Need help with graphics please..X800XL vs GTO vs X850PRO

[Aloha737-700]

Fortunately I've got them narrowed down to just a few options, but, I need a bit of advice on selecting a new graphics card.

OK, here's the deal. I'm running a lower-midrange system (check my sig specs) and only looking for a temporary upgrade for now to what I have, and I'll purchase a whole new system when DX10/Vista come out next year.

Till then the main bottleneck in my system is my current 32mb graphics card. The only game i play very often is MS Flight Simulator 2004, but that program is very demanding of graphics cards and so I need something better than what I have, I'm only getting 5 fps max in the sim.

I also only have an AGP port, I don't have PCI-e and don't wish to upgrade my mobo, it'd be a waste of money when I'll be replacing this entire system within a year anyway.


So, I've done a lot of research, and a heck of a lot of looking at the VGA charts and prices on newegg and tigerdirect, and got it narrowed down to the GeForce 6800GS 256mg AGP, or the Radeon X800/X850 family.

Further review of the charts and I decided to go with the X800 family, it seems to be slightly faster than the 6800 GS.



Now, the problem:

I have 4 options when it comes to the X800 family that I'm looking at, and all of them have different speeds, pros, and cons, and PRICES, so I'm getting hung up on which features would be more valuable having.


Here's my options:

Sapphire X800GTO 256MB
Core Clock: 400Mhz
Memory Clock: 980mhz
256-bit
12 Pipelines
Cost: $151 @ newegg

Powercolor X800GTO 256MB
Core Clock: 475Mhz
Memory Clock: 900Mhz
256-bit
12 pipelines
Cost: $155

Same price on these two, but what's the difference in performance? One has a faster memory clock, the other has a faster core clock. I don't know which is better?

Next:

GeCube X800XL 256mb
Core Clock: unknown (not listed)
Memory Clock: unknown (not listed)
256-bit
16 pipelines
Cost: $185

Sapphire X850 PRO 256MB
Core Clock: 500Mhz
Memory Clock: 1000Mhz
256-bit
12 pipelines
Cost: $219


....okay, I'm guessing that the X800XL from GeCube is the most powerful of these cards, despite the fact that they didnt list the clock speeds, all other XL's ive seen have been listed as being superior to the X850 PRO due to 16 pipelines. Is this correct?

Problem is, I've never HEARD of GeCube before and don't know if they are a brand I can trust. I've heard before that price indicates quality and an X800XL priced so low makes me wonder if perhaps GeCube isn't such a good quality manufacturer, but I don't know.


So question #1 is: "Is GeCube a quality manufacturer, or are their products crap?"


In case the answer to the above is "crap", then between the remaining three cards, the two GTOs and the X850 pro, what's the better choice between speed and cost?


As listed above, one of the GTOs has a faster memory clock, one has a faster core clock. Which is better?

And then out of the better one of those two, is it really worth the extra $64 to go for an X850 pro for 20mhz faster memory, and 100mhz faster core, considering I'd still be stuck with 12 pipelines instead of the 16 available on the X800XL?



I want to get the most performance for my money, but at the same time, i don't feel like wasting $300 on an AGP card that will be completely outdated and useless once I build my new system after DX10 comes out. So these are my options. What would you suggest based on your experience?

I think I prefer the GeCube, but I do not want to buy that if GeCube is an unreliable, poor quality brand. I'd rather go for less power than buy a crap card.

 

[Aloha737-700]

Someone voted for the X850 PRO, I appreciate the help, can you tell me why this is perhaps the best card? Thank you for any additional help you can provide.

 

[Datman]

The X850pro, if you don't want to overclock, higher clock speeds stock.

The GeCube is fine also, they're popular in Australia.
The GeCube runs 400/990, with 16 pipes.
And is cheaper to buy.

Both cards should be close in performance stock.

 

[fainis]

well here it is my friend ...gecube is a very good brand......of course 16 pixel pipe should do good ..but 850 is a different core...is has a nice gating clock...consuming less than a x800...ati says it consumes less than a x700.......

well go for x850pro..if money are good for you....it will satisfy you for a long time........

as for gecube cards...this is a very good brand ..i had gecubes before and they were very good cards.......

i guess it all narrows down to x800xl and x850pro.......even if x800xl has more pixel pipes ...x850 pro is faster...look for benchmarks..there are allot on the net....

good luck my friend.......and don`t worry ....that 6800gs is well behind a x800

 

[fainis]

the way i see it .....x850pro has better memory bandwith...and that explains

good luck everybady

 

[Aloha737-700]

Thank you for the help, if you don't mind I have one more question.

In the "buyers guide" at the top of this forum (sticky) it lists GeCube aka Gigacube as one of the worst brands of cards and to avoid them.

It says similar about powercolor.

So I'm a bit nervous about purchasing the GeCube, and am now leaning towards the PRO, and it seems everyone who voted is in agreement on the pro.


But the thing is although with the pro I'd have faster stock speeds, I still am left with only 12 pipes. The X800XL has 16 pipes, but once again, manufactured by GeCube.

So I'm just a tad confused about the quality of GeCube.

 

[Riverama]

Wow, too bad you can't upgrade to a PCIe motherboard.. Newegg has a X850XT 256MB-GDDR3 (16 PLs) card for about $165, in my opinion the best card of the previous generation, it even beats some newer ones like x1600 or geforces 7600s..

Anyway You can file this comment under 'useless posts'.

 

[fainis]

not to worry my friend ...x1600 is a joke ...x850xt can easily run against 7800gt............it`s still in high end race.....in oblivion x850xt compares with a x1800xt or gto ..they have similar performance



as for the brands..gecube is a good brand.........i would not go for gigabyte..but that`s a brand ..i guess what matters is the core......

and please ... pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee stay away from pasive coolers ......

 

[Scougs]

I have had good experience with my Sapphire X800GTO. Mine was basically a X800XL with 4 pipes disabled in the bios. A simple change of one bit in the bios and flashing the card with the modified bios unlocked the pipes. The memory on the Sapphire cards is usually pretty overclockable. They used the 1.6ns memory which is supposed to be good up to 600MHz (DDR1200) but most cards probably won't be able to go that high. The number of unlockable cards seems to be very high. I have one that unlocked and I know a guy from school that has one that he unlocked. I have also helped two different guys on these forums unlock their cards. All of them being Sapphire cards with the R430 core.

The X800XL and the Sapphire X800GTO both use the R430 core which doesn't overclock very high. The PowerColor GTO almost certainly has a different core than the R430 because R430s typically won't run at 475MHz. So the PowerColor might have some overclocking potential. I had a bad experience with PowerColor's customer support and would not recomend them though.

Over $200 for the X850Pro seems a bit steep from what I have seen the X800 XL is faster than the X850 Pro by a slim margin making it a poor choice since it is more expensive.

There is a chance of unlocking any of the 12 pipe cards its just that many people don't know how to check. If you go with a 12 pipe card I can help you figure out if your card is unlockable and if it is I can help you unlock it.

 

[Scougs]

Yes, I realize that unlocking isn't a sure thing. However, in the case of the currently sold Sapphire AGP X800GTOs I think it is as close to a sure thing as you can get. I personally have one that unlocked, I know a guy from my college that unlocked one a few weeks ago and I have helped two people on these forums unlock their cards. I have not had any contact with one that has not unlocked. I have also read in other forums that other people are having sucess unlocking the Sapphire cards. I don't remember reading about an unsucessful attempt at unlocking them.

 

[GeneticWeapon]

Unlocked R430 GTO's are a lot slower than the standard X800XL's.

 

[Scougs]

Not you again! :x
Don't listen to GeneticWeapon. He has harassed me in other forums telling me that I am wrong about the unlocked R430 GTO being slower than an XL. He never supports his statement. He doesn't have either card from what I can tell. I don't know what his problem is. Tomshardwareguide's AGP VGA list says that an X800XL combined with an Athlon64 4000+ gets just under 5000 in 3DMark05. My system with an unlocked and slightly overclocked X800GTO with an R430 core gets around 5000 with my stock 2.8GHz P4 and about 5500 with the CPU overclocked to 3.5GHz. In my mind that is equivelant.

 

[Aloha737-700]

Thanks for all the wonderful help guys. I found, for $20 more than the PRO, an X850XT online, I think that's an amazing deal and the solution to my confusion here, it's the fasted and has 16 pipelines, I can defininitely swing $20 for that.

The only concern that remains is its compatibility with my current PSU, I've posted a thread about that here:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Radeon-X850XT-PSU-issues-ftopict184570.html

Thanks!!

 

[GeneticWeapon]

My system with an unlocked and slightly overclocked X800GTO with an R430 core gets around 5000 with my stock 2.8GHz P4 and about 5500 with the CPU overclocked to 3.5GHz. In my mind that is equivelant.

My R480 X800GTO got 5,761 with only 12 piplines(default)....which makes your super unlocked P.O.S. card look kinda stoopid :roll:

And the X800XL(after overclocking) will beat all of them you moron.

 

[GeneticWeapon]

He doesn't have either card from what I can tell.

Since you figure I shoot my mouth off without knowing first hand about the topic :roll:

Moron.

 

[pengwin]

Thanks for all the wonderful help guys. I found, for $20 more than the PRO, an X850XT online, I think that's an amazing deal and the solution to my confusion here, it's the fasted and has 16 pipelines, I can defininitely swing $20 for that.

The only concern that remains is its compatibility with my current PSU, I've posted a thread about that here:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Radeon-X850XT-PSU-issues-ftopict184570.html

Thanks!!

good i was about to suggest the XT edition it smuch better than the X850Pro

 

[Scougs]

GeneticWeapon,
I am not trying to make you into an enemy but that is what you seem to want.
You can't possibly have an R430 core card because they don't overclock anywhere near the 561MHz that you got out of your card. I'm not trying to say that an unlocked R430 is better than an overclocked R480 but since you apparently can't get the R480 in an AGP X800GTO anymore that is irrelevant.

The X800XL doesn't overclock very well because it has an R430 core. The reason that the R430 doesn't overclock well is because it uses the cheap, low quality 110 nm manufacturing process while the R480 uses the low-k dielectric 130 nm process. If you don't believe that the X800XL doesn't overclock well, check out this link:

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1808&page=3