What is the downside of upgrading to IE6-SP1?

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
40 answers Last reply
More about what downside upgrading
  1. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I have seen no "downside" on 98-98se - only improvement.
    --
    mae

    "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
    | Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    | IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    | have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    | deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
    |
  2. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    (Except that deleting large number of files quirk, which - for most -
    probably wouldn't be a big deal at all.

    Not worth preventing upgrading!

    mae wrote:
    > I have seen no "downside" on 98-98se - only improvement.
    > --
    > mae
    >
    > "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
    >> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    >> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    >> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    >> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
  3. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Never had the "delete" problem.
    --
    mae

    "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:OOhvgU3gFHA.2852@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    | (Except that deleting large number of files quirk, which - for most -
    | probably wouldn't be a big deal at all.
    |
    | Not worth preventing upgrading!
    |
    | mae wrote:
    | > I have seen no "downside" on 98-98se - only improvement.
    | > --
    | > mae
    | >
    | > "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    | > news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
    | >> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    | >> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    | >> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    | >> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
    |
    |
  4. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Well, try deleting a *whole bunch of files* (like a directory with
    *thousand's* of files in it), and see if you don't get it.

    An easy way to test it: make a copy of some directory with thousands of
    files in it, and then delete the copy of that directory, and see what
    happens.

    mae wrote:
    > Never had the "delete" problem.
    > --
    > mae
    >
    > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    > news:OOhvgU3gFHA.2852@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    >> (Except that deleting large number of files quirk, which - for most -
    >> probably wouldn't be a big deal at all.
    >>
    >> Not worth preventing upgrading!
    >>
    >> mae wrote:
    >>> I have seen no "downside" on 98-98se - only improvement.
    >>> --
    >>> mae
    >>>
    >>> "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
    >>>> Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    >>>> IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    >>>> have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    >>>> deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
  5. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of Win98
    users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.

    IE6 SP1 is considered a critical update:
    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie55.browser/msg/5024b07f15bf6e52

    IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows Update.

    Make sure you revisit Windows Update after installing IE6 SP1 as there will
    be critical updates you will then need.

    To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything (including Windows
    Updates), your anti-virus application should be disabled and all other
    running processes closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
    the install.
    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security

    Peabody wrote:
    > Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    > IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    > have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    > deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
  6. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    > Well, try deleting a *whole bunch of files* (like a directory with
    > *thousand's* of files in it), and see if you don't get it.

    I get that delete problem. Thankfully I don't often delete large amounts of
    files :-).

    jkb
  7. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    In article <nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06>, waybackKILLSPAM44
    @yahoo.com says...
    > Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    > IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    > have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    > deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
    >

    Speaking only for myself... I DID have problems upgrading to IE6. Some
    of my software titles don't want to work with it. I worked around this
    by installing another instance of Win98SE onto another partition and
    creating my own "bootloader" to switch from OS to OS. Again, that is
    something I did and would only recommend it as a last ditch effort to
    have ALL of your software work. What I find rather enjoyable, is that
    many said I couldn't do it without a recognized bootloader from some
    other kind of OS, such as WinXP or Win2000.

    Al
  8. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    PA Bear says...

    > The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very
    > small number of Win98 users in earlier versions of IE6
    > only. Not a problem now.

    Well, in case it should affect me for some reason (my luck
    tends to run that way), is there a safe-haven number of
    deletes that never did cause a problem for anyone. For
    example, would deleting, say, 254 files at a time always
    have been safe?

    And, is there a MS KB article on this problem?

    > IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows
    > Update.

    But not if downloaded in full and installed offline? Well
    that's interesting, and good to know. What I'm probably
    going to do is Ghost the C partition right before doing
    the upgrade, just as an added precaution.

    Do you think it would be good to uninstall Sun Java before,
    and reinstall it after? Hopefully that wouldn't be
    necessary. Anything else like that?

    > To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything
    > (including Windows Updates), your anti-virus application
    > should be disabled and all other running processes
    > closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
    > the install.

    Nothing running except Explorer and Systray, and of course
    IE. I may even turn off KB891711. :-)

    And I need to reset Security to Medium so that cookies get
    turned on, and turn off Hosts, and clean out TIP and Temp,
    and re-enable HTA. Damn, I better write all this down.

    Thanks for everybody's comments. I hate to be such a
    Luddite on these upgrades, but I've been stung before and am
    more than a bit gunshy. I'm still resisting on DirectX 9.
  9. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Alley says...

    > Speaking only for myself... I DID have problems
    > upgrading to IE6. Some of my software titles don't want
    > to work with it.

    Would you mind telling me what those are? Or what kinds of
    programs they are?
  10. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    PA Bear wrote:
    > The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of Win98
    > users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
    [...]

    That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that repeatedly
    and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers. You
    don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
    say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
    incorrect thing.

    The facts are that All 9x IE6x systems have the large quantity file delete
    hang problem period! ..which is a PITA! Whether a person at one time or
    cumulatively deletes the proven threshold amount or not - the fact is it will
    happen if they reach it.

    Rick
  11. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Peabody wrote:
    > Alley says...
    >
    > > Speaking only for myself... I DID have problems
    > > upgrading to IE6. Some of my software titles don't want
    > > to work with it.
    >
    > Would you mind telling me what those are? Or what kinds of
    > programs they are?

    Peadbody, you can read about it here:
    http://cquirke.mvps.org/bexp1.htm

    or somewhat here:
    http://www.frankprovo.com/win98ie6filesproblem.htm

    Rick
  12. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Inline:

    Peabody wrote:
    > PA Bear says...
    >
    >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very
    >> small number of Win98 users in earlier versions of IE6
    >> only. Not a problem now.
    >
    > Well, in case it should affect me for some reason (my luck
    > tends to run that way), is there a safe-haven number of
    > deletes that never did cause a problem for anyone. For
    > example, would deleting, say, 254 files at a time always
    > have been safe?
    >
    > And, is there a MS KB article on this problem?

    Not to my knowledge, no. The problem persists for only a very small (yet
    quite vocal) number of Win98(SE) users who've installed IE6 SP1. As an
    overwhelming majority of Win98(SE) users do /not/ have the problem, it's my
    belief that any persisting problems are machine- or installation-specific
    and not due to some flaw in IE6 SP1. YMMV, as the Moral Scolds here are
    more than happy to tell you.

    >> IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows
    >> Update.
    >
    > But not if downloaded in full and installed offline? Well
    > that's interesting, and good to know. What I'm probably
    > going to do is Ghost the C partition right before doing
    > the upgrade, just as an added precaution.

    /If/ you choose to keep your previous installation of IE available when
    installing via a separate download/offline, IE6 will be uninstallable.

    Remember to check in at Windows Update after installing, no matter how you
    install it.

    > Do you think it would be good to uninstall Sun Java before,
    > and reinstall it after? Hopefully that wouldn't be
    > necessary. Anything else like that?

    Nah.

    >> To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything
    >> (including Windows Updates), your anti-virus application
    >> should be disabled and all other running processes
    >> closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
    >> the install.
    >
    > Nothing running except Explorer and Systray, and of course
    > IE. I may even turn off KB891711. :-)

    If you have the re-released version of 891711 installed, don't worry about
    it. (Systray isn't really needed either.)

    > And I need to reset Security to Medium so that cookies get
    > turned on, and turn off Hosts, and clean out TIP and Temp,
    > and re-enable HTA. Damn, I better write all this down.

    Huh? I think you're making a mountain out of a very small molehill myself
    but you might want to check out this page my MVP "Majik":

    Preparing to Install a Major Programs (Especially Internet Explorer)
    http://www.mindspring.com/~oe_oh/preparing_to_install_internet_ex.htm

    > Thanks for everybody's comments. I hate to be such a
    > Luddite on these upgrades, but I've been stung before and am
    > more than a bit gunshy. I'm still resisting on DirectX 9.

    Now /there/ I'd agree with you!
    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
  13. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Rick Chauvin wrote:
    > PA Bear wrote:
    >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
    >> Win98
    >> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
    > [...]
    >
    > That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
    > repeatedly
    > and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
    > You
    > don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
    > say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
    > incorrect thing.

    I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
    have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).

    Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including
    some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
    opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
    of
    flaw in IE6 SP1.

    If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.
    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
  14. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    PA Bear wrote:
    > Rick Chauvin wrote:
    >> PA Bear wrote:
    >>> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
    >>> Win98
    >>> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
    >> [...]
    >>
    >> That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
    >> repeatedly
    >> and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
    >> You
    >> don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to
    even
    >> say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
    >> incorrect thing.
    >
    > I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
    > have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).

    Well then, I don't think they've been doing the large quantity file deletes
    that we have, then. Most people probably never will.

    > Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you,
    including
    > some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
    > opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some
    sort
    > of
    > flaw in IE6 SP1.
    >
    > If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.
    > --
    > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
  15. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:uQqRfj%23gFHA.2700@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > Rick Chauvin wrote:
    > > PA Bear wrote:
    > >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
    > >> Win98
    > >> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
    > > [...]
    > >
    > > That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
    > > repeatedly
    > > and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
    > > You
    > > don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
    > > say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
    > > incorrect thing.
    >
    > I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
    > have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).
    >
    > Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including
    > some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
    > opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
    > of
    > flaw in IE6 SP1.
    >
    > If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.

    Ouch! That's a bad idea, Robear.
    BTW, the problem is *not* machine-specific. I can repro it on every Win98SE machine
    I try it on, with IE6 SP1 installed. All different hardware, all different
    software. The only reason it is not well-documented is that people generally don't
    delete that large a number of files en masse.

    Smile, Pooh, you just had a vacation!
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
  16. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    PA Bear wrote:
    >
    > I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
    > have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).

    Not the last time we spoke you didn't anyway...

    > Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including

    It's not a small group of people - it's anyone who runs W98x with IE6x
    installed has the problem always lurking ready to perform. You say 'quite
    vocal' with an interesting flavor/feeling that I don't agree with that you
    put out. Those who have spoke up on this issue did so with a giving & kind
    heart to help with 'hands-on' knowledge of the situation and not just lip
    service. In order for MS to know the truth they have to hear it and it takes
    someone being forward enough to speak through the redundant red tape of a
    company so big. I've put over 300 bench hours on this project and did so to
    be of a help to others to solve the problem which I'm good at, but not to be
    a vocalist is not my style, but to be hands-on where my strength and talent
    is; someone has to take the microphone though or it won't get fixed.

    > some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
    > opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
    > of flaw in IE6 SP1.

    Well you are entitled to your opinion but I can Guarantee you if my fingers
    were on yours or anyone's W98x IE6x keyboard right now - I can reproduce it
    easily and consistently at will - if you say you can't PAB then quite
    honestly that tells me that either you have not tried very hard or just use
    WXP most of the time. I've never knew you to do any in-depth testing or
    software analysis anyway but it is those people who do that on a daily basis
    which puts them with a daily common occurrence to delete more than the
    cumulative threshold aprox +/-1500 files within one boot process that sets
    this problem off, or even if done all at once it still will set it off +/-.
    This all has been discussed in detail within the last few months on this
    forum, but has been known all the way back to shortly after IE6 came out.

    > If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.

    That's not the right answer to give MS consumers now is it - the right answer
    is to be in the more helpful process to have it professionally fixed, or if
    that's not possible because of an outdated OS not worth their time :( then
    tell it as it really is; but don't verbally defeat those who are hands-on
    helping with the problem by inexperiencedly saying it doesn't exist because
    without question - it does; but you insisting it doesn't for the last year
    each time it comes up shows how out of touch you are with the actual issue
    and how little you have tested it.

    Most certainly this is an IE6x 9x bug - and immutable is that statement.

    All the best,
    Rick

    > --
    > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
  17. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:uQqRfj%23gFHA.2700@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    | Rick Chauvin wrote:
    | > PA Bear wrote:
    | >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
    | >> Win98
    | >> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
    | > [...]
    | >
    | > That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
    | > repeatedly
    | > and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
    | > You
    | > don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
    | > say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
    | > incorrect thing.
    |
    | I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
    | have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).
    |
    | Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including
    | some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
    | opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
    | of
    | flaw in IE6 SP1.
    |
    | If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.
    | --
    | ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    | MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security

    I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
    They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    --
    mae
  18. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Didnt mean to open such a can of worms,

    --
    Adaware http://www.lavasoft.de
    spybot http://security.kolla.de
    AVG free antivirus http://www.grisoft.com
    Etrust/Vet/CA.online Antivirus scan
    http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/virusinfo/scan.aspx
    Panda online AntiVirus scan http://www.pandasoftware.com/ActiveScan/
    Catalog of removal tools (1)
    http://www.pandasoftware.com/download/utilities/
    Catalog of removal tools (2)
    http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/newsinfo/collateral.aspx?CID=40387
    Blocking Unwanted Parasites with a Hosts file
    http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
    links provided as a courtesy, read all instructions on the pages before use

    Grateful thanks to the authors and webmasters
    _
    "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:87vze.56204$R21.6868@lakeread06...
    | Alley says...
    |
    | > Speaking only for myself... I DID have problems
    | > upgrading to IE6. Some of my software titles don't want
    | > to work with it.
    |
    | Would you mind telling me what those are? Or what kinds of
    | programs they are?
    |
    |
  19. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    It ain't my machine, PA! I find I can do any size delete using PCMag's HDValet, so long as I don't let it involve the Recycle Bin! Don't go mean-mouthing my machine! Here, try Blanton's script. Copy it into a text file named "BlantonZeros.vbs". Click it to create, say, 2000 zero-byte files, to start. Then, delete them in Explorer. Be prepared to run out of resources & reboot, meaning close all other apps first.

    ........Start of BlantonZeros.vbs...after this line........
    Option Explicit

    Dim oFSO, oFile
    Dim num, confirm

    Set oFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")

    On Error Resume Next

    num = CLng(InputBox("Enter a number (1 - 65534) of zero-byte txt files to " &_
    "create in a subfolder (.\$$$n) off the current folder.",,0))
    If (err.number <> 0) Then
    MsgBox ("Invalid entry. ")
    wscript.quit
    End If

    On Error GoTo 0

    If num = 0 Then
    wscript.quit
    ElseIf (num < 1) Or (num > 65534) Then
    MsgBox "Out of range. "
    wscript.quit
    End if


    Dim oCurrentFolder
    Dim sTempFolderPath

    Set oCurrentFolder=oFSO.GetFolder(".")

    sTempFolderPath = CStr(oCurrentFolder) 'build path
    If Not oCurrentFolder.IsRootFolder Then 'deal with root
    sTempFolderPath = sTempFolderPath & "\"
    End If
    sTempFolderPath = sTempFolderPath & "$$$" & num & "\"


    confirm = MsgBox ("Create " & num & " zero-byte files in " & sTempFolderPath & " ? " & vbCRLF & vbCRLF & _
    "Depending on the amount, this could take several minutes. " & vbCRLF, _
    vbYesNo + vbQuestion _
    )
    If confirm = vbNo Then wscript.quit : End If


    If Not oFSO.FolderExists(sTempFolderPath) Then
    oFSO.CreateFolder(sTempFolderPath)
    Else
    confirm = MsgBox ("Folder already exists. Continue, overwriting existing files? ", vbYesNo + vbQuestion)
    If confirm = vbNo Then wscript.quit : End If
    End If


    Dim Counter
    Dim sPadding

    Counter=1
    While Counter <= num

    sPadding = String(5-Len(Counter),"0")

    Set oFile = oFSO.CreateTextFile(sTempFolderPath & sPadding & CStr(Counter), true)
    oFile.Close

    Counter=Counter+1
    Wend

    wscript.quit
    ........End of it.................

    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message news:uQqRfj%23gFHA.2700@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    | Rick Chauvin wrote:
    | > PA Bear wrote:
    | >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very small number of
    | >> Win98
    | >> users in earlier versions of IE6 only. Not a problem now.
    | > [...]
    | >
    | > That is totally not true and frankly you PAB have been told that
    | > repeatedly
    | > and has been proven time and time again by your own MVP and Tech peers.
    | > You
    | > don't even run 9x to know or have any experience with this subject to even
    | > say that but for whatever reason you occasionally keep saying the same
    | > incorrect thing.
    |
    | I /do/ run a Win98SE box, Rick, and have /not/ encountered the problem nor
    | have any of my customers who are also running Win98(SE).
    |
    | Yes, it's true that a very small (and quite vocal) number of you, including
    | some MVPs, /do/ have the problem with IE6 SP1 installed. My personal
    | opinion is that the problem is machine-specific and not caused by some sort
    | of
    | flaw in IE6 SP1.
    |
    | If you have the problem, simply uninstall IE6.
    | --
    | ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    | MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
    |
  20. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested this? Try
    deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously, with IE6 SP1
    installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the end of the
    deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and see if you
    experience a freeze then.
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm

    "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
    They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    --
    mae
  21. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Exactly. You can test it as I said by making a copy of a directory with
    thousands of files, and then try deleting that copy....and wait....and
    wait....

    glee wrote:
    > Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested
    > this? Try deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer
    simultaneously,
    > with IE6 SP1 installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes
    at
    > the end of the deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle
    > Bin, and see if you experience a freeze then.
    > --
    > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    > "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    > Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    > However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
    > They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    > --
    > mae
  22. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Wow....why so hostile on this subject, Bear??
    Have you actually recently tested the issue with IE6 SP1 on Win98SE, deleting *at
    least* 1500 files in Windows Explorer simultaneously? I have, on a number of
    systems with totally different hardware and software, and they all will invariably
    experience the issue described. A number of others have also tested it, including
    most recently Bill Blanton, who did not think the issue existed until he actually
    tested it as I described.

    I for one do not appreciate or deserve being called a Moral Scold, and do not
    understand why such a comment is inserted in this thread; nor is it true that "the
    problem persists for only a very small (yet quite vocal) number" of users. The
    problem is *noticed* by only a small number of users, as the overwhelming majority
    of Win98SE users never delete that quantity of files in one shot.

    I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of this entire issue.
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


    "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:uDqDwi%23gFHA.3544@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    > Inline:
    >
    > Peabody wrote:
    > > PA Bear says...
    > >
    > >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very
    > >> small number of Win98 users in earlier versions of IE6
    > >> only. Not a problem now.
    > >
    > > Well, in case it should affect me for some reason (my luck
    > > tends to run that way), is there a safe-haven number of
    > > deletes that never did cause a problem for anyone. For
    > > example, would deleting, say, 254 files at a time always
    > > have been safe?
    > >
    > > And, is there a MS KB article on this problem?
    >
    > Not to my knowledge, no. The problem persists for only a very small (yet
    > quite vocal) number of Win98(SE) users who've installed IE6 SP1. As an
    > overwhelming majority of Win98(SE) users do /not/ have the problem, it's my
    > belief that any persisting problems are machine- or installation-specific
    > and not due to some flaw in IE6 SP1. YMMV, as the Moral Scolds here are
    > more than happy to tell you.
    >
    > >> IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows
    > >> Update.
    > >
    > > But not if downloaded in full and installed offline? Well
    > > that's interesting, and good to know. What I'm probably
    > > going to do is Ghost the C partition right before doing
    > > the upgrade, just as an added precaution.
    >
    > /If/ you choose to keep your previous installation of IE available when
    > installing via a separate download/offline, IE6 will be uninstallable.
    >
    > Remember to check in at Windows Update after installing, no matter how you
    > install it.
    >
    > > Do you think it would be good to uninstall Sun Java before,
    > > and reinstall it after? Hopefully that wouldn't be
    > > necessary. Anything else like that?
    >
    > Nah.
    >
    > >> To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything
    > >> (including Windows Updates), your anti-virus application
    > >> should be disabled and all other running processes
    > >> closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
    > >> the install.
    > >
    > > Nothing running except Explorer and Systray, and of course
    > > IE. I may even turn off KB891711. :-)
    >
    > If you have the re-released version of 891711 installed, don't worry about
    > it. (Systray isn't really needed either.)
    >
    > > And I need to reset Security to Medium so that cookies get
    > > turned on, and turn off Hosts, and clean out TIP and Temp,
    > > and re-enable HTA. Damn, I better write all this down.
    >
    > Huh? I think you're making a mountain out of a very small molehill myself
    > but you might want to check out this page my MVP "Majik":
    >
    > Preparing to Install a Major Programs (Especially Internet Explorer)
    > http://www.mindspring.com/~oe_oh/preparing_to_install_internet_ex.htm
    >
    > > Thanks for everybody's comments. I hate to be such a
    > > Luddite on these upgrades, but I've been stung before and am
    > > more than a bit gunshy. I'm still resisting on DirectX 9.
    >
    > Now /there/ I'd agree with you!
    > --
    > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    > MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
    >
  23. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    As long as you install IE6 SP1 while all other apps are closed, as described on
    Majik's web page (as linked by Robear elsewhere in this thread), you should not
    experience any downside, and should not have any problems. You system will also be
    more secure....at least, as secure as one can hope using Win98 with any version of
    IE. ;-)
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


    "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:nxmze.55918$R21.21499@lakeread06...
    > Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    > IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    > have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    > deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
    >
    >
  24. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Just to note: It was 98 "First edition." here. On the only two machines
    I tested (one "real", one virtual) I was able to produce the bug. It
    is quite unusual to have to delete that many files, though I imagine
    some people have that many in %temp%, until they learn that it has
    to be cleaned out once in a while.


    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message news:e6a57XChFHA.3936@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > Wow....why so hostile on this subject, Bear??
    > Have you actually recently tested the issue with IE6 SP1 on Win98SE, deleting *at
    > least* 1500 files in Windows Explorer simultaneously? I have, on a number of
    > systems with totally different hardware and software, and they all will invariably
    > experience the issue described. A number of others have also tested it, including
    > most recently Bill Blanton, who did not think the issue existed until he actually
    > tested it as I described.
    >
    > I for one do not appreciate or deserve being called a Moral Scold, and do not
    > understand why such a comment is inserted in this thread; nor is it true that "the
    > problem persists for only a very small (yet quite vocal) number" of users. The
    > problem is *noticed* by only a small number of users, as the overwhelming majority
    > of Win98SE users never delete that quantity of files in one shot.
    >
    > I must respectfully disagree with your assessment of this entire issue.
    > --
    > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    >
    > "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:uDqDwi%23gFHA.3544@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    >> Inline:
    >>
    >> Peabody wrote:
    >> > PA Bear says...
    >> >
    >> >> The bug to which you refer was encountered by a very
    >> >> small number of Win98 users in earlier versions of IE6
    >> >> only. Not a problem now.
    >> >
    >> > Well, in case it should affect me for some reason (my luck
    >> > tends to run that way), is there a safe-haven number of
    >> > deletes that never did cause a problem for anyone. For
    >> > example, would deleting, say, 254 files at a time always
    >> > have been safe?
    >> >
    >> > And, is there a MS KB article on this problem?
    >>
    >> Not to my knowledge, no. The problem persists for only a very small (yet
    >> quite vocal) number of Win98(SE) users who've installed IE6 SP1. As an
    >> overwhelming majority of Win98(SE) users do /not/ have the problem, it's my
    >> belief that any persisting problems are machine- or installation-specific
    >> and not due to some flaw in IE6 SP1. YMMV, as the Moral Scolds here are
    >> more than happy to tell you.
    >>
    >> >> IE6 SP1 is fully uninstallable if installed via Windows
    >> >> Update.
    >> >
    >> > But not if downloaded in full and installed offline? Well
    >> > that's interesting, and good to know. What I'm probably
    >> > going to do is Ghost the C partition right before doing
    >> > the upgrade, just as an added precaution.
    >>
    >> /If/ you choose to keep your previous installation of IE available when
    >> installing via a separate download/offline, IE6 will be uninstallable.
    >>
    >> Remember to check in at Windows Update after installing, no matter how you
    >> install it.
    >>
    >> > Do you think it would be good to uninstall Sun Java before,
    >> > and reinstall it after? Hopefully that wouldn't be
    >> > necessary. Anything else like that?
    >>
    >> Nah.
    >>
    >> >> To assure a clean, troublefree install of anything
    >> >> (including Windows Updates), your anti-virus application
    >> >> should be disabled and all other running processes
    >> >> closed (e.g., IE, mail client, Office) before beginning
    >> >> the install.
    >> >
    >> > Nothing running except Explorer and Systray, and of course
    >> > IE. I may even turn off KB891711. :-)
    >>
    >> If you have the re-released version of 891711 installed, don't worry about
    >> it. (Systray isn't really needed either.)
    >>
    >> > And I need to reset Security to Medium so that cookies get
    >> > turned on, and turn off Hosts, and clean out TIP and Temp,
    >> > and re-enable HTA. Damn, I better write all this down.
    >>
    >> Huh? I think you're making a mountain out of a very small molehill myself
    >> but you might want to check out this page my MVP "Majik":
    >>
    >> Preparing to Install a Major Programs (Especially Internet Explorer)
    >> http://www.mindspring.com/~oe_oh/preparing_to_install_internet_ex.htm
    >>
    >> > Thanks for everybody's comments. I hate to be such a
    >> > Luddite on these upgrades, but I've been stung before and am
    >> > more than a bit gunshy. I'm still resisting on DirectX 9.
    >>
    >> Now /there/ I'd agree with you!
    >> --
    >> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    >> MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE) & Security
    >>
    >
  25. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Peabody says...
    >
    >
    >Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    >IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    >have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    >deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?

    I just wanted to report that I managed to upgrade from IE5.5 to IE6
    and it seems to work ok so far. (But still no luck getting UniVoice
    installed. Rats!)

    With respect to the multiple-file-delete problem, I noticed that the
    "old" IE5.5 version of BROWSEUI.DLL is actually dated later than its
    IE6 replacement version, and also later than yet another version
    installed by one of the after-install updates from WinUpdate (I don't
    know which one - I did all six updates at once). Unfortunately, I
    didn't save a copy of the intermediate version, although I assume it's
    somewhere in the IE6 installation download.

    I haven't done enough deletes to test it yet, but will watch for the
    problem.

    Thanks for everybody's help.
  26. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Watch out, Peabody, or Bear will mean-mouth your machine!

    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Peabody" <waybackKILLSPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:RicAe.74540$Fv.25627@lakeread01...
    | Peabody says...
    | >
    | >
    | >Not wanting to jump the gun or anything like that, I'm still running
    | >IE5.5 under 98SE. But if I take the big jump, what problems do I
    | >have to look forward to? I understand that there is a problem
    | >deleting large numbers of files. Anything else?
    |
    | I just wanted to report that I managed to upgrade from IE5.5 to IE6
    | and it seems to work ok so far. (But still no luck getting UniVoice
    | installed. Rats!)
    |
    | With respect to the multiple-file-delete problem, I noticed that the
    | "old" IE5.5 version of BROWSEUI.DLL is actually dated later than its
    | IE6 replacement version, and also later than yet another version
    | installed by one of the after-install updates from WinUpdate (I don't
    | know which one - I did all six updates at once). Unfortunately, I
    | didn't save a copy of the intermediate version, although I assume it's
    | somewhere in the IE6 installation download.
    |
    | I haven't done enough deletes to test it yet, but will watch for the
    | problem.
    |
    | Thanks for everybody's help.
    |
    |
  27. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    I just use normally.
    Copy all my CD info to drive before burning, then delete. (600MB-/+)
    I could check them to see the numbers.
    I know once my tif's were over 25,000 files.
    Remember this because my history wasn't saving properly.
    I never use RB except for small files.
    (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
    Why some have the problem and some don't ?
    Maybe similar to the update this year-
    that caused no problem for some but did for others.
    --
    mae

    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:Ob1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested
    this? Try
    | deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously, with
    IE6 SP1
    | installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the end of
    the
    | deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and see
    if you
    | experience a freeze then.
    | --
    | Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    | http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    |
    | "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    | news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    | I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    | Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    | However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
    | They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    | --
    | mae
    |
    |
    |
  28. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    news:OrpdEAbhFHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    > I just use normally.
    > Copy all my CD info to drive before burning, then delete. (600MB-/+)

    The size of the deletion in MB does not seem to be part of the issue....it is the
    *number* of files being deleted simultaneously.

    > I could check them to see the numbers.
    > I know once my tif's were over 25,000 files.
    > Remember this because my history wasn't saving properly.

    Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting the contents
    of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools menu> Internet
    Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow, perhaps by not doing
    the deletion in one bite. Something to look into, for sure.

    > I never use RB except for small files.
    > (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)

    Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)

    > Why some have the problem and some don't ?
    > Maybe similar to the update this year-
    > that caused no problem for some but did for others.

    Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on a regular
    basis. :-o
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


    > "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    > news:Ob1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    > | Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested
    > this? Try
    > | deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously, with
    > IE6 SP1
    > | installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the end of
    > the
    > | deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and see
    > if you
    > | experience a freeze then.
    > | --
    > | Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > | http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    > |
    > | "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    > | news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    > | I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    > | Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    > | However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
    > | They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    > | --
    > | mae
    > |
    > |
    > |
    >
  29. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    glee wrote:
    > "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:OrpdEAbhFHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    >> I just use normally.
    >> Copy all my CD info to drive before burning, then delete. (600MB-/+)
    >
    > The size of the deletion in MB does not seem to be part of the issue....it
    is
    > the *number* of files being deleted simultaneously.
    >
    >> I could check them to see the numbers.
    >> I know once my tif's were over 25,000 files.
    >> Remember this because my history wasn't saving properly.
    >
    > Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting
    the
    > contents of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools
    menu>
    > Internet Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow,
    > perhaps by not doing the deletion in one bite. Something to look into,
    for
    > sure.

    I think so. I'd almost bet on it.
    Let mae try doing that in Windows Explorer, and she'll get a different
    result - I'm pretty sure.

    >> I never use RB except for small files.
    >> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
    >
    > Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)
    >
    >> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
    >> Maybe similar to the update this year-
    >> that caused no problem for some but did for others.
    >
    > Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on a
    > regular basis. :-o
    > --
    > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    >
    >> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    >> news:Ob1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    >>> Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you tested
    >> this? Try
    >>> deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously, with
    >> IE6 SP1
    >>> installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the end
    of
    >> the
    >>> deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and see
    >> if you
    >>> experience a freeze then.
    >>> --
    >>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    >>> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >>>
    >>> "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    >>> I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    >>> Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    >>> However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
    >>> They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    >>> --
    >>> mae
  30. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Ooops, a word of caution: don't ever delete the TIF in windows explorer (it
    will leave a large, unreferenced, index file in IE), but rather, try
    deleting a COPY of the TIF (or something like that) in Windows Explorer.

    Bill in Co. wrote:
    > glee wrote:
    >> "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    >> news:OrpdEAbhFHA.3608@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
    >>> I just use normally.
    >>> Copy all my CD info to drive before burning, then delete. (600MB-/+)
    >>
    >> The size of the deletion in MB does not seem to be part of the
    issue....it is
    >> the *number* of files being deleted simultaneously.
    >>
    >>> I could check them to see the numbers.
    >>> I know once my tif's were over 25,000 files.
    >>> Remember this because my history wasn't saving properly.
    >>
    >> Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting
    the
    >> contents of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools
    menu>
    >> Internet Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow,
    >> perhaps by not doing the deletion in one bite. Something to look into,
    for
    >> sure.
    >
    > I think so. I'd almost bet on it.
    > Let mae try doing that in Windows Explorer, and she'll get a different
    > result - I'm pretty sure.
    >
    >>> I never use RB except for small files.
    >>> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
    >>
    >> Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)
    >>
    >>> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
    >>> Maybe similar to the update this year-
    >>> that caused no problem for some but did for others.
    >>
    >> Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on a
    >> regular basis. :-o
    >> --
    >> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    >> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >>
    >>
    >>> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:Ob1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    >>>> Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you
    tested
    >>>> this? Try deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer
    >>>> simultaneously, with IE6 SP1 installed on Win98SE, and see if the
    Explorer
    >>>> window freezes at the end of the deletion. If not, empty the files at
    >>>> once from the Recycle Bin, and see if you experience a freeze then.
    >>>> --
    >>>> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    >>>> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >>>>
    >>>> "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    >>>> I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    >>>> Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    >>>> However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
    >>>> They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    >>>> --
    >>>> mae
  31. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    glee wrote:

    [...]

    > Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting
    > the contents of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through
    > Tools menu> Internet Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the
    > issue somehow, perhaps by not doing the deletion in one bite. Something
    > to look into, for sure.

    I never noticed using that TIF delete button to set if off either, however
    I never use that way though - I'll keep an eye on that too.

    Today interestingly I noticed that when I did a Start> Find> FilesFolders
    search while I was renaming a folder when the search was done the hang was
    set off. We know that a rename will do it after the fact though and that
    was always confirmed too, but this was the first time I noticed a 'Find'
    set it off..

    ...just a tidbit and thought to mention it.

    Rick

    >
    >> I never use RB except for small files.
    >> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
    >
    > Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)
    >
    >> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
    >> Maybe similar to the update this year-
    >> that caused no problem for some but did for others.
    >
    > Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on
    > a regular basis. :-o
    > --
    > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >
    >
    >> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    >> news:Ob1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    >> | Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you
    >> | tested
    >> this? Try
    >> | deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer simultaneously,
    >> | with
    >> IE6 SP1
    >> | installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at the
    >> | end of
    >> the
    >> | deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin, and
    >> | see
    >> if you
    >> | experience a freeze then.
    >> | --
    >> | Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    >> | http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    >> |
    >> | "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    >> | news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    >> | I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    >> | Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    >> | However, I read KB articles where this and similar was mentioned.
    >> | They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    >> | --
    >> | mae
  32. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:ON5AT3bhFHA.2372@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    ....snip
    |
    | Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when
    deleting the contents
    | of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools menu>
    Internet
    | Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow, perhaps
    by not doing
    | the deletion in one bite. Something to look into, for sure.
    |

    It's also true that at least one 3rd party app can avoid the problem.
    PCMag's HDValet can delete files 3 ways: oblivion, Recycle Bin, own
    holding folder. ONLY when it involves the Recycle Bin will it cause that
    mayhem-- even after 10,000 files!
  33. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    After a proper Internet Options delete, TIFs of 18,199 files in 13
    folders became 6 files in 3 folders. But it does not appear to have
    triggered the problem.


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Rick Chauvin" <justask@nospamz.com> wrote in message
    news:%23r78oSihFHA.2372@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
    | glee wrote:
    |
    | [...]
    |
    | > Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when
    deleting
    | > the contents of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done
    through
    | > Tools menu> Internet Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the
    | > issue somehow, perhaps by not doing the deletion in one bite.
    Something
    | > to look into, for sure.
    |
    | I never noticed using that TIF delete button to set if off either,
    however
    | I never use that way though - I'll keep an eye on that too.
    |
    | Today interestingly I noticed that when I did a Start> Find>
    FilesFolders
    | search while I was renaming a folder when the search was done the hang
    was
    | set off. We know that a rename will do it after the fact though and
    that
    | was always confirmed too, but this was the first time I noticed a
    'Find'
    | set it off..
    |
    | ..just a tidbit and thought to mention it.
    |
    | Rick
    |
    | >
    | >> I never use RB except for small files.
    | >> (I thought it had limitations and saw no need to delete twice)
    | >
    | > Same here.....I usually Shift+Delete to bypass the Bin, myself. :-)
    | >
    | >> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
    | >> Maybe similar to the update this year-
    | >> that caused no problem for some but did for others.
    | >
    | > Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse,
    on
    | > a regular basis. :-o
    | > --
    | > Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    | > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    | >
    | >
    | >> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    | >> news:Ob1YUOChFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
    | >> | Hi mae....What did you consider to be "large" deletions, when you
    | >> | tested
    | >> this? Try
    | >> | deleting at least 1500 files from Windows Explorer
    simultaneously,
    | >> | with
    | >> IE6 SP1
    | >> | installed on Win98SE, and see if the Explorer window freezes at
    the
    | >> | end of
    | >> the
    | >> | deletion. If not, empty the files at once from the Recycle Bin,
    and
    | >> | see
    | >> if you
    | >> | experience a freeze then.
    | >> | --
    | >> | Glen Ventura, MS MVP Shell/User, A+
    | >> | http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
    | >> |
    | >> | "mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message
    | >> | news:%23oHx3CBhFHA.576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
    | >> | I have never had it on a 98 and 98se either.
    | >> | Still using 98 with orig. install and have done large deletes.
    | >> | However, I read KB articles where this and similar was
    mentioned.
    | >> | They did not apply to me at the time so didnot save them all.
    | >> | --
    | >> | mae
    |
    |
  34. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:09:59 -0400, "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com>
    >"mae" <agrannie@notemail.msn.com> wrote in message

    Ahhh.... I finally found this thread!!

    >The size of the deletion in MB does not seem to be part of the issue....it is the
    >*number* of files being deleted simultaneously.

    Yep, that's my mileage too.

    >Interesting point....I don't recall ever seeing the issue when deleting the contents
    >of the TIF folders, *when* the deletion was done through Tools menu> Internet
    >Options. I wonder if that method bypasses the issue somehow

    I'm sure it does, if it's an Explorer shell issue - as is almost
    certainly the case, given that using IE 5.5 SP2 versions of
    BrowseUI.dll and BrowseLC.dll fixes it.

    Similarly, the command line is immune, and *much* faster. Even in XP,
    which doesn't have the bug, I've taken to spawning a Cmd prompt from
    which to do bulk deletes or renames. When there's no bulk clusters to
    copy, the extra per-file overhead imposed by "rich" Explorer exceeds
    that of what you are actually trying to do.

    >> Why some have the problem and some don't ?
    >> Maybe similar to the update this year-
    >> that caused no problem for some but did for others.

    >Or, maybe only a few are actually deleting over 1500 files en masse, on a regular
    >basis. :-o

    Or maybe they don't realize what the problem is. Most folks will just
    shrug, put it down to some Windows bug ("everyone knows Windows is
    buggy, right?") and hit the Reset button. Bad exit, secondary file
    damage made worse by "kill, bury, deny" auto-Scandisk defaults, etc.

    Eventually the prophecy that "everyone knows Windows is buggy so you
    have to format and re-install every six months" is fullfilled.

    I see PA Bear is still asserting that this is "rare" and that IE 6 SP1
    fixes it. Bollocks on both counts, I'm afraid:
    - IE 6 SP1 is just as prone to this as IE 6 SP0
    - the problem is common, perhaps inevitable
    - it's not limited to FAT16, certain hardware, multiple volumes etc.
    - it even affects Safe mode, so it's not underfootware
    - it's present where malware has been excluded

    I started testing and logging all Win9x systems for this bug, for a
    few months now. Just about every such system was affected, and these
    are both "my" systems (i.e. set up my way) and arbitrary systems (i.e.
    set up in an arbitrary or all-default ways, including freshly so).

    I don't mind if folks don't have time to test this stuff, but I don't
    like to see assertions made which are contrary to what many of us (who
    have tested this at some length) have observed.


    >-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
    Reality is that which, when you stop believing
    in it, does not go away (PKD)
    >-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
  35. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:21:13 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote:
    >"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message

    >It's also true that at least one 3rd party app can avoid the problem.
    >PCMag's HDValet can delete files 3 ways: oblivion, Recycle Bin, own
    >holding folder. ONLY when it involves the Recycle Bin will it cause that
    >mayhem-- even after 10,000 files!

    Maybe we can help pathetic Explorer.exe by adding something like...

    "File Folder", add new action
    Del = DelTree.exe "%1"

    "*", add new action
    Del = C:\Command.com /C Del "%1"

    ....as a way of passing these basic functions to a compitent handler?
    Oh, the irony, that it should come to this.

    NB: The above has NOT been tested - do NOT use as-is!


    >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
    I'm *not* indignant!
    >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
  36. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote
    in message news:k217d153cdn7ghhupbrfbdovh33uh50o1c@4ax.com...
    | On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:21:13 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote:
    | >"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    |
    | >It's also true that at least one 3rd party app can avoid the problem.
    | >PCMag's HDValet can delete files 3 ways: oblivion, Recycle Bin, own
    | >holding folder. ONLY when it involves the Recycle Bin will it cause
    that
    | >mayhem-- even after 10,000 files!
    |
    | Maybe we can help pathetic Explorer.exe by adding something like...
    |
    | "File Folder", add new action
    | Del = DelTree.exe "%1"
    |
    | "*", add new action
    | Del = C:\Command.com /C Del "%1"
    |
    | ...as a way of passing these basic functions to a compitent handler?
    | Oh, the irony, that it should come to this.

    Yes, ironic & sad, that Windows, meant to be DOS's superior, took a
    horrible backstep with regard to delete of large numbers of files.

    |
    | NB: The above has NOT been tested - do NOT use as-is!

    I hesitate to test it. Can it be made to execute a full .bat or a .vbs?
    Then, a warning/confirmation could be added to prevent accidents. I
    wonder whether a .vbs would work for it as well as DOS?

    |
    |
    | >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
    | I'm *not* indignant!
    | >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - -
  37. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Actually I have to thank PABear for mentioning again that he has never seen
    the problem yet, and because of that it has motivated me to quickly throw
    together a webpage that talks about the problem again.

    I know if PABear was shown what to do that he would straight forward see
    the problem since it's so easy to do and so prevalent of a problem, and
    since he is an active member of the MVP community and especially since he
    is an MS MVP of Internet Explorer then by all means and all the more
    reasons why he should be shown the problem. Robear has connections to the
    'people in the know' and technicians I'm sure that could be a help to shine
    the light onto this subject for the benefit of everyone that run's 9x - to
    finally solve this problem.

    Besides the other links that outline this anomaly
    http://cquirke.mvps.org/bexp1.htm
    &
    http://www.frankprovo.com/win98ie6filesproblem.htm

    ...and now I offer my little humble brief write-up about it to try and help
    the process along to get fixed. thanks

    http://www.ptcnh.net/~rdchauvin/W98xIE6xBug.htm

    Rick
  38. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    Well said, Chauvin! I will bring it to PA's attention, soon as he awakes
    of his latest hibernation!


    --
    Thanks or Good Luck,
    There may be humor in this post, and,
    Naturally, you will not sue,
    should things get worse after this,
    PCR
    pcrrcp@netzero.net
    "Rick Chauvin" <justask@nospamz.com> wrote in message
    news:Ov3BOtxhFHA.2472@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
    | Actually I have to thank PABear for mentioning again that he has never
    seen
    | the problem yet, and because of that it has motivated me to quickly
    throw
    | together a webpage that talks about the problem again.
    |
    | I know if PABear was shown what to do that he would straight forward
    see
    | the problem since it's so easy to do and so prevalent of a problem,
    and
    | since he is an active member of the MVP community and especially since
    he
    | is an MS MVP of Internet Explorer then by all means and all the more
    | reasons why he should be shown the problem. Robear has connections to
    the
    | 'people in the know' and technicians I'm sure that could be a help to
    shine
    | the light onto this subject for the benefit of everyone that run's
    9x - to
    | finally solve this problem.
    |
    | Besides the other links that outline this anomaly
    | http://cquirke.mvps.org/bexp1.htm
    | &
    | http://www.frankprovo.com/win98ie6filesproblem.htm
    |
    | ..and now I offer my little humble brief write-up about it to try and
    help
    | the process along to get fixed. thanks
    |
    | http://www.ptcnh.net/~rdchauvin/W98xIE6xBug.htm
    |
    | Rick
    |
    |
    |
    |
    |
    |
    |
  39. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:13:20 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote:
    >"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote

    >| Maybe we can help pathetic Explorer.exe by adding something like...

    >| "File Folder", add new action
    >| Del = DelTree.exe "%1"

    >| "*", add new action
    >| Del = C:\Command.com /C Del "%1"

    >| ...as a way of passing these basic functions to a compitent handler?
    >| Oh, the irony, that it should come to this.

    >Yes, ironic & sad, that Windows, meant to be DOS's superior, took a
    >horrible backstep with regard to delete of large numbers of files.

    >| NB: The above has NOT been tested - do NOT use as-is!

    >I hesitate to test it. Can it be made to execute a full .bat or a .vbs?

    Yes, I don't see why not... I'd use batch rather than .vbs as that
    avoids a dependency on WSH (which I suppress or disable)

    >Then, a warning/confirmation could be added to prevent accidents. I
    >wonder whether a .vbs would work for it as well as DOS?

    Remember CScript.exe vs. WScript.exe there, if you want "less Windows"
    (e.g. if the bug applies in WScript.exe)

    There are also various parameters (use /? to read 'em) and syntax
    tricks (e.g. ?*.* instead of *.*) that modify the warnings you (don't)
    get. I've avoided those in the off-the-cuff guessware examples,
    because I wanted those warnings to remain.

    Also, there's no Recycled Bin fallback with these. If you kill
    something with these, they stay dead.


    >------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
    Forget http://cquirke.blogspot.com and check out a
    better one at http://topicdrift.blogspot.com instead!
    >------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
  40. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion (More info?)

    "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote
    in message news:grp8d1dbu00v5ntgtv3l707g4gjj5dlodn@4ax.com...
    | On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:13:20 -0400, "PCR" <pcrrcp@netzero.net> wrote:
    | >"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org>
    wrote
    |
    | >| Maybe we can help pathetic Explorer.exe by adding something like...
    |
    | >| "File Folder", add new action
    | >| Del = DelTree.exe "%1"
    |
    | >| "*", add new action
    | >| Del = C:\Command.com /C Del "%1"
    |
    | >| ...as a way of passing these basic functions to a compitent
    handler?
    | >| Oh, the irony, that it should come to this.
    |
    | >Yes, ironic & sad, that Windows, meant to be DOS's superior, took a
    | >horrible backstep with regard to delete of large numbers of files.
    |
    | >| NB: The above has NOT been tested - do NOT use as-is!
    |
    | >I hesitate to test it. Can it be made to execute a full .bat or a
    ..vbs?
    |
    | Yes, I don't see why not... I'd use batch rather than .vbs as that
    | avoids a dependency on WSH (which I suppress or disable)
    |
    | >Then, a warning/confirmation could be added to prevent accidents. I
    | >wonder whether a .vbs would work for it as well as DOS?
    |
    | Remember CScript.exe vs. WScript.exe there, if you want "less Windows"
    | (e.g. if the bug applies in WScript.exe)
    |
    | There are also various parameters (use /? to read 'em) and syntax
    | tricks (e.g. ?*.* instead of *.*) that modify the warnings you (don't)
    | get. I've avoided those in the off-the-cuff guessware examples,
    | because I wanted those warnings to remain.
    |
    | Also, there's no Recycled Bin fallback with these. If you kill
    | something with these, they stay dead.

    Thanks for these tips, cquirke. I'm not quite prepared to attempt it.
    Also, much better would be a fix to those .dll's by MS.

    |
    |
    |
    | >------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
    | Forget http://cquirke.blogspot.com and check out a
    | better one at http://topicdrift.blogspot.com instead!
    | >------------------------ ---- --- -- - - - -
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