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Question about PhysX cards.

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  • Physx
  • Overclocking
  • Product
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April 21, 2006 11:59:38 PM

Ok so these new card that are coming out soon. Make spiffy explosions, and well all the other stuff is just fluff. My question is what happens when the card can't keep up with the action? Will it cause the frame rate to stutter, will the particles stutter but the action keep going? How will games handle a physics bottleneck?

More about : question physx cards

April 22, 2006 12:49:35 AM

The physics card has it's own chip so it is basically on it's own when doing it's physics thing. Just wait till this new PPU come out and with reviews like from THG or Anandtech would yeild an accurate results and most importantly how this thing could improve gaming other than cool explosions. :D 
April 22, 2006 3:56:18 AM

Yes I know what the chip is.
But does anyone know how will affect my gameplay when it is unable to handle it's job.?
Like lots of explosions or a gun fight in a misty map.
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April 22, 2006 3:57:39 AM

*Oops Double post*
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2006 4:23:39 AM

It's going to be like anything else. Almost useless when it first comes out, then games will catch up to it and utilize it to it's fullest, then it's going to be obsolete and we are going to get jerked off and have to buy the 512 version because the 128 and 256 versions won't be able to handle what the game-makers are going to put in their games. And it's my belief that the first run cards, which I read a few month's ago, should only be 250 bucks, are probable going to be a minimum of 350 bucks..... jerked off again. There's no end.
April 22, 2006 4:25:41 AM

just look at the game CELLFACTOR and watch any videos you can find at what ever gamesite you like to lurk around...i watched one video that that so much stuff was moving it was jaw dropping?
April 22, 2006 4:44:52 AM

Yes I did and I like what I see. That game is suppos to come out like Q4 of 2007. So we'll have to wait forever and maybe by then the first generation physics card would be outdated. :?
April 22, 2006 6:40:08 AM

yeah the physX card is gonna improve gaming to some extent and eventually be offered onboard motherboards like integrated graphics,and some say it will be on the PlayStation 3 also, but dont expect it to be super mainstream like video cards for at least around a year or so. plus the first ones out are about $300 bucks so dont put all ur pennys in this bucket yet and you gotta remember theres gonna be problems with it like everything else. And notice what looks like increased video lag with it on, so unless ur running a powerful graphics setup ur gonna be screwed.

and here are some vids of GRAW(Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter) and Cell Factor with it on.
http://physx.ageia.com/footage.html
April 22, 2006 8:04:15 AM

Yep wait for THG to test this before spending 300 make do with what you have now
April 22, 2006 9:07:54 AM

Quote:
just look at the game CELLFACTOR and watch any videos you can find at what ever gamesite you like to lurk around...i watched one video that that so much stuff was moving it was jaw dropping?


Watched it... and I'm just not seeing it. Frankly alot of stuff was thrown around for no good reason. That aside, let's imagine a situation where stuff is thrown around for good reason. Isn't that what my CPU is for?

This physics card thing to me looks like a way for some folks to make some more $ selling us something we really don't need. Heck they might even try and make it so we need it, ala a SLI certified board to run SLI. I'm interested to know who those folks are as they've got good connections. Already this thing is being heavily marketed so there's alot of $ behind it.
April 22, 2006 9:33:07 AM

Well it is a new hardware product and most are still skeptical about this physics card and wondering how a $300 piece of hardware can improve or most importantly if it is needed at all. Like back then, about a decade ago when the full 3D accelarator cards(GPU/Graphics card) are introduced, some thought that it is not practical and not needed to play or run 3D application for the CPU can render it. Look at the gaming pc of today and mostly due to the games itself that is the GPU are need to render the 3D visual and other effects for gaming. Right now in gaming the cpu is the one that govern the physics of the game and with the help of this new physics card that fucos mainly on the game's physics calculations, I have no doubt that not only it will improve the game visually but also performance wise at the physics strain is taken away from the cpu.

Question is, is it worth buying $300 for a physics card? Like for example would a $400 cpu and a $300 physics card be better compare to an $800 cpu itself during gaming? Is worth buying right now when few game uses it and none so far that would fully take advantage and utilize this physics card?

But right now I am very interested on this new hardware and definitely looking for to it. Next month should be it's launch that is if the manufacturer kept their promise, not that most do (Sony) and wait for them reviews from THG and other hardware journalist and enthusiast alike.
April 22, 2006 11:19:20 AM

Quote:
Yes I know what the chip is.
But does anyone know how will affect my gameplay when it is unable to handle it's job.?
Like lots of explosions or a gun fight in a misty map.


I image that, being a 100% dedicated ppu, it will have more than enough processing power to handle anything thrown at it. However, presumably game designers will be given information by agea on what the largest workload the card can safely process without slowing up anything else, so they can "budget" the physics effects so that they are guaranteed to be completed on time.

I suppose its a bit like console games, where they incorporate as much detail and clever stuff in the game as will smoothly run on the consoles hardware. They will be making games for a specific single piece of hardware, so its prety much guaranteed it will work.
April 22, 2006 11:21:55 AM

Quote:
Well it is a new hardware product and most are still skeptical about this physics card and wondering how a $300 piece of hardware can improve or most importantly if it is needed at all. Like back then, about a decade ago when the full 3D accelarator cards(GPU/Graphics card) are introduced, some thought that it is not practical and not needed to play or run 3D application for the CPU can render it. Look at the gaming pc of today and mostly due to the games itself that is the GPU are need to render the 3D visual and other effects for gaming. Right now in gaming the cpu is the one that govern the physics of the game and with the help of this new physics card that fucos mainly on the game's physics calculations, I have no doubt that not only it will improve the game visually but also performance wise at the physics strain is taken away from the cpu.

Question is, is it worth buying $300 for a physics card? Like for example would a $400 cpu and a $300 physics card be better compare to an $800 cpu itself during gaming? Is worth buying right now when few game uses it and none so far that would fully take advantage and utilize this physics card?

But right now I am very interested on this new hardware and definitely looking for to it. Next month should be it's launch that is if the manufacturer kept their promise, not that most do (Sony) and wait for them reviews from THG and other hardware journalist and enthusiast alike.


Well, seeing as from what i can tell, most games dont show much improvement at the moment on dual core processors, maybe the second core could be used to process the physics
April 22, 2006 11:26:29 AM

Quote:
just look at the game CELLFACTOR and watch any videos you can find at what ever gamesite you like to lurk around...i watched one video that that so much stuff was moving it was jaw dropping?


Watched it... and I'm just not seeing it. Frankly alot of stuff was thrown around for no good reason. That aside, let's imagine a situation where stuff is thrown around for good reason. Isn't that what my CPU is for?

This physics card thing to me looks like a way for some folks to make some more $ selling us something we really don't need. Heck they might even try and make it so we need it, ala a SLI certified board to run SLI. I'm interested to know who those folks are as they've got good connections. Already this thing is being heavily marketed so there's alot of $ behind it.


Cellfactor as I understand it was just a demo used to expolit the PhysX chip.

The fact that is going to a be a game in its own right now is pretty interesting. - But yes there is a lot of stuff being thrown about for no reason!! i think that is the fun in the game, i'm certainly taken with it.

There is no way a current CPU or near future CPU could handle the amount of phyical interactions that PhysX can do. If you have ever played Hl2 with garrys mod - which allows you to spawn loads of entities you will see it just doesn't compare. However, i'm sure there is plenty of game logic left for CPU to cruch through - hopefully this means improved AI (of course that is until we have AIPUs!)

Answerin the original question - I think there will either be a slow down in frame rate, or more likley stuttering, where the GPU has problem but objects undergoing a physical interaction will 'lag' until the PPU catches up.
This is more likley as the CPU will be out of the equation a little bit, it will be just funnelling the correct instructions to the relevant place. Normally slow down on the CPU will cause frame rate drops and stuttering.

Of course if we are all cynical about this - it is all about the money!
I am looking forward to seeing what this card can offer in terms of gameplay. i am hoping that it will be used to bolster multiplayer game servers to allow them to handle more of the most basic collisions. If you have ever played Couter strike source and got stuck to a moving object you will know what I mean.

Hopefully, this will lead to a all round improvement in the way that games deal with collisions - they aren't perfect now. And hopefully some creative individuals will produce some top notch gameplay ideas to go with that will help justify the purchase.
April 22, 2006 3:18:13 PM

yeah there is always going to be a money to performance issue, just like with video cards, so it just really gonna come down to the makers and how they will price it, but from what i see from dell,Alien ware, and Falcon NW the 128MB PPU card is a $300 add on so its best to wait untill we start seeing real world results.

PS. this card is likely being released to the public along side of GRAW (Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter) next month, beacause its the first game to utilize its capabilities. so just wait for reviews before u spend the cash.
heres the link to the footage again
http://physx.ageia.com/footage.html
April 22, 2006 3:48:43 PM

I hope I am wrong, but my money says that if there is any real performance boost it's only going to be seen in games particularly written to make use of the card, rather than make the CPU work.

AGEIA is creating a market for itself, and from the looks of it doing it well. It's already subsidized some of and placed it's name on FutureMark's latest 3dMark benchmark, so you can bet that'll show a healthy difference.

I just smell a rat with this physics card issue. I think anyone with a good understanding on how products are marketed and markets created will. Especially those who've seen the game industry develop over the last 20+ years.

Much like NVidia is a rat in forcing folks to buy a SLI Certified MB in order to get their hands on the SLI connector. They could sell the SLI connector with the graphics cards but don't as forcing people to buy a SLI Cert MB increases the sales of their chipsets over their rivals. NIce marketing idea, and great for their company. Good for the consumer? Not a bit. But many fall for it... And of course MB manufacturers love it too as they get to charge a hefty premium without offering much more. You really think that SLI connector is worth $50? Not on your life.

Dual Cores are here to stay, more cores are coming. Frankly, what the hell else is my CPU going to be doing in a graphics intensive game other than calculating physics and math? Not much....

CPUs are very capable of making 'physics' calculations. My CPU doesn't even break a sweat with any of the current games out there, it's got plenty of room for any added calcs that might need to be thrown at it.

This is not near the same thing as when 3D accelerator cards were introduced as someone else has suggested. There was already a market for those cards, it just wasn't in games at the time. There wasn't near as much 'huh? what the heck is this? and why?' as there is now. This is more like reintroducing something that was made obsolete when the intel 486 hit the market. Ever hear of a math coproccessor? They used to be seperate chips in old computers specifially to calculate tough equations. CPUS long ago became more than efficient enough to do these calculations.
April 22, 2006 3:50:08 PM

think of it like gfx and sound today, scaleable. from low quality to high quality, so even if u buy the ones from first gen, future games that will ultilize it will lets say allow u to turn down the quality of physics? taking a look at the ghost recon trailer on the official site should be some indication. since this is a dedicated card, expect all physics calculations to be handled by it, at first it might not seem like a big deal, but from things like how debris in an explosion falls(fps games) to how grass and trees move in the wind(elder scrolls: oblivion lets say), that is a lot of stuff that gets transfered over from the cpu, dont know about the gfx card. more dedicated solutions hav always been better then 2 or 1 really powerful multi purpose solutions
April 22, 2006 11:41:29 PM

Quote:
think of it like gfx and sound today, scaleable. from low quality to high quality, so even if u buy the ones from first gen, future games that will ultilize it will lets say allow u to turn down the quality of physics?

Actually, I see this as a threat. There is a reason why more and more game companies don't like to produce games for PCs anymore. There are simply too many different computer configurations to consider when a game is designed. This is much more work than producing the same product for a game console. The addition of yet another scalable element in game design will worsen this problem considerably. We might get a working physics chip that is generally accepted for gaming - for next generation consoles.
April 23, 2006 1:36:15 AM

so is this card gunna give objects a visual weight? like in the 3rd video with the rolling sphere, the cross structure appears to not only fall but bend a sway under its own weight?
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