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What is the best overall AGP video card for P4 2400Mhz CPU ?

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April 26, 2006 11:59:30 AM

Hello,

I am thinking of upgrading my video card.

Could you please recommend what is the best AGP video card for overall gaming performance, taking in to account the factors below:

I am not planning to overclock.
I will play most games at 1280 x 1024, as I am using 19" LCD.
I usually play the latest games.

My system is:

P4 2400MHz
1GB dual channel DDRRAM
Gigabyte GA8IPE1000G M/B (AGP 8x)

Thank you very much.
April 26, 2006 12:33:11 PM

The best AGP card is the 7800. There's no way to play the latest games at the highest resolutions with the best options without the newest PCI-E cards. However, the 7800 is still a pretty kickass GPU.

The limiting factor after buying a 7800 would be the CPU, however rather than upgrading the CPU you'd probably be better off with a new CPU, mobo and PCI-E graphics card.
April 26, 2006 12:45:11 PM

nah, get the 6800GS... the 7800GS is not a direct cross from PCI-E (less tmus or something like that)... not enuf performance increase to justify the diff in cost...
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April 26, 2006 12:47:04 PM

The card that would make sense for your aging system would be a 6800 or 6800xt. They play BF2 just fine on medium and they are getting very, very cheap. Dont spend anymore than that on an old system.
Im running a P4 2.4 @400mhz w/1gb ram and a 6800 and it plays BF2 just fine.
April 26, 2006 12:56:50 PM

Yup... What everyone else said. The 7800GS is the best card right now for AGP systems - but still pricey at $280-$310.
If money is not an option and you are not planning on getting a whole new systems in the next 2-3 years - get it. Otherwise I'd agree that you should go for a 6800 and you'll be happy with the return.

I have the 7800GS and love it.
April 26, 2006 1:22:14 PM

What do you think of ATI X800xt and other X800 series ?

As a cheaper alternative I was thinking about getting Radeon 9800xt for around $100, do you think it's worth it, or it's better to get one of the more expensive cards ?
April 26, 2006 1:52:59 PM

(My work mainframes are being slow, so I have time to post!)

While the 9600xt is not a bad card, it should really be defined as "not a bad card - for it's time". I think it depends on what your going from, how much you want to invest, and primaraly how long you plan to keep the AGP system. If you plan to keep it for a while and can adapt/deal with not having a PCI-E setup, the more expensive cards - i.e. more advance/better - are the way to go.

I've seen benchmarks that put the 7800GS and the X850XT PE neck and neck. Some the 7800 wins, some it does. It has SM3.0-the 850 doesn't. One thing I've noticed from dealing with both nvidia and ati, is that nvidia cards OC MUCH better than ATI. Mayeb it's just me...?

For the cheaper price the x8xx series is a comparable alternative. Just don't tell anyone I said that. nVidia supporters are crazy and will beat me down like a ragdoll. (I think we spend too much time in front of the computer)
April 26, 2006 1:57:15 PM

I like the Ati's myself but will recomend the 6800's also. I have a X800pro for one computer and a X850XTPE for the other, both run at 1280x1024 res happily.

I think the X850XT would make a good choice for a gaming machine, even with a 2.4GHz CPU. Games are more graphics bound than CPU.
April 26, 2006 2:02:52 PM

Quote:
Yup... What everyone else said. The 7800GS is the best card right now for AGP systems - but still pricey at $280-$310.
If money is not an option and you are not planning on getting a whole new systems in the next 2-3 years - get it. Otherwise I'd agree that you should go for a 6800 and you'll be happy with the return.

I have the 7800GS and love it.


You can also get an X850XT from newegg for $164.00 and that card will perform neck and neck with the 7800gs and actually beat it in games like oblivion due to the heavy shaders.

The only thing it is missing is SM3 support but there are not any games out at the momment that require you to have that. SM2b is what the X850XT has.
April 26, 2006 2:13:33 PM

Quote:
Hello,

I am thinking of upgrading my video card.

Could you please recommend what is the best AGP video card for overall gaming performance, taking in to account the factors below:

I am not planning to overclock.
I will play most games at 1280 x 1024, as I am using 19" LCD.
I usually play the latest games.

My system is:

P4 2400MHz
1GB dual channel DDRRAM
Gigabyte GA8IPE1000G M/B (AGP 8x)

Thank you very much.


The 7800 is the best card available, but as mentioned above, the cost is near 300 dollars for an AGP card...

I recently got a X800GTO. It's a great card that is a little faster than the 6800GS before you overclock it...

I have a AMD SEmpron 3100+ and 1280 MBS ram and its all on a crappy Compaq.

With my X800GTO, even before I overclocked it and unlocked the extra pipes, I was playing Half Life 2 at near full, FEAR at medium settings, OBLIVION at very decent settings, above medium, Sims 2 perfect, etc etc... albeit all that 1024X768...

So I would reccomend this card unless money isn't an issue... but if it is, I bought the card for under 200 US...
April 26, 2006 2:42:34 PM

Quote:
You can also get an X850XT from newegg for $164.00


Where did you see an AGP X850XT for $164. It wasn't on newegg.


At theGamer: The X800GTO would be a decent choice if you can't locate an X800XL, which was selling for a price similar to the X800GTOs a week or two ago (in AGP). Just understand that the 6800GS for the AGP bus offers nowhere near the performance of the 6800GS in PCI-express. In AGP, it is essentially an overclocked vanilla 6800. There is potential for unlocking pipes and overclocking, but you said you don't plan to overclock so I'd stay away from the 6800GS.
April 27, 2006 1:23:55 AM

Anyone heard anything about X800PRO ?

Looks like it's very good value for money.
a b U Graphics card
a b à CPUs
April 27, 2006 2:10:21 AM

I think what he's asking is if he gets a uber card would it be limited by the cpu and if so then what card is in the right range for it?

Im thinking 6800/x800? and also depends on budget.

Quote:
Hello,

I am thinking of upgrading my video card.

Could you please recommend what is the best AGP video card for overall gaming performance, taking in to account the factors below:

I am not planning to overclock.
I will play most games at 1280 x 1024, as I am using 19" LCD.
I usually play the latest games.

My system is:

P4 2400MHz
1GB dual channel DDRRAM
Gigabyte GA8IPE1000G M/B (AGP 8x)

Thank you very much.
April 27, 2006 3:03:56 AM

Quote:
Anyone heard anything about X800PRO ?

Looks like it's very good value for money.


Good card, it was the first of the X800's. I still recomend the X850XT for high resolution gaming without overclocking the card. The X800pro just holds back a little from my experience with the two of them.

X800pro & X800xt review
a b U Graphics card
April 27, 2006 4:13:37 AM

OK, while normally I would not recommend a $300 AGP card for a rig like yours, one key point people seem to be missing is your native 1280x1024 resolution. To run the latest games at that high a resolution you are going to want a more powerful card like the 7800GS or X850XT.

BUT, and a big but at that, is the fact in many games you will not be able to turn up the detail levels anywhere near max on a P4 2.4GHz CPU. Because of your CPU alone you will have to dumb down details(not resolution) some, so the perfect match would be a card that is as cheap as possible that can handle 12x10 at whatever details your cpu can handle. A higher end card wouldn't hurt as say your cpu requires you to set medium settings in a game. Even if the X800GTO or 6800GS could handle 12x10 medium, the 7800GS/X850XT would have power to spare. Now the CPU may keep higher detils from being an option, but this reserve power the higher end cards may have at those settings could allow enabling GPU intensive eye candy like FSAA to be turned on.


Anyway, just something to think about. It's impossible that the same card would be that perfect match in every game so I'd side with a better card so you don't have to reduce details too low or drop out of native resolution. But a P4 2.4 is definatley not fully up to the task in many of the latest games.

For example, way back I did weeks worth of cpu scaling tests of the old NFS Underground 2 with a mobile XP2500+ from 800MHz up to 2.6GHz, and at 5 resolutions, low /med/high/max details, and on a few different video cards. It showed that a Barton 2500+(1.83GHz) was about the cut-off to where you could no longer run max details in that game even with a X800XTpe. On a slower cpu, It didn't matter what the resolution was, 640x480 max details on a slower cpu scored the same as 1280x1024 max details; showing it was totally cpu bound. Now that's an older game even, so no doubt the minimum cpu needed to handle max details would be even higher in todays games.
April 27, 2006 12:49:11 PM

Do you think AGP cards eventually will get cheaper compared to PCI-E, or they just get more expensive ?
April 27, 2006 1:27:28 PM

Cheaper.... eventually. Also harder to find.
I suppose that's a question for another thread. "The Legacy Of AGP!!"
=)
April 27, 2006 1:29:13 PM

AGP cards are cheaper but mainly because they use outdated chips. AGP is obsolete as ISA or floppy discs, it's not really worth anyone's time other than people upgrading old systems for cheap.
April 27, 2006 3:19:03 PM

Quote:
AGP is obsolete as ISA or floppy discs, it's not really worth anyone's time other than people upgrading old systems for cheap.


Wow. That's a bold opinion. I'd have to disagree that AGP is obsolete, and in the same class as ISA and floppys. It may not be worth the gamers time who gets the best new thing all the time, but they're a fraction of the computer system owners in the world.

AGP was standard. AGP is still standard, and we are still in the middle of the transition; so be it the end of the middle...maybe 7 out of 10? I'm overthinking this, aren't I? I guess I keep thinking not in terms of what I would buy as a gamer/designer, but as a business. Businesses don't care about how many pipes your card has (unless it's a graphic based company - yes there are exceptions). They care about cost, dependability, upgradeability, and integration. Being arround sinse 1997 helps AGP win over PCI-E right now I think.

...or, I could be wrong and just not ready to let go of my precious AGP yet.
:( 
April 27, 2006 3:46:15 PM

If a business doesn't care about graphics they go for an integrated solution, however (as you said, we're in a transition) more of these are switching to PCI-E. What I meant was that before long AGP will be on the same list as ISA and Floppy drives. It's certainly on it's last legs, as the current generation of graphics chips will be the last to support it.
a b U Graphics card
April 27, 2006 4:10:12 PM

Quote:
Do you think AGP cards eventually will get cheaper compared to PCI-E, or they just get more expensive ?

Nope, I don't think they will get cheaper. By the time higher end AGP card prices drop, they will be old and outdated compared to the current PCI-e or whatever.
April 27, 2006 4:22:15 PM

I happen to know for a fact that Newegg will be acquiring a BRAND NEW, STILL SHRINK-WRAPPED Gecube AGP Radeon X800XL.

I know this because I'm the one who returned it. It was meant for my current machine, but due to unforseen "complications", I had to return it and pursue an alternative. I bought the card for $179.00.

In fact, according to the UPS tracking number, the package is out to be delivered to Newegg today.

An excellent card, but I have no idea how soon they'll list it.
April 27, 2006 4:31:41 PM

I would recomend based on your upgrade schedule and needs. If your going to hold on to this machine for a long time, like over a year, want to play the newest games as they come out.. However if you don't by games the second they roll out and need the max eye candy sm 3.0 brings or just plan on a upgrading an x850 is hard to beat for agp. If your an ATI fan and want newer features and want to stick with ATI and get SM 3.0 on the AGP bus There is a Radeon X1600pro with 512mb of ram. A saphire retail box model can be had for around a 150 USD or you can get the retail ATI for 192.00 there is a 50.00 rebate. The X1600 isn,t the frame roller the 7800gs is but your frontside bus and cpu will not be able to push it hard enough to matter anyway. Also the 512mb of video ram on the X1600pro will ofload alot of traffic from the bus and stop slamming main memory for textures. All this for half the 7800 price. Not to mention if you would sell your rig later it is more marketable. The X1600pro 512mb is the logical choice here. The HIS model is a great overclocker for only 30.00 more. With any PCI-E to AGP card Nvidia or ATI I recomend putting a heatsink on the bridge chip as it works wonders.

Pricewatch

Saphire

HIS monster
April 27, 2006 11:41:34 PM

My current setup lets me play BF2 at 1024x768 with high settings.
I love the 7800GS.
April 28, 2006 1:31:21 AM

I've just looked at the 2006 Toms Hardware benchmarks to find x1600pro and was really amazed.
The x1600pro is seating at the very end, and 7800GS, which I thought before was one of the top cards, doesn't even make to the middle of the charts.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&m...

I am seriously thinking of getting whole new system now, but I don't think I'll be able to afford a decent one.

As for x1600pro, do you think that x800xt or similar will perform the same as x1600pro, because of my 2.4GHz cpu bottleneck ?

Also does anyone know if newegg.com sends overseas ? Cause I am in Sydney, Australia.
a b U Graphics card
a b à CPUs
April 28, 2006 9:49:30 AM

HMMMZZZZ pci geforce fx series video card anyone? round my way there twice the price of the agp versions! i think more expensive.

Last time i waited for a product to get cheaper it disopeared but not before getting more expensive! P4c 2400, instead i got a 2600 that overclocks like madmodmikes brain (thats bad, its already random as it is).

Quote:
Cheaper.... eventually. Also harder to find.
I suppose that's a question for another thread. "The Legacy Of AGP!!"
=)
April 28, 2006 10:23:56 AM

that's way too expensive for me,

I am looking for something between $170 - $300 AUD
a b U Graphics card
a b à CPUs
April 28, 2006 10:27:48 AM

get a list of cards you can get and we'll see (like ~5 that are $300 and below) and see what they think.

and yeah im in Australia too - Brisbane!

Quote:
that's way too expensive for me,

I am looking for something between $170 - $300 AUD
April 28, 2006 10:53:15 AM

Gamedude - GeCube 9800XT 128meg TV and DVI Video Card MODEL $ 299

http://www.scorptec.com.au/index.php?catid=35&subid=60

Pity our prices arn't closer to the American prices. By the time you imported anything, I don't know if there would be much difference in price.

Hard to find a good card for those prices, maybe ebay?
April 28, 2006 11:40:34 AM

Actually PCIE cars are cheaper. Not sure where some of you get your information.
Secondly, dont spend that money on that system. You can get a 256mb 6800xt for $74 after rebate.
April 28, 2006 11:45:47 AM

Yeah PCI-E are cheaper.

But prices are higher in Australia for the same cards than in America.
April 28, 2006 2:53:28 PM

Quote:
I've just looked at the 2006 Toms Hardware benchmarks to find x1600pro and was really amazed.
The x1600pro is seating at the very end, and 7800GS, which I thought before was one of the top cards, doesn't even make to the middle of the charts.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&m...

I am seriously thinking of getting whole new system now, but I don't think I'll be able to afford a decent one.

As for x1600pro, do you think that x800xt or similar will perform the same as x1600pro, because of my 2.4GHz cpu bottleneck ?

Also does anyone know if newegg.com sends overseas ? Cause I am in Sydney, Australia.


The GS is sitting at 1178 and is the top AGP solution on your posted chart.
April 28, 2006 5:10:52 PM

Quote:
The GS is sitting at 1178 and is the top AGP solution on your posted chart.


Indeed: the 7800GS in that comparison is only beaten by a few of the fastest PCI-Express cards and SLI systems. Hardly a low performer.

Quote:
Do you think AGP cards eventually will get cheaper compared to PCI-E, or they just get more expensive ?


More expensive relative to PCI-Express cards. It's a captive market and you also have to cover the cost of a bridge chip.
a b U Graphics card
a b à CPUs
April 28, 2006 11:05:20 PM

A 6600GT would be a better choice then the 9800 :( 

Quote:
Gamedude - GeCube 9800XT 128meg TV and DVI Video Card MODEL $ 299

http://www.scorptec.com.au/index.php?catid=35&subid=60

Pity our prices arn't closer to the American prices. By the time you imported anything, I don't know if there would be much difference in price.

Hard to find a good card for those prices, maybe ebay?
April 29, 2006 11:29:46 AM

Do you think there will be a much difference in game performance between these two systems ? :

s478 P4 2.4GHz
1GB DDR
$200-$300 AGP8x video card

vs

LGA775 P4 3 GHz
1GB DDR2
$200-$300 PCI-E video card
a b U Graphics card
April 29, 2006 12:52:06 PM

P4 2.4GHz & 7800GS vs. P4 3.0GHz & X1800XT or 7900GTX

Sure...a huge difference. But personally if you are going to upgrade everything I would go with an A64 if it's for gaming. If that is a P4C (800 bus) then the memory is PC3200, so you can still use it on an A64. If it's a P4B (533bus) then it may be slower PC2100 mem and you'd want to replace it in an A64 build.
April 29, 2006 1:25:15 PM

Quote:
A 6600GT would be a better choice then the 9800 :( 

Yeah you're right, getting harder to find a good card in this price range. 6600GT or X1600pro(maybe), either would be fine.
AGP users are fast becoming the forgotten :( 
April 29, 2006 2:05:17 PM

did you ever have any problems with AMD CPUs ?
a b U Graphics card
April 29, 2006 2:17:12 PM

Nope. Closest problem would be chipset related back with Via KT133 TBird systems.

I was a huge Intel fan back in the 440BX and i865pe times, but the A64's are so impressive and well priced I wouldn't think to build Intel now unless a customer insists.
April 29, 2006 2:24:43 PM

Thank you very much for your advice, I've never tried AMD before because of overheating problems, poor reliability reputation and cause it's harder to sale,
but new 64 series definitely worth a look at these prices.
a b U Graphics card
April 29, 2006 3:16:11 PM

You will not have heat issues with an A64. They run cool and with the stock retail fan are very quiet.
a b U Graphics card
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2006 12:06:04 AM

currently there are more issues with Intel's then AMDs (eg cooling, board compatibility bs, etc).

Quote:
did you ever have any problems with AMD CPUs ?
May 1, 2006 12:54:16 AM

I just recently got an X800 GTO for my system with a P4@2.4 ghz and 1280mb ram. Everything is awsome! I would reccomend the card to anyone with an old agp pc.
May 1, 2006 2:40:45 AM

Quote:
I would reccomend the card to anyone who wants old AGP graphics


Fixed.
a b U Graphics card
a b à CPUs
May 2, 2006 12:52:07 AM

i had a 6600GT with a P4@3000 and 1gb of ram and it ran things sweet till it died - anything and upward would be great.

Quote:
I just recently got an X800 GTO for my system with a P4@2.4 ghz and 1280mb ram. Everything is awsome! I would reccomend the card to anyone with an old agp pc.
!