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What is the downside of upgrading to IE6-SP1?

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Anonymous
July 8, 2005 2:37:05 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 3:04:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

I have seen no "downside" on 98-98se - only improvement.
--
mae

"Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
| Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
| IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
| have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
| deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
|
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 3:04:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

(Except that deleting large number of files quirk, which - for most -
probably wouldn't be a big deal at all.

Not worth preventing upgrading!

mae wrote:
> I have seen no "downside" on 98-98se - only improvement.
> --
> mae
>
> "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
>> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
>> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
>> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
>> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
Related resources
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 3:36:43 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Never had the "delete" problem.
--
mae

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:o OhvgU3gFHA.2852@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
| (Except that deleting large number of files quirk, which - for most -
| probably wouldn't be a big deal at all.
|
| Not worth preventing upgrading!
|
| mae wrote:
| > I have seen no "downside" on 98-98se - only improvement.
| > --
| > mae
| >
| > "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| > news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
| >> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
| >> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
| >> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
| >> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
|
|
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 3:36:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Well, try deleting a *whole bunch of files* (like a directory with
*thousand's* of files in it), and see if you don't get it.

An easy way to test it: make a copy of some directory with thousands of
files in it, and then delete the copy of that directory, and see what
happens.

mae wrote:
> Never had the "delete" problem.
> --
> mae
>
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:o OhvgU3gFHA.2852@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> (Except that deleting large number of files quirk, which - for most -
>> probably wouldn't be a big deal at all.
>>
>> Not worth preventing upgrading!
>>
>> mae wrote:
>>> I have seen no "downside" on 98-98se - only improvement.
>>> --
>>> mae
>>>
>>> "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
>>>> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
>>>> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
>>>> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
>>>> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 4:08:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of Win98
users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.

IE6 SP1 is considered a critical update:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/microsoft.public.wi...

IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows Update.

Make sure you revisit Windows Update after installing IE6 SP1 as there will
be critical updates you will then need.

To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything (including Windows
Updates), your anti-virus application should be disabled and all other
running processes closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
the install.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security

Peabody wrote:
> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 5:50:18 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

> Well, try deleting a *whole bunch of files* (like a directory with
> *thousand's* of files in it), and see if you don't get it.

I get that delete problem. Thankfully I don't often delete large amounts of
files :-).

jkb
July 8, 2005 8:23:06 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

In article <nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06>, waybackKILLSPAM44
@yahoo.com says...
> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
>

Speaking only for myself... I DID have problems upgrading to IE6. Some
of my software titles don't want to work with it. I worked around this
by installing another instance of Win98SE onto another partition and
creating my own "bootloader" to switch from OS to OS. Again, that is
something I did and would only recommend it as a last ditch effort to
have ALL of your software work. What I find rather enjoyable, is that
many said I couldn't do it without a recognized bootloader from some
other kind of OS, such as WinXP or Win2000.

Al
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 12:21:00 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

PA Bear says...

> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very
> small number of Win98 users in earlier versions of IE6
> only. Not a problem now.

Well, in case it should affect me for some reason (my luck
tends to run that way), is there a safe-haven number of
deletes that never did cause a problem for anyone. For
example, would deleting, say, 254 files at a time always
have been safe?

And, is there a MS KB article on this problem?

> IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows
> Update.

But not if downloaded in full and installed offline? Well
that's interesting, and good to know. What I'm probably
going to do is Ghost the C partition right before doing
the upgrade, just as an added precaution.

Do you think it would be good to uninstall Sun Java before,
and reinstall it after? Hopefully that wouldn't be
necessary. Anything else like that?

> To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything
> (including Windows Updates), your anti-virus application
> should be disabled and all other running processes
> closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
> the install.

Nothing running except Explorer and Systray, and of course
IE. I may even turn off KB891711. :-)

And I need to reset Security to Medium so that cookies get
turned on, and turn off Hosts, and clean out TIP and Temp,
and re-enable HTA. Damn, I better write all this down.

Thanks for everybody's comments. I hate to be such a
Luddite on these upgrades, but I've been stung before and am
more than a bit gunshy. I'm still resisting on DirectX 9.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 12:23:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Alley says...

> Speaking only for myself... I DID have problems
> upgrading to IE6. Some of my software titles don't want
> to work with it.

Would you mind telling me what those are? Or what kinds of
programs they are?
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 1:20:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

PA Bear wrote:
> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of Win98
> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
[...]

That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that repeatedly
and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers. You
don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
incorrect thing.

The facts are that All 9x IE6x systems have the large quantity file delete
hang problem period! ..which is a PITA! Whether a person at one time or
cumulatively deletes the proven threshold amount or not - the fact is it will
happen if they reach it.

Rick
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 1:30:00 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Peabody wrote:
> Alley says...
>
> > Speaking only for myself... I DID have problems
> > upgrading to IE6. Some of my software titles don't want
> > to work with it.
>
> Would you mind telling me what those are? Or what kinds of
> programs they are?

Peadbody, you can read about it here:
http://cquirke.mvps.org/bexp1.htm

or somewhat here:
http://www.frankprovo.com/win98ie6filesproblem.htm

Rick
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 6:13:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Inline:

Peabody wrote:
> PA Bear says...
>
>> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very
>> small number of Win98 users in earlier versions of IE6
>> only. Not a problem now.
>
> Well, in case it should affect me for some reason (my luck
> tends to run that way), is there a safe-haven number of
> deletes that never did cause a problem for anyone. For
> example, would deleting, say, 254 files at a time always
> have been safe?
>
> And, is there a MS KB article on this problem?

Not to my knowledge, no. The problem persists for only a very small (yet
quite vocal) number of Win98(SE) users who've installed IE6 SP1. As an
overwhelming majority of Win98(SE) users do /not/ have the problem, it's my
belief that any persisting problems are machine- or installation-specific
and not due to some flaw in IE6 SP1. YMMV, as the Moral Scolds here are
more than happy to tell you.

>> IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows
>> Update.
>
> But not if downloaded in full and installed offline? Well
> that's interesting, and good to know. What I'm probably
> going to do is Ghost the C partition right before doing
> the upgrade, just as an added precaution.

/If/ you choose to keep your previous installation of IE available when
installing via a separate download/offline, IE6 will be uninstallable.

Remember to check in at Windows Update after installing, no matter how you
install it.

> Do you think it would be good to uninstall Sun Java before,
> and reinstall it after? Hopefully that wouldn't be
> necessary. Anything else like that?

Nah.

>> To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything
>> (including Windows Updates), your anti-virus application
>> should be disabled and all other running processes
>> closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
>> the install.
>
> Nothing running except Explorer and Systray, and of course
> IE. I may even turn off KB891711. :-)

If you have the re-released version of 891711 installed, don't worry about
it. (Systray isn't really needed either.)

> And I need to reset Security to Medium so that cookies get
> turned on, and turn off Hosts, and clean out TIP and Temp,
> and re-enable HTA. Damn, I better write all this down.

Huh? I think you're making a mountain out of a very small molehill myself
but you might want to check out this page my MVP "Majik":

Preparing to Install a Major Programs (Especially Internet Explorer)
http://www.mindspring.com/~oe_oh/preparing_to_install_i...

> Thanks for everybody's comments. I hate to be such a
> Luddite on these upgrades, but I've been stung before and am
> more than a bit gunshy. I'm still resisting on DirectX 9.

Now /there/ I'd agree with you!
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 6:14:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Rick Chauvin wrote:
> PA Bear wrote:
>> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
>> Win98
>> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
> [...]
>
> That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
> repeatedly
> and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
> You
> don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
> say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
> incorrect thing.

I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).

Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including
some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
of
flaw in IE6 SP1.

If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 6:14:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

PA Bear wrote:
> Rick Chauvin wrote:
>> PA Bear wrote:
>>> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
>>> Win98
>>> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
>> [...]
>>
>> That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
>> repeatedly
>> and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
>> You
>> don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to
even
>> say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
>> incorrect thing.
>
> I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
> have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).

Well then, I don't think they've been doing the large quantity file deletes
that we have, then. Most people probably never will.

> Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you,
including
> some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
> opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some
sort
> of
> flaw in IE6 SP1.
>
> If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 6:56:41 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uQqRfj%23gFHA.2700@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Rick Chauvin wrote:
> > PA Bear wrote:
> >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
> >> Win98
> >> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
> > [...]
> >
> > That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
> > repeatedly
> > and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
> > You
> > don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
> > say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
> > incorrect thing.
>
> I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
> have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).
>
> Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including
> some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
> opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
> of
> flaw in IE6 SP1.
>
> If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.

Ouch! That's a bad idea, Robear.
BTW, the problem is *not* machine-specific. I can repro it on every Win98SE machine
I try it on, with IE6 SP1 installed. All different hardware, all different
software. The only reason it is not well-documented is that people generally don't
delete that large a number of files en masse.

Smile, Pooh, you just had a vacation!
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 8:05:01 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

PA Bear wrote:
>
> I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
> have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).

Not the last time we spoke you didn't anyway...

> Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including

It's not a small group of people - it's anyone who runs W98x with IE6x
installed has the problem always lurking ready to perform. You say 'quite
vocal' with an interesting flavor/feeling that I don't agree with that you
put out. Those who have spoke up on this issue did so with a giving & kind
heart to help with 'hands-on' knowledge of the situation and not just lip
service. In order for MS to know the truth they have to hear it and it takes
someone being forward enough to speak through the redundant red tape of a
company so big. I've put over 300 bench hours on this project and did so to
be of a help to others to solve the problem which I'm good at, but not to be
a vocalist is not my style, but to be hands-on where my strength and talent
is; someone has to take the microphone though or it won't get fixed.

> some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
> opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
> of flaw in IE6 SP1.

Well you are entitled to your opinion but I can Guarantee you if my fingers
were on yours or anyone's W98x IE6x keyboard right now - I can reproduce it
easily and consistently at will - if you say you can't PAB then quite
honestly that tells me that either you have not tried very hard or just use
WXP most of the time. I've never knew you to do any in-depth testing or
software analysis anyway but it is those people who do that on a daily basis
which puts them with a daily common occurrence to delete more than the
cumulative threshold aprox +/-1500 files within one boot process that sets
this problem off, or even if done all at once it still will set it off +/-.
This all has been discussed in detail within the last few months on this
forum, but has been known all the way back to shortly after IE6 came out.

> If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.

That's not the right answer to give MS consumers now is it - the right answer
is to be in the more helpful process to have it professionally fixed, or if
that's not possible because of an outdated OS not worth their time :(  then
tell it as it really is; but don't verbally defeat those who are hands-on
helping with the problem by inexperiencedly saying it doesn't exist because
without question - it does; but you insisting it doesn't for the last year
each time it comes up shows how out of touch you are with the actual issue
and how little you have tested it.

Most certainly this is an IE6x 9x bug - and immutable is that statement.

All the best,
Rick

> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 10:02:01 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:uQqRfj%23gFHA.2700@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
| Rick Chauvin wrote:
| > PA Bear wrote:
| >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
| >> Win98
| >> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
| > [...]
| >
| > That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
| > repeatedly
| > and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
| > You
| > don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
| > say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
| > incorrect thing.
|
| I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
| have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).
|
| Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including
| some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
| opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
| of
| flaw in IE6 SP1.
|
| If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.
| --
| ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
| MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security

I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
--
mae
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 12:07:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Didnt mean to open such a can of worms,

--
Adaware http://www.lavasoft.de
spybot http://security.kolla.de
AVG free antivirus http://www.grisoft.com
Etrust/Vet/CA.online Antivirus scan
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/virusinfo/scan.aspx
Panda online AntiVirus scan http://www.pandasoftware.com/ActiveScan/
Catalog of removal tools (1)
http://www.pandasoftware.com/download/utilities/
Catalog of removal tools (2)
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/newsinfo/collateral....
Blocking Unwanted Parasites with a Hosts file
http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
links provided as a courtesy, read all instructions on the pages before use

Grateful thanks to the authors and webmasters
_
"Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:87vze.56204$R21.6868@lakeread06...
| Alley says...
|
| > Speaking only for myself... I DID have problems
| > upgrading to IE6. Some of my software titles don't want
| > to work with it.
|
| Would you mind telling me what those are? Or what kinds of
| programs they are?
|
|
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 12:42:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

It ain't my machine, PA! I find I can do any size delete using PCMag's HDValet, so long as I don't let it involve the Recycle Bin! Don't go mean-mouthing my machine! Here, try Blanton's script. Copy it into a text file named "BlantonZeros.vbs". Click it to create, say, 2000 zero-byte files, to start. Then, delete them in Explorer. Be prepared to run out of resources & reboot, meaning close all other apps first.

........Start of BlantonZeros.vbs...after this line........
Option Explicit

Dim oFSO, oFile
Dim num, confirm

Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")

On Error Resume Next

num = CLng(InputBox("Enter a number (1 - 65534) of zero-byte txt files to " &_
"create in a subfolder (.\$$$n) off the current folder.",,0))
If (err.number <> 0) Then
MsgBox ("Invalid entry. ")
wscript.quit
End If

On Error GoTo 0

If num = 0 Then
wscript.quit
ElseIf (num < 1) Or (num > 65534) Then
MsgBox "Out of range. "
wscript.quit
End if


Dim oCurrentFolder
Dim sTempFolderPath

Set oCurrentFolder=oFSO.GetFolder(".")

sTempFolderPath = CStr(oCurrentFolder) 'build path
If Not oCurrentFolder.IsRootFolder Then 'deal with root
sTempFolderPath = sTempFolderPath & "\"
End If
sTempFolderPath = sTempFolderPath & "$$$" & num & "\"


confirm = MsgBox ("Create " & num & " zero-byte files in " & sTempFolderPath & " ? " & vbCRLF & vbCRLF & _
"Depending on the amount, this could take several minutes. " & vbCRLF, _
vbYesNo + vbQuestion _
)
If confirm = vbNo Then wscript.quit : End If


If Not oFSO.FolderExists(sTempFolderPath) Then
oFSO.CreateFolder(sTempFolderPath)
Else
confirm = MsgBox ("Folder already exists. Continue, overwriting existing files? ", vbYesNo + vbQuestion)
If confirm = vbNo Then wscript.quit : End If
End If


Dim Counter
Dim sPadding

Counter=1
While Counter <= num

sPadding = String(5-Len(Counter),"0")

Set oFile = oFSO.CreateTextFile(sTempFolderPath & sPadding & CStr(Counter), true)
oFile.Close

Counter=Counter+1
Wend

wscript.quit
........End of it.................

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net
"PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:uQqRfj%23gFHA.2700@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
| Rick Chauvin wrote:
| > PA Bear wrote:
| >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
| >> Win98
| >> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
| > [...]
| >
| > That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
| > repeatedly
| > and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
| > You
| > don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
| > say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
| > incorrect thing.
|
| I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
| have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).
|
| Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including
| some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
| opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
| of
| flaw in IE6 SP1.
|
| If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.
| --
| ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
| MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
|
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:13:13 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested this? Try
deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously, with IE6 SP1
installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the end of the
deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and see if you
experience a freeze then.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

"mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
--
mae
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:13:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Exactly. You can test it as I said by making a copy of a directory with
thousands of files, and then try deleting that copy....and wait....and
wait....

glee wrote:
> Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested
> this? Try deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer
simultaneously,
> with IE6 SP1 installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes
at
> the end of the deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle
> Bin, and see if you experience a freeze then.
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
> "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
> Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
> However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
> They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
> --
> mae
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:30:25 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Wow....why so hostile on this subject, Bear??
Have you actually recently tested the issue with IE6 SP1 on Win98SE, deleting *at
least* 1500 files in Windows Explorer simultaneously? I have, on a number of
systems with totally different hardware and software, and they all will invariably
experience the issue described. A number of others have also tested it, including
most recently Bill Blanton, who did not think the issue existed until he actually
tested it as I described.

I for one do not appreciate or deserve being called a Moral Scold, and do not
understand why such a comment is inserted in this thread; nor is it true that "the
problem persists for only a very small (yet quite vocal) number" of users. The
problem is *noticed* by only a small number of users, as the overwhelming majority
of Win98SE users never delete that quantity of files in one shot.

I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of this entire issue.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uDqDwi%23gFHA.3544@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Inline:
>
> Peabody wrote:
> > PA Bear says...
> >
> >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very
> >> small number of Win98 users in earlier versions of IE6
> >> only. Not a problem now.
> >
> > Well, in case it should affect me for some reason (my luck
> > tends to run that way), is there a safe-haven number of
> > deletes that never did cause a problem for anyone. For
> > example, would deleting, say, 254 files at a time always
> > have been safe?
> >
> > And, is there a MS KB article on this problem?
>
> Not to my knowledge, no. The problem persists for only a very small (yet
> quite vocal) number of Win98(SE) users who've installed IE6 SP1. As an
> overwhelming majority of Win98(SE) users do /not/ have the problem, it's my
> belief that any persisting problems are machine- or installation-specific
> and not due to some flaw in IE6 SP1. YMMV, as the Moral Scolds here are
> more than happy to tell you.
>
> >> IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows
> >> Update.
> >
> > But not if downloaded in full and installed offline? Well
> > that's interesting, and good to know. What I'm probably
> > going to do is Ghost the C partition right before doing
> > the upgrade, just as an added precaution.
>
> /If/ you choose to keep your previous installation of IE available when
> installing via a separate download/offline, IE6 will be uninstallable.
>
> Remember to check in at Windows Update after installing, no matter how you
> install it.
>
> > Do you think it would be good to uninstall Sun Java before,
> > and reinstall it after? Hopefully that wouldn't be
> > necessary. Anything else like that?
>
> Nah.
>
> >> To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything
> >> (including Windows Updates), your anti-virus application
> >> should be disabled and all other running processes
> >> closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
> >> the install.
> >
> > Nothing running except Explorer and Systray, and of course
> > IE. I may even turn off KB891711. :-)
>
> If you have the re-released version of 891711 installed, don't worry about
> it. (Systray isn't really needed either.)
>
> > And I need to reset Security to Medium so that cookies get
> > turned on, and turn off Hosts, and clean out TIP and Temp,
> > and re-enable HTA. Damn, I better write all this down.
>
> Huh? I think you're making a mountain out of a very small molehill myself
> but you might want to check out this page my MVP "Majik":
>
> Preparing to Install a Major Programs (Especially Internet Explorer)
> http://www.mindspring.com/~oe_oh/preparing_to_install_i...
>
> > Thanks for everybody's comments. I hate to be such a
> > Luddite on these upgrades, but I've been stung before and am
> > more than a bit gunshy. I'm still resisting on DirectX 9.
>
> Now /there/ I'd agree with you!
> --
> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
> MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
>
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 1:39:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

As long as you install IE6 SP1 while all other apps are closed, as described on
Majik's web page (as linked by Robear elsewhere in this thread), you should not
experience any downside, and should not have any problems. You system will also be
more secure....at least, as secure as one can hope using Win98 with any version of
IE. ;-)
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
>
>
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 12:25:18 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Just to note: It was 98 "First edition." here. On the only two machines
I tested (one "real", one virtual) I was able to produce the bug. It
is quite unusual to have to delete that many files, though I imagine
some people have that many in %temp%, until they learn that it has
to be cleaned out once in a while.


"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message news:e6a57XChFHA.3936@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Wow....why so hostile on this subject, Bear??
> Have you actually recently tested the issue with IE6 SP1 on Win98SE, deleting *at
> least* 1500 files in Windows Explorer simultaneously? I have, on a number of
> systems with totally different hardware and software, and they all will invariably
> experience the issue described. A number of others have also tested it, including
> most recently Bill Blanton, who did not think the issue existed until he actually
> tested it as I described.
>
> I for one do not appreciate or deserve being called a Moral Scold, and do not
> understand why such a comment is inserted in this thread; nor is it true that "the
> problem persists for only a very small (yet quite vocal) number" of users. The
> problem is *noticed* by only a small number of users, as the overwhelming majority
> of Win98SE users never delete that quantity of files in one shot.
>
> I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of this entire issue.
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
> "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:uDqDwi%23gFHA.3544@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
>> Inline:
>>
>> Peabody wrote:
>> > PA Bear says...
>> >
>> >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very
>> >> small number of Win98 users in earlier versions of IE6
>> >> only. Not a problem now.
>> >
>> > Well, in case it should affect me for some reason (my luck
>> > tends to run that way), is there a safe-haven number of
>> > deletes that never did cause a problem for anyone. For
>> > example, would deleting, say, 254 files at a time always
>> > have been safe?
>> >
>> > And, is there a MS KB article on this problem?
>>
>> Not to my knowledge, no. The problem persists for only a very small (yet
>> quite vocal) number of Win98(SE) users who've installed IE6 SP1. As an
>> overwhelming majority of Win98(SE) users do /not/ have the problem, it's my
>> belief that any persisting problems are machine- or installation-specific
>> and not due to some flaw in IE6 SP1. YMMV, as the Moral Scolds here are
>> more than happy to tell you.
>>
>> >> IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows
>> >> Update.
>> >
>> > But not if downloaded in full and installed offline? Well
>> > that's interesting, and good to know. What I'm probably
>> > going to do is Ghost the C partition right before doing
>> > the upgrade, just as an added precaution.
>>
>> /If/ you choose to keep your previous installation of IE available when
>> installing via a separate download/offline, IE6 will be uninstallable.
>>
>> Remember to check in at Windows Update after installing, no matter how you
>> install it.
>>
>> > Do you think it would be good to uninstall Sun Java before,
>> > and reinstall it after? Hopefully that wouldn't be
>> > necessary. Anything else like that?
>>
>> Nah.
>>
>> >> To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything
>> >> (including Windows Updates), your anti-virus application
>> >> should be disabled and all other running processes
>> >> closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
>> >> the install.
>> >
>> > Nothing running except Explorer and Systray, and of course
>> > IE. I may even turn off KB891711. :-)
>>
>> If you have the re-released version of 891711 installed, don't worry about
>> it. (Systray isn't really needed either.)
>>
>> > And I need to reset Security to Medium so that cookies get
>> > turned on, and turn off Hosts, and clean out TIP and Temp,
>> > and re-enable HTA. Damn, I better write all this down.
>>
>> Huh? I think you're making a mountain out of a very small molehill myself
>> but you might want to check out this page my MVP "Majik":
>>
>> Preparing to Install a Major Programs (Especially Internet Explorer)
>> http://www.mindspring.com/~oe_oh/preparing_to_install_i...
>>
>> > Thanks for everybody's comments. I hate to be such a
>> > Luddite on these upgrades, but I've been stung before and am
>> > more than a bit gunshy. I'm still resisting on DirectX 9.
>>
>> Now /there/ I'd agree with you!
>> --
>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
>> MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
>>
>
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 3:47:49 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Peabody says...
>
>
>Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
>IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
>have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
>deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?

I just wanted to report that I managed to upgrade from IE5.5 to IE6
and it seems to work ok so far. (But still no luck getting UniVoice
installed. Rats!)

With respect to the multiple-file-delete problem, I noticed that the
"old" IE5.5 version of BROWSEUI.DLL is actually dated later than its
IE6 replacement version, and also later than yet another version
installed by one of the after-install updates from WinUpdate (I don't
know which one - I did all six updates at once). Unfortunately, I
didn't save a copy of the intermediate version, although I assume it's
somewhere in the IE6 installation download.

I haven't done enough deletes to test it yet, but will watch for the
problem.

Thanks for everybody's help.
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 4:52:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Watch out, Peabody, or Bear will mean-mouth your machine!

--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net
"Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RicAe.74540$Fv.25627@lakeread01...
| Peabody says...
| >
| >
| >Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
| >IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
| >have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
| >deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
|
| I just wanted to report that I managed to upgrade from IE5.5 to IE6
| and it seems to work ok so far. (But still no luck getting UniVoice
| installed. Rats!)
|
| With respect to the multiple-file-delete problem, I noticed that the
| "old" IE5.5 version of BROWSEUI.DLL is actually dated later than its
| IE6 replacement version, and also later than yet another version
| installed by one of the after-install updates from WinUpdate (I don't
| know which one - I did all six updates at once). Unfortunately, I
| didn't save a copy of the intermediate version, although I assume it's
| somewhere in the IE6 installation download.
|
| I haven't done enough deletes to test it yet, but will watch for the
| problem.
|
| Thanks for everybody's help.
|
|
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 11:32:11 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

I just use normally.
Copy all my CD info to drive before burning, then delete. (600MB-/+)
I could check them to see the numbers.
I know once my tif's were over 25,000 files.
Remember this because my history wasn't saving properly.
I never use RB except for small files.
(I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
Why some have the problem and some don't ?
Maybe similar to the update this year-
that caused no problem for some but did for others.
--
mae

"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
news:o b1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
| Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested
this? Try
| deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously, with
IE6 SP1
| installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the end of
the
| deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and see
if you
| experience a freeze then.
| --
| Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
| http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
|
| "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
| news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
| I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
| Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
| However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
| They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
| --
| mae
|
|
|
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 2:09:59 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
news:o rpdEAbhFHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I just use normally.
> Copy all my CD info to drive before burning, then delete. (600MB-/+)

The size of the deletion in MB does not seem to be part of the issue....it is the
*number* of files being deleted simultaneously.

> I could check them to see the numbers.
> I know once my tif's were over 25,000 files.
> Remember this because my history wasn't saving properly.

Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting the contents
of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools menu> Internet
Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow, perhaps by not doing
the deletion in one bite. Something to look into, for sure.

> I never use RB except for small files.
> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)

Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)

> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
> Maybe similar to the update this year-
> that caused no problem for some but did for others.

Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on a regular
basis. :-o
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:o b1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> | Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested
> this? Try
> | deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously, with
> IE6 SP1
> | installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the end of
> the
> | deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and see
> if you
> | experience a freeze then.
> | --
> | Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> | http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> |
> | "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
> | news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> | I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
> | Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
> | However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
> | They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
> | --
> | mae
> |
> |
> |
>
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 2:10:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

glee wrote:
> "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:o rpdEAbhFHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> I just use normally.
>> Copy all my CD info to drive before burning, then delete. (600MB-/+)
>
> The size of the deletion in MB does not seem to be part of the issue....it
is
> the *number* of files being deleted simultaneously.
>
>> I could check them to see the numbers.
>> I know once my tif's were over 25,000 files.
>> Remember this because my history wasn't saving properly.
>
> Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting
the
> contents of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools
menu>
> Internet Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow,
> perhaps by not doing the deletion in one bite. Something to look into,
for
> sure.

I think so. I'd almost bet on it.
Let mae try doing that in Windows Explorer, and she'll get a different
result - I'm pretty sure.

>> I never use RB except for small files.
>> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
>
> Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)
>
>> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
>> Maybe similar to the update this year-
>> that caused no problem for some but did for others.
>
> Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on a
> regular basis. :-o
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
>> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:o b1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested
>> this? Try
>>> deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously, with
>> IE6 SP1
>>> installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the end
of
>> the
>>> deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and see
>> if you
>>> experience a freeze then.
>>> --
>>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
>>> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>>>
>>> "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
>>> Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
>>> However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
>>> They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
>>> --
>>> mae
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 2:10:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Ooops, a word of caution: don't ever delete the TIF in windows explorer (it
will leave a large, unreferenced, index file in IE), but rather, try
deleting a COPY of the TIF (or something like that) in Windows Explorer.

Bill in Co. wrote:
> glee wrote:
>> "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:o rpdEAbhFHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>> I just use normally.
>>> Copy all my CD info to drive before burning, then delete. (600MB-/+)
>>
>> The size of the deletion in MB does not seem to be part of the
issue....it is
>> the *number* of files being deleted simultaneously.
>>
>>> I could check them to see the numbers.
>>> I know once my tif's were over 25,000 files.
>>> Remember this because my history wasn't saving properly.
>>
>> Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting
the
>> contents of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools
menu>
>> Internet Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow,
>> perhaps by not doing the deletion in one bite. Something to look into,
for
>> sure.
>
> I think so. I'd almost bet on it.
> Let mae try doing that in Windows Explorer, and she'll get a different
> result - I'm pretty sure.
>
>>> I never use RB except for small files.
>>> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
>>
>> Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)
>>
>>> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
>>> Maybe similar to the update this year-
>>> that caused no problem for some but did for others.
>>
>> Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on a
>> regular basis. :-o
>> --
>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
>> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>>
>>
>>> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
>>> news:o b1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>>> Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you
tested
>>>> this? Try deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer
>>>> simultaneously, with IE6 SP1 installed on Win98SE, and see if the
Explorer
>>>> window freezes at the end of the deletion. If not, empty the files at
>>>> once from the Recycle Bin, and see if you experience a freeze then.
>>>> --
>>>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
>>>> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>>>>
>>>> "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
>>>> Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
>>>> However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
>>>> They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
>>>> --
>>>> mae
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 2:26:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

glee wrote:

[...]

> Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting
> the contents of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through
> Tools menu> Internet Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the
> issue somehow, perhaps by not doing the deletion in one bite. Something
> to look into, for sure.

I never noticed using that TIF delete button to set if off either, however
I never use that way though - I'll keep an eye on that too.

Today interestingly I noticed that when I did a Start> Find> FilesFolders
search while I was renaming a folder when the search was done the hang was
set off. We know that a rename will do it after the fact though and that
was always confirmed too, but this was the first time I noticed a 'Find'
set it off..

...just a tidbit and thought to mention it.

Rick

>
>> I never use RB except for small files.
>> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
>
> Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)
>
>> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
>> Maybe similar to the update this year-
>> that caused no problem for some but did for others.
>
> Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on
> a regular basis. :-o
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>
>
>> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:o b1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> | Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you
>> | tested
>> this? Try
>> | deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously,
>> | with
>> IE6 SP1
>> | installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the
>> | end of
>> the
>> | deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and
>> | see
>> if you
>> | experience a freeze then.
>> | --
>> | Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
>> | http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
>> |
>> | "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
>> | news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> | I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
>> | Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
>> | However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
>> | They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
>> | --
>> | mae
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 8:21:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
news:o N5AT3bhFHA.2372@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
....snip
|
| Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when
deleting the contents
| of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools menu>
Internet
| Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow, perhaps
by not doing
| the deletion in one bite. Something to look into, for sure.
|

It's also true that at least one 3rd party app can avoid the problem.
PCMag's HDValet can delete files 3 ways: oblivion, Recycle Bin, own
holding folder. ONLY when it involves the Recycle Bin will it cause that
mayhem-- even after 10,000 files!
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 8:32:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

After a proper Internet Options delete, TIFs of 18,199 files in 13
folders became 6 files in 3 folders. But it does not appear to have
triggered the problem.


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net
"Rick Chauvin" <justask@nospamz.com> wrote in message
news:%23r78oSihFHA.2372@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
| glee wrote:
|
| [...]
|
| > Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when
deleting
| > the contents of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done
through
| > Tools menu> Internet Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the
| > issue somehow, perhaps by not doing the deletion in one bite.
Something
| > to look into, for sure.
|
| I never noticed using that TIF delete button to set if off either,
however
| I never use that way though - I'll keep an eye on that too.
|
| Today interestingly I noticed that when I did a Start> Find>
FilesFolders
| search while I was renaming a folder when the search was done the hang
was
| set off. We know that a rename will do it after the fact though and
that
| was always confirmed too, but this was the first time I noticed a
'Find'
| set it off..
|
| ..just a tidbit and thought to mention it.
|
| Rick
|
| >
| >> I never use RB except for small files.
| >> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
| >
| > Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)
| >
| >> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
| >> Maybe similar to the update this year-
| >> that caused no problem for some but did for others.
| >
| > Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse,
on
| > a regular basis. :-o
| > --
| > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
| > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
| >
| >
| >> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
| >> news:o b1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
| >> | Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you
| >> | tested
| >> this? Try
| >> | deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer
simultaneously,
| >> | with
| >> IE6 SP1
| >> | installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at
the
| >> | end of
| >> the
| >> | deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin,
and
| >> | see
| >> if you
| >> | experience a freeze then.
| >> | --
| >> | Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
| >> | http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
| >> |
| >> | "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
| >> | news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
| >> | I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
| >> | Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
| >> | However, I read KB articles where this and similar was
mentioned.
| >> | They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
| >> | --
| >> | mae
|
|
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 8:56:39 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:09:59 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
>"mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message

Ahhh.... I finally found this thread!!

>The size of the deletion in MB does not seem to be part of the issue....it is the
>*number* of files being deleted simultaneously.

Yep, that's my mileage too.

>Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting the contents
>of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools menu> Internet
>Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow

I'm sure it does, if it's an Explorer shell issue - as is almost
certainly the case, given that using IE 5.5 SP2 versions of
BrowseUI.dll and BrowseLC.dll fixes it.

Similarly, the command line is immune, and *much* faster. Even in XP,
which doesn't have the bug, I've taken to spawning a Cmd prompt from
which to do bulk deletes or renames. When there's no bulk clusters to
copy, the extra per-file overhead imposed by "rich" Explorer exceeds
that of what you are actually trying to do.

>> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
>> Maybe similar to the update this year-
>> that caused no problem for some but did for others.

>Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on a regular
>basis. :-o

Or maybe they don't realize what the problem is. Most folks will just
shrug, put it down to some Windows bug ("everyone knows Windows is
buggy, right?") and hit the Reset button. Bad exit, secondary file
damage made worse by "kill, bury, deny" auto-Scandisk defaults, etc.

Eventually the prophecy that "everyone knows Windows is buggy so you
have to format and re-install every six months" is fullfilled.

I see PA Bear is still asserting that this is "rare" and that IE 6 SP1
fixes it. Bollocks on both counts, I'm afraid:
- IE 6 SP1 is just as prone to this as IE 6 SP0
- the problem is common, perhaps inevitable
- it's not limited to FAT16, certain hardware, multiple volumes etc.
- it even affects Safe mode, so it's not underfootware
- it's present where malware has been excluded

I started testing and logging all Win9x systems for this bug, for a
few months now. Just about every such system was affected, and these
are both "my" systems (i.e. set up my way) and arbitrary systems (i.e.
set up in an arbitrary or all-default ways, including freshly so).

I don't mind if folks don't have time to test this stuff, but I don't
like to see assertions made which are contrary to what many of us (who
have tested this at some length) have observed.



>-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Reality is that which, when you stop believing
in it, does not go away (PKD)
>-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 2:53:58 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:21:13 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote:
>"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message

>It's also true that at least one 3rd party app can avoid the problem.
>PCMag's HDValet can delete files 3 ways: oblivion, Recycle Bin, own
>holding folder. ONLY when it involves the Recycle Bin will it cause that
>mayhem-- even after 10,000 files!

Maybe we can help pathetic Explorer.exe by adding something like...

"File Folder", add new action
Del = DelTree.exe "%1"

"*", add new action
Del = C:\Command.com /C Del "%1"

....as a way of passing these basic functions to a compitent handler?
Oh, the irony, that it should come to this.

NB: The above has NOT been tested - do NOT use as-is!


>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
I'm *not* indignant!
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 4:13:20 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote
in message news:k217d153cdn7ghhupbrfbdovh33uh50o1c@4ax.com...
| On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:21:13 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote:
| >"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
|
| >It's also true that at least one 3rd party app can avoid the problem.
| >PCMag's HDValet can delete files 3 ways: oblivion, Recycle Bin, own
| >holding folder. ONLY when it involves the Recycle Bin will it cause
that
| >mayhem-- even after 10,000 files!
|
| Maybe we can help pathetic Explorer.exe by adding something like...
|
| "File Folder", add new action
| Del = DelTree.exe "%1"
|
| "*", add new action
| Del = C:\Command.com /C Del "%1"
|
| ...as a way of passing these basic functions to a compitent handler?
| Oh, the irony, that it should come to this.

Yes, ironic & sad, that Windows, meant to be DOS's superior, took a
horrible backstep with regard to delete of large numbers of files.

|
| NB: The above has NOT been tested - do NOT use as-is!

I hesitate to test it. Can it be made to execute a full .bat or a .vbs?
Then, a warning/confirmation could be added to prevent accidents. I
wonder whether a .vbs would work for it as well as DOS?

|
|
| >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
| I'm *not* indignant!
| >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 7:51:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Actually I have to thank PABear for mentioning again that he has never seen
the problem yet, and because of that it has motivated me to quickly throw
together a webpage that talks about the problem again.

I know if PABear was shown what to do that he would straight forward see
the problem since it's so easy to do and so prevalent of a problem, and
since he is an active member of the MVP community and especially since he
is an MS MVP of Internet Explorer then by all means and all the more
reasons why he should be shown the problem. Robear has connections to the
'people in the know' and technicians I'm sure that could be a help to shine
the light onto this subject for the benefit of everyone that run's 9x - to
finally solve this problem.

Besides the other links that outline this anomaly
http://cquirke.mvps.org/bexp1.htm
&
http://www.frankprovo.com/win98ie6filesproblem.htm

...and now I offer my little humble brief write-up about it to try and help
the process along to get fixed. thanks

http://www.ptcnh.net/~rdchauvin/W98xIE6xBug.htm

Rick
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 11:01:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Well said, Chauvin! I will bring it to PA's attention, soon as he awakes
of his latest hibernation!


--
Thanks or Good Luck,
There may be humor in this post, and,
Naturally, you will not sue,
should things get worse after this,
PCR
pcrrcp@netzero.net
"Rick Chauvin" <justask@nospamz.com> wrote in message
news:o v3BOtxhFHA.2472@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
| Actually I have to thank PABear for mentioning again that he has never
seen
| the problem yet, and because of that it has motivated me to quickly
throw
| together a webpage that talks about the problem again.
|
| I know if PABear was shown what to do that he would straight forward
see
| the problem since it's so easy to do and so prevalent of a problem,
and
| since he is an active member of the MVP community and especially since
he
| is an MS MVP of Internet Explorer then by all means and all the more
| reasons why he should be shown the problem. Robear has connections to
the
| 'people in the know' and technicians I'm sure that could be a help to
shine
| the light onto this subject for the benefit of everyone that run's
9x - to
| finally solve this problem.
|
| Besides the other links that outline this anomaly
| http://cquirke.mvps.org/bexp1.htm
| &
| http://www.frankprovo.com/win98ie6filesproblem.htm
|
| ..and now I offer my little humble brief write-up about it to try and
help
| the process along to get fixed. thanks
|
| http://www.ptcnh.net/~rdchauvin/W98xIE6xBug.htm
|
| Rick
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 7:06:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:13:20 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote:
>"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote

>| Maybe we can help pathetic Explorer.exe by adding something like...

>| "File Folder", add new action
>| Del = DelTree.exe "%1"

>| "*", add new action
>| Del = C:\Command.com /C Del "%1"

>| ...as a way of passing these basic functions to a compitent handler?
>| Oh, the irony, that it should come to this.

>Yes, ironic & sad, that Windows, meant to be DOS's superior, took a
>horrible backstep with regard to delete of large numbers of files.

>| NB: The above has NOT been tested - do NOT use as-is!

>I hesitate to test it. Can it be made to execute a full .bat or a .vbs?

Yes, I don't see why not... I'd use batch rather than .vbs as that
avoids a dependency on WSH (which I suppress or disable)

>Then, a warning/confirmation could be added to prevent accidents. I
>wonder whether a .vbs would work for it as well as DOS?

Remember CScript.exe vs. WScript.exe there, if you want "less Windows"
(e.g. if the bug applies in WScript.exe)

There are also various parameters (use /? to read 'em) and syntax
tricks (e.g. ?*.* instead of *.*) that modify the warnings you (don't)
get. I've avoided those in the off-the-cuff guessware examples,
because I wanted those warnings to remain.

Also, there's no Recycled Bin fallback with these. If you kill
something with these, they stay dead.



>------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
Forget http://cquirke.blogspot.com and check out a
better one at http://topicdrift.blogspot.com instead!
>------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 5:07:09 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote
in message news:grp8d1dbu00v5ntgtv3l707g4gjj5dlodn@4ax.com...
| On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:13:20 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote:
| >"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org>
wrote
|
| >| Maybe we can help pathetic Explorer.exe by adding something like...
|
| >| "File Folder", add new action
| >| Del = DelTree.exe "%1"
|
| >| "*", add new action
| >| Del = C:\Command.com /C Del "%1"
|
| >| ...as a way of passing these basic functions to a compitent
handler?
| >| Oh, the irony, that it should come to this.
|
| >Yes, ironic & sad, that Windows, meant to be DOS's superior, took a
| >horrible backstep with regard to delete of large numbers of files.
|
| >| NB: The above has NOT been tested - do NOT use as-is!
|
| >I hesitate to test it. Can it be made to execute a full .bat or a
..vbs?
|
| Yes, I don't see why not... I'd use batch rather than .vbs as that
| avoids a dependency on WSH (which I suppress or disable)
|
| >Then, a warning/confirmation could be added to prevent accidents. I
| >wonder whether a .vbs would work for it as well as DOS?
|
| Remember CScript.exe vs. WScript.exe there, if you want "less Windows"
| (e.g. if the bug applies in WScript.exe)
|
| There are also various parameters (use /? to read 'em) and syntax
| tricks (e.g. ?*.* instead of *.*) that modify the warnings you (don't)
| get. I've avoided those in the off-the-cuff guessware examples,
| because I wanted those warnings to remain.
|
| Also, there's no Recycled Bin fallback with these. If you kill
| something with these, they stay dead.

Thanks for these tips, cquirke. I'm not quite prepared to attempt it.
Also, much better would be a fix to those .dll's by MS.

|
|
|
| >------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
| Forget http://cquirke.blogspot.com and check out a
| better one at http://topicdrift.blogspot.com instead!
| >------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
!