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Zalman 9500 + AS5

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May 5, 2006 3:33:28 AM

OK here I go... I just built a computer and love it except for one thing heat! First off the computer is a AMD X2 4800+ in a A8N32-SLI deluxe motherboard. I have two gigs of corsair XMS memory and dual raptors in raid for os and games and 7800 gtx's KO in SLi. I have the Zalman 9500 on it and I have an ideal temperature of 45-47 degrees celcius and 53-56 degrees celcius under load. First off my question/problem is do I have too much artic silver 5 on it? Can someone tell me exactly how much to put on and maybe pictures!! Next I bent the zalman clip up some so it will push down harder on the cpu. After I screw it down I am able to wiggle it back and forth. I also have yet to run it for the 200 hours for break in. I dont think it will decrease by 17 degrees though. I am asking for all sorts of help on this for I would like to see my computer in the 30's celcius.

One more quick thing it is not about fan cooling I have the thermaltake xaser III and have 7 Aerocool AEROFANS each pushing 52.8 CFM of air. It is loud but I want my system cool!
Thank you for all your help in this matter!

More about : zalman 9500 as5

May 5, 2006 4:50:33 AM

too much artic silver will heat things up in a hury
your fans just for reference
rear exhaust
side and top exhaust
front intake
to cool case temps
May 5, 2006 5:56:31 AM

Quote:
First off my question/problem is do I have too much artic silver 5 on it? Can someone tell me exactly how much to put on and maybe pictures!!


Did you check out the instructions on Arctic's web site? If not, start there. If you are really worried, pull the heat sink off and look at the AS5. It should be a very thin film, evenly distributed.

Quote:
Next I bent the zalman clip up some so it will push down harder on the cpu. After I screw it down I am able to wiggle it back and forth.


I'm not sure I fully understand what bending you did but if it is not seated squarely and flat on the CPU, you've got a problem. As above, maybe pull it off and check out the details. You might have damaged the clip. I doubt it but it's possible.
Related resources
May 5, 2006 7:06:51 AM

"I would like to see my computer in the 30's celcius"

Couple questions. Did you overclock this cpu at all? What is the room temperature you have the computer in?

It might not be realistic to keep that system in the 30's C. Especially under load.

Those two graphics cards are going to be keeping your system case toasty.
May 5, 2006 3:16:25 PM

OK the CPU is not overclocked.
The instant I turn on my computer it goes from 40 to 47 degrees click one degree to the next with no break in between and this is where it stops. The system temperatures around 40 degrees celcius with all the fans/ As for the fans there are two side, two exhaust, in intake from the front and an exhaust on the top.
Bending the clip was to add more pressure down. Can anyone else wiggle the cooler once it is on?
May 5, 2006 6:04:50 PM

I have the Zalman 9500 CPU cooler. I just turned my comptuer off and checked. Yes, rotate it slightly (1-3 deg) in each direction. But not very much. The clamp across the top is not attached to the the heatsink and this allows the heatsink to properly seat on the chip. It has to float a little to ensure proper seating.

I would be careful when applying more force then the manufacturer desighed it for.

"The instant I turn on my computer it goes from 40 to 47 degrees"

I guess i'm a little confused here. Are you saying the temp is 40 degrees with the computer off? And when you turn it on, when idle it goes from 40 to 47?
May 5, 2006 6:51:42 PM

Quote:
I guess i'm a little confused here. Are you saying the temp is 40 degrees with the computer off? And when you turn it on, when idle it goes from 40 to 47?


From the instant I hit the on button I enter the bios and then watch the temperature rise. The instant I get in there the temp is 40 ans then I watch and it quickly rises to 47 and hols steady at that. So it hit 47 within 5-10 seconds of the computer being on.
May 5, 2006 7:51:33 PM

Quote:
I guess i'm a little confused here. Are you saying the temp is 40 degrees with the computer off? And when you turn it on, when idle it goes from 40 to 47?


From the instant I hit the on button I enter the bios and then watch the temperature rise. The instant I get in there the temp is 40 ans then I watch and it quickly rises to 47 and hols steady at that. So it hit 47 within 5-10 seconds of the computer being on.

That doesn't seem right. I have a 4400+ on the same mobo, same HSF. I power up at just over ambient, so maybe 26 to 30C, then it creeps up to idle temps, say 36 to 39C over a period of a few minutes, not seconds. Under the largest load I've put on my system, I've only hit 42C. I have 2: 74GB Raptors in RAID0, two 400GB HDs in RAID1 and two optical drives. Maybe the 4800+ runs that much hotter than the 4400+ but I'd be surprised. I recommend taking a closer look.
May 5, 2006 11:07:41 PM

Ace_007123 I too have the same problem. A few weeks ago I bought the zalman 9500 to decrease temps a bit. After I installed it my idle temps were 45-48C and load almost got to 60C. I reapplied arctic silver a few times, but I still got the same temps.
May 6, 2006 1:02:24 AM

I think a common mistake is using too much paste. If you have a properly lapped heatsink, like the zalman 9500 you should only have a very thin layer of Arctic silver. Don't goop it on. I'm not saying you have, but good idea to check this.

I recently bought a new computer for my wife from Ibuypower. And the processor was shutting down do to overheat. I took off the heatsink and found waaaayyyyy to much compound, it was gooped all over. I completely cleaned it all off and put on a very small layer like the directions say. The temp dropped about 15 C!

More is not better.

Arctic Silver Instructions
May 6, 2006 1:07:19 AM

When I appiled the thermal compound I just put a blob in the center of the chip and let the heatsink spread it out evenly. Should I try to lap my heatsink?
May 6, 2006 1:15:15 AM

OK Ace ........ I have a little info for you. I do not consider myself an expert, but all info I provide will be based on my own experiences.

I am currently running an Intel Pentium D 820 processor. Originally, when I would switch on my unit and go directly to the BIOS setup, I would find the CPU temp was already at about 41C. This meant that the CPU temp went from about 22C to 41C in about 11 seconds. At first I thought this was impossible! But after several individuals on this site set me straight AND I did research on my own, I found this was indeed possible and common ....... at least for a Pentium D.

Once into Windows, I found my computer would idle at about 52C and when multitasking the CPU would run around 60C. (No gaming on this PC)

Then, I decided I wanted additional cooling and purchased the Zalman 9500AT. I installed it per the instructions along with a 92mm variable speed rear case fan (the original rear case fan was MOBO controlled).

Now, my CPU idles at about 45C and may climb to 55C when multitasking. However, it almost instantaneously cools back to 50C when I stop the multitasking. So, the 9500 helped, but it didn't do any miracles. I feel these are reasonable and acceptable values and therefore, have stopped the hunt for cooler values.

Info ........ my Zalman 9500AT CPU fan is automatically controlled by the MOBO. The fan turns about 1475 RPM at idle and usually runs about 2100 RPM when multitasking (still very quite). I have the rear case fan set to run at 2500 RPM at all times. Of course, the PSU fan is also pulling some air through the case.

When applying the Artic Silver 5 to my CPU, I applied an amount about the size of a grain of rice or slightly larger and then smoothed the AS5 with a razor blade. Following is a photo of the AS5 after smoothing:

[/img]AS5 On CPU

And, if you like, a photo of the inside of my case showing the new 92mm fan and Zalman unit:

Inside Case

I hope this is helpful to you, as it has been a learning for me. All the additions did help, but not as much as I had hoped. But then, any additional cooling on the CPU has to be beneficial. However, I do not plan to try for any additional cooling for this Pentium D. From what I have read and heard, these are great temps for this processor.

Oh, almost forgot ........ once the 9500 was installed, I could rotate the cooler back and forth a little. I would assume this is normal and the cooler will setup up somewhat after the paste has "cured". However, I don't plan to try and move it any more in the future.
May 6, 2006 5:52:39 AM

Quote:
One more quick thing it is not about fan cooling I have the thermaltake xaser III and have 7 Aerocool AEROFANS each pushing 52.8 CFM of air. It is loud but I want my system cool!
Thank you for all your help in this matter!

Turn off a few of those fans (unplug them), and see if that has any effect on temps. Too many fans can be counter productive, and there is a point when they won't ALL help. I had cases with 5 active fans, I ended up disabling 2 of them, with no noticable effects on temps.

As for the Zalman, I have 1, and I have redone my AS5 3 times, the last time using the dot and smush method, and have noticed no difference in temps at any point (nor have they gotten much better after the 200 hours of set time). It's entirely possable it may need to be lapped (It's got slight grooves in the base, or at least mine does) to get better contact. However, stock, the clip holds the cooler down just fine and secure.
May 6, 2006 6:19:22 AM

How can I lap my heatsink?
May 6, 2006 12:17:09 PM

I have the same motherboard and same cpu. I'm running a raptor (you have two). I'm running 2 BFG 7900GTX. I even have the zalmon 9500 with some AS5 on there.

A difference is I have my rig overclocked by 10%.

My rig has been on for about 30 min this morning. My "idle" cpu temp is 43C.
May 6, 2006 3:20:22 PM

That X2 4800+ should be getting warm but 47C at boot is just silly. I always give myself 10C of error give or take with any given mobo diode. Im not saying its a crappy sensor but they all run the risk of being off.

But lets say its right on the money and you wanna check the grease.

After cleaning everything off with a Qtip and alcohol dip your finger into the alcohol to make sure you dont have any oil on it (Dry your finger). Apply a drop the size of a grain of rice. Spread it around with your finger to the whole serface till the surface area is covered making sure that you cannot see through the paste in some areas. The take the freshly cleaned HS and put 1/2 as much on the center of it. This will be smeared around but will be even thinner than the CPU. Just make some circular motions until it is a big enough circle to cover the CPU. I have alway had great results from doing it this way and every system I build from a sempron 2600 to an FX60 this is the way I do it.
May 6, 2006 3:57:23 PM

Quote:
After cleaning everything off with a Qtip and alcohol dip your finger into the alcohol to make sure you dont have any oil on it (Dry your finger). Apply a drop the size of a grain of rice. Spread it around with your finger to the whole serface till the surface area is covered making sure that you cannot see through the paste in some areas. The take the freshly cleaned HS and put 1/2 as much on the center of it. This will be smeared around but will be even thinner than the CPU. Just make some circular motions until it is a big enough circle to cover the CPU. I have alway had great results from doing it this way and every system I build from a sempron 2600 to an FX60 this is the way I do it.


Before you go using bare skin, read the AS website! You can get surface oil off of your skin with alcohol, but the skin below has more and within a fraction of a second, it is rising to the surface. If you want to put AS on both surfaces (I do), get a lint-free cloth, put a dab on the HS surface and polish the grease down to a thin layer with the cloth. Then put the half-rice-grain dab in the center of the CPU IHS surface, put the HS down, rotate it a few degrees to and fro, then screw or lever it down. You want clean surfaces, like surgically clean and you want to work as dust-free as possible. So don't let the cat crawl all over your stuff till you're done and the case is closed up.
May 6, 2006 6:32:40 PM

Redo the hsf installation per Arctic Silver's website. If you follow their directions to the "T" and still have the same temps, I would say the motherboard is reading temps high. I had a Tyan board a few months back (s2865) and running a x2 4400+. With an xp-90 and the recommended Panaflo fan it reported idle temps of 45C-47C at stock speeds. Load temps got up to 59C, I don't think so. I have since run that same cpu on about 4 different motherboards and it's never broke 46C under full load.
May 6, 2006 7:17:11 PM

That would be the best way to do it I agree. I have also heard that your not supposed to apply it to both surfaces but I have always had better temps spreading it out on both surfaces. Im building a couple systems that are identicle, I might end up doing it both ways to see if there is a measurable difference.
May 6, 2006 7:27:14 PM

Quote:

Then, I decided I wanted additional cooling and purchased the Zalman 9500AT. I installed it per the instructions along with a 92mm variable speed rear case fan (the original rear case fan was MOBO controlled).

Now, my CPU idles at about 45C and may climb to 55C when multitasking. However, it almost instantaneously cools back to 50C when I stop the multitasking. So, the 9500 helped, but it didn't do any miracles. I feel these are reasonable and acceptable values and therefore, have stopped the hunt for cooler values.

Info ........ my Zalman 9500AT CPU fan is automatically controlled by the MOBO. The fan turns about 1475 RPM at idle and usually runs about 2100 RPM when multitasking (still very quite). I have the rear case fan set to run at 2500 RPM at all times. Of course, the PSU fan is also pulling some air through the case.

And, if you like, a photo of the inside of my case showing the new 92mm fan and Zalman unit:

Oh, almost forgot ........ once the 9500 was installed, I could rotate the cooler back and forth a little. I would assume this is normal and the cooler will setup up somewhat after the paste has "cured". However, I don't plan to try and move it any more in the future.


Can you tell me your MOBO temps? I'm wondering how are the northbridge and mosfets cooled since this Zalman is diverting the air flow, or said better, the flow goes paralell with MOBO in back exhaust direction. On stock HSF, the air flow blows onto MOBO (at 90 degrees)) so air cools the northbridge and mosfets (round HS blows 360deg radius, square HS usually where the northbridge is).
So, is this solution raising the MOBO temps than stock (or similar) HSF?

Thanks in advance.
May 6, 2006 10:07:59 PM

Just wanted to add a couple of things.

About the 9500 being able to twist. I use a 7700 Zalman myself. I believe it is supost to be able to twist some. The reason behind that, is when certain thermal compounds cure, it become solid. Or it just becomes a air tight seal. So in order to get the HS off the cpu, requires a twisting motion to break the air tight seal, or your going to pull the CPU off the socket which will damage the pins, when the lockdown leaver is down.

In my experience so far as far as switching to another 3rd party HS, don't expect too much from IDE temps. The main thing you should see, is when the CPU is at full load, there should be at the most difference there.

You should go by the difference of temp from your stock to the 3rd party HSF. I can tell you now that you can take your same CPU and put it in another MB and get a different reading, especailly if it is a different brand MB.

And so you should not go by what other people say about temps on their setup even though they are using the same HSF. You can consider it a guide line, but nothing more.

Just my 2 cents.
May 6, 2006 10:28:52 PM

Overall, I experienced lower temps everywhere in my case after installing the 9500AT cooler and the variable speed rear case fan. Now, I honestly can't say temps dropped dramatically, but the case and MOBO temps did drop a couple of degrees also.

My PC has been runnning all day and these are the current temps and fan speeds reported by Everest (Home temp is currently 78 F):

MOBO 43C
CPU 49C
Chassis 40C
Primary Drive 53C
Second Drive 37C
CPU Fan 1507 RPM
Chassis Fan 2549 RPM

I do believe that some air is being directed to the MOBO because of the design of the 9500AT cooler. Take a close look at the following photo and you can see that the 9500 pushes air to the rear of the cooler. But, because of the way the fan sits, as air is pushed through the fins some air is also pushed outward through the fins. Some of this air will hit the MOBO and components as well. At least ths is my belief.

9500AT Fan

And another thought ........... the original cooler directed air through the HS and directly onto the MOBO. Therefore, the air became much warmer from passing throught the HS which may have contributed to the higher MOBO temps originally. In other words, the original HSF was just blowing hot air on an already hot MOBO. Just my 2 cents!
May 6, 2006 11:14:57 PM

I had another thought about the 9500.

Since it is based off Heat Pipe design, does anyone know that it uses liquid as part of its heat dissipation?

Why I ask is that since in a tower, the MB is vertical, so the liquid part would not return to the base, but to a lower pipe since it does sit sideways on a vertical MB. (and it is unavoidable by design)

Just wonder if that may have some impact on heat dissipation performance or has anyone tried running their machine on its side so the 9500 has gravity pulling the liquid part to the base?

The 7700 does not use heat pipes, so that is something I've never had to figure or try out.
May 6, 2006 11:16:54 PM

The cooler should not move very much at all.
May 6, 2006 11:26:14 PM

Errr, if the screws are tighten all the way, it will still move or twist.

That doesn't mean that it is not on correctly or it shouldn't move.

If it was a stock HSF that would be a different story.

And if the 9500 didn't move, that size HSF could break something because of its sheer weight, it is not light.

The only real concern is to have it seated correctly, and have an air tight seal.
May 7, 2006 5:57:17 AM

I have a question about the heatsink. Should the bottom of the heatsink suppose to be smooth? I just checked mine and I see fine machine marks. This that why my temps are high?
May 7, 2006 6:02:21 AM

Yes that may be it, kinda hard to tell though. It should be a mirror finish.
May 7, 2006 6:16:24 AM

It's kind of a mirror finish. It's just I can see the machine marks. If I decide to lap it what grit sandpaper do I start with? I know I shouldn't start with a coarse grit because it is already flat.
May 7, 2006 6:46:26 AM

You need just enough to cover the cpu's contact surface with a thin layer thermal compound. About 2-3 rice grain for large contact surface.

May 7, 2006 8:59:26 AM

Quote:
After I screw it down I am able to wiggle it back and forth. I also have yet to run it for the 200 hours for break in. I dont think it will decrease by 17 degrees though. I am asking for all sorts of help on this for I would like to see my computer in the 30's celcius.


geez man, no wonder your rig is such a heater, you have two raptors and 2 7xxx's in SLI plus an x2 4800...
it's normal for there to be a small amount of play if you try to wriggle it. i don't know what happens if you bend the clip though.. those should be the correct temperatures for the stock cooler, but not the cnps9500.. try reinstalling it with the second spare clip that you didn't bend, and you should only have a razor thin layer of AS5.

i haven't put any AS5 on mine yet, i've still got on the stuff that the 9500 came with and i gotta say i'm diggin the low temps with my 3000+. under 30* at idle. can't wait to reinstall with some AS5 sometime.
May 7, 2006 9:01:29 AM

Quote:
I have a question about the heatsink. Should the bottom of the heatsink suppose to be smooth? I just checked mine and I see fine machine marks. This that why my temps are high?


before you put the paste on it, could you see your reflection in it?
May 7, 2006 9:58:48 AM

Quote:
I have a question about the heatsink. Should the bottom of the heatsink suppose to be smooth? I just checked mine and I see fine machine marks. This that why my temps are high?


Yes, the bottom is suppose to be smooth.

If you read the AS5 instructions on their website, you are suppose to put AS5 on the bottom of the HS, and spread it with your finger wrapped in plastic. Then you buff it off. That fills any imperfections you can't see.

Lapping it on the other hand, I've never tried. In most cases, I myself am curious to see how well it can work, but I'm not about to ruin my new heatsink, since I think I would end up grinding too much off.

So, I prefer to put AS5 on the bottom and buff. That should help with imperfections on the bottom at the least. Lapping it would be more on the extreme side, but you do have a fair chance of messing it up.
May 8, 2006 3:09:52 AM

Yes I could.
May 8, 2006 5:08:50 AM

then it must be smooth enough. well the base on my 9500 heatsink had vague lines within the shiny surface showing it had machined, but if it was mirror-smooth then certainly that's not the cause for heatsinks to have bad transfer
May 9, 2006 1:50:00 AM

Quote:
Ace_007123 I too have the same problem. A few weeks ago I bought the zalman 9500 to decrease temps a bit. After I installed it my idle temps were 45-48C and load almost got to 60C. I reapplied arctic silver a few times, but I still got the same temps.

ok wat u need to do is get the artc silver stuff that will clean off all the as5 then reapply a thin coating , i like tu use a plastic knife to spread it and well the lines dont matter too much cuz u have to move the hs a bt so it should cover it all up.
May 9, 2006 1:54:19 AM

I just reapplied arctic silver and this time I smeared some on the heatsink until it was transparent. My idle temps dropped 5 degress C.
May 10, 2006 10:07:29 PM

I re applied and followed everything to the T acording to ArticSilvers website. I dont know what is going on so I am RMA'ing the A8N32 and getting a new motherboard hoping that it is just the sensors. If not I am looking at some other CPU cooler for I should be under 40 in ideal. That is what I am wanting and that is then what I will get !!! LOL somehow!

Update I just traded in my 2 7800gtx's OC to get the new 7900gtx's. I heard these run cooler so hopefully my case temp will also go down!
May 11, 2006 12:19:54 AM

Quote:
I re applied and followed everything to the T acording to ArticSilvers website. I dont know what is going on so I am RMA'ing the A8N32 and getting a new motherboard hoping that it is just the sensors. If not I am looking at some other CPU cooler for I should be under 40 in ideal. That is what I am wanting and that is then what I will get !!! LOL somehow!

Update I just traded in my 2 7800gtx's OC to get the new 7900gtx's. I heard these run cooler so hopefully my case temp will also go down!


You have almost the same rig I have. What case do you have?

This sensor on the mb is down by the bottom gpu card. That card is blowing air on it. So, it's giving false reading. Bad design on Asus part.
May 11, 2006 12:49:45 AM

Zalmans 9500s already have a good shiny finish on the heatsink. I put a barely visible smear of paste on that surface.
On the cpu, dont glob it on so you cannot see any of the surface of the chip. Cover it, don't hide it. What your actually trying to do is fill in the tiny imperfections in the surface of the chip and heatsink.
Dont modify the clips or brackets. They are more than adequate. Follow the fitting instructions to the letter. Because its a fairly heavy heatsink I laid my pc on its side for 6 hours and left it idling for 1st hour then ran super pi for 5 hrs (200hrs burn in sounds a bit excessive)
On o/c 3700+ @2625mhz it never goes above 43 degrees after playing bf2 for 3hrs.
A super bit of kit.
May 11, 2006 2:13:19 AM

I have a thermaltake Xaser III That is my case
May 11, 2006 10:28:22 PM

I just installed one of these on my Opty 165 @ 2.2Ghz and ASRock 939Dual. Went from idle = 32C load = 47.5C with a CM Hyper48 to idle = 28-29C load = 39-40C (45mins prime95 custom blend test). I can say that im quite happy. I was a little worried because i found that i could twist the cooler once it was tightened, but as another said, it was only 1-2 degrees left|right. I would say that there is nothing wrong with your cooler, you need to look at the other possibilities again...case flow, too much as5, not enough as5, ect.


EDIT: Yea, room temps make sense for sure. im not too sure what my room temps are, but it hasnt been much hotter than 18C outside for a while, so i would assume that my room temp would be about 20C during the day and 8C at night, maybe cooler.
May 11, 2006 11:38:28 PM

All you people who report your temps should also tell what rometemperatures you have. I for instance have 20C in the winter and 30C in the summer and the temperatures in the computer will of corse raise by 10C unless the fans spinns faster.
May 23, 2006 12:57:41 AM

Room temp 22 c and the Mb is 28c and under light load CPU is 32c under full 100 percent load for an hour never goes over 42c one thing I learned is to check the bottom of the 9500 with a mechinist rule to see if it is flat mine had a bump in it so it wouldn't of sat flat on cpu and would of run hot lapped it perfectly smooth and that is how I get these temps is the only reason I can see, somebody else also said on some forums that they had a not so flap 9500 hs and yes mine will turn every so slightly if you try and turn it but not to much maybe about 1/16 of an inch. Good luck all Board is a P5P800SE overclocked 10 percent to a P-4 630 3.0 to 3.3
!