When did it become standard that they have to have built in Video that is mostly USELESS?!
I mean seriously! I'm sure mine are the only kids that want to play World of Warcraft or Battlefield 1942 or even Sacerd or any of these modern games require Direct3D, DirectDraw, Directx9/10 capable video boards and mostly what I am seeing is junk thrown in just in case someone wants to use the video to play tetris or minesweeper or use excel or a good colorful powerpoint presentation.
So here is my topic/question Doesn't ANYBODY sell a decent MOBO that I can slap a bunch of RAM on and have the built in video be good enough to keep the gamers in the house happy without me having to get a second mortgage to buy a barebones and then add all the RAM and THEN add a pricey new Video board which has GOTTA be more video than I really need?! I DON'T really care if their video gameplay is a smooth as silk!
Look at the progression here. I have an Atari circa 1982 that still runs like it did when it was new - why? - because no HEAT issues. Now we got refreigerators on our CPU's and fans on our Video boards and for what? So we can enjoy 2 year lifespans on our overheating equipment so Doom can play smoother and faster? Am I the only on thinks this is nuts?
I don't want to overclock and fry my computers I want computers than run SILENTLY! without FANS! That maybe last 10 years because they have NO MOVING PARTS and should last that long!!
This is a conspiracy to make us accept that this is the way it should be. t's not. We should upgrade because we want faster and be able to donate our old computers for poor people to use for years after we are done using them for years. Think of it as buying a hybrid car.. Sooner or later sanity must prevail! Turbo hemi supercharged monster trucks are great on TV but not to drive to work in every day...
My two cents. Any great deals on capable MOBO complete with Direct3D semi-current built in video is very much aprpeciated THANKS!
An ATi 482 or Geforce 6100/6150 chipset board should be OK for basic gaming.
The fact of the matter though is that most mobos with integrated gfx are designed for corporate desktops where 2D is all that they really need.
An ATi 482 or Geforce 6100/6150 chipset board should be OK for basic gaming.
The fact of the matter though is that most mobos with integrated gfx are designed for corporate desktops where 2D is all that they really need.
I went with this MSI RS482M4-ILD Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
It's built-in Radeon 200 something-or-other video Aquamarks at 10,200 when I divert 256 meg of the 2 gig I slapped on it to video leaving just 1700 meg of RAM for the CPU. This was on a new AMD 3700 rig which is I might add very solid. Anyone thinking upgrade can go with this Mobo with confidence that all you would "Require" to do basic 3D gaming like World of Warcraft is ram and a cpu like the AMD 3700. You have the option to slap in one of the new faster PCI Express x16 boards like the GEForce 6600 for under a hundred dollars and then it goes up to about 33,000 on Aquamark. For some reason my other older gaming machine with AMD 3000 and AGP GE6600 Aquamarks at over 40,000 not sure why the difference. May need to tweak that a bit to figure out why the diff here (any ideas? expected this to be faster)
Shared memory or not very respectable gameplay beat out the two older Intel P4 2gig machines with the old GeForce 4500 generation AGP boards which only Aquamark qat about 7500 each.
So any thoughts on why AGP might be faster than PCI Express x16 for the same generation video board GEForce 6600?
Very nice, do you also still have your black and white tv with no remote? Maybe a good beta VCR? An old Pinto in your garage?
Computers have advanced faster than any other technology on the planet because of the simple fact that there is demand for it. Gamers do push the envelope to have faster and better graphics but if you are happy with games such as tetris and pacman you don't have to participate...
I have a computer that is 4 years old that can still run most games now (not at the best graphics but good enough).
I think you drove right by the whole point. I never said cutting edge graphics weren't a cool nitch.
I just said that I can still play Diablo just fine on a P233 (yes 233 mhz) with 64meg of ram. We could design machines that Run Ice cold at 1GHZ but insist that everything push the envelope and run HOT.
Not just HOT but, melt and FRY and go buy a new CPU hot if the $1.99 fan ever stop blowing on it for two minutes.
The original Everquest ran smooth as silk on the original Voodoo graphics cards. These "Old Technologies" were all cutting edge just a few years ago. Why we dont all agree to step back from melting and frying our computers and take up ONE of these leaps forward in the form of running cooler instead of faster is a for of mass hysteria to point of just being mass stupidity.
So here is my topic/question Doesn't ANYBODY sell a decent MOBO that I can slap a bunch of RAM on and have the built in video be good enough to keep the gamers in the house happy without me having to get a second mortgage to buy a barebones and then add all the RAM and THEN add a pricey new Video board which has GOTTA be more video than I really need?! I DON'T really care if their video gameplay is a smooth as silk!
If it really pisses you off then send a flame mail to ATI and nVidia since they are the ones who releases "performance integrated video chips".
ATI will be releasing their next integrated GPU based on the X700 (slightly less powerful than the 9800Pro) later this year. nVidia is also releasing a new integrated GPU as well, probably the 7100 IGP.
Nope. Not upset in the least. I was just trying to expose the scam for what it is.
They get everyone to fry their CPU's and Video boards overclocking and encouraging the makers to push the limits as well. ALL of this for what?
So they can render video games to crazy smoooth fast-hi-rez orders of magnitude and get everyone started down this path by including grossly deficient video on their cheap motherboards.
Until people make it a challenge to see who can run the coolest system without fans and make cool blogs and web sites named clever stuff like "Underclockers Haven" and "Coolest Puters Cellar" the scam will continue.
Just know they are manipulating you into doing this and to the long-term spectators many of these overclockers look much like a guy with a hummer and custom rims with a neon bumbper and fuzzy dice hanging in the window and HE thinks he looks cool to somebody I'm sure...
Informative, i am having trouble telling what you are complaining about. nobody is forcing anybody to overclock their stuff. if they overclock their processors they do it at their own risk. it looks like to me that you are still wanting use a 486, because technology is the devil. I don't think that it is a scam these companies are businesses and if they didn't come out with new stuff they would go bankrupt. I don't know where you work or what you do for a living but if your company doesn't have business then they would have to close up shop and you would be out of a job.
if you don't like fast and smooth frame rates then don't buy the hardware. If you want a silent pc they do have passive coolers that you can buy. I have o'clocked my AMD 3200 to 2.18 GHZ witha zalman cpu fan and it runs fine and the fan is pretty quiet for a fan. nobody is making you buy anything you don't want to buy.
Cutting edge graphics are not just a "niche" market, they are the market where gaming is concerned. Pushing the envelope is what led us from those old Atari games like Pong, to games liiike....... EVERQUEST AND DIABLO!
Unfortunatly for us all, Any time graphics and gameplay are improved significantly in a video game it requires more horsepower to run them . Faster hardware requires more juice and that equals more heat. Thats just a given, no one can alter the laws of physics no matter how much we'd like to. If no one bothered to improve the hardware we'd all Still be stuck playing stuff like Pong. In addition, all this shiny new hardware isn't just there to make things look pretty. It also allows us to create games of greater complexity and difficulty. Enemys in games are much smarter and adaptive than they used to be. This leads to a more enjoyable and challenging experience. And it's all possible because these games don't run on Old tech.
If you decide you want to play Fear, Farcry, some new mmorpg, or any resource hungry game on your current pc, turn down the resolution until you get smooth gameplay. It will likely look like the original Everquest or Diablo; ie. not the best by todays standards,,, but it won't cost you a dime in hardware upgrades. If you do that and you still can't play, well then get rid of that old commador 64 in favor of something better.
this is no huge conspiracy, every hobby costs money. If you are in to rock climbing, motocross, or video games, you gotta pay to play.
oh, in answer to your generalization of people who overclock. Not all of us are out to show off, some of us (like me) like to get the most value for our money. In my case,i've got my old socket A machines performing as well or better than some 64 bit procs for alot less expense. My pc's are over 5 years old and are still running strong. To be blunt; you've got no idea what you are talking about.
Hey man, get the mobo I bought... EVGA Micro-ATX with no video built in. It's great, you can even put in two video-cards for SLI. Matter of fact, it has a slot between the two SLI slots for a single-card configuration! YEAH!!
...seriously, dude, if you're that damn cheap stick with the Atari. Don't rain on our parade.
<<wanting use a 486, because technology is the devil.>>
Not at all. In fact I was making some simple points that they should either include a reasonably fast Video in motherboards or none at all. I see some makers are building MOBOs with no video now and applaud that brainstorm.
I feel it was a simple point. A valid point. A reasonable point. how you get to all the weird places you all go with a very simple thread is beyond me. the other point I was making was Yes the overclocking and overheating are a stupid idea. Including Fans in machines without ball bearings which stick with dust in 12 months and fry your overclocked machines is also stupid. Adding refrigerators to machines is similarly stupid. Spending hundreds of dollars to squeeze more out of hardware rather than just buying a Xeon or dual 64 bit processor with the money instead makes no sense to me.
The intelligent path is buy the best equipment you can afford and if anything UNDERCLOCK it so it lasts longer and get a good ball bearing quiet fan for it.
Let me further qualify where I am coming from. I have a family of six with literally nine machines in my house. Why more than one per person is for instance, one on the exercise bike with wall mounted flatscreen etc. Every 6-12 months another machine goes belly up for one reason or other.
They range from 1 Ghz celerons (file server) to 3.0 Ghz intel and AMD 3700 etc. The dead machines usually follow thunderstorms, sometimes is because of dust clogging the fans, other times its just old age.
I unserstand someone who has only one machine feeling compelled to make it into a hobby machine and "do something more" with it. Most of the people play some form of games on their machine and all of them do so fine. The split occurs on the newer games like Elder Scrolls 4 only runs properly on a couple of machines in the house (obviously it is a good benchmark for serious video power) and pretty much all of them run Warcraft or any of the older games perfectly.
I however am confronted with the illogic of keeping all machines up to spec which would be preposterous and with the economies of scale working against me came to realize that underclocking and increasing lifespan on the machines made so much more sense - reducing the frequency of replacements and upgrades and finding that perfect "Built-in" video solution was the path which made so much sense.
I can slap in a $70 MSI mobo and a $90 AMD 3200 CPU at this point and reuse the old 184 pin RAM etc etc and voila with a little tweaking see anywhere from 10k to 13k Aquamark which plays everything even if you may have to go with medium resolution on the real hard core games.
