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A340 accident in Toronto

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August 3, 2005 1:57:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Just switched on TV breaking news, doesn't look good, lot of smoke, Air
France jet apparently.

Hope all survived.

Colin

More about : a340 accident toronto

Anonymous
August 3, 2005 2:50:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:57:59 +0100, "Colin"
<Colin@NONEOFTHATSPAMSTUFFkatana1000.plus.com> wrote:

>Just switched on TV breaking news, doesn't look good, lot of smoke, Air
>France jet apparently.
>
>Hope all survived.
>
>Colin
>


Apparently no major injuries.....



Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
please.....


Bob


Let the flames begin....
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 2:50:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Capt Bob wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:57:59 +0100, "Colin"
> <Colin@NONEOFTHATSPAMSTUFFkatana1000.plus.com> wrote:
> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
> please.....

You just inspired me to play AeroBiz. Was wondering what to do tonight
with those storms :) 
August 3, 2005 3:00:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Capt Bob"
> anything but Airbust Aircraft
> please.....


Boy, you really know how to start a flame war...

:-)



Dallas
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 3:23:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 23:00:12 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>
>"Capt Bob"
>> anything but Airbust Aircraft
>> please.....
>
>
>Boy, you really know how to start a flame war...
>
>:-)
>
>
>
>Dallas
>

Sure do :) 

If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going..... ;) 
August 3, 2005 5:06:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Tom|420 wrote:

> Capt Bob wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:57:59 +0100, "Colin"
>> <Colin@NONEOFTHATSPAMSTUFFkatana1000.plus.com> wrote:
>> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
>> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
>> please.....
>
>
> You just inspired me to play AeroBiz. Was wondering what to do tonight
> with those storms :) 

Has the potential to exceed the pedal usage thread.

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
August 3, 2005 5:38:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

>>Just switched on TV breaking news, doesn't look good, lot of smoke, Air
>>France jet apparently.
>>
>>Hope all survived.
>>
>>Colin
>>
>
>
> Apparently no major injuries.....
>
>
>
> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
> please.....
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> Let the flames begin....

Isn't this the first major accident with an A340? Glad to hear nobody was
killed.

No need for flames, Bob ... patriotism doesn't run that deep for me :)  I've
flown with Airbus and Boeing, wouldn't hesitate to fly on either again,
competition is good, only the customer can win.

Cheers.

Colin
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 5:57:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Capt Bob" <nospam@nospam.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:71uve1dl11hdv5etk77nhgn1bb2rh9s0id@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:57:59 +0100, "Colin"
> <Colin@NONEOFTHATSPAMSTUFFkatana1000.plus.com> wrote:
>
>>Just switched on TV breaking news, doesn't look good, lot of smoke, Air
>>France jet apparently.
>>
>>Hope all survived.
>>
>>Colin
>>
>
>
> Apparently no major injuries.....
>
>
>
> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
> please.....
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> Let the flames begin....

Congratulations!! You're the winner of today's "Most Stupid Statement
Contest" !!
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 6:15:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> Sure do :) 
>
> If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going..... ;) 
>

Why are americans so against European companies? (airbus in this case)

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
August 3, 2005 6:15:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 02:15:50 +0100, "Adam Webb"
<adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

>Why are americans so against European companies? (airbus in this case)

It's an ego protection reaction. Just look at their reaction to a
Chinese company trying to buy one of their big oil companies.
August 3, 2005 7:41:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Adam Webb"
> Why are americans so against European companies? (airbus in this case)

I think I speak for the overwhelming vast majority of Americans, we're not.



Dallas
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 1:14:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Adam Webb" <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qsSdnTR8ceuKgG3fRVnytQ@eclipse.net.uk...
>> Sure do :) 
>>
>> If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going..... ;) 
>>
>
> Why are americans so against European companies? (airbus in this case)
>
> --
> From Overlag - Adam Webb
>

The perception for many over here in the USA (right, wrong or
indifferent...) is that Airbus is not an independent company but an
extension of the Governments of the countries involved in Airbus.

To them, any success Airbus has against Boeing is a victory for "that creepy
little bunch of countries with no borders, one government and where they all
use that "Urine Dollar" money..." over the Good Old USofA.

Unfortunately, most people over here have never taken the time to consider
just how many different countries contributed to the building of their GM,
Ford or Chrysler.

And before anyone decides to torch me to a crisp... You should know that I
was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan where General Motors Corp put food
on our table and a roof over our heads for 33 years (Dad worked there...) so
I have no axe to grind with American Industry.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL / Sim Pilot Too
Chandler, AZ
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 2:13:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Colin" <Colin@NONEOFTHATSPAMSTUFFkatana1000.plus.com> wrote in message
news:42f01219$0$14680$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
>
>>>Just switched on TV breaking news, doesn't look good, lot of smoke, Air
>>>France jet apparently.
>>>
>>>Hope all survived.
>>>
>>>Colin
>>>
>>
>>
>> Apparently no major injuries.....
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
>> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
>> please.....
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> Let the flames begin....
>
> Isn't this the first major accident with an A340? Glad to hear nobody was
> killed.
>
> No need for flames, Bob ... patriotism doesn't run that deep for me :) 
> I've flown with Airbus and Boeing, wouldn't hesitate to fly on either
> again, competition is good, only the customer can win.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Colin

Reports from passengers seem to suggest cabin lights went out just before
landing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4740539.stm
Lightning strike? In which case it wouldn't make any difference which type
of aircraft it was

Chris
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 2:13:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 10:13:16 +0100, "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net>
wrote:

>"Colin" <Colin@NONEOFTHATSPAMSTUFFkatana1000.plus.com> wrote in message
>news:42f01219$0$14680$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>>
>>
>>>>Just switched on TV breaking news, doesn't look good, lot of smoke, Air
>>>>France jet apparently.
>>>>
>>>>Hope all survived.
>>>>
>>>>Colin
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently no major injuries.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
>>> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
>>> please.....
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> Let the flames begin....
>>
>> Isn't this the first major accident with an A340? Glad to hear nobody was
>> killed.
>>
>> No need for flames, Bob ... patriotism doesn't run that deep for me :) 
>> I've flown with Airbus and Boeing, wouldn't hesitate to fly on either
>> again, competition is good, only the customer can win.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Colin
>
>Reports from passengers seem to suggest cabin lights went out just before
>landing.
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4740539.stm
>Lightning strike? In which case it wouldn't make any difference which type
>of aircraft it was
>
>Chris
>


Aircraft get hit all the time by Lightning. I never heard of one
having a total electrical failure because of it. Must have not had a
chance to hit alt/ctrl/del quickly enough.......

Bob
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 5:54:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> "Adam Webb"
>> Why are americans so against European companies? (airbus in this case)
>
> I think I speak for the overwhelming vast majority of Americans, we're
> not.
>
> Dallas

good :-)

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 6:05:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

>>Reports from passengers seem to suggest cabin lights went out just before
>>landing.
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4740539.stm
>>Lightning strike? In which case it wouldn't make any difference which type
>>of aircraft it was
>>
>>Chris
>>
>
>
> Aircraft get hit all the time by Lightning. I never heard of one
> having a total electrical failure because of it. Must have not had a
> chance to hit alt/ctrl/del quickly enough.......
>

yes but getting hit just as you touch down would be a problem.

I know my aunt was on a 747 that got hit by lightening in the late 80s. That
plane lost all power for a few moments. But while flying at 15-20'000 on
climbout that isnt so bad. However just as you hit the tarmac and need
reverse thrust and brakes and spoilers etc etc it can become quiet a
problem.

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 6:19:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Adam Webb" <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1dGdnZEGV8qQXG3fRVnysA@eclipse.net.uk...
>>>Reports from passengers seem to suggest cabin lights went out just before
>>>landing.
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4740539.stm
>>>Lightning strike? In which case it wouldn't make any difference which
>>>type
>>>of aircraft it was
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>
>>
>> Aircraft get hit all the time by Lightning. I never heard of one
>> having a total electrical failure because of it. Must have not had a
>> chance to hit alt/ctrl/del quickly enough.......
>>

> yes but getting hit just as you touch down would be a problem.

Indeed and eyewitness accounts are suggesting that could well have happened.

Chris
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 6:45:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Aside from the fact that composite rudders seem to snap of when rudder
pedals are used, is there some specific reasons?
Mike
"Capt Bob" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:71uve1dl11hdv5etk77nhgn1bb2rh9s0id@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:57:59 +0100, "Colin"
> <Colin@NONEOFTHATSPAMSTUFFkatana1000.plus.com> wrote:
>
>>Just switched on TV breaking news, doesn't look good, lot of smoke, Air
>>France jet apparently.
>>
>>Hope all survived.
>>
>>Colin
>>
>
>
> Apparently no major injuries.....
>
>
>
> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
> please.....
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> Let the flames begin....
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 8:03:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Capt Bob <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:


>Aircraft get hit all the time by Lightning. I never heard of one
>having a total electrical failure because of it. Must have not had a
>chance to hit alt/ctrl/del quickly enough.......
>
>Bob

Does an exploding plane constitute total electrical failure?? ;-)

A 707 was hit and brought down by lightning in 1963 near Elkton, Md.
The strike ignited fuel vapors causing the explosion. That's when the
FAA mandated that all planes be equipped with discharge wicks.

<http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_details.cgi?dat...;

-=tom=-
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 12:49:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:14:38 -0700, Jay Beckman wrote:

> The perception for many over here in the USA (right, wrong or
> indifferent...) is that Airbus is not an independent company but an
> extension of the Governments of the countries involved in Airbus.
>
> To them, any success Airbus has against Boeing is a victory for "that creepy
> little bunch of countries with no borders, one government and where they all
> use that "Urine Dollar" money..." over the Good Old USofA.

That's a pretty pathetic attitude for a country that is still considered to
be the most powerful and influential country in the world.
I hope those people still remember how Bell got so big?
And I believe that Boeing is still the number 1 ranking manufacturer of
airliners, despite the fact that they're also spending valuable time and
money on the development of fighterjets and its components.

Okay...I got that off of my chest! :-)

<now to quickly put up my anti-flame net!>


> Unfortunately, most people over here have never taken the time to consider
> just how many different countries contributed to the building of their GM,
> Ford or Chrysler.

Well I'm glad you got a brain, Jay.

I, being a life time fan of the 737 and the 747, have always kind of looked
down on Airbus myself.....until about 5 years ago. It was then that I
realized that the A330 and A340 are actually very big planes and, compared
to their Boeing rivals, have had an extremely good track record.
Very few incidents and accidents, very very modern, and pretty darn
spacious and comfortable.


Besides America.....where's the harm in a little healthy competition?
Are you worried that a bunch of old-fashioned, clog-wearing, cheese-eating,
French Bread-baking, stale beer-drinking Europeans are going to steal your
thunder?
:-)))))

--

Marcel (SAG-21)
(Chance favours the prepared mind.)
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 12:49:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:m4gb7b7ywss.1935wp7luylo4$.dlg@40tude.net...

<SNIP>

> I, being a life time fan of the 737 and the 747, have always kind of
> looked
> down on Airbus myself.....until about 5 years ago. It was then that I
> realized that the A330 and A340 are actually very big planes and, compared
> to their Boeing rivals, have had an extremely good track record.
> Very few incidents and accidents, very very modern, and pretty darn
> spacious and comfortable.
>
>
> Besides America.....where's the harm in a little healthy competition?
> Are you worried that a bunch of old-fashioned, clog-wearing,
> cheese-eating,
> French Bread-baking, stale beer-drinking Europeans are going to steal your
> thunder?
> :-)))))

Marcel,

I'm afraid the concept of competition is quickly going the way of the Dodo
Bird here.

As we get fatter and lazier, our ability to raise "righteous indignation" of
any kind (moral, economic, cultural or national) is quickly beginning to
match our inability to get off the couch.

Instead of making anything better, we just have taken the path of least
resistance and decided that we'll just buy it from where it's cheaper.

Welcome to the USA in the 21st century.

Jay
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:05:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> Aside from the fact that composite rudders seem to snap of when rudder
> pedals are used, is there some specific reasons?

rudder reversals are not recommended on ANY planes are they not???

and that was 1 case wasnt it? and they fixed it.

what about 737s and cargo doors blowing out loads of times before they
relised?

oh and that 747 that had a fuel tank just explode and blow the nose off over
the atlantic?

No aircraft maker is perfect.

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:18:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> That explosion was a result the aircraft being hit by a US Navy missle,
> dontcha know?
>

the one i was thinking about was a electical short from a high voltage
cable, into one of the sensor wires that goes into the tank. The short
caused a spark and well you know the rest :-(

I didnt know of any US navy missles shooting down 747s but that sounds nasty
too!

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1d6fchahrbkc2.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Adam Webb <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> oh and that 747 that had a fuel tank just explode and blow the nose off
>> over
>> the atlantic?
>

> --
> Peter
> This will really get fun now...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:18:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Adam Webb" <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:UIWdnYUiZbw8u2zfRVnyrA@eclipse.net.uk...
>> That explosion was a result the aircraft being hit by a US Navy missle,
>> dontcha know?
>>
>
> the one i was thinking about was a electical short from a high voltage
> cable, into one of the sensor wires that goes into the tank. The short
> caused a spark and well you know the rest :-(
>
> I didnt know of any US navy missles shooting down 747s but that sounds
> nasty too!

Adam,

Peter has a firm grip on one of your legs and is pulling with all his
might...

The "Conspiracy Nuts" here in the USA were conviced (all the way up to Mr.
Pierre Salenger, former Press Secy for President Kennedy) that that 747 was
taken down by a live fire mission gone wrong.

Don't belive everything you read...

;O)

Jay
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:18:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ei3m0bcizo6$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Jay Beckman <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Peter has a firm grip on one of your legs and is pulling with all his
>> might...
>
> What Jay typed...
>
> Go to Google and do a search on "TWA Flight 800 missile" and then be
> prepared for a few days of reading.
>
> --
> Peter

After your done with FLT800, say next March, try moving on to such stellar
subjects as:

- The CIA orchestrated 9/11
- The Apollo moon missions were shot in a studio in Hollywood
- The Roswell Incident
- Andrew Dice Clay is an Alien Love Child (Weekly World News says so...)

See ya in 2147AD...

Jay
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:24:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Yeah, it was just one case. The A340 has had a great safety record
actually.
Mike
"Adam Webb" <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qrudnSdy9LTkvmzfRVnytw@eclipse.net.uk...
>> Aside from the fact that composite rudders seem to snap of when rudder
>> pedals are used, is there some specific reasons?
>
> rudder reversals are not recommended on ANY planes are they not???
>
> and that was 1 case wasnt it? and they fixed it.
>
> what about 737s and cargo doors blowing out loads of times before they
> relised?
>
> oh and that 747 that had a fuel tank just explode and blow the nose off
> over the atlantic?
>
> No aircraft maker is perfect.
>
> --
> From Overlag - Adam Webb
>
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:28:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Yup, that is what the determination was. Ya know it is no wonder more
doesn't happen considering how complex those planes are. My boy and I were
at the Boeing museum in Seattle and they had a 737 you could walk under.
Looking up into the wheel well showed a maze on hydraulic lines. I mean you
don't think about the details until you see them.
Mike
"Adam Webb" <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:UIWdnYUiZbw8u2zfRVnyrA@eclipse.net.uk...
>> That explosion was a result the aircraft being hit by a US Navy missle,
>> dontcha know?
>>
>
> the one i was thinking about was a electical short from a high voltage
> cable, into one of the sensor wires that goes into the tank. The short
> caused a spark and well you know the rest :-(
>
> I didnt know of any US navy missles shooting down 747s but that sounds
> nasty too!
>
> --
> From Overlag - Adam Webb
> "Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1d6fchahrbkc2.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
>> Adam Webb <adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> oh and that 747 that had a fuel tank just explode and blow the nose off
>>> over
>>> the atlantic?
>>
>
>> --
>> Peter
>> This will really get fun now...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
>> News==----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
>> Newsgroups
>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
>> =----
>
>
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 1:59:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

but the moon didnt happen, and a plane didnt hit the pentagon because theres
none of it there aparently, and the hole doesnt match to a size of a 757,
and the engine they found doesnt match 757 engine either...........

.........thats not me thinking that.

1: the hole is perfect size of a 757 fuse
2: the engine parts they found was the APU, which right in the tail of the
plane would have been the last part in the building and probably took the
least force of the whole thing hence it was still noticeable.
3: aluminum MELTS....even turns into a gas thats why theres nothing left of
it....

but thats another subject.

Its really sad how people make up stories.

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb


"Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
news:F_9Ie.236717$Qo.119@fed1read01...
> "Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1ei3m0bcizo6$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
>> Jay Beckman <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter has a firm grip on one of your legs and is pulling with all his
>>> might...
>>
>> What Jay typed...
>>
>> Go to Google and do a search on "TWA Flight 800 missile" and then be
>> prepared for a few days of reading.
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>
> After your done with FLT800, say next March, try moving on to such stellar
> subjects as:
>
> - The CIA orchestrated 9/11
> - The Apollo moon missions were shot in a studio in Hollywood
> - The Roswell Incident
> - Andrew Dice Clay is an Alien Love Child (Weekly World News says so...)
>
> See ya in 2147AD...
>
> Jay
>
August 4, 2005 2:23:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Marcel Kuijper"
> And I believe that Boeing is still the number 1 ranking manufacturer of
> airliners, despite the fact that they're also spending valuable time and
> money on the development of fighterjets and its components.

That statement would have a lot more credibity if Boeing made any
fighterjets. :-)


> Are you worried that a bunch of old-fashioned, clog-wearing,
cheese-eating,
> French Bread-baking, stale beer-drinking Europeans are going to steal your
> thunder?

Again, the overwhelming vast majority of Americans don't have anything
against Airbus, Europe or any of this competition stuff. I suspect Jay was
talking about the 5% of American rednecks that do have that attitude. If I
asked everybody I know about Airbus or Europe the reaction would be
"whatever"... they don't even think about it.

If anything, I see a rise in European pride and an attitude of competition
against the USA which you just exhibited. I find that a bit disturbing.
Over here, we realize the world is now a global economy and we're not in a
contest with Europe.

Mercedes bought Chrysler... over here no one even noticed.

Dallas
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 2:23:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:TtbIe.340$WD.295@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Marcel Kuijper"
>> And I believe that Boeing is still the number 1 ranking manufacturer of
>> airliners, despite the fact that they're also spending valuable time and
>> money on the development of fighterjets and its components.
>
> That statement would have a lot more credibity if Boeing made any
> fighterjets. :-)
>
>
>> Are you worried that a bunch of old-fashioned, clog-wearing,
> cheese-eating,
>> French Bread-baking, stale beer-drinking Europeans are going to steal
>> your
>> thunder?
>
> Again, the overwhelming vast majority of Americans don't have anything
> against Airbus, Europe or any of this competition stuff. I suspect Jay
> was
> talking about the 5% of American rednecks that do have that attitude. If
> I
> asked everybody I know about Airbus or Europe the reaction would be
> "whatever"... they don't even think about it.
>
> If anything, I see a rise in European pride and an attitude of competition
> against the USA which you just exhibited. I find that a bit disturbing.
> Over here, we realize the world is now a global economy and we're not in a
> contest with Europe.
>
> Mercedes bought Chrysler... over here no one even noticed.
>
> Dallas

Except for the XX,000 people who work for Chrysler, the XX,000 people who
work for thc companies that directly supply OEM components, the XX,000 to
possibly XXX,000 people who delpend on the jobs related to Chrysler and it's
suppliers, the XX,000 people who have been laid off, demoted, promoted,
reassigned and/or otherwise had their work worlds destroyed, changed or
altered in some way, the railroads and truckers who deliver the new cars to
dealers, the dealerships themselves, the independent auto repair shops where
people take their Chryslers for service, etc, etc, etc...

Just because it didn't impact your world, doesn't mean it didn't impact a
larger percentage of the rest of the universe..and in ways that I bet you've
never even considered.

Here's a little history lesson you may not have ever heard (maybe you
have...)

As late as the Arab Oil Embargo in the 1970's, if you went around the
greater Detroit area and rounded up 10 people off the street:

- 7 of the 10 worked for Ford, GM or Chrysler directly
- 1 of the remaining 3 worked for a direct supplier to the auto industry
(steering wheels, tires, stampings/machinings, windsheilds, interior
components, etc...)
- 1 of the remaining 2 worked for a sub-supplier or support structure of the
auto industry (plastics, rubber, glass, etc)
- Leaving only 1 out of 10 who held jobs not related to the auto industry.
Of course, many were still impacted at restaurants, bars, stores, etc.

I've no doubt that you could find similar historical perspectives on the
steel industry in Pittsburgh, mining in many areas and I'd bet the rent that
the same applies to Boeing in Seattle.

Jay
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 2:23:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

A quick search on AvSim -
Boeing F-15C Eagle
Last time I looked it was a fighter jet. :) 
Jay Beckman wrote:
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:TtbIe.340$WD.295@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>"Marcel Kuijper"
>>
>>>And I believe that Boeing is still the number 1 ranking manufacturer of
>>>airliners, despite the fact that they're also spending valuable time and
>>>money on the development of fighterjets and its components.
>>
>>That statement would have a lot more credibity if Boeing made any
>>fighterjets. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>>Are you worried that a bunch of old-fashioned, clog-wearing,
>>
>>cheese-eating,
>>
>>>French Bread-baking, stale beer-drinking Europeans are going to steal
>>>your
>>>thunder?
>>
>>Again, the overwhelming vast majority of Americans don't have anything
>>against Airbus, Europe or any of this competition stuff. I suspect Jay
>>was
>>talking about the 5% of American rednecks that do have that attitude. If
>>I
>>asked everybody I know about Airbus or Europe the reaction would be
>>"whatever"... they don't even think about it.
>>
>>If anything, I see a rise in European pride and an attitude of competition
>>against the USA which you just exhibited. I find that a bit disturbing.
>>Over here, we realize the world is now a global economy and we're not in a
>>contest with Europe.
>>
>>Mercedes bought Chrysler... over here no one even noticed.
>>
>>Dallas
>
>
> Except for the XX,000 people who work for Chrysler, the XX,000 people who
> work for thc companies that directly supply OEM components, the XX,000 to
> possibly XXX,000 people who delpend on the jobs related to Chrysler and it's
> suppliers, the XX,000 people who have been laid off, demoted, promoted,
> reassigned and/or otherwise had their work worlds destroyed, changed or
> altered in some way, the railroads and truckers who deliver the new cars to
> dealers, the dealerships themselves, the independent auto repair shops where
> people take their Chryslers for service, etc, etc, etc...
>
> Just because it didn't impact your world, doesn't mean it didn't impact a
> larger percentage of the rest of the universe..and in ways that I bet you've
> never even considered.
>
> Here's a little history lesson you may not have ever heard (maybe you
> have...)
>
> As late as the Arab Oil Embargo in the 1970's, if you went around the
> greater Detroit area and rounded up 10 people off the street:
>
> - 7 of the 10 worked for Ford, GM or Chrysler directly
> - 1 of the remaining 3 worked for a direct supplier to the auto industry
> (steering wheels, tires, stampings/machinings, windsheilds, interior
> components, etc...)
> - 1 of the remaining 2 worked for a sub-supplier or support structure of the
> auto industry (plastics, rubber, glass, etc)
> - Leaving only 1 out of 10 who held jobs not related to the auto industry.
> Of course, many were still impacted at restaurants, bars, stores, etc.
>
> I've no doubt that you could find similar historical perspectives on the
> steel industry in Pittsburgh, mining in many areas and I'd bet the rent that
> the same applies to Boeing in Seattle.
>
> Jay
>
>

--


Life is a toilet bowl...
With regular flushing it stays clean....
Linux user #251744...
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=26885
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 3:37:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

LOL







On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:45:40 GMT, "mikepic" <mikepic@insightbb.com>
wrote:

>Aside from the fact that composite rudders seem to snap of when rudder
>pedals are used, is there some specific reasons?
>Mike
>"Capt Bob" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:71uve1dl11hdv5etk77nhgn1bb2rh9s0id@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:57:59 +0100, "Colin"
>> <Colin@NONEOFTHATSPAMSTUFFkatana1000.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Just switched on TV breaking news, doesn't look good, lot of smoke, Air
>>>France jet apparently.
>>>
>>>Hope all survived.
>>>
>>>Colin
>>>
>>
>>
>> Apparently no major injuries.....
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
>> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
>> please.....
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> Let the flames begin....
>
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 3:40:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:05:01 +0100, "Adam Webb"
<adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

>> Aside from the fact that composite rudders seem to snap of when rudder
>> pedals are used, is there some specific reasons?
>
>rudder reversals are not recommended on ANY planes are they not???
>

I never heard of the tail falling off a commercial jet because the
pilot stepped on the rudder pedals too hard..




>and that was 1 case wasnt it? and they fixed it.
>
>what about 737s and cargo doors blowing out loads of times before they
>relised?


737 Cargo doors/// Huh?




>
>oh and that 747 that had a fuel tank just explode and blow the nose off over
>the atlantic?
>

Many eyewitnesses saw something shooting up from the water towards
that aircraft and there was even a photo of something that looked like
a missile heading up. Funny, they haven't changed a thing in the 747
, and no fuel tank issues before or since that crash.....

Bob
August 4, 2005 4:12:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I only have one question??????

I heard an Airbus Captain state that all the Airbus aircraft, 300's
399's and so on, all had similar cockpit designs. Same radios in the
same places, same autopilot, same instrument T, same controls.

I'm about to go to AVSIM to look at the panels there.

Question?
Is there a simulator panel available that is setup like the actual
cockpit in the Airbus's??
Army helicopters are setup this way, if only because we buy in bulk, and
it does help. Of the Bell 206B's and L's I flew, most were similar but
there was no consideration given to putting the same equipment in the
same places in each aircraft just for the pilot.

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 5:01:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

>>
>>rudder reversals are not recommended on ANY planes are they not???
>>
>
> I never heard of the tail falling off a commercial jet because the
> pilot stepped on the rudder pedals too hard..
>
that is not what happened though.

he did hard rudder one way, and while the plane was still "slipping" he did
a reverse hard rudder. That would cause ALOT more stress than a simple
"pushing the rudder pedals too hard"

I think it took 3 times for it finaly to snap the rudder part of the tail
off. However this "Problem" is now fixed because they now train pilots
better.

Quiet why the pilot was slamming the rudder so hard from one side to the
other I will never know.





About the 747 accident, the info i had read / watched before this thread all
linked to a rewiring of those sensor cables so they wasnt in the same bundle
as any high voltage ones.

However im probably 100% wrong, and from the links ive seen, i can say it
definantly looks like it was shot down by our "friends" that did 911 and
07/07/05. I have to say this is the first "Conspiracy theory" that ive seen
that looks 100% correct in almost every detail.

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 6:36:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akita_77REMOVECAPS@yahoo.Xcom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:y3dIe.63443$gL1.3040@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
> I only have one question??????
>
> I heard an Airbus Captain state that all the Airbus aircraft, 300's 399's
> and so on, all had similar cockpit designs. Same radios in the same
> places, same autopilot, same instrument T, same controls.
>
> I'm about to go to AVSIM to look at the panels there.
>
> Question?
> Is there a simulator panel available that is setup like the actual cockpit
> in the Airbus's??
> Army helicopters are setup this way, if only because we buy in bulk, and
> it does help. Of the Bell 206B's and L's I flew, most were similar but
> there was no consideration given to putting the same equipment in the same
> places in each aircraft just for the pilot.
>
> --
>
> boB,
> SAG 70
>
> U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
> Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

Bob, the "rumours" are - as usual - rumours and therefore not supplying the
whole truth ;-)
But still, there is some truth if you step away from the term "all Airbus".
To sum it up:
- A300 (not fly-by-wire, conventional flight yoke) was equipped with a
conventional as well as a "partial" glass cockpit.
- A310 (not fly-by-wire, conventional flight yoke) was equipped by a quite
advanced glass cockpit, however engine instruments being still of
conventional design.
- from A319 onwards (all fly-by-wire, sidestick controlled, including types
A320, A321, A330, A340, A380) there is quite some overall standardisation,
however due to some differences in system design a few major deviations
exist in the various cockpits. Speaking about the center pedestal layout
there were acutally only very few differences in panel layouts. However - as
usual - airlines do still have some requests for customization and that can
still lead to relocating of a few components.
As a side note to show some benefits (not the major benefits of course) of
standardization:
Our simulator for the A330 could be transformed into a A340 model cockpit
layout in 15 min. by just replacing (kind of plug-and-play type) the
throttle quadrant and on the overhead panel the hydraulics, electric and
airco panel. Then do a software reload and - here you were in a A340!!
--
Oskar Wagner
(retired Captain)

Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes....
August 4, 2005 7:55:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oskar Wagner wrote:

>
> Bob, the "rumours" are - as usual - rumours and therefore not supplying the
> whole truth ;-)
> But still, there is some truth if you step away from the term "all Airbus".

> Our simulator for the A330 could be transformed into a A340 model cockpit
> layout in 15 min. by just replacing (kind of plug-and-play type) the
> throttle quadrant and on the overhead panel the hydraulics, electric and
> airco panel. Then do a software reload and - here you were in a A340!!

That was said by a guy who said he was an Airbus Captain when Fox News
interviewed him while covering the Toronto accident. It sounded too good
to be all true, that every instrument and control were standard. Maybe
he was talking about just the fly by wire Airbus models.

Thanks Oskar
--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
August 4, 2005 8:07:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 01:01:54 +0100, "Adam Webb"
<adam@ajmysecondname.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:


>
>Quiet why the pilot was slamming the rudder so hard from one side to the
>other I will never know.

I read they encountered wake turbulence, and he was over-enthusiastic
in his control inputs.
Anonymous
August 5, 2005 5:53:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

>>>Quiet why the pilot was slamming the rudder so hard from one side to the
>>>other I will never know.
>>
>>I read they encountered wake turbulence, and he was over-enthusiastic
>>in his control inputs.

<news-west.usenet.com>
> retard

and you got anything else to say? we having a grown up convo, not a name
calling session

--
From Overlag - Adam Webb
Anonymous
August 5, 2005 8:13:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Capt Bob wrote:

> Sorry for all the Airbus lovers, but my personal company flight
> aircraft preference says ..... anything but Airbust Aircraft
> please.....

Why? Their safety record isn't worse than anyone else's.



John

--


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
Anonymous
August 5, 2005 8:14:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Jay Beckman wrote:

> The perception for many over here in the USA (right, wrong or
> indifferent...) is that Airbus is not an independent company but an
> extension of the Governments of the countries involved in Airbus.
>
> To them, any success Airbus has against Boeing is a victory for "that creepy
> little bunch of countries with no borders, one government and where they all
> use that "Urine Dollar" money..." over the Good Old USofA.
>
> Unfortunately, most people over here have never taken the time to consider
> just how many different countries contributed to the building of their GM,
> Ford or Chrysler.

....Just for starters.

Thank you.




John

--


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
Anonymous
August 5, 2005 8:17:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Marcel Kuijper wrote:

> Besides America.....where's the harm in a little healthy competition?
> Are you worried that a bunch of old-fashioned, clog-wearing, cheese-eating,
> French Bread-baking, stale beer-drinking Europeans are going to steal your
> thunder?
> :-)))))

Well, who knows, Boeing may have to start offering their planes at the
employee discount, and with low-interest financing, like GM and Ford. ;-)



John

--


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
Anonymous
August 5, 2005 8:26:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Jay Beckman wrote:

> Except for the XX,000 people who work for Chrysler, the XX,000 people who
> work for thc companies that directly supply OEM components, the XX,000 to
> possibly XXX,000 people who delpend on the jobs related to Chrysler and it's
> suppliers... [etc.]

> I've no doubt that you could find similar historical perspectives on the
> steel industry in Pittsburgh, mining in many areas and I'd bet the rent that
> the same applies to Boeing in Seattle.

Okay, but so what? That's life. At one time carriage and buggy makers
ruled the day, and then Henry Ford and his amigos came in and blew them
away. What can you do but adapt?



John

--


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
!