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Are there ANY nVidia AGP cards that feature dual link DVI???

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  • Graphics Cards
  • Dual Link Dvi
  • Graphics
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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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May 5, 2006 7:25:06 PM

Hello,

I bought this awesome 24" widescreen Samsung 244T LCD monitor... but imagine my surprise when I found out that regular DVI does not support the data rate needed for its native 1920 x 1200 resolution! So I had to fall back to using the analog VGA connection. I've done a lot of research, but haven't found anything... so do any of you know of any nVidia graphics card that is AGP-based and features dual link DVI???

Thanks in advance,
8) Explodey

More about : nvidia agp cards feature dual link dvi

May 5, 2006 8:01:22 PM

My 6800Ultra seems to handle 1900x1200 on my 24" just fine...
May 5, 2006 8:27:33 PM

There are a number of AGP graphics cards that have dual DVI and support resolutions up to 2048x1536. As far as Nvidia goes, XFX made a 6600 that you may be able to pick up fairly cheap.
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May 5, 2006 10:23:18 PM

Thanks, prozac26, I really appreciate your post... but are you absolutely certain that the AGP GS graphics cards are supporting dual link DVI? I know that the 6800GS and 7800GS GPU's support dual link DVI, but idiotic manufacturers like eVGA, etc. never mention dual link DVI, and actually identify a resolution of "1600 x 1200 Max Digital"...

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=256-A8-N50...

So I can't tell if they are ignorant of the capabilities of their own product, or if they didn't bother to implement dual link DVI... sigh.
May 5, 2006 10:33:51 PM

SHv2, what is the specific model and brand of your graphics card? And you are using the DVI connector rather than the VGA connector, right...?

Also, steckman, there is a distinction between dual link DVI and dual DVI. The phrase "dual DVI" is typically used by manufacturers to indicate that two DVI connectors are present, whereas dual link DVI is implemented via a single connector. I found that out at Wikipedia. I'm so irritated that the powers that be chose coined two very similar terms, that mean very different things...!
a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2006 12:48:17 AM

Quote:
Thanks, prozac26, I really appreciate your post... but are you absolutely certain that the AGP GS graphics cards are supporting dual link DVI?


I doubt it personally.
I know that for most it's only the GF6800U that got the dual link support through and external SII TMDS, and both the NV40 and NV50 GPUs only have integrated single link TMDS. It's only the rare GF6800U and VERY RARE GF6800GT (ASUS made) that have confirmed dual-link DVI (but only one). For nVidia you're going to have to work harder because there is no guraantee that any one model has Dual-link for sure. MOST GF7800GTX have dual link, but some do not, I'm not sure if "all" GF7900GT/GTX have at least one dual link, I haven't been as concerned since I decied to avoid desktop, and forget getting a planel and card.

The only GF7800GS that I'm aware of that supports Dual-link is the Gainward 24 pipe GF7900 based card, so if you're in the US you'll have to order it from OverclockersUK and then have it imported.

Quote:
I know that the 6800GS and 7800GS GPU's support dual link DVI,


All of them do, support is not an issue actually having the parts is. The GF2MX could potentially support dual link via external TMDs transmiter, they just didn't sport one, so no dice.

But don't get misled from the people who don't know what they're talking about. The only GF6600 with dual-link that I know of is the GF600 GT LX, 1 Dual link 1 single link, but it's PCIe. There's also a frankenstein GF6200 TC out there that supports 4 monitors through 2 dual link DVI connectors (and also use that to make a double wide card that's 4 sngle link DVI connectors), but once again as the TC denotes PCIe only.
The most prevelant ones out there and likely you only AGP options were GF6800Ua and the very RARE GF6800GTs (Asus made one IIRC). Then there's the Quadros, and at that point I'd say spend the money on a new MoBo and a PCIe variant.

Quote:
but idiotic manufacturers like eVGA, etc. never mention dual link DVI, and actually identify a resolution of "1600 x 1200 Max Digital"...

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=256-A8-N50...


Umm...., click on the Spec Sheet (pdf) and you'll clearly see it's single-link;



PS max digital is 16x12 since that's at NORM refresh of 60hz and above. 19x12 is supported with reduced blanking at lower refresh.

Quote:
So I can't tell if they are ignorant of the capabilities of their own product, or if they didn't bother to implement dual link DVI... sigh.


They aren't ignorant of either the capabilities, nor of the fact that most people who can afford to get a large panel hi-res LCD will be willing to upgrade to PCIe to give them the best options. Also that FEW people know or care about the difference (sad but true fact of the economics/marketing of the cards).

Quote:
SHv2, what is the specific model and brand of your graphics card? And you are using the DVI connector rather than the VGA connector, right...?


He may be using DVI, but if it is single link, then he's running reduced blanking and likely running at 52Hz.

Quote:
Also, steckman, there is a distinction between dual link DVI and dual DVI. The phrase "dual DVI" is typically used by manufacturers to indicate that two DVI connectors are present, whereas dual link DVI is implemented via a single connector.


Not really, you have Dual DVI right, but dual link means 2 TMDS transmitters, you can even have Dual Dual-Link DVIs, like on the X1800 and X1900 series and some X1600 series cards, and on some Quadros and FireGL cards.

Quote:
I found that out at Wikipedia. I'm so irritated that the powers that be chose coined two very similar terms, that mean very different things...!


What else are you going to call them, they are technically correct. It's like complaining that people don't know the difference between component and composite because of the naming strategy. :roll:

It's a nuisance when talking to people who don't know the difference, but now that you do, you wont' forget it, and will always know what to look for, right?

Once again for anyone needing a refresher read the THG review;

http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/11/29/the_tft_connecti...
a b U Graphics card
May 6, 2006 1:02:06 AM

Quote:
dual link dvi AFAIK has nothing to do with gpu's. it is a connection technology.


Actually they are related since most companies rely on the integrated TMDS transmitter for their primary DVI support (some exceptions like the MSI FX5950 in the review above) and thus you're limited to it's properties for one of your DVIs, for most dual DVI cards it's only the second DVI connector that's supported by an external TMDS.

Look at THG's review and they show the difference between nV's integrated TMDS and the SII external TMDS's quality (even though a typo is there about suport for 162mhz for the first one where it's really just 141mhz.
May 6, 2006 3:08:08 PM

Quote:
I know that the 6800GS and 7800GS GPU's support dual link DVI, but idiotic manufacturers like eVGA, etc. never mention dual link DVI, and actually identify a resolution of "1600 x 1200 Max Digital"...

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=256-A8-N50...


Umm...., click on the Spec Sheet (pdf) and you'll clearly see it's single-link;


It's a little confusing, but I think the EVGA card actually does support DVI-DL. The evga's DVI >port< definitely allows a DVI-DL cable, which you can deduce form the adapter picture on this page of the TH review ...

FYI I just bought a new evga 7800gs OC at circuit city last night, I got it for just under $200 AR + tax, though you need a coupon to get it down to 220 & I used discounted GCs to get it to $200. It's all detailed here.

Quote:
PS max digital is 16x12 since that's at NORM refresh of 60hz and above. 19x12 is supported with reduced blanking at lower refresh.

Actually I think those limitations are because of NVidia's current drivers, not the card itself. Take a look at the links in my last few posts to that FW thread I gave above, links to the nVidia borads where people discuss this. I'm crossing my fingers that nVidia eventually fixes what they apparently broke in a recent driver update which causes this limitation.
May 7, 2006 2:07:03 AM

If money is no object, the following definintely, positively supports dual-link DVI:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue...

See part# GX-032-GW on that page.

It runs well over $500USD, which is bend-over-and-bark-like-the-bitch-you-are overpriced for an AGP card these days.
May 7, 2006 3:49:21 AM

Quote:
If you have a big budget, the 7800GS will most likely do the job for you. If you find it, it'll be in the $300 price range.


$269 on the egg.
May 7, 2006 5:45:45 AM

I agree "I know that the 6800GS and 7800GS GPU's support dual link DVI". Also call a manufacturer like XFX they are very helpful to confirm. And yes the GPU itself does the DVI encoding usually these days.

Also IMO ATI provides superior video quality 2D and 3D - saw this:

ATI X1800

Flexible display support
Dual integrated dual-link DVI transmitters
DVI 1.0 compliant / HDMI interoperable and HDCP ready*

http://www.ati.com/products/RadeonX1800/specs.html
May 12, 2006 4:55:11 PM

The Grape Ape knows his shish.
the money is no object so i copped the 7800 24 pipe GS+ based on the 7900GT and had it imported to mah hood BK,NY. this card does feature dual link DVI, it's a dual slot and comes with 2 vga adapters.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2006 10:13:55 PM

Quote:

It's a little confusing, but I think the EVGA card actually does support DVI-DL. The evga's DVI >port< definitely allows a DVI-DL cable, which you can deduce form the adapter picture on this page of the TH review ...


Doesn't really matter about that adapters as the analogue signal doesn't use the dual link TMDS' pins anyways. Personally I'd go with their description, not some assumptions because they slapped a different connector in there. From that argument, because I DO have a VGA to DVI connector you can run a digital LCD panel off a VGA connection because my VGA-DVI-A adapter for my P260 will accept your DVI-D jack. Doesn't mean it'll work.

Quote:
PS max digital is 16x12 since that's at NORM refresh of 60hz and above. 19x12 is supported with reduced blanking at lower refresh.

Actually I think those limitations are because of NVidia's current drivers, not the card itself.

The limitations would be hardware, software has always be easily bypassed. If it's single link then it's a hard limit period, and if you look at the TFT review you'll see that even then with some cards you're pushing it.

Quote:
Take a look at the links in my last few posts to that FW thread I gave above, links to the nVidia borads where people discuss this.


That's alright, I know a ton of threads where people said that this or that card would power a CinemaSeries monitor because they were confusing Dual-DVI with Dual-Link. Because alot of people say the same thing, doesn't mean any of them know what they're talking about.

Quote:
I'm crossing my fingers that nVidia eventually fixes what they apparently broke in a recent driver update which causes this limitation.


No driver will make a single-link card go above 1920x1200x32@52hz, and if the card is capable of doing it you'd have the option within 3rd party programs. I'd recommend refreshforce, but approach it with far more acceptance than you have sofar because otherwise you'll probably break something.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2006 10:35:28 PM

Quote:
I agree "I know that the 6800GS and 7800GS GPU's support dual link DVI". Also call a manufacturer like XFX they are very helpful to confirm.


Always the wise choice. Most companies will get back to you within a day or two and they'd usually tell you the information specific to that card, not something that may be a generic description.

Quote:
And yes the GPU itself does the DVI encoding usually these days.


But for most it's only 1 integrated TMDS and one external. On the GF7800GS+ (aka GF7900) it's because of the internal TMDS that you can be assured that it has at least dual link for one of the DVI.
The X1800 and X1900 are the only ones I know of with dual integrated TMDS, which also happen to be dual-link.
But the thing you're confusing in my reply is not that they HAVE dual link, only that the VPU/GPU supports the addition of a dual-link TMDS, which is different than what people are thinkng/saying. Support for VIVO at the VPU/GPU level doesn't mean a card has VIVO though, which would be the same as a VPU/GPU supporting dual-link TMDS but not 'sporting' or being equipped with them.

Quote:
Also IMO ATI provides superior video quality 2D and 3D - saw this:


I'd agree on the 2D, but the 3D will be a toss-up and for serious pro apps I'd say nV's got it, for 3D gaming ATi's probably got the edge for some features. But if he want nV hey that's his preference, it's very app dependant really.

Quote:
The Grape Ape knows his shish.


Thanks mang! 8)
Hope you enjoy the card, they're nice.

I still am leary of the GF7800GS' price premium and prefer people get a PCIe version of their board and a solid PCIe card, but it's really case by case who the GS is a perfect match for, hopefully that's the case for you.
!