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tech student back again with question regarding boot seque..

Last response: in Windows 95/98/ME
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Anonymous
April 28, 2005 7:20:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Is there are difference in the boot sequence for the 9x operating systems. I
have just completed Intro to operating Systems textbook and in doing practice
exams came across some different informaion from different souces. Some seem
to think the correct boot sequence is
1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) command.com 4)config.sys
5)autoexec.bat .

Others seem to think it is
1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) config.sys 4)command.com
5)autoexec.bat .
which is correct?
Anonymous
April 28, 2005 10:28:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Command.com must be loaded to process any batch file, Autoexec.bat included.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rgharper@gmail.com
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
* My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"YvonneM" <YvonneM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FE10CC1A-FCC2-4FEE-9D6C-A4CC4030D2CB@microsoft.com...
> Is there are difference in the boot sequence for the 9x operating systems.
> I
> have just completed Intro to operating Systems textbook and in doing
> practice
> exams came across some different informaion from different souces. Some
> seem
> to think the correct boot sequence is
> 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) command.com 4)config.sys
> 5)autoexec.bat .
>
> Others seem to think it is
> 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) config.sys 4)command.com
> 5)autoexec.bat .
> which is correct?
>
>
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:00:34 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

The second is correct.....config.sys before command.com
io.sys loads config.sys if it exists (config.sys loads specified device drivers),
then io.sys loads command.com

You will find plenty on the subject on this page:
http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/startup.htm
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.ms...


"YvonneM" <YvonneM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FE10CC1A-FCC2-4FEE-9D6C-A4CC4030D2CB@microsoft.com...
> Is there are difference in the boot sequence for the 9x operating systems. I
> have just completed Intro to operating Systems textbook and in doing practice
> exams came across some different informaion from different souces. Some seem
> to think the correct boot sequence is
> 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) command.com 4)config.sys
> 5)autoexec.bat .
>
> Others seem to think it is
> 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) config.sys 4)command.com
> 5)autoexec.bat .
> which is correct?
>
>
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:04:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

But why do other sources state the oposite? I just completed an on-line quiz
that did ask a question aboutt he boot sewuence . Thier answer showed
config.sys loading before command.com. I got it wrong.

"glee" wrote:

> The second is correct.....config.sys before command.com
> io.sys loads config.sys if it exists (config.sys loads specified device drivers),
> then io.sys loads command.com
>
> You will find plenty on the subject on this page:
> http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/startup.htm
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.ms...
>
>
> "YvonneM" <YvonneM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:FE10CC1A-FCC2-4FEE-9D6C-A4CC4030D2CB@microsoft.com...
> > Is there are difference in the boot sequence for the 9x operating systems. I
> > have just completed Intro to operating Systems textbook and in doing practice
> > exams came across some different informaion from different souces. Some seem
> > to think the correct boot sequence is
> > 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) command.com 4)config.sys
> > 5)autoexec.bat .
> >
> > Others seem to think it is
> > 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) config.sys 4)command.com
> > 5)autoexec.bat .
> > which is correct?
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:26:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Sorry, I meant to ask why do other sources, including the following
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w9p9744.... say that
command.com loads first. Is this specific to windows 95? I think this is
important informaiton for a rech student.

"YvonneM" wrote:

> But why do other sources state the oposite? I just completed an on-line quiz
> that did ask a question aboutt he boot sewuence . Thier answer showed
> config.sys loading before command.com. I got it wrong.
>
> "glee" wrote:
>
> > The second is correct.....config.sys before command.com
> > io.sys loads config.sys if it exists (config.sys loads specified device drivers),
> > then io.sys loads command.com
> >
> > You will find plenty on the subject on this page:
> > http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/startup.htm
> > --
> > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.ms...
> >
> >
> > "YvonneM" <YvonneM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:FE10CC1A-FCC2-4FEE-9D6C-A4CC4030D2CB@microsoft.com...
> > > Is there are difference in the boot sequence for the 9x operating systems. I
> > > have just completed Intro to operating Systems textbook and in doing practice
> > > exams came across some different informaion from different souces. Some seem
> > > to think the correct boot sequence is
> > > 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) command.com 4)config.sys
> > > 5)autoexec.bat .
> > >
> > > Others seem to think it is
> > > 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) config.sys 4)command.com
> > > 5)autoexec.bat .
> > > which is correct?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 2:24:47 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

That article does *not* state that command.com is loaded before config.sys, that I
can see. Please point out where you see this. The only reference I see is the
line:
"The next step in Windows 95's boot sequence is to load COMMAND.COM, CONFIG.SYS, and
AUTOEXEC.BAT"
which does not specify that as the *order* in which they are loaded.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.ms...


"YvonneM" <YvonneM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0154A907-D318-40C0-A9ED-52EFB34AA07A@microsoft.com...
> Sorry, I meant to ask why do other sources, including the following
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w9p9744.... say that
> command.com loads first. Is this specific to windows 95? I think this is
> important informaiton for a rech student.
>
> "YvonneM" wrote:
>
> > But why do other sources state the oposite? I just completed an on-line quiz
> > that did ask a question aboutt he boot sewuence . Thier answer showed
> > config.sys loading before command.com. I got it wrong.
> >
> > "glee" wrote:
> >
> > > The second is correct.....config.sys before command.com
> > > io.sys loads config.sys if it exists (config.sys loads specified device
drivers),
> > > then io.sys loads command.com
> > >
> > > You will find plenty on the subject on this page:
> > > http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/startup.htm
> > > --
> > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.ms...
> > >
> > >
> > > "YvonneM" <YvonneM@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > news:FE10CC1A-FCC2-4FEE-9D6C-A4CC4030D2CB@microsoft.com...
> > > > Is there are difference in the boot sequence for the 9x operating systems. I
> > > > have just completed Intro to operating Systems textbook and in doing
practice
> > > > exams came across some different informaion from different souces. Some seem
> > > > to think the correct boot sequence is
> > > > 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) command.com 4)config.sys
> > > > 5)autoexec.bat .
> > > >
> > > > Others seem to think it is
> > > > 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) config.sys 4)command.com
> > > > 5)autoexec.bat .
> > > > which is correct?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 5:31:17 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:20:04 -0700, "YvonneM"

>Is there are difference in the boot sequence for the 9x operating systems.

Yes; WinME is profoundly different.

See http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/startup.htm

>I have just completed Intro to operating Systems textbook and in doing
>practice exams came across some different informaion from different souces.
>Some seem to think the correct boot sequence is

>1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) command.com 4)config.sys
>5)autoexec.bat .

False. Config.sys is processed by IO.SYS before Command.com

>Others seem to think it is
>1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) config.sys 4)command.com
>5)autoexec.bat .
>which is correct?

The latter is less incorrect. The full story (for Win95/98)...

1) Hardware phase

PSU checks voltages, issues PowerGood signal if OK
CPU is allowed to run, starts BIOS POST
BIOS POST checks hardware, polls bootable drives

2) HD system phase

BIOS runs Master Boot Record of booted HD
MBR can do anything, but is expected to...

3) HD OS pre-filesystem phase

....chain into the first sector of the active partition
If Win9x, this looks for C:\IO.SYS and file system is started

4) IO.SYS phase

IO.SYS displays "Starting Microsoft Windows..." text
IO.SYS assigns drive letters to drives presented by BIOS
IO.SYS looks for and processes C:\WINBOOT.INI (usually missing)
IO.SYS looks for and processes C:\MSDOS.SYS if above missing
IO.SYS derives OS path and what to do next; defaults follow...
IO.SYS checks for F5 and F8 keypress, ?show menu
IO.SYS displays splash screen
IO.SYS may load C:\D??SPACE.BIN
IO.SYS looks for and processes C:\D??SPACE.INI
IO.SYS shows menu if last attempt to load Windows fails
IO.SYS processes C:\CONFIG.SYS, checks DOS=SINGLE etc.
If GUI is to be loaded, IO.SYS looks for C:\AUTOEXEC.*
If AUTOEXEC.BAT found, Command.com loaded to process it
Splash screen is hidden while AUTOEXEC.BAT is processed
If no AUTOEXEC.BAT, runs AUTOEXEC.COM
If no AUTOEXEC.COM, runs AUTOEXEC.EXE
If none of these, skips and starts %WinDir%\Win.com

5) WIN.COM phase

Win.com checks file system flags, runs Scandisk if indicated
Win.com starts LFN support
Win.com processes %WinDir%\WINSTART.BAT if exists
Win.com starts the GUI, networking, etc.

6) Windows system phase

Device drivers load. PnP discovery of drives, letters assigned
You may see "...is not found..." text displayed here
%WinDir%\Wininit.ini is sought, processed by Wininit.exe if found
You may see "Please wait while..." text displayed here
%WinDir%\SYSTEM.INI processed, shell= processed to start shell
You may see "...is not found..." text displayed here
Desktop displayed
%WinDir%\WIN.INI run= and load= processed
HKLM...Runxxx keys processed
AllUsers...StartUp processed (Win98+)
Desktop icons appear?
Tasks at-startup items processed
Winlogon processed

7) Windows user phase

HKCU...Runxxx processed
User's StartUp processed
Tasks on-login items processed

The above is over-simplified, e.g. doesn't take into account .APP,
..WOS, .W40, .DOS etc. processing for the launching of or return from
DOS mode sessions, "previous version of MS-DOS" etc.

WinME is different, from IO.SYS onwards:
- IO.SYS contains many of the normally loose code files
- Config.sys is not processed
- there are no DOS=SINGLE, BootBUI=0, Previous MS-DOS options
- only SET, PROMPT and PATH are processed in AUTOEXEC.BAT
- WINSTART.BAT is not processed in any meningful way
- DOS mode Scandisk is not run from Win.com
- Wininit.exe imposes independent SR functionality
- SR itself is only started later, as an HKLM...Run item
- automatic Scandisk only starts after GUI begins

HTH



>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 10:41:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:26:04 -0700, "YvonneM"

>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w9p9744....

Not a great article, I'm afraid. You get that impression when it
refers to Windows 95 running on top of DOS; it doesn't.

# The 32-bit IO.SYS is really a combination of DOS's IO.SYS,
# MSDOS.SYS, CONFIG.SYS, and AUTOEXEC.BAT files.

That's incorrect. IO.SYS contains the code that used to be in
MS-DOS's MSDOS.SYS, yes. It does not contain Config.sys or
Autoexec.bat, however; these files still exist.

# The new IO.SYS contains all the instructions the operating system
# needs to initially interact with your hardware.

This is true, in that it contains the old MSDOS.SYS code, as long as
you are considering a subset of hardware that BIOS understands.
There's no inbuilt support for mouse or CD drives, for example.

# IO.SYS also loads some default CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT
# commands, and it controls much of the remaining boot sequence.

There's been a steady progression there, where inbuilt default
settings are concerned. For example, MS-DOS 3.3 would default to No
Path and a C> prompt, so that users would typically stipulate the
common Prompt $p$g and Path C:\DOS statements in the startup files.
By the time MS-DOS 6.xx rolled around, these were built-in defaults,
along with an ill-advised Set Temp=C:\DOS

Win95 extends this by loading several code files automatically, such
as HiMem.sys, IFSHlp.sys, SetVer.exe etc. but these are still subject
to Config.sys and Autoexec.bat overrides. A DOS=NoAuto setting in
Config.sys suppresses these automatic loads altogether.

# As you probably know, Windows 95 can run without a CONFIG.SYS
# or an AUTOEXEC.BAT file.

Big deal, so can MS-DOS. These files have never been "needed" to run
the OS; they are configuration files that control how the OS runs, but
it will run without them. That has not changed.

The difference is that Win95 *is* the OS, whereas Win3.yuk was just
another program that could be run from DOS. So you needed certain
settings to be in place to run Win3.yuk on DOS, just as such settings
may have been needed for other DOS applications.

# Even though you can't edit the IO.SYS file, you can use your
# CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files to override these commands.

There's no need to "edit IO.SYS" when DOS=NoAuto turns off all the
autoloads anyway. Some settings, such as Path, are controlled from
Winboot.ini or MSDOS.sys

# For example, IO.SYS automatically sets your file handles to a
# maximum of 60. If you wanted to change this value to 100, you'd
# add to your CONFIG.SYS file the line FILES=100

A better reference might have mentioned Win95's new FILESHIGH syntax,
but this is watered-down dummy stuff - fine as it goes, but liable to
create the wrong impression. For example, the notion that
Autoexec.bat is built into IO.SYS also suggests an explicit
Autoexec.bat is interpreted by IO.SYS, which it is not; Command.com is
required for that, and is loaded if there is an Autoexec.bat to read.

The reference to DOSSTART.BAT is also partial truth, in that no
mention is made of the more powerful option to "Specify a new..." -
but as the text says, that's probably covered in a later installment
:-)

Finally, the section on IO.SYS's built-in settings may be a bit
misleading. It may be that WinDir is hard-coded as C:\WINDOWS within
IO.SYS - I seem to recall seeing that when editing it as part of the
WinME DOS mode retro-fit - but normally this is not expressed, as
C:\Winboot.ini or C:\MSDOS.sys [paths] will override this.



>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 4:21:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Thank you all for answering my questions, I'm not sure if I am any clearer, I
guess for the purpose of my exam I need to know what is in my text book. I
hoped to understand it a little better, beyond the information provided in my
book.With so much information available, providing different veiwpoints, the
best thing I can do is just watch and learn for myself.

"YvonneM" wrote:

> Is there are difference in the boot sequence for the 9x operating systems. I
> have just completed Intro to operating Systems textbook and in doing practice
> exams came across some different informaion from different souces. Some seem
> to think the correct boot sequence is
> 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) command.com 4)config.sys
> 5)autoexec.bat .
>
> Others seem to think it is
> 1) io.sys 2)msdos.sys 3) config.sys 4)command.com
> 5)autoexec.bat .
> which is correct?
>
>
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 3:45:41 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Mon, 2 May 2005 12:21:03 -0700, "YvonneM"

>Thank you all for answering my questions, I'm not sure if I am any clearer, I
>guess for the purpose of my exam I need to know what is in my text book. I
>hoped to understand it a little better, beyond the information provided in my
>book.With so much information available, providing different veiwpoints, the
>best thing I can do is just watch and learn for myself.

This is where Alex was great - he'd cut past the verbage and TEST
stuff. From the posts I was reading back in those Win95 days, I
imagined him as a dynamic young pro-IT tech at the top of his game; it
was years later when I met him that I realized he was a retiree with a
career that was born in the "big iron" days. All the more impressive.

Anyway - what I'm saying is; when in doubt, test it out. Put "hello
world" entries in various parts of the startup axis and see what and
when these things run. Something like this:

@Echo Off
:: SaveAs C:\SomePath\Test.bat
Echo This is a .BAT file, and as such won't run from Config.sys,
Echo because IO.SYS doesn't interpret such syntax. Everywhere
Echo else is fair game.
Echo.
Echo Here are name and first 9 command line parameters:
Echo %%0% = "%0"
Echo %%1% = "%1"
Echo %%2% = "%2"
Echo %%3% = "%3"
Echo %%4% = "%4"
Echo %%5% = "%5"
Echo %%6% = "%6"
Echo %%7% = "%7"
Echo %%8% = "%8"
Echo %%9% = "%9"
Echo.
Echo Now to pause this and see if other items run "past" it:
Pause
Echo OK, pause over, will end now

Use that with maeninful parms, e.g...

C:\SomePath\Test.bat "This is from HKLM...Run"

....etc. and see what's what :-)

Play carefuly, maintain your Undo trail !





>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Gone to bloggery: http://cquirke.blogspot.com
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
!