
    >
    > --
    > Gary S. Terhune
    > MS MVP Shell/User
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    > http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >
    >
  49. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Glen,
    On 98SE/IE6 fully updated and even running, "cough cough", NIS 2005 (actually
    not so much as a hiccup). It has an animated pointer assigned by myself along
    with the America at War theme.

    --

    Brian A.

    Conflicts start where information lacks.
    http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:OVaQ99OLFHA.3512@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > Among the info I would like to see from posters having problems with update
    > KB891711(particularly blue secreens and freezes), is whether or not they are
    > using
    > animated cursors/mouse-pointers in Windows, either as part of a Desktop Theme
    > (Control Panel> Desktop Themes) or simply as a mouse pointer option in Control
    > Panel> Mouse.
    > --
    > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > ~ In memory of our friend, MVP Alex Nichol ~
    > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
    > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    > "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
    > news:usbTRpKKFHA.3336@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
    >> In order that we might better dissect the obvious problem that is
    >> KB891711.EXE, I'd like to request any and all persons who have
    >> encountered the problems to please do some tests for me and report the
    >> results according to the schema below. My goal here is to collect data
    >> in a standardized and methodical manner for MS techs to use. Trying to
    >> pick through the somewhat haphazard anecdotal evidence that has been
    >> posted thus far would make the task more difficult. Please refrain from
    >> additional discussion of the issue in this thread. I'd like to keep it
    >> clean of speculation, etc. I'm sure that if the techs want more specific
    >> tests done, they'll ask, and I'm sure, also, that they will likely
    >> review other posts to this NG for background.
    >>
    >> 1. How do you connect to the internet? Dial-up, DSL, cable?
    >>
    >> 2. Without changing anything, and with your normal background apps
    >> enabled, when and how do errors occur, and what are the exact, verbatim
    >> details of these errors? In the case of non-BSOD errors, include
    >> Registers, please.
    >>
    >> 3. What, if any, tricks have you discovered that allow you to bypass
    >> errors (other than disabling anything, including KB891711.EXE in
    >> MSCONFIG or otherwise killing processes.)
    >>
    >> 4. Using your AV settings, disable any real-time or background
    >> functions. Then go into MSCONFIG and disable everything in the Startup
    >> tab *except* KB891711.EXE. Physically disconnect your system from any
    >> internet connection, then restart. Try various programs, most especially
    >> IE or whatever your default browser is. Yes, I know you won't get
    >> anywhere, yet.
    >>
    >> 5. Whether or not errors occur in step 4, reconnect your system to the
    >> internet and attempt to go online. Report any errors. (You may want to
    >> restart again before this step.) Do not stay online if you actually make
    >> it there. No AV and no Firewall mean you're a ripe target for invasion.
    >> Quit your browser and then immediately disconnect the physical
    >> connection. Go into MSCONFIG and re-enable your firewall, restart and
    >> reconnect to the internet, then test. Next, test with AV enabled. Then
    >> progressively re-enable the rest of the items in MSCONFIG, testing at
    >> each juncture.
    >>
    >> If any Windows ME users are lurking and have problems with KB891711.EXE
    >> and want to participate, be sure not to disable items in MSCONFIG
    >> related to System Restore (I *think* that's the ones marked by an
    >> *asterisk, but I'm not certain.)
    >>
    >> --
    >> Gary S. Terhune
    >> MS MVP Shell/User
    >> http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
    >> http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
    >>
    >>
    >
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