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Budget Dual Core Build, 805D vs Opty 170

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April 24, 2006 5:40:43 AM

not exactly a fair price comparison but what you guys think, 805D intel OC'd pretty good vs the 165/170 Opty. CPU prices arent even close although the mobo might be a tad cheaper for the AMD. What kinda performance should I expect if I go intel? No flame wars please. I bought a truck recently and have other big ticket items to purchase too. I dont wanna spend to much $$$ here. I could use a nice CHEAP but good OCing mobo for the intel though. not sure what to use. Ive been so hug up on an opty but I dont think i need that much power. Im thinkin the intel will be strong enough and cheaper too.

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April 24, 2006 5:50:19 AM

The 805 really is hard to get away from. It's just so cheap, and by all reports I've ever seen, it OCs pretty well. Think about it this way; you can get an 805 and a pretty serious board for less than you can get a 165 alone for. Here's a recent review of the 805, including comparisons to the 165 at stock clocking. It's outperformed by a goodly margin, but the price/performance ratio is still far in the 805's advantage. OCing'll primarily lower the percentage difference, which is something you should take into account (that is, OCing both chips).
April 24, 2006 6:22:21 AM

Quote:
Im thinkin the intel will be strong enough and cheaper too.

If price is a factor, you'd have to be barking mad to buy the Opteron. Just think of what the missus will say when she reads your credit card bill, and consider where you'll be sleeping for the next week.

You could always just save up.
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April 24, 2006 8:14:16 AM

It might be helpfull to know. what you want to do with this setup.
All the same, even the 820, with a 200/800 fsb shows major signs of being memory starved. I think those benches are rather deceptive, well except the ones that show the 805 one step up from a celeron.
There is a reason they are so cheap. It's because thier performance is crummy.
April 24, 2006 11:37:38 AM

As wusy pointed out, an overclocked 805D will run hot, use a lot of power and require a solid cooling system along with a strong PSU if you want to use it for more than an hour at a time.

An Optie 165 or X2 will be less of an headache, especially for 24/7 operation.
April 24, 2006 6:24:30 PM

I did fail to mention that I want it quiet. It'll be in an Antec P180 case. NOt sure of cooling just yet, might start with stock HSF but would like to go to a nice <$50 air cooling system. Power isnt as big of a concern because bout 1/2 the time I wont be paying for the power it uses...

I thought someone had linked me to the holly grail of articles but ive read that one pointed out. Its useless for this. it does not Show OC results. The 805 performes far better when OC'd hard. It does use alot of juice and put out some heat though, I do realize that...

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April 24, 2006 6:40:03 PM

I have a D805 and i can't say a bad word about it! For the price it is a fantastic processor, and it is a very good overclocker. I'm sure i could push mine to 3.8 on stock cooling, but my overclocking skills aren't all that :-P

QuantumSheep
April 24, 2006 6:50:43 PM

well, instead of the opty/pD debate why not an x2/pD? Sid pointed out that an opty or x2 will do better for heat etc... and if you get the x2, it is cheaper than opty. an x2 3800 is under 3 bills and still can be oc'd if you desire. A friend of mine has his running @ 2.8 w/ water cooling. (just an example of what it could do)

w/ the 3800 you get better cost than the opty and lower heat than the pD. Just a thought.

also, while that p180 is a good case, if you want quiet try the sonattaII. VERY quiet and smaller than the p180, and comes w/ antec power for just under $100 on newegg! Unless you want the bigger case that is... or want more power but it takes more $...
April 24, 2006 7:16:23 PM

Please where do you get your info from??????
I have had 2 805s so i can tell you first hand on an ecs 410l board and 350w psu. i got the 2.66 to 3.35ghz idles at 32°c and full loads at 47°c with stock hsf and as5. with the stock thermal pad it was only 2-4° difference

So the 805 does not run hot its a damn good overclocker. Of course like in everything else you want more you need to spend more.

HideOut on a budget 805 hands down but option open.

As far as a motherboard any board will be fine that has the basic oc features cpu volt will be a great help. from what i know and seen on all 945 chipsets limit it around 4ghz for stable 805's.

Today I just orderd a 975 board for the rig in my sig and to be ready for a conroe upgrade maybe it could be possible for you to if your looking at an opty w mobo $460 vs an 805 w "975" mobo $370 so you can oc for now and wait an see what conroe is all about for any upgrade later just my thoughts......
April 24, 2006 7:43:57 PM

Those temps seem to be suspiciously low, stock Prescotts idle higher than the load temps that you report.

BTW, is that i975 based mobo really Conroe ready ? Conroe will require a different type of voltage regulation modules, got any links about that mobo of yours being Conroe ready ?
April 24, 2006 10:07:01 PM

Or you could just buy a pentium d 940 not overclock and save some cash.
April 24, 2006 10:28:55 PM

temps are about the same on 2 different boards, actually ecs board ran hotter (due to ati onboard video) overall then the asus.

Any link that has conroe test have them done on the intel badaxe the newer version.

I also understand that Gigabytes GA-G1975X will need a new ISL6556vrm and bios flash to work
April 24, 2006 10:43:09 PM

Ive been thinking about building an 805D based system myself the price cannot be beat ! I may just build one when it becomes more clear what mobo's will work with Conroe (that way I can build my system enjoy it and then realy upgrade it !!!)
April 24, 2006 10:58:10 PM

Quote:
Or you could just buy a pentium d 940 not overclock and save some cash.


How exacty does that save cash?
Really i would like no. :) 
April 24, 2006 11:03:49 PM

Yes, what will this be used for?

Do you NEED dual cores. You could look at the Opty 144 or 146 route and just OC those, even mildly with stock cooling.
April 24, 2006 11:07:50 PM

This may come in useful,

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1020827

Save ya some dough if you do want an opteron, although they are just OEM

Just hope you don't get an 0607 stepping (they are not good overclockers). I ordered last tuesday evening and got an CCBBE 0610 (pretty good stepping).

Coupons were updated late last week.

edit: I got a 165
April 25, 2006 1:00:05 AM

Actually i have gotton 3.9ghz on my 805. only pushed it to 3.35 on an my ecs motherboard.You may not be aware but I guess i could let you know ecs motherboards are not known as an overclockers board by any stretch. And if you cant trust speedfan and coolbits or my Raytek ST20XB then well i should be on fire soon

so this w805+$50HSF=3.4Ghz=X2 @~2.8Ghz would be incorrect. also would not be correct either going by this here some encoding here or so much for the$50 hsf here
some more ocing here
Another great thread you might have to wait till they put it back up herelook for stock hsf temps


many more threads and such but do your own research you’ll feel better
April 25, 2006 1:39:52 AM

you might be right that 3.7 might not be possible w/stock hsf but from what i have seen and read its atainable. so 3.4 is EASY and those are the facts no need for another hsf. so your previous statement "805+$50HSF=3.4Ghz=X2 @~2.8Ghz " is busted.and that is according to Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman.
another ocing link here. Its indonesian but the graphs do the talking.
April 25, 2006 4:19:52 AM

Quote:
I did fail to mention that I want it quiet.


Then you want the Opteron. Not even a question.
April 25, 2006 6:30:41 AM

3.7ghz is only attainable on a few chips, mostly the average o/c on stock cooling for a D805 is around 3.4-3.6, i overclocked mine to 3.6 last night and it ran stable for a few hours of stressful use, then crashed. I believe with the Zalman cooler i have ordered for ~$50 will make it easy for me to reach 3.8...Hopefully :twisted:
April 25, 2006 6:53:30 AM

I have an old Northwood 2.4@3.4 its hard to see why a newer CPU on a better process would not be able to hit higher Mhz ? I must be tired lol
April 25, 2006 7:04:37 AM

Is that a northwoodC? I'd rather have one of those, than an 805.
On an Intel setup, fsb speed is everything. If <200 bottleknecks a single core, just think of what it does to a dual core.
April 25, 2006 6:19:38 PM

One reason is that there are 2 cores on 1 die, therefore twice as much heat is being produced ( i think, i'm probably wrong though...), so therefore the overclocking potential won't be as high.

I'm probably totally wrong about this...
April 25, 2006 9:20:56 PM

So if i went 805D what would be a good overclockin mobo and hsf for it for the money? On the X2 vs Opty debate, the few extra bucks for the opty are well worth it. Usually higher overall MHZ + 1MB L2 cache per core vs the cheaper X2's..

Hide
April 26, 2006 2:34:10 AM

but $52 isnt a budget cooler and the Premium isnt a budget board...
April 26, 2006 2:48:44 AM

Id have to say the Opteron 170. Heard many, many, great things about the overclock ability with those. Not to mention AMD Dual cores just blew Intel's out of the water IMO.
April 26, 2006 3:05:00 AM

But dude, seriously your missing the BUDGET part of this :D 

Actually, Newegg has the ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED on sale.

Whats the cheapest decent set of DDR2 I can OC with? I dont need to OC the RAM for sure, maybe memory ratios will do it. Im on a budget here remember. I now found a 26 foot cabin crusier I want too :D 

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April 26, 2006 11:35:49 AM

Ummm, you don't want to use DDR2 with an Opteron, as it's not compatible.
April 26, 2006 11:43:19 AM

Besides DDR is cheaper and easyer to maintain. And why go for a bad performing DDR2 when you can get a Good performing DDR
April 26, 2006 4:51:42 PM

The DDR2 isn t for the opty, it is for the 805D, DDR performs on par due to its superior timings but when overclocked the DDR2 can do ok, due to its higher overall FSB. The GOOD DDR of 2.2.2.5 is soooo pricy. I have a few GB of it on my current A64's and XPs but it is about time to make the jump, just want to make it cheap. The overall performance difference is only a few % and for the money, that doesnt fit in the budget. My last build was a wildly OC'd machine and I used the good 2.2.2.5 stuff (patriot). I just need a decent bang for the buck for DDR2 recomendation, but I guess asking a bunch of fanboys who mostly cant afford what they tout doesnt do much good. I make good money, but I dont see the point in blowing $3K on a build. it'll still be outdated in <1year.

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April 26, 2006 5:19:49 PM

Quote:
but I guess asking a bunch of fanboys who mostly cant afford what they tout doesnt do much good. I make good money, but I dont see the point in blowing $3K on a build. it'll still be outdated in <1year.

hide


What exactly are you implying with this statement?
April 27, 2006 12:13:23 AM

That tower is soooo huge though wusy

By that statement I mean alot of the people that post here say "just do this, its only $20000000 but worth it" and their mom's bought them the dell but they deam with your/my money.

Hide
April 27, 2006 3:55:26 AM

but i pick up my PC and move it several times a week, over time that might just not be so nice for the mobo and such..
April 27, 2006 5:50:39 AM

The p5wd2-e is not cheap I suggest the asus p5pdl2 .Depending on your case (i got a thermaltake xaser v) 3.6ghz could be possible on stock hsf (recommend changing to thermal compound) .


I just picked up a thermaltake big typhoon, I hear its good .
April 27, 2006 7:15:59 AM

Opterons are and have been retail or oem...
This past Dec I bought thru newegg a oem Opteron 175 for $459 delivered, and the retail one was $505
April 27, 2006 1:46:19 PM

man, he was talking about the stress on the pcb of the mobo... not whether or not he could pick it up. To be honest that is a big issue as video cards, heatsinks and whatever get bigger/heavier today... almost makes you want to build systems w/ the mobo laying flat instead of atx standard in its side.

plus, if I have a choice of a boat anchor of a server or a nice sff machine for a lan I'll give you 3 guesses (and the first 2 don't count) on which type of system I would build knowing that it will be moved alot... lan's or otherwise. and that ain't 'cause i'm weak (i'm built like Arnol Schwartzenagger) it's just 'cause I have common sense for practicality.




oh, and i lied about the arnold thing... 8O


...he's a bit smaller than me. :lol: 
April 27, 2006 5:37:30 PM

Quote:
man, he was talking about the stress on the pcb of the mobo... not whether or not he could pick it up. To be honest that is a big issue as video cards, heatsinks and whatever get bigger/heavier today... almost makes you want to build systems w/ the mobo laying flat instead of atx standard in its side.

plus, if I have a choice of a boat anchor of a server or a nice sff machine for a lan I'll give you 3 guesses (and the first 2 don't count) on which type of system I would build knowing that it will be moved alot... lan's or otherwise. and that ain't 'cause i'm weak (i'm built like Arnol Schwartzenagger) it's just 'cause I have common sense for practicality.




oh, and i lied about the arnold thing... 8O


...he's a bit smaller than me. :lol: 


Thanks GOD someone understood what I meant by weight...wow...

I have a nice server to carry around too, and i rarely do any more. Seem as though when I bring 5TB of data no one seems to thank me for the $5000 machine ive provided them to leech, er I mean serve games from so I dont bother any more. I MIGHT go to a LAN this weekend actually. Smaller one, only about 200 people. I like those much better than the 2000 people lans. I would love to go to dreamhack just once though.

Hide
April 27, 2006 5:45:43 PM

ya, I like smaller ones too. even under 100 is nice as you tend to know most of the ppl there... much more fun.

and ya, stress on a pcb bothers me even w/ my 1900xt in there as the sink on it (stock) is heay and I may get a card holder to help... perhaps out of paranoia but still...
April 27, 2006 10:45:32 PM

Anoobis = 800 lb gorilla = Heavy server, NP.

May 5, 2006 1:57:03 AM

well despite my best judgement, I went Opty 170 with Retail HSF for now on the DFI expert.

P180 Antec, Enermax PSU, 2 GB of Patriot 2.3.2.5, X1900XT (check out newegg's return/refurbs, I got it for 380!), 3 x 250 Samsung HDD sata 2s (OS x 1, RAID 1 x 2 drives), DVD burner, etc...

Hide
May 5, 2006 2:58:47 AM

Quote:
well despite my best judgement, I went Opty 170 with Retail HSF for now on the DFI expert.

P180 Antec, Enermax PSU, 2 GB of Patriot 2.3.2.5, X1900XT (check out newegg's return/refurbs, I got it for 380!), 3 x 250 Samsung HDD sata 2s (OS x 1, RAID 1 x 2 drives), DVD burner, etc...

Hide


Looks good to me :)  that PSU how are the temps ? reason I ask is I just installed a new 400 watt and its loud and hot... I would like one that is one or the other heheheh
May 6, 2006 6:28:23 AM

Well had newegg not screwed up and shipped all the order late (the video card came from cali to KY in 2 days but the rest of the entire order is late, gonna be monday...IDIOTS) after paying for 2 day shipping and rush processing id have it gether, however its not so I have no clue what its gonna be like. The PSU is a nice very very quiet model though, here it is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

Sounds like a damned good bang for the buck..

Hide
May 6, 2006 7:17:07 AM

I have always been a fan of Antec's products the cases are good and so are the PSU's :)  I am thinking about ordering this one but its like 2X more expensive then the one you are getting (depending on what you say about it when it arives I probably will change my mind) I mean its half the price :) 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
May 6, 2006 8:12:37 AM

Quote:
Only a fool reads the temperature from mobo.


Anyone here ever drill a hole in the HSFs base and put a cartridge-style thermocouple in the hole? If you knew the dimensions and location of your processor, you could get the sensor reasonably close to the edge of it and get a better measurement than the tuck method many people use.
May 6, 2006 3:48:22 PM

Quote:
Another method overclockers.com recently used is by drilling the IHS instead.
http://www.overclockers.com/articles1312/


Yea, I saw that, but I'm not so sure it's a good idea. You're giving up a significant percentage of your IHS to HS contact surface. Back before the first gulf war (when defense research dollars were easy to get in the US) our group worked on some heat transfer projects for the air force that involved aluminum nitride and other more common materials. At one point, we intentionally made the contact surfaces slightly non-flat - like off by about 10 microns over a 1x1cm contact surface. You could easily measure the difference. We also embedded thermocouples into transfer surfaces and although it worked fine as a research method, the heat trasnfer would drop by about 5% for that same 1x1cm contact surface. but if we drilled down into the HS material subsurface from the side, we wouldn't lose much heat transfer. You need a good drill press in order to get near the contact surface or the temperature response is slow.

Something I found on an OC website, (can't remember which one...) where a guy popped the IHs off, drilled a hole through it, put the thermocouple up against the edge of the chip then glued it all back together. I don't need accurate CPU temps bad enough to risk killing the processor and don't trust that I can pop the top off and get it back together alive.
May 6, 2006 4:24:35 PM

the 805 was a no-brainer in my price budget. i overclocked it for a day to 3.4 easily and stable under all stress tests.

just don't think using all that juice is necessary so its stock now.

my chip and asus p5nd2-sli were $100 cheaper than the 165 chip alone
!