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Dosstart.bat and Win98

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Anonymous
June 4, 2005 8:17:12 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

OK, I understand why dosstart.bat is used, but really, at this point, isn't
it a bit silly?

I mean, if you just load your DOS mouse and CD drivers in the regular
autoexec.bat, you'll have them available in DOS, so what's the big deal?
Windows ignores it anyway, and memory isn't an issue anymore, so why even
bother with the limitations imposed by using dosstart.bat (which is ONLY
used if your reboot into DOS mode)?

More about : dosstart bat win98

Anonymous
June 4, 2005 8:17:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

It is not only mouse drivers one may want to load in autoexec.bat.

As a simple example you may want to load the device driver for a cdrom in
config.sys and load the CDROM driver mscdex in dosstart.bat. If you load
this in autoexec.bat you will be running in dos capatibility mode with all
your idea devices

--
Jon Hildrum
DTS MVP
Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
www.hildrum.com
"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e7cDqMVaFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> OK, I understand why dosstart.bat is used, but really, at this point,
> isn't
> it a bit silly?
>
> I mean, if you just load your DOS mouse and CD drivers in the regular
> autoexec.bat, you'll have them available in DOS, so what's the big deal?
> Windows ignores it anyway, and memory isn't an issue anymore, so why even
> bother with the limitations imposed by using dosstart.bat (which is ONLY
> used if your reboot into DOS mode)?
>
>
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 11:03:28 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Yeah, actually that's what I've got now (with the autoexec.bat AND the
config.sys files, as you've said (my mistake for forgetting to mention
config.sys).

I just don't see the necessity of (or reason for) using *dosstart.bat* - or
much reason for it, at this point in time. I was hoping someone here
could explain it - or if I'm missing something there. I don't think the
additional memory usage added by having the dos mouse driver and cd driver
in autoexec.bat and config.sys is really all that significant anymore, is
it? Plus you cover ALL your bases this way, UNLIKE having it in
dosstart.bat.

Jon_Hildrum wrote:
> It is not only mouse drivers one may want to load in autoexec.bat.
>
> As a simple example you may want to load the device driver for a cdrom in
> config.sys and load the CDROM driver mscdex in dosstart.bat. If you load
> this in autoexec.bat you will be running in dos capatibility mode with all
> your idea devices
>
> --
> Jon Hildrum
> DTS MVP
> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
> www.hildrum.com
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:e7cDqMVaFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> OK, I understand why dosstart.bat is used, but really, at this point,
>> isn't it a bit silly?
>>
>> I mean, if you just load your DOS mouse and CD drivers in the regular
>> autoexec.bat, you'll have them available in DOS, so what's the big deal?
>> Windows ignores it anyway, and memory isn't an issue anymore, so why even
>> bother with the limitations imposed by using dosstart.bat (which is ONLY
>> used if your reboot into DOS mode)?
Related resources
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 11:16:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Hmmm, maybe I just figured this out....

I can think of one case where it would be (perhaps) needed: IF someone
wants to boot up into DOS mode directly (from a startup menu), and wants as
much lower (DOS) memory available as possible, then the way to do that would
be to NOT load the DOS mouse and CD drivers.

Maybe that's the reason for having dosstart.bat. ???

Bill in Co. wrote:
> Yeah, actually that's what I've got now (with the autoexec.bat AND the
> config.sys files, as you've said (my mistake for forgetting to mention
> config.sys).
>
> I just don't see the necessity of (or reason for) using *dosstart.bat* -
or
> much reason for it, at this point in time. I was hoping someone here
> could explain it - or if I'm missing something there. I don't think
the
> additional memory usage added by having the dos mouse driver and cd driver
> in autoexec.bat and config.sys is really all that significant anymore, is
> it? Plus you cover ALL your bases this way, UNLIKE having handled by
> dosstart.bat.
>
> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>> It is not only mouse drivers one may want to load in autoexec.bat.
>>
>> As a simple example you may want to load the device driver for a cdrom in
>> config.sys and load the CDROM driver mscdex in dosstart.bat. If you load
>> this in autoexec.bat you will be running in dos capatibility mode with
all
>> your idea devices
>>
>> --
>> Jon Hildrum
>> DTS MVP
>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>> www.hildrum.com
>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:e7cDqMVaFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>> OK, I understand why dosstart.bat is used, but really, at this point,
>>> isn't it a bit silly?
>>>
>>> I mean, if you just load your DOS mouse and CD drivers in the regular
>>> autoexec.bat, you'll have them available in DOS, so what's the big deal?
>>> Windows ignores it anyway, and memory isn't an issue anymore, so why
even
>>> bother with the limitations imposed by using dosstart.bat (which is ONLY
>>> used if your reboot into DOS mode)?
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 2:13:46 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:16:04 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Hmmm, maybe I just figured this out....
>
>I can think of one case where it would be (perhaps) needed: IF someone
>wants to boot up into DOS mode directly (from a startup menu), and wants as
>much lower (DOS) memory available as possible, then the way to do that would
>be to NOT load the DOS mouse and CD drivers.
>
>Maybe that's the reason for having dosstart.bat. ???

Hi Bill,

As I understand it Dosstart.bat is created the first time Exit To
Dos is used. It picks up any mouse and CDrom drivers in the
Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files, if any. This could explain why
not all systems have Dosstart.bat.

The file is not always used, it depends on the Properties in the
Advanced section of the Exit To Dos file in the Windows folder.

Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=138996

Regards,

Bill Watt
Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 2:13:47 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Bill Watt wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:16:04 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hmmm, maybe I just figured this out....
>>
>> I can think of one case where it would be (perhaps) needed: IF someone
>> wants to boot up into DOS mode directly (from a startup menu), and wants
>> as much lower (DOS) memory available as possible, then the way to do that
>> would be to NOT load the DOS mouse and CD drivers.
>>
>> Maybe that's the reason for having dosstart.bat. ???
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> As I understand it Dosstart.bat is created the first time Exit To
> Dos is used. It picks up any mouse and CDrom drivers in the
> Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files, if any. This could explain why
> not all systems have Dosstart.bat.
>
> The file is not always used, it depends on the Properties in the
> Advanced section of the Exit To Dos file in the Windows folder.
>
> Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=138996
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Watt
> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/

Thanks, Bill. That's one of the two or three relevant MS articles I had
also run across.

Actually, if you are in Windows, and select Start, Shutdown, Restart in MS
DOS mode, you will also create that dosstart.bat file. It must create the
PIF at that time.

But you know....I think the principal use of dosstart.bat is to allow
maximum memory for DOS programs by ONLY putting those DOS drivers in the
system IF you do the above - not under normal bootup.

IOW, when you first boot up, and assuming those DOS mouse and CD drivers are
NOT specified in your *regular* autoexec and config files, you WILL have max
memory available if you choose to initially bootup (from a startup menu)
directly into DOS.

Good (and maybe needed) for DOS games, I guess.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 4:29:33 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:unxGjRYaFHA.3384@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
> Actually, if you are in Windows, and select Start, Shutdown, Restart in MS
> DOS mode, you will also create that dosstart.bat file. It must create the
> PIF at that time.

No, it does not create a dosstart.bat file simply by restarting in MS-DOS mode if
you don't have DOS drivers listed in your startup files.
BTW, Bill's reference to "Exit To DOS.pif" *is* what is executed when you use the
Restart in MS-DOS Mode option
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 4:29:34 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so that
must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to see what
would happen Sorry.

glee wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:unxGjRYaFHA.3384@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>
>> Actually, if you are in Windows, and select Start, Shutdown, Restart in
MS
>> DOS mode, you will also create that dosstart.bat file. It must create
the
>> PIF at that time.
>
> No, it does not create a dosstart.bat file simply by restarting in MS-DOS
> mode if you don't have DOS drivers listed in your startup files.
> BTW, Bill's reference to "Exit To DOS.pif" *is* what is executed when you
use
> the Restart in MS-DOS Mode option
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 6:24:04 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:09:32 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Bill Watt wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:16:04 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmm, maybe I just figured this out....
>>>
>>> I can think of one case where it would be (perhaps) needed: IF someone
>>> wants to boot up into DOS mode directly (from a startup menu), and wants
>>> as much lower (DOS) memory available as possible, then the way to do that
>>> would be to NOT load the DOS mouse and CD drivers.
>>>
>>> Maybe that's the reason for having dosstart.bat. ???
>>
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> As I understand it Dosstart.bat is created the first time Exit To
>> Dos is used. It picks up any mouse and CDrom drivers in the
>> Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files, if any. This could explain why
>> not all systems have Dosstart.bat.
>>
>> The file is not always used, it depends on the Properties in the
>> Advanced section of the Exit To Dos file in the Windows folder.
>>
>> Description of Restarting Computer in MS-DOS Mode
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=138996
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bill Watt
>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>
>Thanks, Bill. That's one of the two or three relevant MS articles I had
>also run across.
>
>Actually, if you are in Windows, and select Start, Shutdown, Restart in MS
>DOS mode, you will also create that dosstart.bat file. It must create the
>PIF at that time.
>
>But you know....I think the principal use of dosstart.bat is to allow
>maximum memory for DOS programs by ONLY putting those DOS drivers in the
>system IF you do the above - not under normal bootup.
>
>IOW, when you first boot up, and assuming those DOS mouse and CD drivers are
>NOT specified in your *regular* autoexec and config files, you WILL have max
>memory available if you choose to initially bootup (from a startup menu)
>directly into DOS.
>
>Good (and maybe needed) for DOS games, I guess.

I renamed Dosstart.bat, went to Restart in MSDos mode then used EXIT
to get back in Windows and a Dosstart.bat file was not created. I
also tried it by changing the advanced properties in the Exit to Dos
file and still no Dosstart.bat was created. I believe it's only
created the first time Restart in Dos mode is used. And only if
Mouse and CDrom drivers are in the regular Autoexec.bat and
Config.sys files, if present, where it picks up the drivers.

As you say if the Exit To Dos file is missing it can be re-created
by using Restart in Dos mode then going into Windows. However the
Dosstart.bat file is not created if it was also missing.

For Dos programs and games a shortcut can be created for them and
then configuring the shortcut properties just like the Exit To Dos
file can be. There, Himem.sys can be used to put Dos and drivers in
upper memory to maximize conventional memory and make extended
memory available by using the "Specify a new Dos configuration" in
the Advanced section.

As you say, Dosstart.bat can be used instead of Autoexec.bat and
Config.sys to avoid loading the drivers when booting directly into
Dos.

Ah, good old Dos. :-)

Regards,

Bill Watt
Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 6:42:20 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so that
>must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to see what
>would happen.

I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
Dos file is setup.

Regards,

Bill Watt
Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 6:42:21 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Bill Watt wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so
that
>> must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to see what
>> would happen.
>
> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
> Dos file is setup.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill Watt
> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/

OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure enough,
it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows - so maybe that
explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too, and why windows
rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a test. (Keeping in mind
that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers configured in autoexec.bat
and config.sys).

The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 9:55:04 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Bill, You do not want CDROM started in autoexec.bat. It creates a serious
performance penalty when running windows.

Remember, the CDROM drive was just one example of what you may want in a
Dosstart.bat file. There are other items too like potential sound drivers,
stack and file variables etc.

Dosstart.bat was used both when exiting windows to a dos mode and sometimes
when booting to an dos prompt (using F8). At the dos prompt you would type
in dosstart.bat to get the cdrom drive to work and maybe other items.
However, you do not want these items loaded when running windows

--
Jon Hildrum
DTS MVP
Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
www.hildrum.com
"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Bill Watt wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so
> that
>>> must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to see what
>>> would happen.
>>
>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
>> Dos file is setup.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bill Watt
>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>
> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure enough,
> it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows - so maybe
> that
> explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too, and why windows
> rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a test. (Keeping in
> mind
> that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers configured in
> autoexec.bat
> and config.sys).
>
> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
>
>
June 5, 2005 2:40:45 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e7cDqMVaFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> OK, I understand why dosstart.bat is used, but really, at this point,
isn't
> it a bit silly?
>
> I mean, if you just load your DOS mouse and CD drivers in the regular
> autoexec.bat, you'll have them available in DOS, so what's the big deal?
> Windows ignores it anyway, and memory isn't an issue anymore, so why even
> bother with the limitations imposed by using dosstart.bat (which is ONLY
> used if your reboot into DOS mode)?
>
>
one more article:

http://www.pcanswers.co.uk/tutorials/default.asp?articl...
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 4:34:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>
> Bill, You do not want CDROM started in autoexec.bat. It creates a
serious
> performance penalty when running windows.

But how do you know this - for sure? I was under the impression that
windows simply "ignored it" or overwrote it with its own drivers, anyway (as
long as you're in windows). Is that perfomance penalty actually documented
somewhere? I haven't seen that performance penalty explicitly
documented - for that, or a mouse driver, or what have you.

> Remember, the CDROM drive was just one example of what you may want in
> a Dosstart.bat file. There are other items too like potential sound
drivers,
> stack and file variables etc.

Well, I haven't had to put those things in for a long time - good point.
You're bringin back some memories... (BUFFERS= and FILES= and all that -
it's been awhile).

> Dosstart.bat was used both when exiting windows to a dos mode and
sometimes
> when booting to an dos prompt (using F8). At the dos prompt you would type
> in dosstart.bat to get the cdrom drive to work and maybe other items.

But that's a real annoyance - to have to remember to do that.

> However, you do not want these items loaded when running windows

But again - where is it documented that you actually take a performance hit
in windows if you do leave them in there? I didn't see that explicity
mentioned in these articles that have been posted.

See, the last thing you want to be faced with, if you end up being stuck in
DOS mode due to a windows malfunction, is not having your mouse or CD drive
access available, and, AFAIK, the safest way to ensure this, is to keep all
that stuff loaded in the regular autoexec and config files. Providing, of
course, that there is no real penalty to doing so.

> --
> Jon Hildrum
> DTS MVP
> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
> www.hildrum.com
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Bill Watt wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so
that
>>>> must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to see
what
>>>> would happen.
>>>
>>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
>>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
>>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
>>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
>>> Dos file is setup.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bill Watt
>>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>>
>> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure
enough,
>> it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows - so maybe
that
>> explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too, and why
windows
>> rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a test. (Keeping in
mind
>> that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers configured in
>> autoexec.bat and config.sys).
>>
>> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 4:36:00 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Yeah, I saw that one too and it was pretty good - thanks.

philo wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:e7cDqMVaFHA.612@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> OK, I understand why dosstart.bat is used, but really, at this point,
isn't
>> it a bit silly?
>>
>> I mean, if you just load your DOS mouse and CD drivers in the regular
>> autoexec.bat, you'll have them available in DOS, so what's the big deal?
>> Windows ignores it anyway, and memory isn't an issue anymore, so why even
>> bother with the limitations imposed by using dosstart.bat (which is ONLY
>> used if your reboot into DOS mode)?
>>
>>
> one more article:
>
>
http://www.pcanswers.co.uk/tutorials/default.asp?articl...
ypeid=2&subsectionid=607
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 6:12:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Hi Bills,
You are making me dig into areas of my memory that I thought had long ago been
flushed ;-) but IIRC, you will only have a dosstart.bat file if you had real-mode
(read: DOS) drivers of some sort in your autoexec.bat *when Windows was installed*.
Setup will then copy those drivers to dosstart.bat and REM them in your autoexec,
again IIRC.
Some third-party apps (like DOS games) may also create one afterwards. I hope this
helps.....
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.ms...


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Bill Watt wrote:
> > On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> > <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so
> that
> >> must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to see what
> >> would happen.
> >
> > I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
> > files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
> > tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
> > tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
> > Dos file is setup.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Bill Watt
> > Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>
> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure enough,
> it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows - so maybe that
> explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too, and why windows
> rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a test. (Keeping in mind
> that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers configured in autoexec.bat
> and config.sys).
>
> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
>
>
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 6:12:21 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

At this point, I'm just glad it got created, even though I'm doing my best
to avoid using it in the interests of simplicity and "covering all bets"
under ANY condition of bootup, as I mentioned in my response to Jon here.

glee wrote:
> Hi Bills,
> You are making me dig into areas of my memory that I thought had long ago
been
> flushed ;-) but IIRC, you will only have a dosstart.bat file if you had
> real-mode (read: DOS) drivers of some sort in your autoexec.bat *when
Windows
> was installed*. Setup will then copy those drivers to dosstart.bat and REM
> them in your autoexec, again IIRC.
> Some third-party apps (like DOS games) may also create one afterwards. I
> hope this helps.....
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.ms...
>
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Bill Watt wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so
>> that
>>>> must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to see
what
>>>> would happen.
>>>
>>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
>>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
>>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
>>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
>>> Dos file is setup.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bill Watt
>>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>>
>> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure
enough,
>> it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows - so maybe
that
>> explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too, and why
windows
>> rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a test. (Keeping in
mind
>> that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers configured in
autoexec.bat
>> and config.sys).
>>
>> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 10:50:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in autoexec.bat.

Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or performance.
.. You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the real
mode drivers


--
Jon Hildrum
DTS MVP
Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
www.hildrum.com
"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%235S490faFHA.2756@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>
>> Bill, You do not want CDROM started in autoexec.bat. It creates a
> serious
>> performance penalty when running windows.
>
> But how do you know this - for sure? I was under the impression that
> windows simply "ignored it" or overwrote it with its own drivers, anyway
> (as
> long as you're in windows). Is that perfomance penalty actually
> documented
> somewhere? I haven't seen that performance penalty explicitly
> documented - for that, or a mouse driver, or what have you.
>
>> Remember, the CDROM drive was just one example of what you may want in
>> a Dosstart.bat file. There are other items too like potential sound
> drivers,
>> stack and file variables etc.
>
> Well, I haven't had to put those things in for a long time - good point.
> You're bringin back some memories... (BUFFERS= and FILES= and all that -
> it's been awhile).
>
>> Dosstart.bat was used both when exiting windows to a dos mode and
> sometimes
>> when booting to an dos prompt (using F8). At the dos prompt you would
>> type
>> in dosstart.bat to get the cdrom drive to work and maybe other items.
>
> But that's a real annoyance - to have to remember to do that.
>
>> However, you do not want these items loaded when running windows
>
> But again - where is it documented that you actually take a performance
> hit
> in windows if you do leave them in there? I didn't see that explicity
> mentioned in these articles that have been posted.
>
> See, the last thing you want to be faced with, if you end up being stuck
> in
> DOS mode due to a windows malfunction, is not having your mouse or CD
> drive
> access available, and, AFAIK, the safest way to ensure this, is to keep
> all
> that stuff loaded in the regular autoexec and config files. Providing,
> of
> course, that there is no real penalty to doing so.
>
>> --
>> Jon Hildrum
>> DTS MVP
>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>> www.hildrum.com
>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> Bill Watt wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so
> that
>>>>> must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to see
> what
>>>>> would happen.
>>>>
>>>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
>>>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
>>>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
>>>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
>>>> Dos file is setup.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bill Watt
>>>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>>>
>>> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure
> enough,
>>> it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows - so maybe
> that
>>> explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too, and why
> windows
>>> rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a test. (Keeping in
> mind
>>> that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers configured in
>>> autoexec.bat and config.sys).
>>>
>>> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
>
>
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 1:20:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Jon_Hildrum wrote:
> Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in
autoexec.bat.

I'm doing that now.

> Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or
performance.

I have a tab under Hard Disk Controllers for some IDE controllers but
nothing looks suspicious - looks fine there. And certainly no yellow
exclamation points either, for that matter!

> . You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the
> real mode drivers

OK, this part I don't understand. I haven't had any problems or errors
yet, and I've got two hard disks installed (in addition to the DVD/CD
drive).

When I boot up, it shows its loading those dos drivers (mouse and CD), but
then windows comes up just fine, and (evidently) simply overrides them with
its own drivers. Of course, if I drop down into DOS mode, I've got the
mouse and CD access now. So I really haven't had to use dosstart.bat,
but I left it in there, and when the system is rebooted (under shutdown)
into DOS mode, it says the drivers are already loaded (well yeah, I loaded
them initially in the regular autoexec and config), so no problemo.

> --
> Jon Hildrum
> DTS MVP
> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
> www.hildrum.com
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%235S490faFHA.2756@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, You do not want CDROM started in autoexec.bat. It creates a
serious
>>> performance penalty when running windows.
>>
>> But how do you know this - for sure? I was under the impression that
>> windows simply "ignored it" or overwrote it with its own drivers, anyway
>> (as
>> long as you're in windows). Is that perfomance penalty actually
>> documented
>> somewhere? I haven't seen that performance penalty explicitly
>> documented - for that, or a mouse driver, or what have you.
>>
>>> Remember, the CDROM drive was just one example of what you may want in
>>> a Dosstart.bat file. There are other items too like potential sound
drivers,
>>> stack and file variables etc.
>>
>> Well, I haven't had to put those things in for a long time - good point.
>> You're bringin back some memories... (BUFFERS= and FILES= and all
that -
>> it's been awhile).
>>
>>> Dosstart.bat was used both when exiting windows to a dos mode and
sometimes
>>> when booting to an dos prompt (using F8). At the dos prompt you would
>>> type
>>> in dosstart.bat to get the cdrom drive to work and maybe other items.
>>
>> But that's a real annoyance - to have to remember to do that.
>>
>>> However, you do not want these items loaded when running windows
>>
>> But again - where is it documented that you actually take a performance
>> hit
>> in windows if you do leave them in there? I didn't see that explicity
>> mentioned in these articles that have been posted.
>>
>> See, the last thing you want to be faced with, if you end up being stuck
>> in
>> DOS mode due to a windows malfunction, is not having your mouse or CD
>> drive
>> access available, and, AFAIK, the safest way to ensure this, is to keep
>> all
>> that stuff loaded in the regular autoexec and config files. Providing,
>> of
>> course, that there is no real penalty to doing so.
>>
>>> --
>>> Jon Hildrum
>>> DTS MVP
>>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>>> www.hildrum.com
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>> Bill Watt wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so
>>>>>> that must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to
see
>>>>>> what would happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
>>>>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
>>>>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
>>>>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
>>>>> Dos file is setup.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Watt
>>>>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>>>>
>>>> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure
enough,
>>>> it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows - so maybe
that
>>>> explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too, and why
windows
>>>> rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a test. (Keeping in
>>>> mind that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers configured in
>>>> autoexec.bat and config.sys).
>>>>
>>>> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 4:47:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:20:00 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>> Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in
>autoexec.bat.
>
>I'm doing that now.
>
>> Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or
>performance.
>
>I have a tab under Hard Disk Controllers for some IDE controllers but
>nothing looks suspicious - looks fine there. And certainly no yellow
>exclamation points either, for that matter!
>
>> . You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the
>> real mode drivers
>
>OK, this part I don't understand. I haven't had any problems or errors
>yet, and I've got two hard disks installed (in addition to the DVD/CD
>drive).

SNIP

Try Control Panel/System/Performance. Is system at optimal
performance or in Dos Compatibility Mode?

I have always had the mouse and CDrom drivers in Autoexec.bat and
Config.sys and system is never in Dos Compatibility Mode. However,
bad real mode drivers can cause it. I load both drivers in upper
memory.

Regards,

Bill Watt
Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 4:47:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Bill Watt wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:20:00 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>> Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in
autoexec.bat.
>>
>> I'm doing that now.
>>
>>> Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or
performance.
>>
>> I have a tab under Hard Disk Controllers for some IDE controllers but
>> nothing looks suspicious - looks fine there. And certainly no yellow
>> exclamation points either, for that matter!
>>
>>> . You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the
>>> real mode drivers
>>
>> OK, this part I don't understand. I haven't had any problems or errors
>> yet, and I've got two hard disks installed (in addition to the DVD/CD
>> drive).
>
> SNIP
>
> Try Control Panel/System/Performance. Is system at optimal
> performance or in Dos Compatibility Mode?

It says Optimal.
> I have always had the mouse and CDrom drivers in Autoexec.bat and
> Config.sys and system is never in Dos Compatibility Mode. However,
> bad real mode drivers can cause it. I load both drivers in upper
> memory.

Me too. But I thought you would be a proponent of "doing it the right
way", and having dosstart.bat load it, when needed. Otherwise, what's the
point of even having dosstart UNLESS you either need to make a very
specific configuration and/or need MAX conventional memory for running DOS
games (which may mean NOT loading extra drivers, like the CD driver)

At least I sense that is what it is coming down to. But, like you,
apparently, I feel safer keeping that stuff as it is, in the regular
autoexec.bat and config.sys files.

> Regards,
>
> Bill Watt
> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 4:52:10 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Control Panel> System> Performance tab (not Device Manager tab):
Does it say 'configured for optimal performance, or does it say that 'some drives
are in compatibility mode', when you start the computer with the DOS drivers in
autoexec.bat and config.sys?
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:o OlniakaFHA.2984@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
> > Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in
> autoexec.bat.
>
> I'm doing that now.
>
> > Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or
> performance.
>
> I have a tab under Hard Disk Controllers for some IDE controllers but
> nothing looks suspicious - looks fine there. And certainly no yellow
> exclamation points either, for that matter!
>
> > . You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the
> > real mode drivers
>
> OK, this part I don't understand. I haven't had any problems or errors
> yet, and I've got two hard disks installed (in addition to the DVD/CD
> drive).
>
> When I boot up, it shows its loading those dos drivers (mouse and CD), but
> then windows comes up just fine, and (evidently) simply overrides them with
> its own drivers. Of course, if I drop down into DOS mode, I've got the
> mouse and CD access now. So I really haven't had to use dosstart.bat,
> but I left it in there, and when the system is rebooted (under shutdown)
> into DOS mode, it says the drivers are already loaded (well yeah, I loaded
> them initially in the regular autoexec and config), so no problemo.
>
> > --
> > Jon Hildrum
> > DTS MVP
> > Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
> > www.hildrum.com
> > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:%235S490faFHA.2756@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Bill, You do not want CDROM started in autoexec.bat. It creates a
> serious
> >>> performance penalty when running windows.
> >>
> >> But how do you know this - for sure? I was under the impression that
> >> windows simply "ignored it" or overwrote it with its own drivers, anyway
> >> (as
> >> long as you're in windows). Is that perfomance penalty actually
> >> documented
> >> somewhere? I haven't seen that performance penalty explicitly
> >> documented - for that, or a mouse driver, or what have you.
> >>
> >>> Remember, the CDROM drive was just one example of what you may want in
> >>> a Dosstart.bat file. There are other items too like potential sound
> drivers,
> >>> stack and file variables etc.
> >>
> >> Well, I haven't had to put those things in for a long time - good point.
> >> You're bringin back some memories... (BUFFERS= and FILES= and all
> that -
> >> it's been awhile).
> >>
> >>> Dosstart.bat was used both when exiting windows to a dos mode and
> sometimes
> >>> when booting to an dos prompt (using F8). At the dos prompt you would
> >>> type
> >>> in dosstart.bat to get the cdrom drive to work and maybe other items.
> >>
> >> But that's a real annoyance - to have to remember to do that.
> >>
> >>> However, you do not want these items loaded when running windows
> >>
> >> But again - where is it documented that you actually take a performance
> >> hit
> >> in windows if you do leave them in there? I didn't see that explicity
> >> mentioned in these articles that have been posted.
> >>
> >> See, the last thing you want to be faced with, if you end up being stuck
> >> in
> >> DOS mode due to a windows malfunction, is not having your mouse or CD
> >> drive
> >> access available, and, AFAIK, the safest way to ensure this, is to keep
> >> all
> >> that stuff loaded in the regular autoexec and config files. Providing,
> >> of
> >> course, that there is no real penalty to doing so.
> >>
> >>> --
> >>> Jon Hildrum
> >>> DTS MVP
> >>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
> >>> www.hildrum.com
> >>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >>>> Bill Watt wrote:
> >>>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
> >>>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files, so
> >>>>>> that must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it to
> see
> >>>>>> what would happen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
> >>>>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
> >>>>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
> >>>>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
> >>>>> Dos file is setup.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bill Watt
> >>>>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
> >>>>
> >>>> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure
> enough,
> >>>> it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows - so maybe
> that
> >>>> explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too, and why
> windows
> >>>> rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a test. (Keeping in
> >>>> mind that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers configured in
> >>>> autoexec.bat and config.sys).
> >>>>
> >>>> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
>
>
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 4:52:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Says "optimal mode". And that's with everything being loaded thru the
regular autoexec.bat and config.sys files (like the dos mouse and CD
drivers).

I think I lose about 75K of conventional memory by doing so, however (for
those rare times I drop down into DOS mode). Which is no biggie, as long
as I'm not running some memory hungry DOS game, I would guess (and I don't).

I can still remember those days when we tried to tweak out as much memory as
we could get - shooting for that (always elusive), 640K free figure!!

glee wrote:
> Control Panel> System> Performance tab (not Device Manager tab):
> Does it say 'configured for optimal performance, or does it say that 'some
> drives are in compatibility mode', when you start the computer with the
DOS
> drivers in autoexec.bat and config.sys?
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:o OlniakaFHA.2984@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>> Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in
>> autoexec.bat.
>>
>> I'm doing that now.
>>
>>> Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or
>> performance.
>>
>> I have a tab under Hard Disk Controllers for some IDE controllers but
>> nothing looks suspicious - looks fine there. And certainly no yellow
>> exclamation points either, for that matter!
>>
>>> . You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the
>>> real mode drivers
>>
>> OK, this part I don't understand. I haven't had any problems or errors
>> yet, and I've got two hard disks installed (in addition to the DVD/CD
>> drive).
>>
>> When I boot up, it shows its loading those dos drivers (mouse and CD),
but
>> then windows comes up just fine, and (evidently) simply overrides them
with
>> its own drivers. Of course, if I drop down into DOS mode, I've got the
>> mouse and CD access now. So I really haven't had to use dosstart.bat,
>> but I left it in there, and when the system is rebooted (under shutdown)
>> into DOS mode, it says the drivers are already loaded (well yeah, I
loaded
>> them initially in the regular autoexec and config), so no problemo.
>>
>>> --
>>> Jon Hildrum
>>> DTS MVP
>>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>>> www.hildrum.com
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:%235S490faFHA.2756@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill, You do not want CDROM started in autoexec.bat. It creates a
>>>>> serious performance penalty when running windows.
>>>>
>>>> But how do you know this - for sure? I was under the impression
that
>>>> windows simply "ignored it" or overwrote it with its own drivers,
anyway
>>>> (as
>>>> long as you're in windows). Is that perfomance penalty actually
>>>> documented
>>>> somewhere? I haven't seen that performance penalty explicitly
>>>> documented - for that, or a mouse driver, or what have you.
>>>>
>>>>> Remember, the CDROM drive was just one example of what you may want in
>>>>> a Dosstart.bat file. There are other items too like potential sound
>>>>> drivers, stack and file variables etc.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I haven't had to put those things in for a long time - good
point.
>>>> You're bringin back some memories... (BUFFERS= and FILES= and all
>> that -
>>>> it's been awhile).
>>>>
>>>>> Dosstart.bat was used both when exiting windows to a dos mode and
>>>>> sometimes when booting to an dos prompt (using F8). At the dos prompt
you
>>>>> would type
>>>>> in dosstart.bat to get the cdrom drive to work and maybe other items.
>>>>
>>>> But that's a real annoyance - to have to remember to do that.
>>>>
>>>>> However, you do not want these items loaded when running windows
>>>>
>>>> But again - where is it documented that you actually take a performance
>>>> hit
>>>> in windows if you do leave them in there? I didn't see that explicity
>>>> mentioned in these articles that have been posted.
>>>>
>>>> See, the last thing you want to be faced with, if you end up being
stuck
>>>> in
>>>> DOS mode due to a windows malfunction, is not having your mouse or CD
>>>> drive
>>>> access available, and, AFAIK, the safest way to ensure this, is to keep
>>>> all
>>>> that stuff loaded in the regular autoexec and config files.
Providing,
>>>> of
>>>> course, that there is no real penalty to doing so.
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jon Hildrum
>>>>> DTS MVP
>>>>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>>>>> www.hildrum.com
>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Bill Watt wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>>>>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files,
so
>>>>>>>> that must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it
to
>>>>>>>> see what would happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
>>>>>>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
>>>>>>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
>>>>>>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
>>>>>>> Dos file is setup.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Watt
>>>>>>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure
>>>>>> enough, it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled Windows -
so
>>>>>> maybe that explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there too,
>>>>>> and why windows rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a
test.
>>>>>> (Keeping in mind that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers
>>>>>> configured in autoexec.bat and config.sys).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 6:33:49 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e9nu52laFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I can still remember those days when we tried to tweak out as much memory as
> we could get - shooting for that (always elusive), 640K free figure!!

I have 608K free conventional memory at the moment....dunno why I still care. ;-)
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 6:33:50 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

glee wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:e9nu52laFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> I can still remember those days when we tried to tweak out as much memory
as
>> we could get - shooting for that (always elusive), 640K free figure!!
>
> I have 608K free conventional memory at the moment....dunno why I still
care.
> ;-)

If you've got 608K free (which is pretty damn good, as I recall), I don't
think you've got a CD driver loaded!

Not sure about mouse - you probably need and have that one. What else do
you have loaded? I bet not much.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 8:16:51 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Bill,
In that case no problems - just load them in config.sys and autoexec.bat


--
Jon Hildrum
DTS MVP
Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
www.hildrum.com
"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:e9nu52laFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Says "optimal mode". And that's with everything being loaded thru the
> regular autoexec.bat and config.sys files (like the dos mouse and CD
> drivers).
>
> I think I lose about 75K of conventional memory by doing so, however (for
> those rare times I drop down into DOS mode). Which is no biggie, as
> long
> as I'm not running some memory hungry DOS game, I would guess (and I
> don't).
>
> I can still remember those days when we tried to tweak out as much memory
> as
> we could get - shooting for that (always elusive), 640K free figure!!
>
> glee wrote:
>> Control Panel> System> Performance tab (not Device Manager tab):
>> Does it say 'configured for optimal performance, or does it say that
>> 'some
>> drives are in compatibility mode', when you start the computer with the
> DOS
>> drivers in autoexec.bat and config.sys?
>> --
>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
>> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>>
>>
>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:o OlniakaFHA.2984@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>>> Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in
>>> autoexec.bat.
>>>
>>> I'm doing that now.
>>>
>>>> Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or
>>> performance.
>>>
>>> I have a tab under Hard Disk Controllers for some IDE controllers but
>>> nothing looks suspicious - looks fine there. And certainly no yellow
>>> exclamation points either, for that matter!
>>>
>>>> . You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the
>>>> real mode drivers
>>>
>>> OK, this part I don't understand. I haven't had any problems or errors
>>> yet, and I've got two hard disks installed (in addition to the DVD/CD
>>> drive).
>>>
>>> When I boot up, it shows its loading those dos drivers (mouse and CD),
> but
>>> then windows comes up just fine, and (evidently) simply overrides them
> with
>>> its own drivers. Of course, if I drop down into DOS mode, I've got
>>> the
>>> mouse and CD access now. So I really haven't had to use
>>> dosstart.bat,
>>> but I left it in there, and when the system is rebooted (under shutdown)
>>> into DOS mode, it says the drivers are already loaded (well yeah, I
> loaded
>>> them initially in the regular autoexec and config), so no problemo.
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jon Hildrum
>>>> DTS MVP
>>>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>>>> www.hildrum.com
>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:%235S490faFHA.2756@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill, You do not want CDROM started in autoexec.bat. It creates a
>>>>>> serious performance penalty when running windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> But how do you know this - for sure? I was under the impression
> that
>>>>> windows simply "ignored it" or overwrote it with its own drivers,
> anyway
>>>>> (as
>>>>> long as you're in windows). Is that perfomance penalty actually
>>>>> documented
>>>>> somewhere? I haven't seen that performance penalty explicitly
>>>>> documented - for that, or a mouse driver, or what have you.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Remember, the CDROM drive was just one example of what you may want
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a Dosstart.bat file. There are other items too like potential sound
>>>>>> drivers, stack and file variables etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I haven't had to put those things in for a long time - good
> point.
>>>>> You're bringin back some memories... (BUFFERS= and FILES= and all
>>> that -
>>>>> it's been awhile).
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dosstart.bat was used both when exiting windows to a dos mode and
>>>>>> sometimes when booting to an dos prompt (using F8). At the dos prompt
> you
>>>>>> would type
>>>>>> in dosstart.bat to get the cdrom drive to work and maybe other items.
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's a real annoyance - to have to remember to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>>> However, you do not want these items loaded when running windows
>>>>>
>>>>> But again - where is it documented that you actually take a
>>>>> performance
>>>>> hit
>>>>> in windows if you do leave them in there? I didn't see that
>>>>> explicity
>>>>> mentioned in these articles that have been posted.
>>>>>
>>>>> See, the last thing you want to be faced with, if you end up being
> stuck
>>>>> in
>>>>> DOS mode due to a windows malfunction, is not having your mouse or CD
>>>>> drive
>>>>> access available, and, AFAIK, the safest way to ensure this, is to
>>>>> keep
>>>>> all
>>>>> that stuff loaded in the regular autoexec and config files.
> Providing,
>>>>> of
>>>>> course, that there is no real penalty to doing so.
>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jon Hildrum
>>>>>> DTS MVP
>>>>>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>>>>>> www.hildrum.com
>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> Bill Watt wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>>>>>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup files,
> so
>>>>>>>>> that must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it
> to
>>>>>>>>> see what would happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
>>>>>>>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
>>>>>>>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
>>>>>>>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
>>>>>>>> Dos file is setup.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill Watt
>>>>>>>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure
>>>>>>> enough, it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled
>>>>>>> Windows -
> so
>>>>>>> maybe that explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there
>>>>>>> too,
>>>>>>> and why windows rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a
> test.
>>>>>>> (Keeping in mind that I also have and had the mouse and CD drivers
>>>>>>> configured in autoexec.bat and config.sys).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
>
>
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 12:04:32 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Thanks. I was unaware that it could be problematic for some drivers,
though. Why, I'm not sure (maybe windows doesn't override them properly).

Jon_Hildrum wrote:
> Bill,
> In that case no problems - just load them in config.sys and autoexec.bat
>
>
> --
> Jon Hildrum
> DTS MVP
> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
> www.hildrum.com
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:e9nu52laFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> Says "optimal mode". And that's with everything being loaded thru the
>> regular autoexec.bat and config.sys files (like the dos mouse and CD
>> drivers).
>>
>> I think I lose about 75K of conventional memory by doing so, however (for
>> those rare times I drop down into DOS mode). Which is no biggie, as
>> long
>> as I'm not running some memory hungry DOS game, I would guess (and I
>> don't).
>>
>> I can still remember those days when we tried to tweak out as much memory
>> as
>> we could get - shooting for that (always elusive), 640K free figure!!
>>
>> glee wrote:
>>> Control Panel> System> Performance tab (not Device Manager tab):
>>> Does it say 'configured for optimal performance, or does it say that
>>> 'some
>>> drives are in compatibility mode', when you start the computer with the
DOS
>>> drivers in autoexec.bat and config.sys?
>>> --
>>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
>>> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:o OlniakaFHA.2984@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>>>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>>>> Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in
>>>>> autoexec.bat.
>>>>
>>>> I'm doing that now.
>>>>
>>>>> Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or
>>>>> performance.
>>>>
>>>> I have a tab under Hard Disk Controllers for some IDE controllers but
>>>> nothing looks suspicious - looks fine there. And certainly no yellow
>>>> exclamation points either, for that matter!
>>>>
>>>>> . You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the
>>>>> real mode drivers
>>>>
>>>> OK, this part I don't understand. I haven't had any problems or
errors
>>>> yet, and I've got two hard disks installed (in addition to the DVD/CD
>>>> drive).
>>>>
>>>> When I boot up, it shows its loading those dos drivers (mouse and CD),
but
>>>> then windows comes up just fine, and (evidently) simply overrides them
with
>>>> its own drivers. Of course, if I drop down into DOS mode, I've got
>>>> the
>>>> mouse and CD access now. So I really haven't had to use
>>>> dosstart.bat,
>>>> but I left it in there, and when the system is rebooted (under
shutdown)
>>>> into DOS mode, it says the drivers are already loaded (well yeah, I
loaded
>>>> them initially in the regular autoexec and config), so no problemo.
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jon Hildrum
>>>>> DTS MVP
>>>>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>>>>> www.hildrum.com
>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%235S490faFHA.2756@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill, You do not want CDROM started in autoexec.bat. It creates a
>>>>>>> serious performance penalty when running windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But how do you know this - for sure? I was under the impression
that
>>>>>> windows simply "ignored it" or overwrote it with its own drivers,
anyway
>>>>>> (as
>>>>>> long as you're in windows). Is that perfomance penalty actually
>>>>>> documented
>>>>>> somewhere? I haven't seen that performance penalty explicitly
>>>>>> documented - for that, or a mouse driver, or what have you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remember, the CDROM drive was just one example of what you may want
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> a Dosstart.bat file. There are other items too like potential sound
>>>>>>> drivers, stack and file variables etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, I haven't had to put those things in for a long time - good
point.
>>>>>> You're bringin back some memories... (BUFFERS= and FILES= and all
that
>>>>>> - it's been awhile).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dosstart.bat was used both when exiting windows to a dos mode and
>>>>>>> sometimes when booting to an dos prompt (using F8). At the dos
prompt
>>>>>>> you would type
>>>>>>> in dosstart.bat to get the cdrom drive to work and maybe other
items.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that's a real annoyance - to have to remember to do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, you do not want these items loaded when running windows
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But again - where is it documented that you actually take a
>>>>>> performance
>>>>>> hit
>>>>>> in windows if you do leave them in there? I didn't see that
>>>>>> explicity
>>>>>> mentioned in these articles that have been posted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See, the last thing you want to be faced with, if you end up being
stuck
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> DOS mode due to a windows malfunction, is not having your mouse or CD
>>>>>> drive
>>>>>> access available, and, AFAIK, the safest way to ensure this, is to
>>>>>> keep
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> that stuff loaded in the regular autoexec and config files.
Providing,
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> course, that there is no real penalty to doing so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jon Hildrum
>>>>>>> DTS MVP
>>>>>>> Jon_Hildrum@msn.com
>>>>>>> www.hildrum.com
>>>>>>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:o R76kmaaFHA.3280@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>> Bill Watt wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:51:56 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>>>>>>>>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> OK, I had (and have) some dos drivers listed in the startup
files, so
>>>>>>>>>> that must be why it recreated it after I (temporarily) deleted it
to
>>>>>>>>>> see what would happen.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have mouse and CDrom drivers in my Autoexec.bat and config.sys
>>>>>>>>> files too and could not create the Dosstart.bat no matter what I
>>>>>>>>> tried. I also sent that and the Exit to Dos files to the Bin and
>>>>>>>>> tried it different ways. The difference may be the way the Exit to
>>>>>>>>> Dos file is setup.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill Watt
>>>>>>>>> Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, I checked the date stamp on that "Exit to DOS" file, and, sure
>>>>>>>> enough, it looks like it was dated just after I reinstalled
>>>>>>>> Windows -
>> so
>>>>>>>> maybe that explains why I had a basic dosstart.bat file in there
>>>>>>>> too,
>>>>>>>> and why windows rebuilt it for me when I recently deleted it for a
>>>>>>>> test. (Keeping in mind that I also have and had the mouse and CD
>>>>>>>> drivers configured in autoexec.bat and config.sys).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The devil is in the details - geeesh, it's wearing me out.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 2:29:27 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:01:00 -0600, "Bill in Co."
<not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Bill Watt wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:20:00 -0600, "Bill in Co."
>> <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Jon_Hildrum wrote:
>>>> Try loading the CDROM driver in config.sys andf then mscdex in
>autoexec.bat.
>>>
>>> I'm doing that now.
>>>
>>>> Then go to device manager and look under the IDE controllers or
>performance.
>>>
>>> I have a tab under Hard Disk Controllers for some IDE controllers but
>>> nothing looks suspicious - looks fine there. And certainly no yellow
>>> exclamation points either, for that matter!
>>>
>>>> . You may end up running in MS DOS Compatibility mode when loading the
>>>> real mode drivers
>>>
>>> OK, this part I don't understand. I haven't had any problems or errors
>>> yet, and I've got two hard disks installed (in addition to the DVD/CD
>>> drive).
>>
>> SNIP
>>
>> Try Control Panel/System/Performance. Is system at optimal
>> performance or in Dos Compatibility Mode?
>
>It says Optimal.
>> I have always had the mouse and CDrom drivers in Autoexec.bat and
>> Config.sys and system is never in Dos Compatibility Mode. However,
>> bad real mode drivers can cause it. I load both drivers in upper
>> memory.
>
>Me too. But I thought you would be a proponent of "doing it the right
>way", and having dosstart.bat load it, when needed. Otherwise, what's the
>point of even having dosstart UNLESS you either need to make a very
>specific configuration and/or need MAX conventional memory for running DOS
>games (which may mean NOT loading extra drivers, like the CD driver)
>
>At least I sense that is what it is coming down to. But, like you,
>apparently, I feel safer keeping that stuff as it is, in the regular
>autoexec.bat and config.sys files.

Me too, I load quite a bit in the two files. In addition to Mouse
and CDrom drivers and a Path statement.

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE AUTO
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FILES=15
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ANSI.SYS (4k)
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\setver.exe (1k)
SET TZ=EST5EDT (sets my time zone in the Dos environment.)

When in Dos I have bright green text and some keyboard shortcuts by
loading some prompts with Ansi.sys.
Setver is used to make Dos programs think they are running in the
Dos version they were designed for. (Compatibility) :-)

Shutdown / Restart in Dos provides 611k memory free. It bypasses
the autoexec.bat and config.sys files and I don't use this. Instead,
I have my own shortcuts to Dos, one recognizes the presence of
Windows and the other doesn't, depending on what I want to do. They
are quick and entering EXIT returns Windows instantly.
Booting to Command Prompt Only provides 512k free.
My own shortcuts provide 495k.
Anything more than 468k is usually enough for program installs that
use Dos to extract cab files.

This is what works for me, others probably have different
preferences.

Regards,

Bill Watt
Computer Help and Information http://home.ptd.net/~bwatt/
!