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Bypass Win98 for DOS on startup?

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June 27, 2005 5:05:10 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing (of
course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think it's
going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error" screen
with "Windows" in the top program block.

Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows. But
I could get into DOS.

What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via DOS
commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.

I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
(1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
(2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
Zip drive be loaded?
(3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
entire directory, including subfolders and all files?

All help is greatly appreciated.
Ed
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 6:49:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o 9ipGO1eFHA.640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing
(of
> course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
> complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think
it's
> going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error"
screen
> with "Windows" in the top program block.
>
> Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
> locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows.
But
> I could get into DOS.
>
> What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
> the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
DOS
> commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.

That's not the most advisable approach.
>
> I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
> (1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?

Yes. You need to insert a boot floppy,
and the BIOS needs to be set to boot from the A drive.

> (2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
> Zip drive be loaded?

You don't care.

> (3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
> entire directory, including subfolders and all files?
>
No. You need a new hard drive, so get that FIRST,
then use the software that comes with it
to FDISK and FORMAT the drive,
and copy the existing drive contents to the new drive.

> All help is greatly appreciated.
> Ed
>
>
June 27, 2005 7:13:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Hugh:

Thank you for replying. I'm not real good at any of this internal stuff, so
I hope you bear with me.

I'm trying this approach because I have tried adding a second drive to my
computer before and it didn't work. Downloaded all the jumper settings and
instructions, etc., but no go. It's a Compaq with an AMD chip that was
given to me when my first computer went out. I tried adding in the drive
from the first one to move files over, but I could never get the slave drive
to recognize. So I'm loathe to try that now having to move files off TWO
drives onto a third!

Also, the OS is on a Compaq "restore" CD, which fully wipes the drive and
installs Win98, plus a bunch of other junk. So copying the files onto the
new drive wouldn't work - they would be overwritten when I reinstalled the
system. That's why I was hoping to be able to copy them off the drive onto
a Zip or something. But I think that would require booting from the
installed hard drive to get the Iomega drivers, unless a boot disk would
come with that.

This is about all my limited knowledge can come up with, given these
limitations. Is there any hope here?
Ed

"Hugh Candlin" <No@MeansNo.Com> wrote in message
news:o P4ljG2eFHA.2736@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
> "Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:o 9ipGO1eFHA.640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing
> (of
> > course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it
won't
> > complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think
> it's
> > going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error"
> screen
> > with "Windows" in the top program block.
> >
> > Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it
still
> > locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows.
> But
> > I could get into DOS.
> >
> > What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going
through
> > the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
> DOS
> > commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.
>
> That's not the most advisable approach.
> >
> > I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
> > (1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
>
> Yes. You need to insert a boot floppy,
> and the BIOS needs to be set to boot from the A drive.
>
> > (2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port
100-meg
> > Zip drive be loaded?
>
> You don't care.
>
> > (3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer
an
> > entire directory, including subfolders and all files?
> >
> No. You need a new hard drive, so get that FIRST,
> then use the software that comes with it
> to FDISK and FORMAT the drive,
> and copy the existing drive contents to the new drive.
>
> > All help is greatly appreciated.
> > Ed
> >
> >
>
>
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
June 27, 2005 7:28:51 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

>> What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
>> the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
> DOS
>> commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.
>
> That's not the most advisable approach.

Will this work to get "My Documents" and personal data off at least? The
moment a drive gives me any inkling of trouble, an unscheduled backup of
data comes to mind :-/

Are quotes required to handle long file names, etc?
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 1:10:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u1OA4V2eFHA.640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...

> . . . I have tried adding a second drive to my
> computer before and it didn't work. Downloaded all the jumper settings
and
> instructions, etc., but no go. It's a Compaq with an AMD chip that was
> given to me when my first computer went out. I tried adding in the drive
> from the first one to move files over, but I could never get the slave
drive
> to recognize. So I'm loathe to try that now having to move files off TWO
> drives onto a third!
>
> Also, the OS is on a Compaq "restore" CD, which fully wipes the drive and
> installs Win98, plus a bunch of other junk. So copying the files onto the
> new drive wouldn't work - they would be overwritten when I reinstalled the
> system. That's why I was hoping to be able to copy them off the drive
onto
> a Zip or something. But I think that would require booting from the
> installed hard drive to get the Iomega drivers, unless a boot disk would
> come with that.

Your simplest route may be to:
0. Prepare appropriately, cf. below.
1. Instal the new drive as C: and D: i.e. first drive
connected to IDE line 1, partitioned into two drives
(one Primary DOS, the other Extended DOS) formatted.
2. Instal the Compaq Win98 on the new C: from its
floppy and CD.
3. Copy to the new D: urgently needed files from any
other hard drive.
4. #2 means you will need to instal afresh your main
apps, rather than reusing the old Registry. But you
have not been able to confirm that the old Registry
is undamaged.
5. You can figure out later how to connect for copying
any other drives. When you earlier failed to add a
second drive, you probably did something wrong ---
check preparations beforehand e.g. via
http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm or
http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 11:00:57 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Scandisk can identify bad sectors and take them out of use, if they
exist, although it may take a while to find them all. Start the
computer in Command Prompt by tapping the F8 key repeatedly
during bootup, type "scandisk c: /surface" and press "Enter". Also,
most hard drive manufacturers have diagnostic software available
for download.

Maxtor http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/index.htm
Seagate http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/B7a.html
Western Digital http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp

See the following about using your Zip drive in DOS. Please note
that you may have to copy the files to a floppy on the computer you
are using now, since you cannot start Windows on the problem
computer.

http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/zip1p/trblshoot.h...

Ben

"Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:o 9ipGO1eFHA.640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing (of
> course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
> complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think it's
> going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error" screen
> with "Windows" in the top program block.
>
> Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
> locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows. But
> I could get into DOS.
>
> What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
> the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via DOS
> commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.
>
> I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
> (1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
> (2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
> Zip drive be loaded?
> (3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
> entire directory, including subfolders and all files?
>
> All help is greatly appreciated.
> Ed
>
>
June 28, 2005 11:04:48 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Thanks, Ben. I needed to know that stuff, and didn't think there might be
stuff I needed to know. Just found out the power supply for my Zip drive is
out, so now I've time to read before I get that fixed.

I did do a DOS SCANDISK last night, and it gave me "invalid long filename".
I did a Google Groups search for info on this, and have some other things to
try. It might not be a bad sector after all.

I appreciate the boost.
Ed

"Ben Myers" <benjmyers@mindR-E-M-O-V-Espring.com> wrote in message
news:o J5K3C9eFHA.640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
Scandisk can identify bad sectors and take them out of use, if they
exist, although it may take a while to find them all. Start the
computer in Command Prompt by tapping the F8 key repeatedly
during bootup, type "scandisk c: /surface" and press "Enter". Also,
most hard drive manufacturers have diagnostic software available
for download.

Maxtor http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/index.htm
Seagate http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/B7a.html
Western Digital http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp

See the following about using your Zip drive in DOS. Please note
that you may have to copy the files to a floppy on the computer you
are using now, since you cannot start Windows on the problem
computer.

http://www.iomega.com/support/manuals/zip1p/trblshoot.h...

Ben

"Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o 9ipGO1eFHA.640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing
(of
> course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
> complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think
it's
> going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error"
screen
> with "Windows" in the top program block.
>
> Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
> locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows.
But
> I could get into DOS.
>
> What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
> the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
DOS
> commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.
>
> I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
> (1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
> (2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
> Zip drive be loaded?
> (3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
> entire directory, including subfolders and all files?
>
> All help is greatly appreciated.
> Ed
>
>
June 28, 2005 11:14:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Don and Hugh: Thanks for the input and guidance. I'm real leery about
dinking around with the insides of my computer. Back in the days when a
programmable calculator was a "computer", I would sling solder in a radar or
radio with no problem. Now, though, I look inside this box, and it's all
plug and pray! There's no voltages, no waveform checkpoints - just these
mysterious bits of software that all have to talk nice to each other or
nothing works right.

But I did learn to read manuals and follow instructions (*after* frying a
wiring harness because I overlooked Step 1: "Disconnect power"!!). So I
appreciate the info, and will try not to have too many disasters. I did
manage a DOS SCANDISK last night, and got "invalid long filename". I did a
Google Groups search and got lots more info, so I'll see where I wind up
with this.

Ed

"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote in message
news:uAT0Pr9eFHA.3048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
> "Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:u1OA4V2eFHA.640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
> > . . . I have tried adding a second drive to my
> > computer before and it didn't work. Downloaded all the jumper settings
> and
> > instructions, etc., but no go. It's a Compaq with an AMD chip that was
> > given to me when my first computer went out. I tried adding in the
drive
> > from the first one to move files over, but I could never get the slave
> drive
> > to recognize. So I'm loathe to try that now having to move files off
TWO
> > drives onto a third!
> >
> > Also, the OS is on a Compaq "restore" CD, which fully wipes the drive
and
> > installs Win98, plus a bunch of other junk. So copying the files onto
the
> > new drive wouldn't work - they would be overwritten when I reinstalled
the
> > system. That's why I was hoping to be able to copy them off the drive
> onto
> > a Zip or something. But I think that would require booting from the
> > installed hard drive to get the Iomega drivers, unless a boot disk would
> > come with that.
>
> Your simplest route may be to:
> 0. Prepare appropriately, cf. below.
> 1. Instal the new drive as C: and D: i.e. first drive
> connected to IDE line 1, partitioned into two drives
> (one Primary DOS, the other Extended DOS) formatted.
> 2. Instal the Compaq Win98 on the new C: from its
> floppy and CD.
> 3. Copy to the new D: urgently needed files from any
> other hard drive.
> 4. #2 means you will need to instal afresh your main
> apps, rather than reusing the old Registry. But you
> have not been able to confirm that the old Registry
> is undamaged.
> 5. You can figure out later how to connect for copying
> any other drives. When you earlier failed to add a
> second drive, you probably did something wrong ---
> check preparations beforehand e.g. via
> http://aumha.org/win4/a/clean.htm or
> http://home.satx.rr.com/badour/html/w98_restore.html
>
> --
> Don Phillipson
> Carlsbad Springs
> (Ottawa, Canada)
>
>
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 12:27:49 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o 9ipGO1eFHA.640@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I think I've got a bad sector on my hard drive - Win98 started crashing
(of
> course my kids didn't tell me in time!), and then it got to where it won't
> complete loading. It will get all the way to the point where you think
it's
> going to show you the desktop, and then pops up a blue "fatal error"
screen
> with "Windows" in the top program block.
>
> Pressing the "any key" restarts, including the ScanDisk run, but it still
> locks up at the same point. It won't even complete Safe mode Windows.
But
> I could get into DOS.
>
> What I'm hoping to do is start up with a DOS prompt without going through
> the crash and restart scenario. Then, hopefully, I can XCOPY files via
DOS
> commands from the hard drive to a Zip disk, then replace the hard drive.
>
> I guess I've got three questions for anyone kind enough to answer them:
> (1) Can I go straight to the DOS prompt?
> (2) If I do this, will the drivers for the external, parallel port 100-meg
> Zip drive be loaded?
> (3) Assuming all else is good, would XCOPY be the best way to transfer an
> entire directory, including subfolders and all files?
>
> All help is greatly appreciated.
> Ed
>
>

Most cloners and imagers drop the ball if you have bad sectors, and refuse
to copy.

A file level copier, like xcopy, may work. Assuming all the files/folders
copied are not within that bad sector, and are properly readable. Many
suggest this instead of xcopy for these cases:
http://www.xxcopy.com/index.htm

If your PC has a hidden partition where some of the bios may reside or other
critical data, you have to copy this to the new hard drive too. Xcopy and
xxcopy can't do this.

If you're copying a game (kids computer?) directory and its subfolder etc.,
this may not work properly when copying back to the new OS installation.
Or, rather, you may not get what you're expecting.

Parallel connected Zip drive at the real mode dos level? Check with the
Iomega support site.

Press F5 for real mode msdos at the right moment. Else F8, and select same.
You said you could enter DOS anyway. So, why the question?
June 28, 2005 12:27:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Thanks for the info, Lil' Dave. All I want to do is rescue files from My
Documents and folders on the Desktop. I can reinstall all other programs.
Thanks for the XXCOPY heads up. I'll look at that.

This is a Compaq, and the Restore CD does create a partition on the drive,
but the stuff in the partition is only to restore the drive, not run the
computer (from what I understand).

Why the questions? Because I never learned DOS. In fact, I originally went
to Macintosh because I never wanted to deal with a DOS prompt! Due to work,
I was "forced" to work on a PC, which I now enjoy. But I still don't know
DOS. I can get there, and managed to do a SCANDISK last night, but that's
about it. SCANDISK said I've got an invalid long filename, but I don't know
how to find it, or open the log file through DOS to read it, or any other
such stuff. I'm wanting to be very careful - as the rule is in carpentry
and laying carpet: "measure twice, cut once" - because I'm well aware I may
not be able to UNDO some of these "cuts", and won't realize until it's too
late.

Ed

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:o LnszU%23eFHA.2520@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> "Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
<<snip>>

> Most cloners and imagers drop the ball if you have bad sectors, and refuse
> to copy.
>
> A file level copier, like xcopy, may work. Assuming all the files/folders
> copied are not within that bad sector, and are properly readable. Many
> suggest this instead of xcopy for these cases:
> http://www.xxcopy.com/index.htm
>
> If your PC has a hidden partition where some of the bios may reside or
other
> critical data, you have to copy this to the new hard drive too. Xcopy and
> xxcopy can't do this.
>
> If you're copying a game (kids computer?) directory and its subfolder
etc.,
> this may not work properly when copying back to the new OS installation.
> Or, rather, you may not get what you're expecting.
>
> Parallel connected Zip drive at the real mode dos level? Check with the
> Iomega support site.
>
> Press F5 for real mode msdos at the right moment. Else F8, and select
same.
> You said you could enter DOS anyway. So, why the question?
>
>
Anonymous
June 29, 2005 11:16:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:u8byen%23eFHA.3012@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for the info, Lil' Dave. All I want to do is rescue files from My
> Documents and folders on the Desktop. I can reinstall all other programs.
> Thanks for the XXCOPY heads up. I'll look at that.
>
> This is a Compaq, and the Restore CD does create a partition on the drive,
> but the stuff in the partition is only to restore the drive, not run the
> computer (from what I understand).
>
> Why the questions? Because I never learned DOS. In fact, I originally
went
> to Macintosh because I never wanted to deal with a DOS prompt! Due to
work,
> I was "forced" to work on a PC, which I now enjoy. But I still don't know
> DOS. I can get there, and managed to do a SCANDISK last night, but that's
> about it. SCANDISK said I've got an invalid long filename, but I don't
know
> how to find it, or open the log file through DOS to read it, or any other
> such stuff. I'm wanting to be very careful - as the rule is in carpentry
> and laying carpet: "measure twice, cut once" - because I'm well aware I
may
> not be able to UNDO some of these "cuts", and won't realize until it's too
> late.
>
> Ed
>
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:o LnszU%23eFHA.2520@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > "Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> <<snip>>
>
> > Most cloners and imagers drop the ball if you have bad sectors, and
refuse
> > to copy.
> >
> > A file level copier, like xcopy, may work. Assuming all the
files/folders
> > copied are not within that bad sector, and are properly readable. Many
> > suggest this instead of xcopy for these cases:
> > http://www.xxcopy.com/index.htm
> >
> > If your PC has a hidden partition where some of the bios may reside or
> other
> > critical data, you have to copy this to the new hard drive too. Xcopy
and
> > xxcopy can't do this.
> >
> > If you're copying a game (kids computer?) directory and its subfolder
> etc.,
> > this may not work properly when copying back to the new OS installation.
> > Or, rather, you may not get what you're expecting.
> >
> > Parallel connected Zip drive at the real mode dos level? Check with the
> > Iomega support site.
> >
> > Press F5 for real mode msdos at the right moment. Else F8, and select
> same.
> > You said you could enter DOS anyway. So, why the question?
> >
> >
>
>

Do a google search on msdos or dos, you'll get alot of results. A few show
you the basic commands within that environment.
Scandisk, in the real mode dos environment, may be finding a internet
shortcut under the favorites folder. It may exceed 256 characters including
spaces. I've run into that one before. If so, ignore it. Don't try to
copy it either.
June 29, 2005 1:10:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
news:uX74mRKfFHA.1044@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Do a google search on msdos or dos, you'll get alot of results. A few
show
> you the basic commands within that environment.
> Scandisk, in the real mode dos environment, may be finding a internet
> shortcut under the favorites folder. It may exceed 256 characters
including
> spaces. I've run into that one before. If so, ignore it. Don't try to
> copy it either.

Is there a DOS command that will get SCANDISK to show me what it's finding?
It seems to be something that's in the final stages of Windows loading,
because it gets almost there and crashes, even in Safe mode. Then I can
deal with trying to get into whatever is calling for this file and try to
bypass it.

Ed
Anonymous
June 30, 2005 11:24:30 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"Ed" <ed_millis@NO_SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eUITfUMfFHA.2840@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> "Lil' Dave" <spamyourself@virus.net> wrote in message
> news:uX74mRKfFHA.1044@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Do a google search on msdos or dos, you'll get alot of results. A few
> show
> > you the basic commands within that environment.
> > Scandisk, in the real mode dos environment, may be finding a internet
> > shortcut under the favorites folder. It may exceed 256 characters
> including
> > spaces. I've run into that one before. If so, ignore it. Don't try to
> > copy it either.
>
> Is there a DOS command that will get SCANDISK to show me what it's
finding?
> It seems to be something that's in the final stages of Windows loading,
> because it gets almost there and crashes, even in Safe mode. Then I can
> deal with trying to get into whatever is calling for this file and try to
> bypass it.
>
> Ed
>
>

Look in the root directory of C: for scandisk.log file.
!