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A $722 system that pwns like madd...or does it?

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May 9, 2006 6:20:51 AM

This is my newest plan. The goal is to extract the best possible gaming from the least amount of dollars for the average gamer. Assuming Input+Output devices have already been taken care of (monitor, keyboard, mouse)


MOBO: Asus A8N5X
CPU: A64 3000+ Venice
MEM: Corsair Twinx2048-3200C2PT (XMS 2x1GB) 2-3-3-6
GPU: XFX PV-T73G-UDD3 Geforce 7600GT 256MB (free copy of GRAW)
HDD: WD Caviar SE WD2500JS SATA 3.0Gb/s
PSU: Antect SmartPower 2.0 500W
CASE: Cooler Master Centurion 5
CD/DVD: Sony DVD-ROM

e-tailers used: newegg.com, securemart.com, zipzoomfly.com

Total price including shipping and tax: $722


Comments? Criticisms?

More about : 722 system pwns madd

May 9, 2006 7:46:31 AM

get a GPU without the 'free' game, it'll be cheaper.

Yes, they make you pay for those bundled games.
a b B Homebuilt system
May 9, 2006 11:56:57 AM

Should do nicely, although there are recent price drops on the a64/3500+ model, and I'd fight hard to save another $100 to opt instead for a 7900GT if possible, althogh the 7600GT is quite nice for $200-ish...
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May 9, 2006 12:14:25 PM

not really, have seen some great deals w/ the MSI and "prince of persia 3" and given the choice I would definitly take "ghost recon - advanced warfighter" hands down. I just got it is excellent, physx support is a definite plus.
May 9, 2006 12:41:59 PM

look harder: OEM versions can be much cheaper and deliver. However, if you want to get the game, then a bundle is indeed a good solution.
May 9, 2006 2:01:50 PM

Quote:
This is my newest plan. The goal is to extract the best possible gaming from the least amount of dollars for the average gamer. Assuming Input+Output devices have already been taken care of (monitor, keyboard, mouse)


MOBO: Asus A8N5X
CPU: A64 3000+ Venice
MEM: Corsair Twinx2048-3200C2PT (XMS 2x1GB) 2-3-3-6
GPU: XFX PV-T73G-UDD3 Geforce 7600GT 256MB (free copy of GRAW)
HDD: WD Caviar SE WD2500JS SATA 3.0Gb/s
PSU: Antect SmartPower 2.0 500W
CASE: Cooler Master Centurion 5
CD/DVD: Sony DVD-ROM

e-tailers used: newegg.com, securemart.com, zipzoomfly.com

Total price including shipping and tax: $722


Comments? Criticisms?


Spend the extra $10-12 and pick up the Asus A8N-E instead. You gain the Nforce 4 Ultra chipset (which is nice) and you gain SATA II also. Make sure the hard drive is SATA II with a 16MB cache, and just curious, you are not getting a DVD burner? NEC makes a good one for right at $40 on Newegg.

EDIT: Did you price you posted include the mail in rebates? The video card has $30 MIR and the RAM $50. If not, even better!
May 9, 2006 2:30:07 PM

I agree, the 3500+ will be a little more expensive but will give a bit more performance than the 3000+. Not to mention more headroom for overclocking. You should scrap the case you wanted to buy and build your computer inside of a darth vader helmet, the kids will love it.
May 9, 2006 4:00:26 PM

Quote:
I agree, the 3500+ will be a little more expensive but will give a bit more performance than the 3000+. Not to mention more headroom for overclocking. You should scrap the case you wanted to buy and build your computer inside of a darth vader helmet, the kids will love it.


Being from North Carolina also, I certainlly agree with that. Darth vader is ummm just cool.
May 9, 2006 4:14:22 PM

You could OC that 3000+ and get to 4000+ speeds with right ram and cooling.
May 9, 2006 5:24:24 PM

Here you go:

3000 venice (754) $119
Epox SLI $90
2X EVGA 7600gs OC'd to 550mhz from factory- $100 each after rebate.
Same Case, memory, etc....
May 9, 2006 5:54:54 PM

Also, consider refurb video cards (not refurb anything else though) as you can save 150% or more. I got a x1900xt last week for $380 shipped, bout $120 off. it came with EVERYTHING that was supposed to be there including sealed CDs. Sometimes however a cable or something will be missing. This will save ya lots of cash though.

Hide
May 9, 2006 6:26:11 PM

Quote:
Here you go:

3000 venice (754) $119
Epox SLI $90
2X EVGA 7600gs OC'd to 550mhz from factory- $100 each after rebate.
Same Case, memory, etc....


WHY would you ever want to go Socket 754? That makes no sense...
May 9, 2006 6:44:40 PM

Huh, guess you don't know what you're talking about.......
a b B Homebuilt system
May 9, 2006 6:49:19 PM

You don't say which of the many Cooler Master 5 cases you're getting; some looked pricey on Newegg. My last two cases were in the $20-$30 range each from geeks.com, and included front and rear 120mm fan openings. The money saved will buy the fans, round cables for better airflow, and a set of thumbscrews for the case.
May 9, 2006 9:44:30 PM

Dont go socket 754. JUST DONT
May 9, 2006 9:56:08 PM

Seriously, does anyone here KNOW anything about socket 754?
May 9, 2006 10:08:20 PM

754, there is no upside. If you want to upgrade your cpu next year you can't go out and buy a dual core.....

Also single channel and 130nm come to mind....


And what do you know about the 754 that makes it so magical?
May 9, 2006 10:37:38 PM

Quote:
Seriously, does anyone here KNOW anything about socket 754?


socket 754 is long dead, it makes no sense to upgrade to it now. it doesn't support dual core.

two 7600gs's is not only a stupid idea, its a RETARDED stupid idea. the 7600gs is a terrible card, and SLIing a terrible card is just a stupid waste of money. a 7600GT single will beat two of these PoS's.
May 9, 2006 11:38:43 PM

Ok Noobs you asked for it. First off I will concede lack of dual core support, but since this is about a budget system for gaming, best that is possible for the dollar, that does not matter. Second 754 is not LONG dead, in fact AMD just released a 2.2ghz venice for it and you can get a 754 venice for the same price as a 200mhz slower 939 venice. The motherboard mentioned is a Nforce4 SLI board, so, the only thing this combination does not bring to the table that 939 does, is the dual channel memory controller, which does not compair to the 200mhz boost to performance. Dual channel is simply not important for single core cpu's. Third, the 7600gs mentioned is factory overclocked and performs at about 95% the level of the factory clocked 7600gt, the cores are exactly the same and the memory difference is marginal in the real world- see 939 versus AM2 memory performance. Finally, since the GPU mentioned only runs $100 each and the factory 7600gt's cheapest price is $160, this IS a great performance for cost option. Truth be told, the 7900GT is still a better idea, but I'll concede most of you are smart enought to already know that. Now, why don't you all whine about how the 128bit interface of the 7600GT/GS's cripple it or something else that in the real world is insignificant.
May 10, 2006 1:20:49 AM

Quote:
Ok Noobs you asked for it. First off I will concede lack of dual core support, but since this is about a budget system for gaming, best that is possible for the dollar, that does not matter. Second 754 is not LONG dead, in fact AMD just released a 2.2ghz venice for it and you can get a 754 venice for the same price as a 200mhz slower 939 venice. The motherboard mentioned is a Nforce4 SLI board, so, the only thing this combination does not bring to the table that 939 does, is the dual channel memory controller, which does not compair to the 200mhz boost to performance. Dual channel is simply not important for single core cpu's. Third, the 7600gs mentioned is factory overclocked and performs at about 95% the level of the factory clocked 7600gt, the cores are exactly the same and the memory difference is marginal in the real world- see 939 versus AM2 memory performance. Finally, since the GPU mentioned only runs $100 each and the factory 7600gt's cheapest price is $160, this IS a great performance for cost option. Truth be told, the 7900GT is still a better idea, but I'll concede most of you are smart enought to already know that. Now, why don't you all whine about how the 128bit interface of the 7600GT/GS's cripple it or something else that in the real world is insignificant.


zomg they released a 2.2 when 939 is ending zomg!11 must be da best buy u no!!11 lol...........

CORRECT advise would be get the dual sata motherboard with 939 AND AM2 support, get a 3000+. PERIOD. anything else is crippling his future in computers. The 939 is superior to the 754 socket in everyway, so what the hell is the point in recommending 754? Why would you reccommend sli 7600 GS? WHY do you think 7600 GS perform 95% of the capabilities of a 7600 GT? Have you not looked at their specs? I guess not, so I guess I'll post them for you.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

$129.

Core clock: 400mhz
Memory clock: 800 mhz
Pipelines: 12

cool, now let's see if a 7600gt has 5% more than those clocks LOL.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

$179

Core clock: 560mhz
Memory clock: 1400mhz
Pipelines:12

Hmm, seems like you're dead wrong. Yeah, that's the correct assumption isn't it?

Funny thing is though, you told him to go SLI with a card that has 400/800 clock speeds, and then you call everyone else who has posted against you noobs? Man, you're the noob here. 7600 gs, factory overclocked, that's a good one dude.
May 10, 2006 2:01:00 AM

Ok, guess I am talking to people who can't read and also don't know the subject of this thread. Awesome. Well, If you want me to restate things, the topic is all-out performance TODAY for the cheapest price possible. As stated above, many graphics card manufacturers overclock their cards. Some even offer lifetime warranties on these "factory" overclocks. The 7600 core is the same on the GT as the GS. Memory speed and latencies are relatively minor is GPU performance. 200mhz speed increases are LARGER performance wise than any gains dual channel memory can bring. The amount of pipelines hinder GPU's FAR more than their memory bandwidth. If anyone would actually like to learn about how things work in the real world. Please, take the time to read what is said in a post before you add to it. Thank you.
May 10, 2006 2:26:04 AM

Quote:
Ok, guess I am talking to people who can't read and also don't know the subject of this thread. Awesome. Well, If you want me to restate things, the topic is all-out performance TODAY for the cheapest price possible. As stated above, many graphics card manufacturers overclock their cards. Some even offer lifetime warranties on these "factory" overclocks. The 7600 core is the same on the GT as the GS. Memory speed and latencies are relatively minor is GPU performance. 200mhz speed increases are LARGER performance wise than any gains dual channel memory can bring. The amount of pipelines hinder GPU's FAR more than their memory bandwidth. If anyone would actually like to learn about how things work in the real world. Please, take the time to read what is said in a post before you add to it. Thank you.


fact is, you gave him bad advice. you gave him a crappier processor socket with a 754 sli motherboard to run 2 7600 gs's.
May 10, 2006 3:07:50 AM

bump,

Spend $90 more bucks on this video card and your rig will smoke the 7600'S in Sli. Sli is more heat, more noise, and more electricity. The EVGA 7900 gt would still outperform those 2 cards in 3d games. Also, not all video games are programed to take advantage of Sli and still widely considered a enthusist set-up.

Listen to advice and stick with the 939.
"Dual channel is simply not important for single core cpu's" ===WHAT? Please explain this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
May 10, 2006 3:12:39 AM

"the goal is to extract the best possible gaming from the least amount of dollars for the average gamer."

No where does that say anything about future upgrading. If you believe a 2.0 ghz Venice K8 is a crappy processor for gaming, you shouldn't be posting. There certainly are better processors, but not better price/performance. Most games are more limited by the GPU than the CPU. Oblivion will run fine on this CPU, regardless of GPU. Any K8 with 512kb L2 cache will do quite nicely with gaming, and will put all but the most expensive P4's to bed. While a X2 certainly isn't a bad idea if this were a real computer build, this post/thread is the computer equivalent of bench racing.
May 10, 2006 3:16:42 AM

I've already endorced my support for the 7900gt. It is an excellent card. However, (1) 7900GT draws the same amount of power (give or take %5 either way) as (2) 7600GS's. In the games that do have proper SLI support, (2) 7600's will perform very similiar to (1) 7900GT, usually between 85- 115%, but two 7600GS's cost significantly less than one 7900GT.

Fact: Dual Channel Memory controllers give gains between 0 & 5% depending on application on single core CPU's. A 200mhz clock increase is 10% in this case, that is in all applications. Don't get me wrong, a dual core cpu would be absolutely hindered if it had to use only a single channel. With a single core CPU, this is not the case.
May 10, 2006 3:20:42 AM

I think it's your attitude that "your way is right and there's no discussion about it" is the problem here. Get off your high horse and listen you might learn something.

http://www.cpuplanet.com/features/article.php/1587771

1. It's faster and insignificantly 0-5% more expensive.
2. 939 is highly more upgradable (future-proof).

But no, let's save $20 for a vastly insuperior machine.
May 10, 2006 3:27:37 AM

I would like to hear you say something logically to defend your position. No one has so far. Anyone can just flat out say, this one is better. Defend your position. I've given you numbers, and valid argument, and used logic to the best of my ability to inform on the real world usage of these hardware components. Would I build the described system, probably not. I've tried to explain that pretty well, too. I've done the research, the numbers are easy to find online if you do so yourself. Spreading mis-information is doing anyone who does want to learn a HUGE injustice.
May 10, 2006 3:48:40 AM

There is no way having more memory bandwidth is a bad thing. Even if it is only 5% better, its also only about 5% more expensive, so the price to performance ratio is the same, but you get a faster chip out of the deal.

The 7600GT is a fine card for now and with the s939/PCI-E setup he'll be ready for an X2 and an 8 series or something similar on down the road. It depends on how you account for the cost, I myself would factor in the required motherboard/processor upgrade for future performance boosts, some people wouldn't. I wouldn't like to have to spend the extra 300 or so later on to do that.
May 10, 2006 12:43:10 PM

If I were building a real computer system I'd do the same thing. In the long wrong it will help a bit in keeping things up to date. Dual channel is definately NOT a bad thing to have. I'll take any gains anyway I can get them. There is no such thing as too much of a good thing. But, 939 cpu's are MORE than 5% more expensive than 754, so it's cost to performance ratio is not as good. And this is just a theoretical system, not one we are actually going to build, so upgrading in the future isn't an issue. Check out the price/performance difference between a 939 San Diego 4000 and a 754 4000 Newark, then compare the Newark to a FX55. MSI has a mobile lid to put on the mobile processor and be able to use any heat sink/fan combo, all you need is a revision E capable board. The motherboard about is an Nforce4 SLI board and thus DOES have PCIe for future upgrading.
May 10, 2006 1:18:20 PM

We are not talking about what is practical, just all out cheap performance.

venice chips:
939 athlon 3000 is 1.8ghz and costs $114
754 athlon 3000 is 2.0ghz and costs $129 - price just jumped from $118, I'm guessing from demand.

939 athlon 3200 is 2.0ghz and costs $154
754 athlon 3200 is 2.2ghz and costs $154
939 athlon 3500 is 2.2ghz and costs $203

San Diego/Newark chips:
939 athlon 4000 is 2.4ghz and costs $336
939 athlon fx-55 is 2.6ghz and costs $695
754 athlon 4000 is 2.6ghz and costs $310 (mobil lid is an extra $10)
May 10, 2006 1:59:36 PM

Should do a nice job for the money.
May 10, 2006 2:00:45 PM

I still don't disagree with you, but you're still not getting the point.
939 is NOT cheaper than 754 per ghz.
If you want a cheaper 754 system, you can go with a Sempron and save some cash and still be able to play most any game.
This is a THEORETICAL discussion, upgrading has nothing to do with it.
754 CPU's will be in production AFTER 939's have ended- see anandtech article "754 to outlive 939"
May 10, 2006 2:16:59 PM

That's just the problem, the whole rating system is screwed up. The 3000 754 DOES outperform the 939 3000. The 939 3200 outperforms the 754 3000 (both are 2.0ghz and exactly the same except for the memory controller) by 0-5%, the 939 3500 outperforms the 754 3200 by 0-5% as well. The performance rating for the dual channel memory controller is not accurate. Meanwhile, the sempron rated at 3400 is slower than both.

The reason why an xp can outperform P3 & P4's is because it has a more efficient design. Not only are 754 & 939's the same design, we are talking about the same core and nearly the same stepping.
May 10, 2006 2:21:10 PM

Socket 754 is just bad advice. Period. No debate, no second-guessing, its just wrong to recommend an outdated system on a hardware-themed website.
May 10, 2006 2:30:27 PM

Outdated computer components? You mean ALL computer components. Seems like 939 is going to be outdated in 2 weeks. Which is more outdated: A 939 130nm CPU on a Nforce 4X board, or a 754 90nm CPU on a Nforce4 SLI board? I am a HUGE supporter of DUAL core CPU's. Go dual core, you won't regret it, thus go 939 or AM2. BUT, if you are for some reason going to buy single core system, there is no benefit to 939 or AM2. And as far as an upgrade path is concerned. AM2 WILL NOT support quad core CPU's. Thus, it is not likely to be around very long and will be another transitioning socket. AMD needs to get K8L out the door as soon as possible, and they need to move to HT 3.0 sooner than they think.
May 10, 2006 2:44:55 PM

But the point really is upgrading, if he gets a scoket 754 motherboard and cpu, once again in the future he will have to change motherboards. So what will the diffrence be if he gets a socket 939 motherboard (in which there is much more of a selection from) and pay around the same price for quality. Then get a single core cpu, lets say the 3700+. Then 5 months down the road he decides to go dual core, he wont have to upgrade motherboards or anything else. He just purchases the cpu and doesnt need to bother with anything else. The hassle alone of buying outdated products isnt worth it. Sure socket 754 isnt very far behind the 939 series. But there are options on the 939 series that 754 doesnt have. And socket 754 is pretty much ceased to exsist as far as companys making the product goes. 939 products wont be halted until AM2 is totally dominating and they arent making money off of 939 anymore, which wont be for a while.
May 10, 2006 2:50:25 PM

see above statements about upgrading and its LACK of significance in this thread (not that I don't agree with you, I do). Please read the whole thread before you post.
May 10, 2006 4:57:30 PM

Sorry, but a $722 system doesn't pwn anything, in fact others will pwn you.

Regarding the debate over S754 and S939, the real crux of the matter is do you plan on upgrading the CPU within 2 years? If not then simply go for the cheapest solution which would be a Socket 754 Athlon. However, if you see yourself upgrading to a dual core in 2 years, then go with the S939 Athlon 64.

Keep in mind that AMD will probably increase prices of all S939 CPU when production stops at the end of this year. AMD used this strategy with the Athlon XP. They raised the price of all Athlon XP by a good amount to encourage people to switch to the new S754 Athlon 64 at that time. I think the Athlon XP 3200+ retails for $190 or more even today.

How much will AMD increase prices of the S939 A64, who know? Based on AMD's previous strategy, a cheap S939 Athlon X2 3800+ (or any other S939 Athlon 64) will not exist in the future.

If you want to hedge your bet then go for socket AM2. But you need to wait, and it will cost you more not only for the CPU, but the motherboard and DDR2 RAM. This will ensure that you can upgrade to AMD's next generation CPU.

If you want cheap and you do not plan on upgrading then go for the S754 Athlon 64 3000+. It is faster than the S939 Athlon 64 3000+ if you bother to do any benchmark research.

Within 3 years time you will most likely want to switch to socket AM2 or whatever socket will be out by then.
May 10, 2006 6:03:48 PM

This thread was gone a while ago, i was just talking about the comments on the newer and older techs.
May 11, 2006 2:38:09 AM

Dump all the AMD talk and get a D805.... By far the best perfomance per price of anything out there right now. Sure you have to OC it to get what you want out of it. But hey we are talking about performance here.

How's that for uping the flame :-)
May 12, 2006 6:52:57 AM

If I remember correctly s754 will out last s939 beause AMD is keeping the budget chips on s754 but migrating the mainstream chips to s940 thus making s939 obsolete whilst keeping s754 alive.

That was a side point

The 805 is an option if you know how to overclock and deal with heat and have a big PSU.

SLIing two rubbish cards is just a bad idea.

Personaly at the moment I would get the 805 and decent components rag the nuts off it then when conroe comes out bin that 805.
Just make sure teh componets are conroe compatable and dont skimp on cheap stuff.
!