Fonts directory and Application Data directory: reinistall..

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

Greetings. After a disaster, I have done a format and clean install of
Win98SE plus all Critical Updates. Prior to the disaster, I made a backup of
my Fonts directory and my Application Data directory. Now I'm wondering what
to do with those backups.

1. Can I just copy the backup Fonts directory to replace the Fonts directory
that has been created in the new Win98SE installation? Or do I need to drag
the font files out of that backed-up Fonts folder, and then use the File |
Install New Fonts command to install each of the fonts from the backup?

2. Application Data directory contains files related to various
applications. Can I copy those files over to replace the ones in the new
Application Data directory? Will that restore the user preferences I had set
for those applications before the reinstall?

Thanks for any guidance.

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

"Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:ecMpXLLKFHA.3652@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "Tuttle" <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote in message
> news:uBe5k1KKFHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Greetings. After a disaster, I have done a format and clean install of
> > Win98SE plus all Critical Updates. Prior to the disaster, I made a
> > backup of my Fonts directory

> > drag the font files out of that backed-up Fonts folder, and then use
> > File | Install New Fonts command to install each of the fonts from
> > the backup?

> Unless you have a font manager, you have to reinstall the fonts
> manually, just the way you describe in the latter half of that
> paragraph. Fonts aren't installed by virtue of being in the Fonts
> folder. There are Registry entries that get created during installation.

I thought I should post what I found, for benefit of anyone in future
searching for similar info.

As I said, I had made a backup of the entire Fonts directory from my Win98SE
system. I had simply dragged/copied that entire folder to an external USB
drive.

Today, following Gary's advice, I opened the old Fonts folder from the
external drive so I could view its contents. I left that window open. Then
on my newly-installed system I went to Control Panel | Fonts and opened it,
in order to use the Install New Fonts command to install the fonts from the
backup. Surprise, surprise: all the fonts from the backup were present in
the system's Fonts folder. Bizarre. I even tried using them from within MS
Word, and they work.

Here's my theory: because I had copied/backed-up the entire Fonts folder,
including the folder, somehow Windows knows that that is a special system
folder. In fact when I opened the old Fonts folder from the external drive,
its File menu also had the Install New Fonts command. So maybe because I
didn't just copy the fonts files, but copied the entire folder, Windows
automatically loads all those fonts onto the new system. Weird, but saved me
a lot of work.

I tested my theory about Windows having some "link" between the old copied
Fonts folder on the external drive, and the "real" Fonts folder on the new
system. I installed a new font onto the new system. I then opened the old
Fonts folder from the external drive, and magically that new font is now
there as well.

Strange stuff, but sure helped me out. Any comments on my theory?

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

In microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion, "Tuttle"
<nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote:

Comments?
Yes, your are close. This is due to a couple of things and can be
remedied.

1. You have left the System attribute on the false font folder
2. You have left the hidden (and very well hidden) Desktop.ini in the
false font folder.

I strongly suggest you fix this, as the mirror effect of having two
system-enabled Fonts folders can be a bit confusing. You may find it
hard to determine exactly where the fonts are. You may think they are
in both folders but it is not necessarily so. The Fonts folder is not
a WYSIWYG system.

Remove the System attribute on the false folder.
Remove Desktop.ini (You may have to actually search for it from within
the false folder to see it)

....Alan

--
Alan Edwards, MS MVP W95/98 Systems
http://dts-l.org/index.html

>Today, following Gary's advice, I opened the old Fonts folder from the
>external drive so I could view its contents. I left that window open. Then
>on my newly-installed system I went to Control Panel | Fonts and opened it,
>in order to use the Install New Fonts command to install the fonts from the
>backup. Surprise, surprise: all the fonts from the backup were present in
>the system's Fonts folder. Bizarre. I even tried using them from within MS
>Word, and they work.
>
>Here's my theory: because I had copied/backed-up the entire Fonts folder,
>including the folder, somehow Windows knows that that is a special system
>folder. In fact when I opened the old Fonts folder from the external drive,
>its File menu also had the Install New Fonts command. So maybe because I
>didn't just copy the fonts files, but copied the entire folder, Windows
>automatically loads all those fonts onto the new system. Weird, but saved me
>a lot of work.
>
>I tested my theory about Windows having some "link" between the old copied
>Fonts folder on the external drive, and the "real" Fonts folder on the new
>system. I installed a new font onto the new system. I then opened the old
>Fonts folder from the external drive, and magically that new font is now
>there as well.
>
>Strange stuff, but sure helped me out. Any comments on my theory?
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

Open a DOS window

....Alan

--
Alan Edwards, MS MVP W95/98 Systems
http://dts-l.org/index.html

In microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion, "Tuttle"
<nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote:

>"Alan Edwards" <edwards@southcom.com.au> wrote in message
>news:csec3113p38ukpq3ulvafsct8glvru2rk7@4ax.com...
>> In microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion, "Tuttle"
>> <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote:
>>
>> Comments?
>> Yes, your are close. This is due to a couple of things and can be
>> remedied.
>>
>> 1. You have left the System attribute on the false font folder
>> 2. You have left the hidden (and very well hidden) Desktop.ini in the
>> false font folder.
>>
>> I strongly suggest you fix this, as the mirror effect of having two
>> system-enabled Fonts folders can be a bit confusing. You may find it
>> hard to determine exactly where the fonts are. You may think they are
>> in both folders but it is not necessarily so. The Fonts folder is not
>> a WYSIWYG system.
>>
>> Remove the System attribute on the false folder.
>
>How do I do that? I've Googled, but the only methods found involve booting
>into DOS. If I do that, I won't have access to the USB drive. Is there
>another way to do this, such as maybe just opening a DOS window in Win98SE?
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

That isn't the command you want.You want to remove the System attribute
from the folder, not from the files within the folder.

E:\>attrib -s FONTS

Don't delete the folder. While it *appears* that all of the fonts have
been automatically installed to your new system, they haven't. Those
files you see in the C:\Windows\FONTS folder aren't really there. Those
are mirrors of what's in the other fonts folder.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Tuttle" <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote in message
news:uhVvDfbKFHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

>
> I opened a DOS window, opened that drive, cd'd to the copied Fonts
> directory, then did this:
>
> E:>FONTS> attrib -s *.*
>
> It returned a whole bunch of failure messages, like the following:
>
> Not resetting hidden file E:\fonts\VGASYS.FON
> Not resetting hidden file E:\fonts\MARLETT.TTF
> etc. ...
>
>
> What next?
> Should I just delete the entire directory? I no longer need this
backup, as
> I have reinstalled my system.
> In future, to make a backup of my fonts would it be better to drag
just the
> visible *contents* of the font folder, rather than the entire folder?
>
> (Thank you for your help)
>
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

Sorry, I was under the impression that a mirroring effect was going on,
that you had already found that when the USB drive was disabled, a
different set of fonts was shown in the C:\Windows\FONTS folder. When
you reinstalled your system, especially if you reinstalled all the same
applications, you will have also reinstalled all the same fonts as you
had before. I was just suggesting that before you delete the backup
fonts folder, you make *sure* that you really have them all installed.
If the backup folder no longer has the System attribute (there's only
one "backup fonts" folder, right?), you can be fairly certain that what
you see in the current FONTS folder is real.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Tuttle" <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote in message
news:%23VTrQsbKFHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
> newsduvJnbKFHA.1096@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > That isn't the command you want.You want to remove the System
attribute
> > from the folder, not from the files within the folder.
> >
> > E:\>attrib -s FONTS
>
> Thanks. That worked!
>
> > Don't delete the folder. While it *appears* that all of the fonts
have
> > been automatically installed to your new system, they haven't. Those
> > files you see in the C:\Windows\FONTS folder aren't really there.
Those
> > are mirrors of what's in the other fonts folder.
>
> Not that I would ever doubt you, but are you sure?
> When I reboot the PC, and the external drive is powered off, my real
Fonts
> folder shows the full list of my fonts, the identical number of fonts
as on
> the copy.
>
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

I didn't suggest you alter any attributes but the folder attributes
but I see you have it sorted.

Yes, back up the contents next time.

....Alan

--
Alan Edwards, MS MVP W95/98 Systems
http://dts-l.org/index.html

In microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion, "Tuttle"
<nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote:

>
>> In microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion, "Tuttle"
>> <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote:
>>
>> >"Alan Edwards" <edwards@southcom.com.au> wrote in message

>> >> Remove the System attribute on the false folder.
>
>I opened a DOS window, opened that drive, cd'd to the copied Fonts
>directory, then did this:
>
>E:>FONTS> attrib -s *.*
>
>It returned a whole bunch of failure messages, like the following:
>
> Not resetting hidden file E:\fonts\VGASYS.FON
> Not resetting hidden file E:\fonts\MARLETT.TTF
> etc. ...
>
>
>What next?
>Should I just delete the entire directory? I no longer need this backup, as
>I have reinstalled my system.
>In future, to make a backup of my fonts would it be better to drag just the
>visible *contents* of the font folder, rather than the entire folder?
>
>(Thank you for your help)
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

I currently have over 4500 unique fonts and font families, from lots of
different sources. By unique, I mean different foundries and different
filenames--but that includes 20 or 30 different flavors of Garamond, for
example. I have probably five or six different full backups--you can
never have too many backups! I never consider the active FONTS folder
*the* storage for my fonts.

Now, I run Windows XP, and except for horrendous loading times for some
Adobe products (which insist on enumerating fonts rather than using the
Registry) I usually have all of my fonts installed, both TrueType and
TypeOne versions (plus the smattering of OpenType.) But you can't do
that in Win9x, you can't usually have more than a few hundred fonts
installed before things get hinky. And there *are* times, when I find it
more convenient to pare the list down to a few hundred for certain
projects on my XP system.

Which is why I use Bitstream Font Navigator, both to make it easy to
search for fonts that match some submission (I do advertising graphics),
and to make it easy to uninstall and install fonts. I also have Adobe
ATM, and occasionally have to use it, but I find Font Navigator to be
more user-friendly. The version of Font Navigator I have came with a
WordPerfect Office suite, and I'm not sure it's still included in modern
versions.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Tuttle" <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote in message
newshjccScKFHA.1812@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>
> "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
> newsr9CC6bKFHA.3788@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Sorry, I was under the impression that a mirroring effect was going
on,
>
> I think there was, but it resulted in permanently installing extra
fonts to
> the PC, to the real C:\Windows\FONTS folder.
>
> > When
> > you reinstalled your system, especially if you reinstalled all the
same
> > applications, you will have also reinstalled all the same fonts as
you
> > had before.
>
> I had installed, and therefore backed up, additional fonts that did
not
> come with Windows or my applications. I think they are now also on the
PC,
> even though I didn't explicitly install them this time.
>
> > I was just suggesting that before you delete the backup
> > fonts folder, you make *sure* that you really have them all
installed.
> > If the backup folder no longer has the System attribute (there's
only
> > one "backup fonts" folder, right?), you can be fairly certain that
what
> > you see in the current FONTS folder is real.
>
> Okay, thanks. Good advice.
>
> In future, to make a backup of my fonts would it be better to drag
just the
> visible *contents* of the font folder, rather than the entire folder?
And
> would the same advice apply to backing up my Windows\Favorites and
> Windows\Desktop foldesr, that I should not backup the entire folders
because
> they are also "special"?
> (after all these years of using and installing Win98, there is still
lots
> for me to learn)
>
>
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

Further information:

Yes indeed, you were absolutely right. There was a mirroring effect
occurring, but in the opposite direction from what we thought. We thought
that the true FONTS folder on the PC was mirroring, and I even thought it
was automatically installing, fonts from the backup copy of FONTS on the
external drive, it wasn't. The reason the number of fonts was identical in
each folder was that the active FONTS folder on the PC was somehow causing
the backup copy to display the same total and same list of fonts.

After removing the System attribute from the backup copy, and deleting its
Desktop.ini, and rebooting, now the external fonts backup is a normal
folder. Lo and behold, that backup now shows far more fonts than before. It
did not list them in the total previously, and I could not see them, because
the active FONTS folder on the PC was somehow hiding them and causing the
backup to display identical information.

Weird stuff. Thanks very much for your help, and thanks to Alan Edwards for
his help.

What was it in the backup fonts folder that caused this weird mirroring? Was
it the System attribute or the Desktop.ini file?


"Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
newsr9CC6bKFHA.3788@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Sorry, I was under the impression that a mirroring effect was going on,
> that you had already found that when the USB drive was disabled, a
> different set of fonts was shown in the C:\Windows\FONTS folder. When
> you reinstalled your system, especially if you reinstalled all the same
> applications, you will have also reinstalled all the same fonts as you
> had before. I was just suggesting that before you delete the backup
> fonts folder, you make *sure* that you really have them all installed.
> If the backup folder no longer has the System attribute (there's only
> one "backup fonts" folder, right?), you can be fairly certain that what
> you see in the current FONTS folder is real.
>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS MVP Shell/User
> http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
> http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm
>
> "Tuttle" <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote in message
> news:%23VTrQsbKFHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> > "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
> > newsduvJnbKFHA.1096@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > > That isn't the command you want.You want to remove the System
> attribute
> > > from the folder, not from the files within the folder.
> > >
> > > E:\>attrib -s FONTS
> >
> > Thanks. That worked!
> >
> > > Don't delete the folder. While it *appears* that all of the fonts
> have
> > > been automatically installed to your new system, they haven't. Those
> > > files you see in the C:\Windows\FONTS folder aren't really there.
> Those
> > > are mirrors of what's in the other fonts folder.
> >
> > Not that I would ever doubt you, but are you sure?
> > When I reboot the PC, and the external drive is powered off, my real
> Fonts
> > folder shows the full list of my fonts, the identical number of fonts
> as on
> > the copy.
> >
> >
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

No reason you can't backup the "containers" as well as their contents.
But, in many cases, you shouldn't restore the containers, just the
contents.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Tuttle" <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote in message
news:eu%23z19iKFHA.604@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "Alan Edwards" <edwards@southcom.com.au> wrote in message
> news:c34f31tqihuv5co7s23eebqk4fl331lbsf@4ax.com...
> > Yes, backup the contents.
> > Yes, the same applies to Favorites, though a simpler backup is
> > IE-File-Export
>
> Right, but that requires manual intervention. Backing up the Favorites
and
> Fonts directories were simply part of my automated backup. I'll have
to
> rethink how that's done. It's awkward selecting all the folder
contents to
> backup without their container to hold them.
>
> > No idea why you would backup the Desktop but the same rule should
> > apply there or you will pick up Desktop.ini again.
>
> My Destop often includes new files awaiting my review. That way I see
them
> as a reminder. Perhaps that's not the best use of the Desktop.
>
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

In microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion, "Tuttle"
<nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote:

>Further information:
>
>Yes indeed, you were absolutely right. There was a mirroring effect
>occurring, but in the opposite direction from what we thought. We thought
>that the true FONTS folder on the PC was mirroring, and I even thought it
>was automatically installing, fonts from the backup copy of FONTS on the
>external drive, it wasn't. The reason the number of fonts was identical in
>each folder was that the active FONTS folder on the PC was somehow causing
>the backup copy to display the same total and same list of fonts.
>

Yes, that is the way the mirroring system works from hazy memory.
I haven't done it myself for many years, since I had Win95.


>After removing the System attribute from the backup copy, and deleting its
>Desktop.ini, and rebooting, now the external fonts backup is a normal
>folder. Lo and behold, that backup now shows far more fonts than before. It
>did not list them in the total previously, and I could not see them, because
>the active FONTS folder on the PC was somehow hiding them and causing the
>backup to display identical information.
>
>Weird stuff. Thanks very much for your help, and thanks to Alan Edwards for
>his help.
>
>What was it in the backup fonts folder that caused this weird mirroring? Was
>it the System attribute or the Desktop.ini file?
>

I have always thought you need both, but it has been reported to me
that you may get a mirror effect with just the System attribute. It
may not be exactly the same as if there was a Desktop.ini present.
As I do not wish to go down that path again, if you really want that
answer, you may have to either experiment or research.

You may have a look at a previous thread where Rick had reported
findings.
http://groups-beta.google.com/grou [...] edwards%22
(The second thread in the above)

....Alan

--
Alan Edwards, MS MVP W95/98 Systems
http://dts-l.org/index.html

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion,microsoft.public.win98.setup (More info?)

Only showing what's listed in the Registry (what's installed)? It's been
a long while since I played with fonts in earnest in Win98.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS MVP Shell/User
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/cleanboot.htm
http://www.grystmill.com/articles/security.htm

"Tuttle" <nospamhere@notarealaddressnospam.gs> wrote in message
newslkTKrBLFHA.156@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>
> "Gary S. Terhune" <grystnews@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:uZTanqjKFHA.1528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > I doubt it is what you think. When a Fonts folder has the System
> > attribute, many if not all files with the FON extension get hidden.
Is
> > it possible that the number of FON files in your backup folder would
> > account for the discrepancy?
>
> Nope, I just checked. There are a ton of .ttf (TrueType) font files in
the
> backup that are not present on the PC. But when that backup Fonts
folder had
> the System attribute and the Desktop.ini file, all those extra fonts
were
> hidden from me.
>
>